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[Durante]

Only strengthens publishers resolve to focus more on consoles then. Enjoy waiting for GTA 6 one year later than everyone else.

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

 

[Atraveller]

This 3DM group sure are claiming a lot recently and I've never heard of them prior to this.

They have been cracking games and distributing cracked games for a long time.

 

[Portugeezer]

GTA always comes later on PC anyway.

 

[FairXchange]

Denuvo never claimed it can't be cracked, they just make it harder to crack on the next game they are hired to protect.

 

[Chobel]

Wait a sec, so Denuvo affects game performance?

 

[Durante]

Wait a sec, so Denuvo affects game performance?

No, that has not been conclusively demonstrated (at least beyond the marginal impact of any anti-tamper solution).

That is of course unless you measure "performance" in objectives other than "execution speed", such as user control or moddability.

 

[demosthenes]

Im in the same boat I don't want any DRM on games.

Well this news, if true, will only bring on more restrictive DRM.

I don't like this news, I don't like pirates, this makes me sad.

 

[SoulUnison]

So does this prove that using DENUVO actually causes games to have their hardware requirements jacked up a bit?
It's one thing to protect your games from piracy, but it's another to do it at the expense of performance for your legitimate customers.

 

[Maintenance]

Good. Fuck DRM.

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

Preach.

 

[Big_Al]

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

Plus seeing the bastards that came up with that shitpile SecuRom having their new DRM cracked, if it's true, can only make me smile tbh.

 

[akira28]

sounds like the gimmick has been exposed, so they can hide whatever traces...I wonder if the cat is out of the bag or not.

 

[finley83]

DRM is horrible as a consumer. I don't want to have to worry about being arbitrarily locked out of my product in 5 years because of some authentication server going down, or have my save games wiped out when the DRM client fudges an update.

Literally no one gains from this shit. I had to scour the internet to find a way to get Fuel running on Windows 10 because Securom refused to authenticate, and then once that was fixed the additional Games for Windows Live layer fucked up as well. I don't see Just Cause 3 selling through the roof because of millions of new sales from former pirates but I did decide not to buy it purely because I don't trust the DRM its using. Grrbgghhhh

/rant

 

[CyberPunked]

and they said it was uncrackable. lol

Nothing is uncrackable. It just takes time.

 

[Genuflections]

true ownership

I thought every game on Steam is sold via licensing agreements? Unless you're talking about small indies or gog, I guess.

 

[big_z]

I heard they were close to a work around a few days ago but needed further testing. apparently it requires installing and running some sort of third party software.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There are an awful lot of publishers that no longer exist, and licensing agreements that basically eliminate the possibility of seeing games re-released. And why should I have to rebuy the games down the road? I bought it. That should be enough.

No, they allowed you to purchase a user license, to purchase the right to play the game under terms dictated by the publishers who sold you said license. It is THEIR software, they can do what they want with it, within the boundaries of the End User License Agreement or EULA.
Also EULA changes might be automatically and implicitly accepted by virtue of you booting the game and playing it (without reading those pesky little pop ups that the game tried to annoyingly force upon you causing you to scroll and scroll and dismiss them).

Does it piss you off? That is the digital economy, take it into account when you vote next too .

 

[MUnited83]

No, they allowed you to purchase a user license, to purchase the right to play the game under terms dictated by the publishers who sold you said license. It is THEIR software, they can do what they want with it, within the boundaries of the End User License Agreement or EULA.
Also EULA changes might be automatically and implicitly accepted by virtue of you booting the game and playing it (without reading those pesky little pop ups that the game tried to annoyingly force upon you causing you to scroll and scroll and dismiss them).

Does it piss you off? That is the digital economy, take it into account when you vote next too .

Good thing those EULAs mean jackshit legally ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Basileus777]

No, they allowed you to purchase a user license, to purchase the right to play the game under terms dictated by the publishers who sold you said license. It is THEIR software, they can do what they want with it, within the boundaries of the End User License Agreement or EULA.
Also EULA changes might be automatically and implicitly accepted by virtue of you booting the game and playing it (without reading those pesky little pop ups that the game tried to annoyingly force upon you causing you to scroll and scroll and dismiss them).

Does it piss you off? That is the digital economy, take it into account when you vote next too .

The legal authority of EULAs can be pretty questionable, especially when you're looking at products sold worldwide.

 

[Silent Chief]

Think about it - even without DENUVO (VMProtect) many modern games require powerful processors and faster memory, the presence of this kind of protection just makes it worse! The problem arises when code is run inside a virtual machine - vitualized primitive code runs much slower that it would if it ran in it's non-virtualized form. Even if you have the most powerful i7 - even then it can't physically cope with rapidly processing a virtual machine, this new level of abstraction, and by having a huge cache and clock speed processor won't help either. If, for example, one assembly instruction takes one clock cycle, then its execution under the virtual machine number of cycles increases by several million (yes, with an 'm'). And then there is an additional penalty in this whole operation, which is aggravated by the plaform itself (x64/64-bit):

That's mostly bullshit. 1 millisecond times one million is over 16 secs.

I write tools that manipulates binaries for debugging purposes. The overhead of relocating something is one or two extra jump on each jump. Maybe 3 if for some reasons you're writing it with a compiler instead of assembly language.

The most overhead you can have is taking a fault, going through the OS exception handling, some system library, your own exception code, and then 2 more context switches to return. That's probably in the order of a thousand opcodes and none of those take a thousand cpu cycles. And there's no way you would do that for every instruction.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

It's sad because of piracy, but kinda good when we think about long-term games preservation.

This argument makes no sense. "Long-term games preservation"? In 10-15 years this method will be totally ineffective and easily defeatable. So why do they have to crack it now, when the game comes out? This is only about piracy.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Pirates win!!

Spoiler

ninjas lose...

Well, it lasted for sometime and I'm sure certain games benefited from it. Hopefully this won't affects PC games sales too much.

 

[fester]

Great. So now companies are going to try even harder to make games uncrackable, resulting in more and more DRM for the general end user.

It's a never ending vicious circle.

No one is forcing a company to continue down this path. They could, like many other companies, choose to forego the pointless DRM and invest that time/resources/money back into the actual product.

 

[NeonBlack]

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

True ownership? Aren't most games stuck under a client while on console you can get a physical disc to use at anytime? Just trying to understand.

 

[finley83]

True ownership? Aren't most games stuck under a client while on console you can get a physical disc to use at anytime? Just trying to understand.

GOG is entirely DRM free. Witcher 3 was available there fron day 1.

Some Humble Store purchase give a DRM free copy as well.

 

[R_thanatos]

No, they allowed you to purchase a user license, to purchase the right to play the game under terms dictated by the publishers who sold you said license. It is THEIR software, they can do what they want with it, within the boundaries of the End User License Agreement or EULA.
Also EULA changes might be automatically and implicitly accepted by virtue of you booting the game and playing it (without reading those pesky little pop ups that the game tried to annoyingly force upon you causing you to scroll and scroll and dismiss them).

Does it piss you off? That is the digital economy, take it into account when you vote next too .

Can i vote with my wallet and support only release with no intrusive drm options ?

Because that's what i'm doing.

And lol @EULA , does this matter really ? i was sure it didn't count for much.

 

[DXLelouch153]

they probably said they couldnt crack it to make Denuvo lower their guard

 

[Rebel Leader]

they probably said they couldnt crack it to make Denuvo lower their guard

 

[Wowfunhappy]

DRM is horrible as a consumer. I don't want to have to worry about being arbitrarily locked out of my product in 5 years because of some authentication server going down, or have my save games wiped out when the DRM client fudges an update.

Literally no one gains from this shit. I had to scour the internet to find a way to get Fuel running on Windows 10 because Securom refused to authenticate, and then once that was fixed the additional Games for Windows Live layer fucked up as well. I don't see Just Cause 3 selling through the roof because of millions of new sales from former pirates but I did decide not to buy it purely because I don't trust the DRM its using. Grrbgghhhh

/rant

So I take it you don't buy anything from Steam then?

 

[FunkyMunkey]

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

careful man this is a spotlight for the vehemently anti-piracy brigade to come in and start asking why people are pieces of shit who enjoy stealing work (even though disliking drm =/= loving pirates)

 

[UnrealEck]

Only strengthens publishers resolve to focus more on consoles then. Enjoy waiting for GTA 6 one year later than everyone else.

Did GTAV even have Denuvo?
I also think you meant to say "enjoy waiting for the best version of GTA 6".

 

[gblues]

In cryptography, you typically have Alice and Bob trying to communicate so Charlie can't read the message. The fundamental problem with DRM is that Bob and Charlie are the same person.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I think the majority of PC gamers couldn't care less about Denuvo. What they will care about, is, if publishers will release less PC ports in the future.

You know what? I'd rather that PC gaming stays PC gaming -- with all its wondrous user control, true ownership, wealth of customization options, and vast modding potential -- rather than turn into console gaming on faster HW.

Even if it means waiting a bit longer for some "AAA" slogs.

Right, gotta love the stance some brave publishers take on DRM. Because it allows users to fix their horrible releases, riddled with bugs and mistakes. That is so pro-consumer! /s

 

[FLEABttn]

Good thing those EULAs mean jackshit legally ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

EULAs can and have been upheld in court. Stating they don't mean jackshit legally is highly misleading.

 

[Lanrutcon]

and they said it was uncrackable. lol

They said the opposite. Nothing is uncrackable indefinitely.

This 3DM group sure are claiming a lot recently and I've never heard of them prior to this.

Took me 3 seconds to check a torrent site and see their name plastered all over game releases going back ages.

 

[tuxfool]

IRight, gotta love the stance some brave publishers take on DRM. Because it allows users to fix their horrible releases, riddled with bugs and mistakes. That is so pro-consumer! /s

This is the most short sighted view of modding that I have ever seen.

 

[Blastoise]

Would not be surprised if 3DM is backed by the Chinese government. All the cracks they make help support their bot network.

 

[Gormenghast]

I assume Denuvo will be stepping up protection in upcoming games in response. All most publishers really need is to ensure that their game remains difficult or inconvenient to pirate for about 6 months after launch.

Soon enough you'll need a dedicated CPU just to run copy protection code.

Enjoy 5 FPS.

 

[Gormenghast]

No, that has not been conclusively demonstrated (at least beyond the marginal impact of any anti-tamper solution).

Nor it has been proven wrong.

That's the point. No one should prove the suspicion correct. It's THEM needing to prove US that their software isn't hampering our experience. It's the very minimum they should do.

 

[OverturePT]

Right, gotta love the stance some brave publishers take on DRM. Because it allows users to fix their horrible releases, riddled with bugs and mistakes. That is so pro-consumer! /s

 

[tallbroski]

lol at everyone saying this sad?

You guys must love drm, I have a feeling that these software intended to stop piracy will end up causing performance issues for everyone.

 

[Duxxy3]

Good.

Fuck Denuvo.

 

[mieumieu]

They have been cracking games and distributing cracked games for a long time.

for profit too. they argued with ubisoft shanghai a while ago too, in which they claimed there would not be a console/pc game market in china if they did not exist. they are arseholes through and through.

3dm is not doing it for perservation or ease of modding. they are purely doing it for profit. i think people need tk understand the context they operate within to really have a meaningful discussion.

 

[Hexa]

Nothing is uncrackable. It just takes time.

This is not entirely true. It is possible to make a program that's guaranteed to be computationally secure against being 'cracked'. It's just a MAJOR performance hit and takes a REALLY long time right now. There has been a lot of progress on it in the last couple of years though, and my crypto teacher thinks it has a lot of potential.

http://www.wired.com/2015/09/new-design-cryptographys-black-box/

 

[Corpekata]

Loving all the piracy experts that have popped up in the past few months. Yeah, this is totally going to affect all the PC ports, despite that like 9/10 of the games that have the DRM are games that had plenty of PC presence before it was around.

 

[Renekton]

Hopefully Denuvo ups the ante again.

Piracy is bad.

 

[GreenMonkey]

So I take it you don't buy anything from Steam then?

I don't know about the guy you quoted, but I don't. Nothing over $10 or so. Maybe $15. With DRM it's just a long-term rental IMO. Never know when it will stop working. And these are rare - I have like about 20 Steam games and a handful of those were Humble Bundle.

I can pop in a DOS-era game and play it on a DOS-era machine (or DOSbox these days) until the end of time.

Can't say that about DRM'd stuff. Gone when the license is gone, gone when the online DRM stops working, or gone when the publisher decides to pull it from your library (look at Afro Samurai 2 that just happened). Or gone when the O.S. / game isn't supported by the DRM any more. Or, or, or.

I buy most stuff on console these days instead. Maybe the DLC/patches will be gone in a few years, but at least the bloody thing will work. Or at least, I can buy hardware and the original game at least.

 

[10k]

Waiting a few months after release on PC usually nets you a good sale. Is it really necessary to crack these games? If you weren't gonna buy it anyways then fuck it. Use your talents to work for a software developer, there's always a demand for those.

 

[ChaoticBlue]

The chinese are very good at cracking anything. they hack companies in america and steal trade secrets all the time.

Denuvo is really nothing for the chinese.

 

[joms5]

I thought every game on Steam is sold via licensing agreements? Unless you're talking about small indies or gog, I guess.

True ownership only exists when you own a copy that you can hold in your hand. Or when the executable is on your hard drive (but even in that case what happens if you lose that file and it's no longer legally available?)

I've said this for years now. If Steam ever goes away, and don't say it can't happen. But if they did, it seems to me the only way they would go away is if they went under due to financial reasons. If that was the case, if anyone thinks they would make those games available for you to download, your kidding yourself.

If a company is in dire straits financially, they have so many more things to worry about than their customers. The last thing they would do is pay for the hundreds or thousands of terabytes of bandwidth they would need to allow their users to download their libraries.

This is where piracy or games preservation is of the utmost importance.

 

[Real_Madrid]

careful man this is a spotlight for the vehemently anti-piracy brigade to come in and start asking why people are pieces of shit who enjoy stealing work (even though disliking drm =/= loving pirates)

You cannot see that without the piracy.