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[magnetic]

So the generally accepted "morally right" stance is that when you bought the game, it's fine to emulate it, right?

Because those screens make me unreasonably excited. Monster Hunter in HD and with a 360 controller must be a dream. I assume it's one of these games that has a ton of detail that gets lost when it's being pumped out to 400x240.

It's amazing how clean and sharp 3D Land looks! Like it's been meant to be played like that all along. Boom, instant HD remake!

It's almost like the opposite of the problem emulators sometimes have, with not running on original hardware making it the lesser version, but with those type of low res polygonal games, it's like getting glasses for the first time.

 

[lostsupper]

It's almost like the opposite of the problem emulators sometimes have, with not running on original hardware making it the lesser version....

Say what now?

 

[magnetic]

Say what now?

I probably worded that badly -

Old pixel based games were never meant to be played on non-CRT screens, and some people argue that, say, playing arcade games on a laptop isn't the proper way to display these graphics. (I'm not really a purist in that way, though).

I vaguely remember hearing on a podcast that Yars Revenge on Atari displays effects that only work on CRT TVs and just look odd on modern screens, just as an example.

On the other hand, the graphics of these 3DS games show new levels of detail that are simply missing from the original hardware, thus unlocking their previously hidden graphic potential.

So what I meant to say was that emulators for most systems try to imitate the original experience - even adding scanlines or screen curvature effects, whereas in this case most of the fascination comes from going BEYOND the restrictions of the original hardware.

Obviously that's a very fundamental difference of emulating pixel graphics versus polygonal games.

 

[lostsupper]

The CRT purists are lunatics. Straight up.

 

[Triforce141]

Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire look really good

 

[Platy]

The CRT purists are lunatics. Straight up.

Maybe they just love lightgun games and hate the wii =P

 

[Vuze]

So the generally accepted "morally right" stance is that when you bought the game, it's fine to emulate it, right?

Because those screens make me unreasonably excited. Monster Hunter in HD and with a 360 controller must be a dream. I assume it's one of these games that has a ton of detail that gets lost when it's being pumped out to 400x240.

It's amazing how clean and sharp 3D Land looks! Like it's been meant to be played like that all along. Boom, instant HD remake!

It's almost like the opposite of the problem emulators sometimes have, with not running on original hardware making it the lesser version, but with those type of low res polygonal games, it's like getting glasses for the first time.

ikr?

I was blown away by the amount of detail lost in OoT3D on real hardware the first time I saw it running at HD resolution.

 

[Nerrel]

There's some youtube footage floating around of Majora's Mask 3D running in HD with the new JIT builds. It's just about fullspeed all the time, dropping to 40fps now and then (not sure what that's about since the game is 30), but the quality looks great. Outside of the audio and slowdown, this looks like it's perfectly emulating. If I had to guess, I'd say next spring is when the emulator will probably become practical for casual use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnW72aapZco

I still don't think I'll be able to stand playing MM3D due to the changes it made, even in HD, but it looks damned good. I'd rather try to rip those textures out and try to wedge them into project64, but the thought of being able to map in the 3DS's dedicated gyro aim directly using a Steam controller is boner-inducing. The Steam controller might end up being the ultimate companion for this emulator, since it can do the gyro and touchscreen stuff while still giving you a normal controller.

 

[calc84maniac]

There's some youtube footage floating around of Majora's Mask 3D running in HD with the new JIT builds. It's just about fullspeed all the time, dropping to 40fps now and then (not sure what that's about since the game is 30), but the quality looks great. Outside of the audio and slowdown, this looks like it's perfectly emulating. If I had to guess, I'd say next spring is when the emulator will probably become practical for casual use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnW72aapZco

I still don't think I'll be able to stand playing MM3D due to the changes it made, even in HD, but it looks damned good. I'd rather try to rip those textures out and try to wedge them into project64, but the thought of being able to map in the 3DS's dedicated gyro aim directly using a Steam controller is boner-inducing. The Steam controller might end up being the ultimate companion for this emulator, since it can do the gyro and touchscreen stuff while still giving you a normal controller.

It's definitely way more than textures, you know. It would probably be more effective to patch the 3DS game to revert the Zora swimming, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody does that.

 

[Nerrel]

It's definitely way more than textures, you know.

Of course, but better textures would still go a long way since the geometry is often the same. I imagine a good amount of the 3DS textures would slot right into the 64 version without trouble. The lighting effects and new assets made for the most impressive improvements, though. If fans develop patches for the 3DS version that would be pretty sweet.

 

[TriAceJP]

So the generally accepted "morally right" stance is that when you bought the game, it's fine to emulate it, right?

They are your morals, dude. Do what you want and disregard other people who say otherwise.

My personal view is that I can do whatever I want with the software I own.

 

[PGamer]

The CPU JIT recompiler has been merged into master. Citra should now be seeing a significant performance improvement when using it.

 

[KojiKnight]

The CPU JIT recompiler has been merged into master. Citra should now be seeing a significant performance improvement when using it.

This is really awesome, I'll have to try it later.

A reminder if you own a CFW 3DS using pialect's guide, you can simply hold start (or was it select?) when you boot your system and dump unencrypted .3ds files to play on citra~

There's some youtube footage floating around of Majora's Mask 3D running in HD with the new JIT builds. It's just about fullspeed all the time, dropping to 40fps now and then (not sure what that's about since the game is 30),

The 3DS display is 60hz, games that run at 30fps are still displaying 60 frames, just that those 30 frames are doubled to match the screen's refresh rate (see v-sync). So literally a game running at 40hz on a 60hz display are dropping to 2/3rds full speed (or 20fps in a 30fps game).

 

[Toadthemushroom]

On the other hand, the graphics of these 3DS games show new levels of detail that are simply missing from the original hardware, thus unlocking their previously hidden graphic potential.

So what I meant to say was that emulators for most systems try to imitate the original experience - even adding scanlines or screen curvature effects, whereas in this case most of the fascination comes from going BEYOND the restrictions of the original hardware.

I dunno, it depends on the game really, though I think the resolution that strikes the perfect balance is 800 x 480 for 3DS titles.

Games on individual platforms with obvious hardware limitations are still largely designed to look great at a specific hardware configuration. Stuff like texture resolution, polygon count, effects and so on, are all considered given the hardware and the display output.

Take Xenoblade as an example. On Wii, it's evidently balanced around 480p. You have grass textures that actually look like grass, environments with just enough polygons to seem rich and defined, and billboard grass textures which look anything but when played in SD. Bump that game up to 1080p and you lose a lot of that, instead what you do see is a bunch of flat polygons with textures crudely pasted on top.

Some 3DS games scale up beyond 800 x 480 better than others, The most extreme case of a game that really doesn't look good in high resolutions is Yoshi's New Island. Meanwhile the art direction and asset quality in the two Kirby games ensure they scale up well to higher resolutions, but you can't deny that the overall scene is a bit simple and plain looking compared with what once seemed like a busy and detailed scene in 240p.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I see what you're getting at, Toadthemushroom, but I wouldn't use Xenoblade as an example. I think playing that in 1080p (and 3D if you can do it) is a giant jump over 480p.

From screens I've seen of Citra, the Bravely Default games are some that are a bit disappointing in higher resolution. The backgrounds in that game looked pretty amazing on 3DS, but at higher resolution it becomes clear how much they're like a more advanced version of PS1-era pre-rendered backgrounds, with very simple geometry and now-blurry-looking textures.

 

[jediyoshi]

So what I meant to say was that emulators for most systems try to imitate the original experience - even adding scanlines or screen curvature effects, whereas in this case most of the fascination comes from going BEYOND the restrictions of the original hardware.

hear, hear!

 

[-shadow-]

Bravely Default looks so ridiculously good!

 

[Daedardus]

Are we saying that Xenoblade doesn't look good in HD? Everything looks so sharp, you can tell all the gras apart and the butterflies and blowing leafs are really noticeable. It's a game with good art direction and those always look better in HD.

 

[-shadow-]

Wouldn't just playing the Wii game in Dolphin make more sense? It has better textures and Japanese audio if you want.

 

[diaspora]

Pokemon's in battle models look insane.

 

[Mendrox]

Pokemon's in battle models look insane.

Yep looks insanely good. Almost drawn.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I really want to see how Sun/Moon turns out in this emulator especially since all the trainer classes have higher poly models.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

hear, hear!

That probably looks rubbish when you actually begin to control your character and the game zooms in. I'd take the magnificent 3D effect over HD any day with a lot of 3DS games.

I see what you're getting at, Toadthemushroom, but I wouldn't use Xenoblade as an example. I think playing that in 1080p (and 3D if you can do it) is a giant jump over 480p.

From screens I've seen of Citra, the Bravely Default games are some that are a bit disappointing in higher resolution. The backgrounds in that game looked pretty amazing on 3DS, but at higher resolution it becomes clear how much they're like a more advanced version of PS1-era pre-rendered backgrounds, with very simple geometry and now-blurry-looking textures.

I get where you're coming from too - Xenoblade is an open world game so more resolution would certainly help resolve distant details that were just a jumble of pixels before. But the lack of overall density and detail in the world design is purposefully made for 480p in my eyes (on 3DS it's obviously too low res at 240p), whereas Xenoblade X is definitely designed for HD, with richer environments and a much denser interface.

And yeah, Bravely Default doesn't look great at all in higher res, it's obvious (again) that they've rendered backgrounds at just the right resolution so they look decent when zoomed in at 240p, but no more. Though if there was an NX port they'd of course use higher resolution assets.

 

[PGamer]

New article: Announcing Bleeding Edge Builds

 

[KojiKnight]

New article: Announcing Bleeding Edge Builds

Very nice, gone are the days of random Chinese builds for most users.

 

[jediyoshi]

That probably looks rubbish when you actually begin to control your character and the game zooms in. I'd take the magnificent 3D effect over HD any day with a lot of 3DS games.

If your goalposts are relative to the screen itself and nothing to do with the actual image being displayed on it, I'm still not sure the point you're making in the context of emulation or this game. The concept of there being assets that native resolution don't and can't fully utilize isn't difficult to comprehend and can't be negated by a factor (the screen) unrelated to its nature. Do you not see the irony in speaking hypothetically at examples and having to preface the point at which you think it 'probably' looks like rubbish, instead of just saying it looks like rubbish as is which you're sure of?

 

[Toadthemushroom]

If your goalposts are relative to the screen itself and nothing to do with the actual image being displayed on it, I'm still not sure the point you're making in the context of emulation or this game. The concept of there being assets that native resolution don't and can't fully utilize isn't difficult to comprehend and can't be negated by a factor (the screen) unrelated to its nature. Do you not see the irony in speaking hypothetically at examples and having to preface the point at which you think it 'probably' looks like rubbish, instead of just saying it looks like rubbish as is which you're sure of?

This is a bit off topic. but thanks for pointing that out.

It *will* look rubbish, then, since the assets are drawn in that resolution for the purposes of retaining definition when the game zooms in during movement in 240p. All that definition is lost when rendering at even higher resolutions.

It's also a polygonal model that's mostly designed for 3D viewing.

 

[KojiKnight]

This is a bit off topic. but thanks for pointing that out.

It *will* look rubbish, then, since the assets are drawn in that resolution for the purposes of retaining definition when the game zooms in during movement in 240p. All that definition is lost when rendering at even higher resolutions.

It's also a polygonal model that's mostly designed for 3D viewing.

#1: no,, no definition is lost on zoom in, but none is gained.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

#1: no,, no definition is lost on zoom in, but none is gained.

Actually it is, because you get a bunch of low poly geometry with some low res textures pasted on top, instead of what the scene was designed to look like in 240p.

If you look at Kingdom Hearts 3D and its HD remake you get the same thing. Mickey Mouse's ear looks perfectly round on 3DS at 240p, but in HD it becomes an octagonal shape and a structure of polygons. Sure, the raw asset has the exact same definition but it looks worse in HD because Square Enix was specifically designing it to look *right* at 240p.

 

[Easy_D]

Actually it is, because you get a bunch of low poly geometry with some low res textures pasted on top, instead of what the scene was designed to look like in 240p.

If you look at Kingdom Hearts 3D and its HD remake you get the same thing. Mickey Mouse's ear looks perfectly round on 3DS at 240p, but in HD it becomes an octagonal shape and a structure of polygons. Sure, the raw asset has the exact same definition but it looks worse in HD because Square Enix was specifically designing it to look *right* at 240p.

Nah they just didn't waste polygons so they would fit within the polygon budget of the system, I'm sure you can see his ears aren't perfectly round on the 3DS screen too

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Nah they just didn't waste polygons so they would fit within the polygon budget of the system, I'm sure you can see his ears aren't perfectly round on the 3DS screen too

They appear perfectly round, because there aren't enough pixels to expose the polygonal structure of his ears. And face markings.

Hardware limitations often go hand-in-hand with game design and screen resolution, so not wasting polygons is essentially the same thing as ensuring it still looks great on the actual hardware.

Since lower-poly models will look as highest quality as they could possibly look on a 240p screen. The same models in higher definition output look low quality and less convincing.

 

[Easy_D]

If that looks perfectly round to you, I don't know what to say. As for Bravely Default:

Looks gorgeous. The artstyle helps the textures still look nice even when they're scaled up

 

[NeoBob688]

Where does this emulator stand as far as being able to play, e.g., Zelda Ocarina of Time 3DS at full speed?

My specs: i7 6700k OCed to 4.7 GhZ, Geforce 1070

 

[jediyoshi]

This is a bit off topic. but thanks for pointing that out.

It *will* look rubbish, then, since the assets are drawn in that resolution for the purposes of retaining definition when the game zooms in during movement in 240p. All that definition is lost when rendering at even higher resolutions.

It's also a polygonal model that's mostly designed for 3D viewing.

Again, this has nothing to do with your point because you're ultimately concerned with the screen itself which is a factor that lives separately from rendering or graphical fidelity. At best, all you're saying is that you'd rather everything constantly look like 'rubbish' so you don't get the dissonance of it potentially looking better at some point.

 

[mntorankusu]

Where does this emulator stand as far as being able to play, e.g., Zelda Ocarina of Time 3DS at full speed?

My specs: i7 6700k OCed to 4.7 GhZ, Geforce 1070

You can easily play Ocarina of Time full speed. The sound isn't perfect yet, though.

Ocarina of Time is very light on CPU usage compared to other 3DS games, but your CPU is probably fast enough to run a large number of games at full speed.

 

[Durante]

I think Bravely Default looks really good in Citra, the biggest issue is that it's not really playable beyond a certain point yet.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I think Bravely Default looks really good in Citra, the biggest issue is that it's not really playable beyond a certain point yet.

Yeah, I agree. Battles look superb, as does the world map. It's just a shame the polygonal structures in towns are plastered with low res textures. Wouldn't be surprised if Square Enix releases the first two games as part of some duology at some point.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Again, this has nothing to do with your point because you're ultimately concerned with the screen itself which is a factor that lives separately from rendering or graphical fidelity. At best, all you're saying is that you'd rather everything constantly look like 'rubbish' so you don't get the dissonance of it potentially looking better at some point.

Actually it does, and I'm not saying that. I'm saying that looking at the town, the designers evidently made assets to look great at 3DS resolution. They don't look great when scaled up, much like how N64 textures and 2D assets look obviously worse when upscaled to 480p on GameCube/Wii, or how a 720p image looks worse upscaled to 1080p compared with being natively rendered on a 720p screen.

I'm done with this discussion - it feels like you're heavily nitpicking here. I've made my point clear enough, and I've already made it clear that it's not a generalisation like you claim it to be.

 

[jmga]

I think Bravely Default looks really good in Citra, the biggest issue is that it's not really playable beyond a certain point yet.

I just saw you forked citra, what are you planning to work on?

 

[PGamer]

New articles:

Migrate Your Savefiles
The Nightly Builds Are Back!
We're Moving to Discourse!

More game updates:

- Monster Hunter Generations

 

[PGamer]

New article: Citra Progress Report - 2017 P1

 

[Prelude.]

hear, hear!

I'm pretty late to the party, but what am I looking at here? That's not a 2D picture? Because if it is I don't get how it can look that good on the emulator.

 

[Aureon]

I'm pretty late to the party, but what am I looking at here? That's not a 2D picture? Because if it is I don't get how it can look that good on the emulator.

Wild guess: The game has 1080p textures for landscapes, but the 3ds still has a 320p screen.

 

[Prelude.]

Wild guess: The game has 1080p textures for landscapes, but the 3ds still has a 320p screen.

That seems a bit weird, especially on a handheld. Are there any other games that do that?

 

[Golnei]

The textures are intended to be viewed much closer than that in regular gameplay - there's a reason why the comparison is the zoomed-out shot rather than the close angle. It's the only situation where the resolution bump would actually help 2D backgrounds.

 

[Vashetti]

Wild guess: The game has 1080p textures for landscapes, but the 3ds still has a 320p screen.

240p

 

[13ruce]

Can't wait for the first mobile phone 3DS emulator tbh. I own alot of 3DS games and i would like to play them on my mobile in the future

 

[aravuus]

So how do I dump my own 3DS games, again? And can I do it to both cartridges and digital games?

Would love to try Majora's Mask on the emulator.

 

[Prelude.]

The textures are intended to be viewed much closer than that in regular gameplay - there's a reason why the comparison is the zoomed-out shot rather than the close angle. It's the only situation where the resolution bump would actually help 2D backgrounds.

http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/caldisla.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Oh, that's why.

 

[PGamer]

So how do I dump my own 3DS games, again? And can I do it to both cartridges and digital games?

Would love to try Majora's Mask on the emulator.

Dumping Game Cartridges
Dumping Installed Titles