The organisational structure is different at Japan Studio. It's one big collection of developers that form teams to work on different projects. It's more like Valve than ND/SSM/etc.
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A glimpse of Sony Japan Studios future under Allan Becker
- Thread starter Hyuga
- Start date
The organisational structure is different at Japan Studio. It's one big collection of developers that form teams to work on different projects. It's more like Valve than ND/SSM/etc.
makingmusic476
Member
I was under the impression that SSM was similarly structured, as is Sony London.
Don't SSM help in the producing and development of a significant number of third party, Sony published PSN titles? And didn't they also assist with Starhawk? Much like Sony Japan's involvement in White Knight Chronicles, Demon's Souls, Patapon, and so on.
And they're currently working on two full games simultaneously, one being God of War and the other being Stig's new IP.
I've always sorta viewed Sony Santa Monica as a sort of "center" to SCEA's development arm, and similarly viewed Sony Japan as the heart of SCEJ. Only without there being much else in SCEJ.
raviolico
Member
Maybe Ueda is the only known dev in the industry who dosn't like this guy or his role at Japan Studio...? ;-)
when did he become a freelancer again? was it mid '11? When did new guy show up there? April 11?
LiquidSolid
Member
I'm not going to agree with that. Team Ico have certainly had problems but the rest of the studio have been fine. Yeah, they don't match the output of every western studio Sony has, no shit, they're not that big and Sony don't seem particularly interested in expanding them too much.
Ha, I was about to make the same exact comparison. Yeah I'm pretty sure the way they're set up is fairly similar, which I guess would in fact put Becker in charge of projects Soul Sacrifice and Tokyo Jungle.
Well you're right that SSM includes the US equivalent of XDEV. But from what we know they still only have a couple of homegrown projects on the go at any one time. Japan Studio are internally working on Puppeteer, Rain, Soul Sacrifice, Last Guardian, and whatever else they have cooking that we don't know about. We know that devs have been moved between Puppeteer and TLG and back again.
This is only speculation, but it seems to be a different system to the US studio set up. SCEJ doesn't need to open up new studios to 'compete' with SCEA, they just need to finish some of the projects they currently have on the go.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Soul Sacrifice is outsourced afaik, Japan Studio is only producing it.
LiquidSolid
Member
That's typically what happens within studios with multiple teams. Though they're usually only moved back when the project is actually done, so that's probably an indication of what kind of state TLG is in.
Sony Computer Entertainment's founding studio is located in the centre of Tokyo. Over 400 people work for Japan Studio to create some of the most original and groundbreaking titles ever seen on PlayStation®
http://www.worldwidestudios.net/japan
And that doesn't include PD. So that is a lot. That is like SSM and ND combined and then some. ND has 200 people now, SSM close to 200. They could be working on who knows how many games if organized well.
makingmusic476
Member
Wouldn't some of those 400 be working on firmware and hardware? Or do they have an R&D facility for that somewhere else?
I always assumed Sony Japan housed the literal heart of PlayStation, and that's where all the big changes were made, with only a part working on actual games.
And I'm sure they're also responsible for stuff like Torostation.
LiquidSolid
Member
Yep, I'd be surprised if even half of that 400 actually worked on games and that's assuming that number is even up to date (which I'm betting it isn't given that Zipper and Bigbig are still on the SCEWWS site).
Oh and there's no way Naughty Dog is bigger than SSM. No way.
Canis lupus
Member
I love the rejuvenation SCEJ got, hope it becomes a studio that is as important as Naughty Dog and can make AAA titles as fast.
Do something with the Demon's Souls IP.
Do something with the Demon's Souls IP.
LiquidSolid
Member
Yes, SCEJ is the publisher, Japan Studio is the studio. But that doesn't mean they can't just lump Japan Studio and their R&D group in together (see: Sony London). They're all located in the same building after all.
learn to read. It clearly says " Over 400 people work for Japan Studio to create some of the most original and groundbreaking titles ever seen on PlayStation®"
Japan Studio is not the same as SCEJ
Perhaps they are counting it like that, but I'm not convinced. Japan Studio are part of WWS and WWS are just game studios, they do not have responsibility for hardware/firmware/PSN. In fact one of the things they said was different about Vita was that WWS were allowed input on the design, nothing more than that.
Maybe they do share a building with the hardware guys but my understanding of that quote is that Japan Studio is 400 people working on game development.
400 people or not, Japan studio still needs to work on a next-gen cinematic RPG. The PlayStation audience has resonated with RPG's since the PS1 days.
Sony needs to make an internal Final Fantasy killer. It needs to have crazy CG production values, 40 hour quests, and that Eastern philosophy oh so dearly missed in our Western titles.
Sony needs to make an internal Final Fantasy killer. It needs to have crazy CG production values, 40 hour quests, and that Eastern philosophy oh so dearly missed in our Western titles.
So true!
I'm still wating for a SCE "AAA" (J)RPG.
The Legend of Dragoon was a good start!
(loved it)
LiquidSolid
Member
Don't be such a dick. That part read like a meaningless PR blurb, especially since it credited the creation of Patapon and White Knight Chronicles to Japan Studio.
Japan Studio isn't SCEJ? Shocking news.
I'm not really saying that WWS have control over the R&D department, I just think they're playing with the numbers to make it seem more impressive (because again, everything else on that page is pretty meaningless PR).
As for the building, well here's the source. Basically, SCEJ, SCE Asia, SCE WWS, Japan Studio and a few other departments were relocated into a single building. SCEI management themselves are located right around the corner in "Sony City".
But regardless, this argument is super pointless.
Like others, I hope the guy can build SCEJ up with an empire of smaller satellite studios and affiliates like SCEA has.
Being more proactive with the CAMP initiative would be a good start, the program's been around for 4 years and all that's come from it is Patchwork Heroes/100ton no BaraBara and Tokyo Jungle. Essentially, it's supposed to be an open-mic call for devs like Net Yaroze was before it, but in both cases SCEJ has been really stingy with actually letting people onto the stage. With the new development tier that DD has enabled, seems a no-brainer that the program could be fostering a solid stream of SCEJ-supported PSN offerings.
Being more proactive with the CAMP initiative would be a good start, the program's been around for 4 years and all that's come from it is Patchwork Heroes/100ton no BaraBara and Tokyo Jungle. Essentially, it's supposed to be an open-mic call for devs like Net Yaroze was before it, but in both cases SCEJ has been really stingy with actually letting people onto the stage. With the new development tier that DD has enabled, seems a no-brainer that the program could be fostering a solid stream of SCEJ-supported PSN offerings.
SCEA and SCEE have their shit together. It's time to beef up Japan, straighten up Team ICO, get Yamauchi to outsource, and make the best damn JRPG trailer for PS4's unveiling.
Sony's bread and butter for two generations running was the Japanese gaming. Square-Enix's incompetence, Microsoft moneyhatting earlier in the gen, and Namco Bandai refusing to translate anything - created a drought. You would think Sony saw this coming and started crafting the JRPG of JRPG's. We can praise Yoshida for many things, but he seriously underestimates the value of a strong JRPG / ARPG.
Sony's bread and butter for two generations running was the Japanese gaming. Square-Enix's incompetence, Microsoft moneyhatting earlier in the gen, and Namco Bandai refusing to translate anything - created a drought. You would think Sony saw this coming and started crafting the JRPG of JRPG's. We can praise Yoshida for many things, but he seriously underestimates the value of a strong JRPG / ARPG.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Strictly talking about Japan, I'm pretty sure Level 5 is a bigger publisher than SCEJ. Inazuma Eleven and Professor Layton sell a lot (or used to sell a lot).
They already needed to start producing some JRPGs and Japanese centric games awhile back, but better late than never. I also feel that, if talent stays, they need to purchase 1-3 small-mid sized JP publishers. Someone like Platinum Games, Media Vision, From Software, Game Arts, Nippon Ichi, etc. They don't even own Clap Hanz so I guess that should be first. Konami recently acquired Hudson Soft, that would have been a great purchase to help SCEJ.
They are not as dependent on 3rd party games on the west as they used to be and they do have some relatively big franchises in the west now (GOW, Uncharted) as well as plenty of mid tier franchises and new IPs to help fill the gaps (Infamous, Killzone, Ratchet, etc). They also have smaller franchises so as to avoid droughts (Resistance, move games, etc).
They need a couple of 500k-1 million selling franchises in Japan and some 250k selling franchises to help fill the gaps. Based on the latest numbers their old big franchises (GT, HSG) are now mid tier and generally sell 300-500K (GT) and 100-200k (HSG). They also have a couple of smallish franchises (LocoRocco, Patapon), but they need more of those smaller/mid tier franchises as well as that 1 or 2 big franchises. They have a dormant franchise (Souls) in the making that sold 300k+ over there.
No. Japan studio has over 400 people, and yet for this gen they made almost nothing. NOTHING.
We haven't seen a single JRPG for PS3 made by Japan Studio.
We haven't seen a single NOTABLE game made by Japan studio this gen.
It's been almost 7 years since this gen started and this should be nothing but an embarrassment for Sony.
Remember, Gravity Rush took 5 years to complete. Yes it didn't have a lot of people working on it but when a gaming company needs to make almost yearly games to push the sales and hardware, this is almost inexcusable.
What proof is there that a good JRPG will sell well?
SolidSnakex
Member
And how much of that development period was due to the fact that they had to move the game from the PS3 to the Vita?
Look Tales of Xillia.
According to Sony saying that PS3 to Vita transition is easy, I don't think a lot of time were spent on transition period.
But the main focus should be what the fuck the rest of the Japan studio team were doing for rest of 5 years.
kuroshiki1 said:
The game was in development for less than 4 years. Summer 08 - Jan 12. Considering the switch made in 2009 and the lack of finished hardware, in normal circunstancies the development would probably have taken 2 years or so.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ps-vita-gravity-rush-originally-intended-for-ps3-6369341
Cave Johnson
Member
Indeed, it's a particularly strange considering they have enough resources to warrant SOME AAA-budget development. Well, I'll let Puppeteer slide considering it took 3 years or something. However, where is Ape Escape, isn't that the highest selling franchise of the PSX? The character(s) are/is in a similar vein to Mario that can allow for very varied types of gameplay especially platforming. It's a pity we don't see much of it.
sublimit
Banned
Yep,this.SCEA and SCEE keep making acquisitions yet on the Japanese front it seems SCEJ are afraid to put their hands in their pockets.From Software maybe is too big but a studio like Mistwalker would have been a really good choice IMO as long as they gave them as much support as Nintendo gave to them (and Monolith Soft).
This again.They are sitting upon a potential goldmine with this IP and yet they aren't doing anything with it.Hopefully this guy (Allan Becker) will bring some better management and get their priorities straight.
SolidSnakex
Member
The Souls IP is really only useful to them if they can figure out how to get From back on board. They have a couple things going for them when it comes to trying to get it back. The Souls games obviously sell a lot better on the PS3 and Sony could potentially throw out more money for a budget if that's what Miyazaki wants. I know Yoshida has indicated that he wants more Demon's Souls games to happen. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
BoilersFan23
Member
The original makers of Arc The Lad 1 and 2 (maybe 3) G-Craft was absorbed into Square if I'm not mistaken (since they made Front Mission games also). I do not think Media Vision has the staff/high end programmers for an HD graphic engine either.
I can tell you why we haven't really easily.
-Rogue Galaxy was created to be the NEXT big RPG to rival Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. That was the goal of Level 5/SCEJ. It didn't exactly do well.
-Wild Arms sold well on PS1, continued seeing its sales go down on PS2 and XF sold really bad.
-Legaia 2 did not sell good compared to 1.
-PoPoLoCrois sales declined on PS2 and the ports on PSP barely sold.
-The newer Arc The Lad games on PS2 developed by Cattle Call bombed.
-Dark Cloud 2 did not sell anywhere near as much as the first one.
-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PS2 all bombed (Okage The Shadow King, Dual Hearts, Tsunganai(sp), etc.).
-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PSP bombed (Coded Soul, Brave Story, Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner, Blade Dancer, Jeanne D'Arc, etc.)
After getting burned out many types making a JRPG, this is why SCEJ does not make many of them internally. And don't forget that while WKC sold decently on PS3, its sequel sold worse and the PSP version really sold bad.
Believe me, I like the genre but I understand why they are cautious, since many of them require a higher budget and lots of staff.
Legend of Dragoon team is pretty much all gone working elsewhere around Japan.
Mistwalker would never work for Sony.
SolidSnakex
Member
FlyingTeacup
Member
really? it was a brilliant game, one of the best on psp.
You're assuming that Sony would want to work with them.
vice versa, sakaguchi can't stand kutaragi.
sublimit
Banned
Why?Because of that Sakaguchi - Kutaragi crap?
I remember reading something from Sakaguchi recently that implied he doesn't have a problem with Ken (or was it Sony/PS3?) anymore...
They are also facebook friends.
SolidSnakex
Member
Kutaragi is long gone. I'm not sure Sony would want to work with them. Before they released BD or LO? Sure, because there was some mystery about what Sakaguchi could do without Square. That mystery is gone now and he hasn't managed to make a commercially or critically successful game without Square.
sublimit
Banned
Well he also made quite many unsuccessful games before making FF...
BoilersFan23
Member
Let's not also forget the movie FF Spirits Within.....
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Actually, we should all forget that movie and pretend it did not exist.
Which division created PS Mobile ? An article mentioned it's based on Tokyo.
funkystudent
Member
Do they still do all the firmware stuff in Tokyo?
Because they really should get that important stuff out of there.
Because they really should get that important stuff out of there.
I have zero idea. It may be spread out worldwide but consolidated in Japan. e.g., PS3 Linux was maintained in Europe. The VM (virtual memory) code was done in Cambridge, if I remember some B3D posts correctly.
According to that article, PS Mobile was born in Sony, Tokyo.
SolidSnakex
Member
Sure, but he's had at least two big budget games (LO and BR) that didn't do too well. Why would you suddenly bank on that changing? If Sony wanted to invest in a big budget RPG then it would seem like they'd be better off looking elsewhere. It'd probably be better for them to do it completely in-house so that they wouldn't be at risk for another Demon's Souls debacle.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Holy hell, 400 staff?! For comparison Nintendo EAD has around 600 staff (including the Tokyo studio) and they've developed like 10x the games this past generation. What the fuck is going on at Japan Studio? :/
Not totally true, SCEWWS also houses groups like XDev (London Studio) and ICE Team (Naughty Dog) who don't work directly on games R&D but rather tools, support and infrastructure. London also did a lot of the heavy lifting on PSN development, not to mention hardware peripherals like EyeToy or Move coming directly from SCEWWS teams rather than the hardware engineers in Tokyo. It's much more mixed than you're letting on.
Not sure how realistic it is for Sony to try to acquire From or make Demon Souls 2 on their own. After all they co developed it with From. In a way Sony doesn't deserve that IP because they gave it no support but I would like new Soul game as a launch title on PS4. That would be sick. That is a system seller, even if it moves only 1 million units, I am sure there are people that would buy PS4 on launch day just for that game.
sublimit
Banned
No one said they should develop it on their own.
It's not that clear cut.
EyeToy and Move may come from their R&D arm, not inside SCEWW studios directly. According to wiki, Richard Marks was put in a studio later to help in EyeToy title development. He may be back to his R&D team again (not under any studio).
Same for ICE team. I wouldn't be surprised if these R&D folks participate in game development directly to help tool adoption and perfection.
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