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[DeafTourette]

All comes down to where someone lives as a start. £1600 is about $2300 CDN and that will get you nowhere in the Toronto area. A half decent one bedroom, one bathroom condo rental will probably be around $1,800 minimum. So that leaves only $500 for everything else. Most low end condos go for $2000 or so which is basically all of the $2300. If you go to Hamilton or Kitchener, it'll be a bit cheaper. Looks like checking HouseSignma you can get places for $1500-1800. Ottawa seems to trend lower than Toronto GTA too.

The thing about a UBI payout is my interpretation of it is it's supposed to be treated as supplemental income, not sole income. Anyone trying to live of it sitting at home is going to have a tough slog. But $2300 equivalent is pretty much the same as CDN unemployment insurance max payout which is I think about $500 or so per week. So at that amount, it would be like someone in Canada living off unemployment payouts per week forever..... (I dont know how good £1600 is over there, but going by your impressions it seems decent).

If you got the report, I wouldnt mind checking it out too. But if your impression was it didn't really improve peoples lives I'm not surprised. My prediction was when Andrew Yang was blabbing about USA $1000/mth UBI the theory was if you give everyone some extra cash, it helps the people at the bottom feel more secure with extra bucks for sake of living life, or taking side classes at night to improve education, or give some safety money so they can now get a job by buying new clothes for interviews etc.... My prediction was that most people in life are self serving and it doesn't really matter if someone is rich or poor getting an extra $12000/yr. A lot of people will just blow it or not give a shit anyway. Or they treat it as perpetual income and there's no point working min wage jobs anymore. Good intentions assuming people act responsibly. But reality is different.

To me, the best way to implement some kind of UBI bonus bucks is to add it to people who work. If you dont work, you get nothing. If you work, then the gov will give you extra money or the company will get subsidized to pay you more. It's like when I was a summer student in the 90s. My shitty min wage job was funded by government summer student incentive perks for companies. Even though I didnt get bonus bucks, the company at least did so they hired me. It's not like the gov said "Hey, lets just give every summer kid $3000 direct no strings attached". Nope. This would take it a step further that if you are working, you get your pay PLUS extra UBI money on top of it. If I didn't work and preferred to stay home watching reruns of Saved by the Bell or Fresh Prince I get zero. And thats how UBI should work.

We... Agreed on something?!? We're actually on the same page!?!?!? *Mind blown*

 

[6502]

I'm sorry... But that much Per month, here or in the UK, is not enough to live off of. From what I've read up on the subject of London rent, it's MORE than £1800 a month ... More like, on average, £2,219... With the cost on average across the UK being £1500 ...

Maybe it cost that much 20 years ago but not in 2024. And maybe for private renters it's lower but I wager there's more corporate renters for flats and such in major cities and towns. Then add on utilities, insurance for cars and such, groceries, etc .. no. That UBI wouldn't have someone living in the lap of luxury.

From what I've read HERE in the US where our social services don't provide that much for a single person, let alone a family, a UBI is NOTHING... It would help with bills and groceries and maybe free up someone to be able to save a bit per month ... But no more than that for a working person/family. Especially if they are on the lower end of the wage spectrum.

UBI doesn't work without a job. That's the whole point of it.

It's not London, which itself is a massive hike in the cost of everything vs rest of uk. Guys working there in many firms get an extra £6k+ a year (London weighting) for the same job by me. In my area you could buy a house for the cost of a 1 bed flat in London.

£1600 a month is £19,200, a full time minimum wage job is around £21,000. But my point isn't whether this is too much or not enough, it is that it isn't being used as a springboard to a better life vs normal state benefits.

The figures I read were for one district authority only. But here is a for an interim report https://autonomy.work/wp-content/up...-for-care-leavers-first-interim-results-1.pdf

I am not sold on quotes as a measure of success but perhaps not providing national statistics says something in itself. Concerns are raised by professionals.

Personally I think it would be far more productive to use this money to subsidise apprenticeships for people, they will be in education and work and potentially have a job at the end of it or at least had that work experience and a better chance of success in future employment.

 

[Blade2.0]

I don't know why it's hard for people to understand that it's not about the wage or how much things cost, but the proportion of wealth in the hands of the few that fucks us over as a country.

If a wage is $2/hr but the burger costs a $1, it's the exact same thing as minimum wage being $20/hr but the burger costs $10. The reason minimum wage should rise is that nowadays people on $7.25/hr can't afford the two burgers anymore. Purchasing power is the only thing that matters. The problem is wealth inequality.

When you were a child many of us wanted to "wish for all the money in the world!" But after you say that to an older person like your mother or father they'd usually tell you why that's a stupid idea, because one person having all the money makes money worthless. So that's literally the reality we've created for ourselves. We've given them all the money in the world and we wonder why there's an issue. 8 people have more money than the bottom 50% but people will sit there and tell you that's not a fucking problem. Lol. No, sorry. Wealth inequality is the biggest issue plaguing our country. And that's why the minimum wage should be raised. Because once when there was a (Numbers are just made up) 70/30 split of wealth from the richest to poorest, now there's a 90/10 split. So raise the minimum wage and take us back to 70/30. The rich already have enough. They certainly don't deserve any more.

Edit: TLDR: it's pretty damn simple. If our parents could buy two hamburgers while working an hour of labor. We should be able to also. If we can't something is fucked up and needs to be changed. Because guess what, humans still need the same caloric intake to survive as they did 50 years ago. So why the fuck should the younger generations have to eat less for the same amount of work? The rich can do without, the poor cannot.

 

[Toots]

We need to just go ahead and institute pay caps for corporations, like some other countries have. The CEO should be taxed at 100% for every dollar they're compensated that's more than say... 1000% of their company's lowest paid employee. If the CEO (or other high paid executive) wants to make more money, they need to first raise the wage of everyone working for them.

Unfortunately, this would be an administrative nightmare to enforce. CEO compensation packages include intangible (and thus likely un-taxable) things like company stock, and other perks like travel packages and company vehicles or other services. There's also the "I have a company of one person that owns Walmart". We would kind of have to overhaul the whole system, but I say it's time.

The worst ennemy of mankind is our own greed.
There's enough ressources on earth for the needs of everyone, but not enough for the greed of a few.
Let's build a society that limit what you can take for yourself, and we'll have plenty to share between ourselves.

 

[Mihos]

UBI just sounds like welfare to me.

 

[jason10mm]

UBI just sounds like welfare to me.

That's because it is, plain and simple.

It's a way for politicians to create a class of voters that can easily manipulate bit saying "vote for me and I'll raise the UBU by 5%, my opponent wants to LOWER IT".

The argument is that UBI, just given to everyone, would eliminate a lot of government overhead and beaurocracy. Kinda like the flat tax if you just got rid of the IRS.

And studies show that people on UBI don't suddenly become creatives, because we already know that creatives will create no matter what, even if they toil away at a tedious labor job.

It's just a gift, really. Now if you could specifically tax the work of AI, automation, and robots to pay for it then maybe, but of course there is no good way to do that.

UBI is trying to force a post-scarcity society, but that will have to happen on its own (if it ever will). We have already seen with the covid handouts that it tends to get blown on junk or used as an investment from those who don't need it, then all that extra cash causes massive inflation.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't know why it's hard for people to understand that it's not about the wage or how much things cost, but the proportion of wealth in the hands of the few that fucks us over as a country.

If a wage is $2/hr but the burger costs a $1, it's the exact same thing as minimum wage being $20/hr but the burger costs $10. The reason minimum wage should rise is that nowadays people on $7.25/hr can't afford the two burgers anymore. Purchasing power is the only thing that matters. The problem is wealth inequality.

When you were a child many of us wanted to "wish for all the money in the world!" But after you say that to an older person like your mother or father they'd usually tell you why that's a stupid idea, because one person having all the money makes money worthless. So that's literally the reality we've created for ourselves. We've given them all the money in the world and we wonder why there's an issue. 8 people have more money than the bottom 50% but people will sit there and tell you that's not a fucking problem. Lol. No, sorry. Wealth inequality is the biggest issue plaguing our country. And that's why the minimum wage should be raised. Because once when there was a (Numbers are just made up) 70/30 split of wealth from the richest to poorest, now there's a 90/10 split. So raise the minimum wage and take us back to 70/30. The rich already have enough. They certainly don't deserve any more.

Edit: TLDR: it's pretty damn simple. If our parents could buy two hamburgers while working an hour of labor. We should be able to also. If we can't something is fucked up and needs to be changed. Because guess what, humans still need the same caloric intake to survive as they did 50 years ago. So why the fuck should the younger generations have to eat less for the same amount of work? The rich can do without, the poor cannot.

8 people have more money than the bottom 50%?

Guess what? Joe six pack making $40,000 a year with a net worth of $50,000 probably has more total assets than the bottom 40% too. I made up that number for sake of argument but there have been income/asset links listed in gaf in that past where you type in how much net worth or salary you got and it estimates what percentile of the world you are higher than.

I did it myself. I’m not some giant millionaire with a mansion and Ferrari and I think I was the top like 1.5% of people in the world. So me slogging it every day to work has more than 98.5% of people. I don’t know what my worth is cumulative in terms of how much more money I got compared to the bottom xxx but it’s probably sky high too. Who cares.

To me it’s pretty simple too. Things change over time, and no government or company is going to go balls to the wall changing things. By the time something changes it’ll be outdated soon anyway (like the fight for $15 which looks like nothing now). So best bet to improve finances is to get an education and job that pays well. The jobs are out there. There’s also reasonable places to live with lower costs. But if someone has to force themselves to live in expensive metro cities with jobs that pay meh, that’s on them.

We all know people in life, and also gaf threads in the past where we compare where we live. Some people live in high cost metro areas. Then some people people live in smaller cheaper places where they got a big house for a fraction of the price. And if that house is cheap, it means condos and townhouses in the area are cheaper. Those people can somehow figure out how to get a job to pay for a cheap house, then anyone can.

High cost/dirt poor topics always skew to big cities as if every person on earth is forced to live in a metro area. Not true at all.

 

[jason10mm]

If a wage is $2/hr but the burger costs a $1, it's the exact same thing as minimum wage being $20/hr but the burger costs $10. The reason minimum wage should rise is that nowadays people on $7.25/hr can't afford the two burgers anymore. Purchasing power is the only thing that matters. The problem is wealth inequality.

We can examine this math. A person can only make 10 burgers an hour. So if they get paid $7.00/hr then each burger has to cover 70 cents for that labor. But if the burgermaker gets $20/hr, then the burger now has to cover $2 just for the labor! This ripples up and down the supply chain of making a burger. The packing plant has to pay more for labor, so the frozen patty, the bun, etc, all labor intensive, costs go up. The shipping cost, another labor intensive job, goes up because now the driver has to be paid more.

So the burger maker, happy that their pay went up ~3x, gets off shift, heads over to the competitiors burger joint next door, and then has to pay 3x (at least!) for his burger. So the end result is EVERYONE pays more, the lower income folks tread water on the sea of inflation just like before, and government interference screws us all.

We don't need to make brain dead labor jobs pay more. We gotta figure out how to make BETTER jobs for those people to move into! This usually comes at the price of international competition with tarrifs, trade embargoes, and protectionist policies. Restore our consumer good industrial base and all those fast food folks could graduate to making shoes, t-shirts, and cell phones! YAY, progress!!! Pair that with a requirement to make non-disposable (or at the very least, highly recyclable/repairable) stuff and we can get back to the pre-plastic economy of durable goods that have a long wear time to justify the high cost of purchase and fair wages to the maker.

 

[Blade2.0]

We can examine this math. A person can only make 10 burgers an hour. So if they get paid $7.00/hr then each burger has to cover 70 cents for that labor. But if the burgermaker gets $20/hr, then the burger now has to cover $2 just for the labor! This ripples up and down the supply chain of making a burger. The packing plant has to pay more for labor, so the frozen patty, the bun, etc, all labor intensive, costs go up. The shipping cost, another labor intensive job, goes up because now the driver has to be paid more.

So the burger maker, happy that their pay went up ~3x, gets off shift, heads over to the competitiors burger joint next door, and then has to pay 3x (at least!) for his burger. So the end result is EVERYONE pays more, the lower income folks tread water on the sea of inflation just like before, and government interference screws us all.

We don't need to make brain dead labor jobs pay more. We gotta figure out how to make BETTER jobs for those people to move into! This usually comes at the price of international competition with tarrifs, trade embargoes, and protectionist policies. Restore our consumer good industrial base and all those fast food folks could graduate to making shoes, t-shirts, and cell phones! YAY, progress!!! Pair that with a requirement to make non-disposable (or at the very least, highly recyclable/repairable) stuff and we can get back to the pre-plastic economy of durable goods that have a long wear time to justify the high cost of purchase and fair wages to the maker.

This would make sense if productivity was stagnant, but it isn't. In fact, people are 75% more productive now, than before. But they get paid less than ever. There's a very wrong problem there. So again, if my.parents could buy X amount of food for an hour of labor, so too, should I. We produce more than they ever did. We waste more than they ever did as well. Your example doesn't hold weight in the real world.

 

[jason10mm]

This would make sense if productivity was stagnant, but it isn't. In fact, people are 75% more productive now, than before. But they get paid less than ever. There's a very wrong problem there. So again, if my.parents could buy X amount of food for an hour of labor, so too, should I. We produce more than they ever did. We waste more than they ever did as well. Your example doesn't hold weight in the real world.

Those bottom rung min wages jobs aren't like that though. No one is 75% more productive working a fry line, working a warehouse gig, or driving a delivery van now than in the 70's. There are fewer jobs around them due to automation, but it's not like the drive through clerk now has a robotic set of arms controlled by their mind so they can also bag food while taking an order. Any automated order system is REPLACING a clerk, not making the ones left more productive in an absolute physical work sense.

Go to a movie theater. Still the same guys with brooms cleaning up, same guys handing out snacks, all that is gone is the ticket seller due to online sales and the camera operator (the highest paid person, likely) since its all digital now. The rest are doing the exact same job at the exact same speed.

 

[Blade2.0]

Those bottom rung min wages jobs aren't like that though. No one is 75% more productive working a fry line, working a warehouse gig, or driving a delivery van now than in the 70's. There are fewer jobs around them due to automation, but it's not like the drive through clerk now has a robotic set of arms controlled by their mind so they can also bag food while taking an order. Any automated order system is REPLACING a clerk, not making the ones left more productive in an absolute physical work sense.

Go to a movie theater. Still the same guys with brooms cleaning up, same guys handing out snacks, all that is gone is the ticket seller due to online sales and the camera operator (the highest paid person, likely) since its all digital now. The rest are doing the exact same job at the exact same speed.

Actually, they are. If there are more people on this earth than before (there are) then being able to service them all means we are all being more productive.

Again, though. Why should the people doing the exact same jobs, in your words, be paid less than the people that did the job before? Why should the people that did that job 20 years ago get better lives than the ones doing them now? please tell me why that should happen.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Again, though. Why should the people doing the exact same jobs, in your words, be paid less than the people that did the job before? Why should the people that did that job 20 years ago get better lives than the ones doing them now? please tell me why that should happen.

Simple.

People are valued and paid based on what someone is willing to pay. Why is a good programmer now paid $200,000 while way back there were probably paid no different than any other office job? Because skills pay. If tech companies were rampant on paying dirt cheap, they and everyone else in the world would be paid minimum age where companies drag down wages to the bone in every sector. They dont. Why is it that my finance job I get paid well, get two bonuses and every place I've lived in has a mortgage less than 6%, when my dad doing a similar job in the 80s got paid way less, no bonus, and my parents mortgage in the 80s when I was in grade school was 15%? Why is a shit PC 40 years ago $4,000, but now you can get one for $1,000 that is probably 10,000x faster?

Things change. Some things get better, some get worse. People got to adapt and get with the times. Dont get me wrong. I know you want a society where even a paperboy can make enough money to afford to buy a car, get a condo and raise a family but that's not modern day. Maybe that was achievable 30 years ago, but not now.

And if government wants to set low hourly minim wages, it shows they dont even care. If they did and wanted people living better so they get off government assistance, they'd boost the min wage to $30/hr in hopes every company can float it, which everyone knows they cant.

 

[jason10mm]

Actually, they are. If there are more people on this earth than before (there are) then being able to service them all means we are all being more productive.

Again, though. Why should the people doing the exact same jobs, in your words, be paid less than the people that did the job before? Why should the people that did that job 20 years ago get better lives than the ones doing them now? please tell me why that should happen.

Huh? More people means more folks digging stuff out of the dirt, it's not a small group making more stuff.

I'm saying that if I can offer $5/hr for a kid to sell popcorn at my theater and a kid applies and does the job to my satisfaction, then why should I be FORCED to pay him $20? If I can't get good help at 5, 7, 9, 15, 24, 35, until I get to $75(!!!) dollars an hour then that's what I gotta do (raising popcorn prices accordingly), close up shop, or more likely, put in a self serve popcorn machine and dispense with a popcorn serving job entirely. So now that kid is either unemployed or working somewhere else for more than $5/hr. If the former, oh well, I guess. If the latter, then good for him.

Prices should float with the market. Employees should TRAIN for the market as well. Don't like working for $5/hr selling popcorn? Then learn an actual skill! The min wage jobs require NO SKILL, just a base level of human body function, some punctuality, and minimal hygiene. Thats the point. They are starter gigs, temp jobs, or retirement bolsters. NOT careers! You can even do 2 of them, sometimes 3 since they tend to be flexible, replaceable, and EASY.

Stop immigration bringing in folks willing to work for less. Let's start the conversation there if you want minimum wage to raise naturally.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Huh? More people means more folks digging stuff out of the dirt, it's not a small group making more stuff.

I'm saying that if I can offer $5/hr for a kid to sell popcorn at my theater and a kid applies and does the job to my satisfaction, then why should I be FORCED to pay him $20? If I can't get good help at 5, 7, 9, 15, 24, 35, until I get to $75(!!!) dollars an hour then that's what I gotta do (raising popcorn prices accordingly), close up shop, or more likely, put in a self serve popcorn machine and dispense with a popcorn serving job entirely. So now that kid is either unemployed or working somewhere else for more than $5/hr. If the former, oh well, I guess. If the latter, then good for him.

Prices should float with the market. Employees should TRAIN for the market as well. Don't like working for $5/hr selling popcorn? Then learn an actual skill! The min wage jobs require NO SKILL, just a base level of human body function, some punctuality, and minimal hygiene. Thats the point. They are starter gigs, temp jobs, or retirement bolsters. NOT careers! You can even do 2 of them, sometimes 3 since they tend to be flexible, replaceable, and EASY.

Stop immigration bringing in folks willing to work for less. Let's start the conversation there if you want minimum wage to raise naturally.

As time goes on, it's a dumbing down of society. Never mind getting paid lousy for a dead end job. In recent years, you got some places discussing or testing out UBI which means getting paid for doing absolutely nothing. And lets face, we all know some people will gladly take that money and sit around. Never mind an individual scraping by, but think of all the two parent households now getting lets say $2000/mth. If the family can float it on one parent working PLUS $2000 whats the point of the second parent even working anymore or thinking about working (if they are currently at home). Might as well not do anything and live off UBI treating that as working income. But the work is now watching TV.

The gov realized a lot of numbnuts will always be on the dole, so might as well just give them the money. Traditionally, you get paid some unemployment money if you lose a job and prove you are seeking employment back. And thats fair. But now, you can just not even bother looking for work and still approved to get paid. Crazy.

 

[Blade2.0]

Huh? More people means more folks digging stuff out of the dirt, it's not a small group making more stuff.

I'm saying that if I can offer $5/hr for a kid to sell popcorn at my theater and a kid applies and does the job to my satisfaction, then why should I be FORCED to pay him $20? If I can't get good help at 5, 7, 9, 15, 24, 35, until I get to $75(!!!) dollars an hour then that's what I gotta do (raising popcorn prices accordingly), close up shop, or more likely, put in a self serve popcorn machine and dispense with a popcorn serving job entirely. So now that kid is either unemployed or working somewhere else for more than $5/hr. If the former, oh well, I guess. If the latter, then good for him.

Prices should float with the market. Employees should TRAIN for the market as well. Don't like working for $5/hr selling popcorn? Then learn an actual skill! The min wage jobs require NO SKILL, just a base level of human body function, some punctuality, and minimal hygiene. Thats the point. They are starter gigs, temp jobs, or retirement bolsters. NOT careers! You can even do 2 of them, sometimes 3 since they tend to be flexible, replaceable, and EASY.

Stop immigration bringing in folks willing to work for less. Let's start the conversation there if you want minimum wage to raise naturally.

Because the person that does your job needs to survive to do your job. Again, why does the person that did that same job deserve a better life because they did the job 20 years ago instead of now. If productivity didn't change on that job, then why did the person that did it before deserve more for it?

 

[jason10mm]

As time goes on, it's a dumbing down of society. Never mind getting paid lousy for a dead end job. In recent years, you got some places discussing or testing out UBI which means getting paid for doing absolutely nothing. And lets face, we all know some people will gladly take that money and sit around. Never mind an individual scraping by, but think of all the two parent households now getting lets say $2000/mth. If the family can float it on one parent working PLUS $2000 whats the point of the second parent even working anymore or thinking about working (if they are currently at home). Might as well not do anything and live off UBI treating that as working income. But the work is now watching TV.

The gov realized a lot of numbnuts will always be on the dole, so might as well just give them the money. Traditionally, you get paid some unemployment money if you lose a job and prove you are seeking employment back. And thats fair. But now, you can just not even bother looking for work and still approved to get paid. Crazy.

Cutting folks out of the workforce benefits the other laborers, assuming immigration doesn't fuck the entire thing. If you had all the women stay home like they used to then I bet almost all blue and white collar jobs would pay significantly more due to massive worker scarcity.

Of course back then, that mythic heyday of high laborer wages and single income families there was 1 car, 1 TV at best, 1 phone, no appliances that didn't start with "Mrs." and everything you owned could fit in a few trunks but that shit was made to last by your neighbors.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Because the person that does your job needs to survive to do your job. Again, why does the person that did that same job deserve a better life because they did the job 20 years ago instead of now. If productivity didn't change on that job, then why did the person that did it before deserve more for it?

You can think of it another way. People back then were overpaid. lol. PCs and automation and supply/demand are now putting the wages into more valuable roles.

All of us have done crappy jobs in high school. I did them too. Total numbnut jobs anyone can do. No wonder prices edge up over time. Companies have to pay more and it's not students doing good work at $6/hr killing the profits. It's the people making $20/hr or whatever they were making sapping the wages. There is no doubt in my mind all us students were doing just as good work (or better) than the vets after a week of training. I was even making more product on the assembly line that vets there for years probably making 3x my wage. How hard can it be? You load up the machine with polyproplene, turn on the machine, let it heat up the plastic and turn the dial to churn out product in 55 second cycles. During break and lunch you turn the machine off. End of day you purge the machine so it doesn't clog and turn it off. Write down your unit count (which the machine tracked) so your boss knows how much product you made. Anyone can learn this job in a week at most. I made more than the vets, simply because I worked longer while the rest sat around reading Toronto Sun papers when the boss wasnt around.

 

[Blade2.0]

You can think of it another way. People back then were overpaid. lol. PCs and automation and supply/demand are now putting the wages into more valuable roles.

All of us have done crappy jobs in high school. I did them too. Total numbnut jobs anyone can do. No wonder prices edge up over time. Companies have to pay more and it's not students doing good work at $6/hr killing the profits. It's the people making $20/hr or whatever they were making sapping the wages. There is no doubt in my mind all us students were doing just as good work (or better) than the vets after a week of training. I was even making more product on the assembly line that vets there for years probably making 3x my wage. How hard can it be? You load up the machine with polyproplene, turn on the machine, let it heat up the plastic and turn the dial to churn out product in 55 second cycles. During break and lunch you turn the machine off. End of day you purge the machine so it doesn't clog and turn it off. Write down your unit count (which the machine tracked) so your boss knows how much product you made. Anyone can learn this job in a week at most. I made more than the vets, simply because I worked longer while the rest sat around reading Toronto Sun papers when the boss wasnt around.

They weren't overpaid. They got fair compensation. Something we don't get nowadays. If you want someone to do a job for you, they should be able to survive on the wage you pay. Otherwise it's slavery with extra steps.

So you should have gotten 20/hr too if you were doing that good of work. Not our fault you settled for less than you deserved.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They weren't overpaid. They got fair compensation. Something we don't get nowadays. If you want someone to do a job for you, they should be able to survive on the wage you pay. Otherwise it's slavery with extra steps.

So you should have gotten 20/hr too if you were doing that good of work. Not our fault you settled for less than you deserved.

Didn't matter to me. I went back to school in September. The real problem would be for the workers because the place folded a year after I left. Place could had stayed in business longer if they worked better helping drive costs/unit down.

 

[jason10mm]

They weren't overpaid. They got fair compensation. Something we don't get nowadays. If you want someone to do a job for you, they should be able to survive on the wage you pay. Otherwise it's slavery with extra steps.

So you should have gotten 20/hr too if you were doing that good of work. Not our fault you settled for less than you deserved.

So many communist buzzwords, I'd say you were paid by the word but we all know that type of productivity based wage scale isn't cool with you guys

 

[Blade2.0]

Didn't matter to me. I went back to school in September. The real problem would be for the workers because the place folded a year after I left. Place could had stayed in business longer if they worked better helping drive costs/unit down.

Also, you guys have seemingly glossed over why we should give so much money to so little people when it is bad for everyone. One, two, eight people having all the money in the world is a terrible fucking idea. so why are we doing it?

 

[Blade2.0]

So many communist buzzwords, I'd say you were paid by the word but we all know that type of productivity based wage scale isn't cool with you guys

And I'm sure you don't know what communism is. But also you can't seem to explain to me why the people before deserved better wages for the same "entry level" jobs as the people that do them now. They were just as unskilled then, as you said. So what exactly earned them a more proportional wage to the people doing them now?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Also, you guys have seemingly glossed over why we should give so much money to so little people when it is bad for everyone. One, two, eight people having all the money in the world is a terrible fucking idea. so why are we doing it?

I didnt gloss over anything.

People earn what they earn and some people and jobs are paid more or less based on what someone will pay them. Also for the uber rich guys, most of their comp isnt even salary as if they are stripping a company of their funds. It's simply stocks whose value goes up or down. The more it goes up, anyone owning the shares goes up too.

The point is people making bad money have nobody to blame (unless it's a company purposely and illegally not paying them). But as long as they satisfy government wage laws, then the company and government are ok with it. And I'm ok with it too.

Perk up the skillset and you can get a better job and pay. And if someone cant, oh well thats life. My first job out of school paid around $40,000 25 years ago. I went through the traditional path of university, getting a business degree, tuition loans that took 10 years to pay off etc... If that paid $40,000 back then so be it. I knew it would pay around that because graduates according to magazines would said ballpark entry level salary of $35,000-40,0000 so I was right there in the range. I remember dabbling through magazines which stated which jobs/sectors paid the most and least. Medical, law and architecture were at the top, business/economist were in the middle and artsy jobs were at the bottom. Anything to do with fast food or shopping mall gigs werent even part of the survey as those jobs are rock bottom and not expected to be seen as career paths. So they werent even part of the tracker.

As I said, governments, laws and business dont change much. So best bet for financial and career freedom is improve yourself to land better jobs. This thread is kind of similar to the $100,000 thread where a bunch of us talk money and finances. You'll notice the people who generally do well have a game plan, better careers and put in more effort.

 

[jason10mm]

And I'm sure you don't know what communism is. But also you can't seem to explain to me why the people before deserved better wages for the same "entry level" jobs as the people that do them now. They were just as unskilled then, as you said. So what exactly earned them a more proportional wage to the people doing them now?

Those jobs were stuck at the same productivity, complexity, and (zero) skill level. Everyone else is benefiting from automation, computer assistance, tech, and most importantly, WORKER SCARCITY. You think I WANT to pay $250/hr for a plumber? Hell no, but when there are so few around, you gotta pay what they say.

This stuff isn't complicated. Working McD now is almost identical to the 50's. The value of that labor has declined because it has NOT grown in productivity and there are now far more folks able to do it.

 

[Blade2.0]

I didnt gloss over anything.

People earn what they earn and some people and jobs are paid more or less based on what someone will pay them. Also for the uber rich guys, most of their comp isnt even salary as if they are stripping a company of their funds. It's simply stocks whose value goes up or down. The more it goes up, anyone owning the shares goes up too.

The point is people making bad money have nobody to blame (unless it's a company purposely and illegally not paying them). But as long as they satisfy government wage laws, then the company and government are ok with it. And I'm ok with it too.

Perk up the skillset and you can get a better job and pay. And if someone cant, oh well thats life. My first job out of school paid around $40,000 25 years ago. I went through the traditional path of university, getting a business degree, tuition loans that took 10 years to pay off etc... If that paid $40,000 back then so be it. I knew it would pay around that because graduates according to magazines would said ballpark entry level salary of $35,000-40,0000 so I was right there in the range. I remember dabbling through magazines which stated which jobs/sectors paid the most and least. Medical, law and architecture were at the top, business/economist were in the middle and artsy jobs were at the bottom. Anything to do with fast food or shopping mall gigs werent even part of the survey as those jobs are rock bottom and not expected to be seen as career paths. So they werent even part of the tracker.

As I said, governments, laws and business dont change much. So best bet for financial and career freedom is improve yourself to land better jobs. This thread is kind of similar to the $100,000 thread where a bunch of us talk money and finances. You'll notice the people who generally do well have a game plan, better careers and put in more effort.

I can't tell if you are serious with the bolded or not. These things are the biggest reason why the world is worse off than it used to be. trickle down economics is the biggest reason we're in the garbage we have now. Since my birth the middle class has only been eroded, so we know, objectively, that the policies that were in place before were better for the average american than the policies we have now. And my argument is simple. If the people could have it that well off while we were a poorer nation and less productive, then we damn well can have it now when we are richer and more productive. It shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

 

[Blade2.0]

Those jobs were stuck at the same productivity, complexity, and (zero) skill level. Everyone else is benefiting from automation, computer assistance, tech, and most importantly, WORKER SCARCITY. You think I WANT to pay $250/hr for a plumber? Hell no, but when there are so few around, you gotta pay what they say.

This stuff isn't complicated. Working McD now is almost identical to the 50's. The value of that labor has declined because it has NOT grown in productivity and there are now far more folks able to do it.

Except people are having staffing problems with these "entry level" jobs also. Everyone screams "no one wants to work anymore". So since they are scarce, wages should go up as well by your own logic.

 

[jason10mm]

I can't tell if you are serious with the bolded or not. These things are the biggest reason why the world is worse off than it used to be. trickle down economics is the biggest reason we're in the garbage we have now. Since my birth the middle class has only been eroded, so we know, objectively, that the policies that were in place before were better for the average american than the policies we have now. And my argument is simple. If the people could have it that well off while we were a poorer nation and less productive, then we damn well can have it now when we are richer and more productive. It shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

Blame globalization then. There are WAYYYYYYYYYYY more "not dirt poor and starving" people now thanks to globalization driving jobs to third world countries to bolster those places up even if it means the first world labor class got the shaft for it. NOTHING to do with wages, EVERYTHING to do with the fact that a company will leave your shores, make shit super cheap somewhere else, and ship the product back to you if you LET THEM.

Buy local if you want to fight this. Enact protectionist legislation for industry. Deny H1 visas and stop all immigration outside of highly skilled or the wealthy.

Just "raise the minimum wage, force those meanie corporations to pay a living wage!" is smoke and mirrors theatrics that will only drive inflation, drive MORE outsourcing and offshoring, and ultimately hurt the very folks it was meant for because now they will have NO JOB instead of a low paying one. But hey, then we can enact UBI and perpetuate the problem, eh?

 

[Blade2.0]

Blame globalization then. There are WAYYYYYYYYYYY more "not dirt poor and starving" people now thanks to globalization driving jobs to third world countries to bolster those places up even if it means the first world labor class got the shaft for it. NOTHING to do with wages, EVERYTHING to do with the fact that a company will leave your shores, make shit super cheap somewhere else, and ship the product back to you if you LET THEM.

Buy local if you want to fight this. Enact protectionist legislation for industry. Deny H1 visas and stop all immigration outside of highly skilled or the wealthy.

Just "raise the minimum wage, force those meanie corporations to pay a living wage!" is smoke and mirrors theatrics that will only drive inflation, drive MORE outsourcing and offshoring, and ultimately hurt the very folks it was meant for because now they will have NO JOB instead of a low paying one. But hey, then we can enact UBI and perpetuate the problem, eh?

How does it drive inflation if inflation was rampant without wage increases? There's a different determining factor than "wages went up". Again, wages went up for the people working those jobs before and it didn't end with runaway inflation. Why exactly did the older generations deserve wage increases across the board but younger generations don't? And if it's "just because" then please also explain why younger generations can't complain about this shit the way they are. Because I sure as shit don't think any one of us deserve worse lives, especially not while holding up the generation that fucked it up.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I can't tell if you are serious with the bolded or not. These things are the biggest reason why the world is worse off than it used to be. trickle down economics is the biggest reason we're in the garbage we have now. Since my birth the middle class has only been eroded, so we know, objectively, that the policies that were in place before were better for the average american than the policies we have now. And my argument is simple. If the people could have it that well off while we were a poorer nation and less productive, then we damn well can have it now when we are richer and more productive. It shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

As for the bolded part you highlighted from me, I'm talking about min wages. By the sounds of it, some US states are rock bottom and havent change min wage in 20 years. They'll do it when they feel like doing it.

And my argument is just as simple. Get some decent skills where pay is good and youre good. In modern day, companies pay people a lot of money based on skills. Bottom jobs they dont care because anyone can do it. The company would rather funnel that money saved to profits or paying the head office staff more. No different than any other era. And things change too. What you want is some kind of society where a paperboy and shopping mall clerk from yesteryear can afford a house, car and raise a family. Not gonna happen in modern day. You're argung about something that wont happen. My reality of jobs, skills and cost of living is a lot more realistic than your dream scenario. Things change and it's up to people to adapt. Just like the influx of PCs starting in the 80s. If someone was an old school pen and paper guy who didnt want to change with the times, he'll get gassed soon as some younger person who grew up with a C64 or DOS will take over soon. All because the guy didnt want to learn how to use a keyboard.

 

[Blade2.0]

As for the bolded part you highlighted from me, I'm talking about min wages. By the sounds of it, some US states are rock bottom and havent change min wage in 20 years. They'll do it when they feel like doing it.

And my argument is just as simple. Get some decent skills where pay is good and youre good. In modern day, companies pay people a lot of money based on skills. Bottom jobs they dont care because anyone can do it. The company would rather funnel that money saved to profits or paying the head office staff more. No different than any other era. And things change too. What you want is some kind of society where a paperboy and shopping mall clerk from yesteryear can afford a house, car and raise a family. Not gonna happen in modern day. You're argung about something that wont happen. My reality of jobs, skills and cost of living is a lot more realistic than your dream scenario. Things change and it's up to people to adapt. Just like the influx of PCs starting in the 80s. If someone was an old school pen and paper guy who didnt want to change with the times, he'll get gassed soon as some younger person who grew up with a C64 or DOS will take over soon. All because the guy didnt want to learn how to use a keyboard.

no, skills don't matter. we've been over this before. there are many highly skilled jobs that pay garbage wages. EMTs, teachers, PhD researchers. Many of them pay well below what their qualifications entail. And again if we know that more money in less hands is bad for the economy, why do we do it. Wages should go up if only to wrestle some of that money away from the monopolistic billionaires.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

no, skills don't matter. we've been over this before. there are many highly skilled jobs that pay garbage wages. EMTs, teachers, PhD researchers. Many of them pay well below what their qualifications entail. And again if we know that more money in less hands is bad for the economy, why do we do it. Wages should go up if only to wrestle some of that money away from the monopolistic billionaires.

Youre arguing in bad faith trying to correlate 100% to something that in life isn't 100%.

When it comes to higher skills and education, a job typically pays more. Doesn't mean all the time. Just like a high school drop with a crazy social media account with millions of viewers can get paid more than anyone on this forum.

All you got to see are general charts about wages compared to education and job and you'll see trend. Youre trying to make it sound like it's all 100% random. Do EMTs get paid bad. Maybe. But doctors, dentists, surgeons dont. heck, even the medical clinic lady doing appointment bookings might make more. Thats life and thats the pay.

You are trying to be judge and jury where every job has a pecking order of pay. Thats entitlement. All I say is get some better education and skills and theres chance you'll get a better job. Supply and demand makes up the rest. Your fght for low end jobbers is a tough fight to win because gov laws support low min wages, they got low skills, and tons of them fight for the same fry cook job from high schoolers to old people needing a job. What youre looking for is pity pay. That doesn't go far in real life.

Opportunities are out there. If EMT, teachers an researcher get paid bad in the US, then get off your ass and move to Canada. Those jobs would pay great. A tenured teacher thats been around in Canada gets a solid pension, tons of holidays and paid about $100,000. A university teachers assistant marking papers (a senior student) gets paid I think $40/hr.

 

[Blade2.0]

Youre arguing in bad faith trying to correlate 100% to something that in life isn't 100%.

When it comes to higher skills and education, a job typically pays more. Doesn't mean all the time. Just like a high school drop with a crazy social media account with millions of viewers can get paid more than anyone on this forum.

All you got to see are general charts about wages compared to education and job and you'll see trend. Youre trying to make it sound like it's all 100% random. Do EMTs get paid bad. Maybe. But doctors, dentists, surgeons dont. heck, even the medical clinic lady doing appointment bookings might make more. Thats life and thats the pay.

You are trying to be judge and jury where every job has a pecking order of pay. Thats entitlement. All I say is get some better education and skills and theres chance you'll get a better job. Supply and demand makes up the rest. Your fght for low end jobbers is a tough fight to win because gov laws support low min wages, they got low skills, and tons of them fight for the same fry cook job from high schoolers to old people needing a job. What youre looking for is pity pay. That doesn't go far in real life.

Opportunities are out there. If EMT, teachers an researcher get paid bad in the US, then get off your ass and move to Canada. Those jobs would pay great. A tenured teacher thats been around in Canada gets a solid pension, tons of holidays and paid about $100,000. A university teachers assistant marking papers (a senior student) gets paid I think $40/hr.

If it isn't all the time, then your "just get some skills" argument is null and void. This isn't a meritocracy. We are a luck based society and therefore we should have systems that mitigate the problems that the unlucky receive.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If it isn't all the time, then your "just get some skills" argument is null and void. This isn't a meritocracy. We are a luck based society and therefore we should have systems that mitigate the problems that the unlucky receive.

You don’t understand context.

If you truly think life isn’t merit and based on luck that’s fine.

But going by any census or survey chart shows on avg that better education and skills gets you better jobs, higher pay and more likelihood of manager jobs which pays even more. And some fields like sci and tech skew high right off the bat.

You can deny all you want. That’s why you are in the position you’re in if you think everyone in the world (including gaffers) have done well due to luck.

 

[DeafTourette]

You don’t understand context.

If you truly think life isn’t merit and based on luck that’s fine.

But going by any census or survey chart shows on avg that better education and skills gets you better jobs, higher pay and more likelihood of manager jobs which pays even more. And some fields like sci and tech skew high right off the bat.

You can deny all you want. That’s why you are in the position you’re in if you think everyone in the world (including gaffers) have done well due to luck.

I agree with B Blade2.0 ... This society is NOT merit based.

Lemme ask you something because you said something earlier that raised my eyebrow...

You said you did it all yourself... No help.

So no one loaned you anything?
No one gave you a tip or contact?
No one put in a good word for you?
No one advocated for you?
No one gave you a chance because they saw something in you OTHER THAN your work habits?


I ask this because so many people say they attained success all by themselves and forgot about all the people who helped them to get to where they are.

So yes, it's very much luck based ... With an asterisk... And not everyone (or most people) have or can get the contacts and connects to get from level A to Level G

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I agree with B Blade2.0 ... This society is NOT merit based.

Lemme ask you something because you said something earlier that raised my eyebrow...

You said you did it all yourself... No help.

So no one loaned you anything?
No one gave you a tip or contact?
No one put in a good word for you?
No one advocated for you?
No one gave you a chance because they saw something in you OTHER THAN your work habits?


I ask this because so many people say they attained success all by themselves and forgot about all the people who helped them to get to where they are.

So yes, it's very much luck based ... With an asterisk... And not everyone (or most people) have or can get the contacts and connects to get from level A to Level G

That’s a bullshit load of questions because no matter what anyone says your going to say “we’ll see! You got help so you got lucky!”

But to answer you, pretty much everything I have now I worked for even finding my own real estate agents, lawyer and buying my own car on my own by myself. Even for something basic like finding my own dentist since I hated the family dentist my parents used. It’s not hard to find your own stuff. Paid all my tuition too. I’m no deadbeat and never have been. The one time I asked my bro for a $1000 loan I didn’t even use it and paid him back $1100 next year.

Since I know you or blade will answer with something, don’t forget. I’m not the only one with a similar situation. So if you want to call all us just lucky people that’s fine. But that won’t help your situation. We aren’t the ones hard up for cash. I’ll let you answer my parents situation. I want to see how brave you are saying anyone in this situation got lucky.

- half of fam tree killed or suicide in war, including all their parents (my grandparents) dead since they were like 20 years old. I was born so much later I can only go by black and white pics of grandparents.
- dirt poor
- no english
- dad worked as waiter during the day and did like 8 years of night class to get a degree. My older siblings said they didn’t see dad much at night since he was always working or evening class. Later in life got a masters
- scrimped and saved. No car till 36 years old
- mom had low level pt admin job. Dad worked all the way up including various degrees and patents used in the space shuttle

If they can make it, anyone can. Not everyone is born being bill gates son or daughter. You can do well in life with a bad starting hand.

It doesn’t even make sense because any immigrant in a bad situation should not be able to beat locals who have more, know more people, know the city more and as a leg up already knows English. But it shows people can do better if they put effort into it.

 

[Blade2.0]

You don’t understand context.

If you truly think life isn’t merit and based on luck that’s fine.

But going by any census or survey chart shows on avg that better education and skills gets you better jobs, higher pay and more likelihood of manager jobs which pays even more. And some fields like sci and tech skew high right off the bat.

You can deny all you want. That’s why you are in the position you’re in if you think everyone in the world (including gaffers) have done well due to luck.

Is success in America tied to your ZIP code? An economist says 'yes'

Is achieving the American dream tied to where you grew up? An economist says "yes" and that even then, some kids will have it easier than others.

www.wcvb.com

The biggest deciding factor of your life is where your zip code was when you were born. So yes, it is luck. Hard work can only get you so far. The rest is completely up to how lucky you were to get where you are. Met the right people. Born in the right country, etc. you really think you'd be in the exact same position you're in now, everything equal about your personality, but you were born in Africa to a poor family. If you really think so then you're delusional.

 

[Blade2.0]

That’s a bullshit load of questions because no matter what anyone says your going to say “we’ll see! You got help so you got lucky!”

But to answer you, pretty much everything I have now I worked for even finding my own real estate agents, lawyer and buying my own car on my own by myself. Even for something basic like finding my own dentist since I hated the family dentist my parents used. It’s not hard to find your own stuff. Paid all my tuition too. I’m no deadbeat and never have been. The one time I asked my bro for a $1000 loan I didn’t even use it and paid him back $1100 next year.

Since I know you or blade will answer with something, don’t forget. I’m not the only one with a similar situation. So if you want to call all us just lucky people that’s fine. But that won’t help your situation. We aren’t the ones hard up for cash. I’ll let you answer my parents situation. I want to see how brave you are saying anyone in this situation got lucky.

- half of fam tree killed or suicide in war, including all their parents (my grandparents) dead since they were like 20 years old. I was born so much later I can only go by black and white pics of grandparents.
- dirt poor
- no english
- dad worked as waiter during the day and did like 8 years of night class to get a degree. My older siblings said they didn’t see dad much at night since he was always working or evening class. Later in life got a masters
- scrimped and saved. No car till 36 years old
- mom had low level pt admin job. Dad worked all the way up including various degrees and patents used in the space shuttle

If they can make it, anyone can. Not everyone is born being bill gates son or daughter. You can do well in life with a bad starting hand.

It doesn’t even make sense because any immigrant in a bad situation should not be able to beat locals who have more, know more people, know the city more and as a leg up already knows English. But it shows people can do better if they put effort into it.

You weren't born with a mental disability. Congratulations, lucky as fuck. Well one of my sisters wasn't so lucky as us.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Is success in America tied to your ZIP code? An economist says 'yes'

Is achieving the American dream tied to where you grew up? An economist says "yes" and that even then, some kids will have it easier than others.

www.wcvb.com

The biggest deciding factor of your life is where your zip code was when you were born. So yes, it is luck. Hard work can only get you so far. The rest is completely up to how lucky you were to get where you are. Met the right people. Born in the right country, etc. you really think you'd be in the exact same position you're in now, everything equal about your personality, but you were born in Africa to a poor family. If you really think so then you're delusional.

You should read that $100k thread and what people have written how to grow money.

 

[Blade2.0]

You should read that $100k thread and what people have written how to grow money.

Sure buddy. You should answer my question. If you were born to a poor family in Africa would you be in your same position?

 

[Yonyx]

It's the first time I dive into this thread and I'm reading the first pages amazed. I see a lot of people who don't think it's right for poorly paid jobs to be paid a little better. WTF. At the same time, I don't see those criticisms towards those who earn millions a year, whether it's by being able to invest/speculate thanks to inheriting a fortune or those who simply multiply their fortunes without much effort with a capital accumulation system that is unfair and essentially broken.

Are all those who complain about the salaries of the poor and write in this thread rich? Because then I would understand it. If those who see it as wrong for a colossal corporation to pay their employees a little more (while we don't criticize the indecent salaries of the top executives of large corporations) are not rich, then this is really sad. We must avoid the struggle of the second-to-last against the last; we cannot fall into that trap set by those above.

 

[Blade2.0]

StreetsofBeige thinks this woman is the same as all of us. Yep, luck had nothing to do with it. She totally earned her billions. Lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sure buddy. You should answer my question. If you were born to a poor family in Africa would you be in your same position?

You cycling questions will never improve your situation.

I can tell by your posts youre stubborn and not much of a learner. But I give you credit googling as many excuses you can find. Hey, all many of us gaf can do is post our experiences and tips how to improve your life and money. Given your situation, it's probably better if you learned a few tips.

But I'll pass down some advice dad would give us at the dinner table about school and jobs.... "pull up your socks".

 

[Blade2.0]

You cycling questions will never improve your situation.

I can tell by your posts youre stubborn and not much of a learner. But I give you credit googling as many excuses you can find. Hey, all many of us gaf can do is post our experiences and tips how to improve your life and money. Given your situation, it's probably better if you learned a few tips.

But I'll pass down some advice dad would give us at the dinner table about school and jobs.... "pull up your socks".

And I can tell you can't answer a simple question and have to deflect because that answer would prove my point. Would you be where you are now? Just answer the damn question. Because hard work is the only thing that matters to you. So please just answer if you'd be in the same position you're in now if your life had been different when growing up.

This system absolutely ate up and spat your dad out. 8 years of his life gone. Barely any time with his children. Having to grind, grind, grind for any semblance of a good life. But you'll tell me this economic system is amazing. You can't even tell when your own life got fucked over by it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And I can tell you can't answer a simple question and have to deflect because that answer would prove my point. Would you be where you are now? Just answer the damn question. Because hard work is the only thing that matters to you. So please just answer if you'd be in the same position you're in now if your life had been different when growing up.

This system absolutely ate up and spat your dad out. 8 years of his life gone. Barely any time with his children. Having to grind, grind, grind for any semblance of a good life. But you'll tell me this economic system is amazing. You can't even tell when your own life got fucked over by it.

That's the immigrant way. You work hard and great things happen. It doesnt matter if my dad was a waiter or someone else's dad was a bricklayer and mom made side money sewing clothes from anyone in the neighbourhood who had ripped pants. You worked hard because not everyone is dealt pocket aces in life. Why should anyone with no skills, education or even know english be paid great? But he worked his ass off and did great for the fam.

Put it this way Blade. My mom and dad who had nothing, their parents dead, poor and didnt even know english did better than you.

 

[Blade2.0]

That's the immigrant way. You work hard and great things happen. It doesnt matter if my dad was a waiter or someone else's dad was a bricklayer and mom made side money sewing clothes from anyone in the neighbourhood who had ripped pants. You worked hard because not everyone is dealt pocket aces in life. Why should anyone with no skills, education or even know english be paid great? But he worked his ass off and did great for the fam.

Put it this way Blade. My mom and dad who had nothing, their parents dead, poor and didnt even know english did better than you.

So you admit it isn't a meritocracy. Thanks for doing so.

Edit: And for your second point. That's why I advocate for better wages. People have been absolutely fucked by our system and the rich.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So you admit it isn't a meritocracy. Thanks for doing so.

Edit: And for your second point. That's why I advocate for better wages. People have been absolutely fucked by our system and the rich.

And the number of people dealt pocket aces is hardly any. The vast majority of people are average joes or even a bit lower. It doesn't mean they are destined to be that forever.

But hey, I will say again I give you credit for trying to post as many reasons why anyone putting in effort leads to better outcomes is really just based on luck or zip codes.

Lets face it my good man. Based on your posts youre lazy. And let me remind you one more time before I head to bed...... my parents who were dirt poor, no english, parents all dead by the time they immigrated, and my mom at the time hadnt even technically graduated high school yet because at the time to get a high school diploma in Canada she had to retake grade 13 locally to qualify for it, since they didn't waive what she had as good enough. And they did better than you.

Dont blame the system. Opportunities are out there. People just have to put in some effort to get some rewards.

 

[Blade2.0]

And the number of people dealt pocket aces is hardly any. The vast majority of people are average joes or even a bit lower. It doesn't mean they are destined to be that forever.

But hey, I will say again I give you credit for trying to post as many reasons why anyone putting in effort leads to better outcomes is really just based on luck or zip codes.

Lets face it my good man. Based on your posts youre lazy. And let me remind you one more time before I head to bed...... my parents who were dirt poor, no english, parents all dead by the time they immigrated, and my mom at the time hadnt even technically graduated high school yet because at the time to get a high school diploma in Canada she had to retake grade 13 locally to qualify for it, since they didn't waive what she had as good enough. And they did better than you.

Dont blame the system. Opportunities are out there. People just have to put in some effort to get some rewards.

I can blame what's at fault all I want to, and it is our shit system that's at fault.

 

[DeafTourette]

That’s a bullshit load of questions because no matter what anyone says your going to say “we’ll see! You got help so you got lucky!”

But to answer you, pretty much everything I have now I worked for even finding my own real estate agents, lawyer and buying my own car on my own by myself. Even for something basic like finding my own dentist since I hated the family dentist my parents used. It’s not hard to find your own stuff. Paid all my tuition too. I’m no deadbeat and never have been. The one time I asked my bro for a $1000 loan I didn’t even use it and paid him back $1100 next year.

Since I know you or blade will answer with something, don’t forget. I’m not the only one with a similar situation. So if you want to call all us just lucky people that’s fine. But that won’t help your situation. We aren’t the ones hard up for cash. I’ll let you answer my parents situation. I want to see how brave you are saying anyone in this situation got lucky.

- half of fam tree killed or suicide in war, including all their parents (my grandparents) dead since they were like 20 years old. I was born so much later I can only go by black and white pics of grandparents.
- dirt poor
- no english
- dad worked as waiter during the day and did like 8 years of night class to get a degree. My older siblings said they didn’t see dad much at night since he was always working or evening class. Later in life got a masters
- scrimped and saved. No car till 36 years old
- mom had low level pt admin job. Dad worked all the way up including various degrees and patents used in the space shuttle

If they can make it, anyone can. Not everyone is born being bill gates son or daughter. You can do well in life with a bad starting hand.

It doesn’t even make sense because any immigrant in a bad situation should not be able to beat locals who have more, know more people, know the city more and as a leg up already knows English. But it shows people can do better if they put effort into it.

Connects and contacts ... That was my asterisk

I was a deputy editor for a magazine for 6 years and then had a breakdown when it went under ... I'm still building my life back up because of it.

How did I get that job? Contacts and connects. If I hadn't known people, I wouldn't have gotten that job. And I was daggone good at it! I wasn't rich but I made do with what I had. Our magazine struggled financially... Bad management... But anyway...

I work hard and I'm grateful for the people who HAVE and ARE helping me. Building my life back up over these years has been hard but I wouldn't have gotten this far without them. Got downsized at my blue collar job and rebuilding 3.0 is a work in progress.

You have no idea how much effort I've put into getting better and rebuilding... And it's been a tougher fight than it was before. Most of my connections aren't here anymore... Or they've moved on to other things.

I still feel like someone DID help you but you don't recognize that they did. It doesn't matter what I think anyway. I don't know you... Not really... But your attitude about people who work the jobs you look down upon says volumes.

 

[Blade2.0]

Connects and contacts ... That was my asterisk

I was a deputy editor for a magazine for 6 years and then had a breakdown when it went under ... I'm still building my life back up because of it.

How did I get that job? Contacts and connects. If I hadn't known people, I wouldn't have gotten that job. And I was daggone good at it! I wasn't rich but I made do with what I had. Our magazine struggled financially... Bad management... But anyway...

I work hard and I'm grateful for the people who HAVE and ARE helping me. Building my life back up over these years has been hard but I wouldn't have gotten this far without them. Got downsized at my blue collar job and rebuilding 3.0 is a work in progress.

You have no idea how much effort I've put into getting better and rebuilding... And it's been a tougher fight than it was before. Most of my connections aren't here anymore... Or they've moved on to other things.

I still feel like someone DID help you but you don't recognize that they did. It doesn't matter what I think anyway. I don't know you... Not really... But your attitude about people who work the jobs you look down upon says volumes.

He can't even see how his father could have had a better life if he didn't have to grind himself away into dust just to make a meager living under our economic system. Dude is a lost cause. He thinks It's fine that people have to fuck over their whole lives for the system. I think your father should have been able to see his kids more. We aren't the same.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Connects and contacts ... That was my asterisk

I was a deputy editor for a magazine for 6 years and then had a breakdown when it went under ... I'm still building my life back up because of it.

How did I get that job? Contacts and connects. If I hadn't known people, I wouldn't have gotten that job. And I was daggone good at it! I wasn't rich but I made do with what I had. Our magazine struggled financially... Bad management... But anyway...

I work hard and I'm grateful for the people who HAVE and ARE helping me. Building my life back up over these years has been hard but I wouldn't have gotten this far without them. Got downsized at my blue collar job and rebuilding 3.0 is a work in progress.

You have no idea how much effort I've put into getting better and rebuilding... And it's been a tougher fight than it was before. Most of my connections aren't here anymore... Or they've moved on to other things.

I still feel like someone DID help you but you don't recognize that they did. It doesn't matter what I think anyway. I don't know you... Not really... But your attitude about people who work the jobs you look down upon says volumes.

Going by Blade, you did jack shit because it's all about luck and what zip code you lived in. So dont pat yourself on the back too much regarding how much effort you put into your job.

He can't even see how his father could have had a better life if he didn't have to grind himself away into dust just to make a meager living under our economic system. Dude is a lost cause. He thinks It's fine that people have to fuck over their whole lives for the system. I think your father should have been able to see his kids more. We aren't the same.

Hard work (especially for new immigrants who have nothing and dont even know the local language) requires more effort to get through life. That's life. And thats not a situation solely on me, but for millions of other immigrants who endured the same around the world. And my parents did a great job to rise up and prosper. And dont insult my dad on what he should or should not have done, just as you wouldnt want me to rag on your demented sister.