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3DS November update WILL be bringing OS Level friend invites after all!
- Thread starter Nuclear Muffin
- Start date
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I think you entirely missed what Somnid meant. Generally, the ability to buy stuff with a CC in no way mandates for the long-term storing of said CC's data into the system. And yet that's what those account systems do: they keep a wallet but they also keep your CC info, the moment you provide them with such. So why the redundancy and the risk of compromising customer's CC info if a security breach occurred? Because, as Somnid noted, they just want to tie you in. Yes, on PSN I can go over the trouble to register and subsequently de-register a CC each time I add funds to my wallet. But why the hoops, when SCE could instead just give me a checkbox at the CC dialog box, letting me choose that, and be done with it? Because they don't want me to.charlequin said:
I hope nintendo's future customer-based account system (as they will inevitable have one sooner or later) sticks with just a wallet.
blu said:
I'm increasingly convinced it's a point-of-view thing.
Some people are integration fans, desiring anything and everything to be linked in the name of convenience. Others desire there to be clear delineations between things that, in their view, serve separate purposes, willing to accept what is in their view a minor inconvenience in exchange for the comfort that they can switch contexts and have a reasonable assurance that one context won't intrude on the other.
Somnid said:
Most of the stuff you're asking for is completely allowed in Steam / PSN / Live. These systems give you the OPTION to do or not to do that. But the saddest thing is that Nintendo doesn't give you that option.
Seriously, are you just fans or simply ignorant about better alternatives?
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Shanadeus said:
Well, if Swapnote/Nintendo Mailbox is Spotpass enabled, you may be getting your wish! (you'd just get a notification which contains the message content. You'd be able to check your messages while playing a game, so long as the Home Menu is accessible)
Daniela Rocker
Banned
@MUWANdo said:
I thought it was today in America.
charlequin
Banned
blu said:
That's still not an inherent problem with social/store integration either, though. Storing or not storing purchasing information is a design choice, just like all the other things I discussed. My wife has a Ravelry account, and they don't store any payment information -- in fact, they only accept outside payment providers like Paypal -- but they do maintain a persistent list of purchased products from which you can redownload them. GOG is the same way -- stored product history and archive, no stored CC info.
If being able to remove payment info is important to people, a company can easily add a little checkbox to not store it and a button to delete it; then you have a service that effectively operates this way, while still allowing other people to store their info (which I myself would very much prefer to do.)
zigg said:
I don't think there's any particularly factual case for "buying things on a game console" and "playing things on a game console" as entirely discrete, separate activities. This particular type of integration is universal to basically all online content stores except Nintendo's because the model makes far more sense than the alternative. This isn't like the argument about whether your email and your photo site and your blog aggregator etc. etc. should all be connected where there's a real case for keeping them separate; this is a single localized ecosystem that logically should be single-signin and only ever isn't when someone's made an architectural mistake.
(I mean, I understand that there will always be idiosyncratic people who want certain things separated for what are essentially unique, OCD reasons, but that's not who an interface or a system should be primarily designed for.)
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I can only commend of such stores that are more interested in offering you a product, than keeping a tab on your CC. Coincidentally, the former is what nintendo have been doing so far.charlequin said:
Well, that's pretty much what I said, didn't I? The problem is, for some reason or another, those DD services on the 'more advanced' gaming platforms we've been discussing here as the model nintendo should follow do not allow such a basic thing as *not* storing CC info (given one still wants to use a CC occasionally). No only that, but they maintain a redundant funds structure in place - one of wallet + CC, whereas they could do with either one. I'm sure you're well familiar with Apple's fabled AppStore which has no such thing as a wallet - your CC is your wallet.
In my mind, 'buying things' is something related to my bank account/cash flow, while 'playing things' is something related to me having some leisure time. The second might largely stem as a result from the first (where it comes to commercial games, apparently), but is in no way permanently bound to my bank account/cash flow.
Ask yourself this, would PSN customers have been so much in arms over the PSN breach earlier this year if everything their PSN accounts kept was a gamer tag and a friend list?
Come on, now. Information access discrimination seems such a foreign concept to you? We live in an information society. Classification and stratification of information are the fundamentals we thrive upon.
Yes, I'm aware of the POV aspect. Heck, I can live with either one (even though I've stated my preferences here). The reason I've been arguing is for the sake of the other side to see why the model they're supporting is not the end-all-be-all of DD services.zigg said:
Finally some official wordings from Nintendo on 2.2.0 update
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/netinfo/3ds/JPN/ja.html
I try to translate 2 points with my poor Japanese and English. Correct me if there is anything wrong.
1. New friend list function
- You can join the game your friend is playing when he is online. (software supporting this function will be upcoming release)
2. System stability update
- Improve system stability and ease of use
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/netinfo/3ds/JPN/ja.html
I try to translate 2 points with my poor Japanese and English. Correct me if there is anything wrong.
1. New friend list function
- You can join the game your friend is playing when he is online. (software supporting this function will be upcoming release)
2. System stability update
- Improve system stability and ease of use
Lord Ghirahim
Member
I hope it really becomes stable this time, the last update didn't fix the power button.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
I hope it adds some stability to my hinge.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Lord Ghirahim said:
What's wrong with the power button?
Lord Ghirahim said:
Oh, you reminded me this important point.
I was also suffering from power button issue since 2.1.0
Now, I just tried 5 times to turn off and then on the machine. The machine turns on every time in the first press.
It seems to be much better than before but no 100% guarantee the problem is completely solved.
Eteric Rice
Member
Wonder if this feature can be added to previous games?
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
EVH said:
No... The app might just support Spotpass notifications (the notifications would contain the content of the message, allowing you to read messages while playing a game)
Daniela Rocker
Banned
Why are you guys pressing the power button to turn on the system? The system is designed to be powered on all the time.
No need to turn it off all the time, guys.
No need to turn it off all the time, guys.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Why the hell would the messaging be a separate app????
It is truly amazing how clueless nintendo is about online.
It is simply mind boggling.
For a company so focused on accessibility, it is almost as if they go out of their way to make their online features so inaccessible that they are essentially worthless.
It is truly amazing how clueless nintendo is about online.
It is simply mind boggling.
For a company so focused on accessibility, it is almost as if they go out of their way to make their online features so inaccessible that they are essentially worthless.
Daniela Rocker
Banned
amtentori said:
We still don't know if it is going to be part of the OS or an app. It could be both. The fully app with pictures, sounds and draws and a simpler one (just text) on the OS.
They could avoid security and offer convenience issues by allowing users to save the CC number in the 3DS itself (without the security code).blu said:
With SpotPass we could (in theory) receive messages while gaming. It depends on whether a notification can be targeted at an individual or not. There would be no way to send them, however.Serenade said:
There's also the very slim chance that the app is a background one, but "opt-in" instead of being bundled in the firmware as default. There is enough space in the background apps row to add another one and they could make it scroll horizontally to fit more, so in theory Nintendo could offer new optional background apps in the eShop.
I also noticed that the home menu unloads when loading a background app, which means that the number of available background apps is not limited by RAM since there can be only one loaded at a time. They might be required to live in the internal memory, though, and that would put a limit on how many of them a 3DS can have installed.
charlequin
Banned
blu said:
Well, for one, insisting on not storing CC info is a no-go. Most normal people are neither too paranoid about privacy nor too concerned about misuse of their accounts to want to re-enter CC info every time, so it's hideously user-unfriendly to not offer the option. Console-DD-store merchants should offer a checkbox that lets you choose either behavior, like the vast majority of web merchants do.
But regardless, this particular behavior is entirely distinct and separate from the social/store integration question. Each of the two questions is a yes/no and each can be chosen by a software implementor independently of the other. That MS and Sony chose one way (and I agree, it's not a good choice) is no more related to their account system than the fact that they use pad-shaped controllers or have USB ports on the front.
Having a wallet is beneficial because it gives you access to customers without a CC. Steam didn't have one for a long time and they finally added one, even though they do still allow exact-price transactions for everything. It doesn't hurt anyone in any way to have the option of a wallet system above and beyond per-transaction
You're assuming that in this context Sony would follow proper security procedures and physically and architecturally decouple the storage of social information and financial information. The problem is, this is still proper security procedure with a shared account structure, and they still weren't doing it. Why would they do so in this alternate universe?
The storage, partitioning, and access control of sensitive data on the server end is architecturally independent from your front-end design. In a correctly designed system, all of the following would be true on a backend level:
- "Fluff" account details, login details, and financial details would each be stored in separate databases, each accessible only by separately authorized users with distinct credentials, and possibly even stored on separate physical systems.
- Login details should be stored with passwords stored using a salted hash with a secure function iterated enough to generate a two-second window per attack attempt.
- Financial details should be entered using the three-digit code on the back of the card, through a payment provider that exchanges details for an encrypted storage token -- this allows the same vendor to place future orders on the same stored card without actually ever retaining the full 16-digit card number.
All three of these backend security features can be implemented just as easily with a shared account as with separated accounts, and Sony did none of them. Frontend system account design simply can't protect against that type of negligent malfeasance.
It's just not relevant in the context we're discussing. All the information coexists at the client endpoint, i.e. the console. It's all transmitted, in one way or another, to the server endpoint (i.e. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo) at which point what they do with it is up to them. It's entirely upon them to implement correct server security either way.
Pushing an old thread back for a single reason: since Mario Kart 7 is released, I finally got a chance to test the friend invite function.
Looks like I can only join friend's game when he is playing Internet games. When he is playing offline Cups (the friend list did not show which session he is playing), the Join button is still disabled until he starts an online session.
Looks like I can only join friend's game when he is playing Internet games. When he is playing offline Cups (the friend list did not show which session he is playing), the Join button is still disabled until he starts an online session.
Off course it makes sense to join in a friend's online game.