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[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Well, you definitely can say he's his father's son.

I still felt bad for him after reading the Red Wedding chapter. Really bad way to go.

Out of Catelyn, Robb and Grey Wind, the only one I felt bad for was Grey Wind. That boy knew what was up. I was glad to (kind of) see the end of Catelyn.

 

[Palmer_v1]

When Lysa is going crazy right before Petyr gives her the boot she says that he convinced her to poison him.

It's in the last Sansa chapter in SoS.

Oh so he didn't do it on his own. The other thing i had read made it sound like littlefinger just up and poisoned him without ANYONE knowing.

 

[Basileus777]

Oh so he didn't do it on his own. The other thing i had read made it sound like littlefinger just up and poisoned him without ANYONE knowing.

Jon Arryn was going to foster little Robert Arryn out to Stannis at Dragonstone. Lysa is...kind of possessive of her son, so Littlefinger convinced her to poison her husband.

 

[ultron87]

Oh so he didn't do it on his own. The other thing i had read made it sound like littlefinger just up and poisoned him without ANYONE knowing.

Yeah. Lysa did it just by dripping something into her husband's wine.

He also had her write the letter to Catelyn that implicated the Lannisters. He's a tricky bastard like that.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jon Arryn was going to foster little Robert Arryn out to Stannis at Dragonstone. Lysa is...kind of possessive of her son, so Littlefinger convinced her to poison her husband.

I kind of wonder if that was something Martin made up as he wrote. IIRC there isn't much of a hint that the Lysa was lying; she seemed quite adamant that the Lannisters killed her husband. Then we learn *whoops* actually she did it. I haven't read ASOS in ages, so maybe I'm misrepresenting the line of events.

 

[elrechazado]

I kind of wonder if that was something Martin made up as he wrote. IIRC there isn't much of a hint that the Lysa was lying; she seemed quite adamant that the Lannisters killed her husband. Then we learn *whoops* actually she did it. I haven't read ASOS in ages, so maybe I'm misrepresenting the line of events.

The lannisters are always coy about whether they killed arryn, and I started to suspect that maybe they didn't from book 1 on, so I think it was clearly planned out that it was littlefinger. It's very similar to the "who sent the knife after bran" situation - you think it's cersei or jaimie, but it really isn't. And it fits in with littlefinger's manipulations of both starks and lannisters, from claiming the dagger was tyrion's, to having lysa tell catelyn that the lannisters murdered jon arryn - he was setting up discord between the two houses for himself to ultimately take advantage. Quite awesome.

 

[Basileus777]

I think the knife thing was more contrived. Mostly because there was absolutely no reason to suspect Joffrey before the reveal. People suspected Littlefinger with Jon Arryn even before ASOS. I remember there was something called the Grand Unified Conspiracy theory on the old Westeros EZboard before ASOS came out that suggested Littlefinger was behind everything. The theory was mostly debunked in Storm though.

 

[elrechazado]

I think the knife thing was more contrived. Mostly because there was absolutely no reason to suspect Joffrey before the reveal. People suspected Littlefinger with Jon Arryn even before ASOS. I remember there was something called the Grand Unified Conspiracy theory on the old Westeros EZboard before ASOS came out that suggested Littlefinger was behind everything. The theory was mostly debunked in Storm though.

Well, things he set in motion were certainly indirectly behind almost everything, if not directly.

 

[Basileus777]

Well, things he set in motion were certainly indirectly behind almost everything, if not directly.

Yeah, that's true. He certainly set everything in motion with killing Jon Arryn, sending the letter to Cat, and lying about who owned the dagger. Then he betrayed Ned and secured the Tyrell alliance.

It was the more specific stuff that that theory that was wrong on. It's been a long time so I'm probably remembering it incorrectly, but I think the theory was about Littlefinger and Varys working together and it said they were both behind all the knife stuff too.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm still wondering about Varys and his motives. On one hand, he had to send the note concerning the Dany assassination so as not to raise suspicion of his loyalties. But on the other hand the plan could have easily killed Dany thus ruining Varys' endgame. Assuming Dany is his endgame, and not some Targ pretender.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm still wondering about Varys and his motives. On one hand, he had to send the note concerning the Dany assassination so as not to raise suspicion of his loyalties. But on the other hand the plan could have easily killed Dany thus ruining Varys' endgame. Assuming Dany is his endgame, and not some Targ pretender.

Who said Dany was the endgame at that point? As far he knew, Viserys was still alive. Perhaps the plan was for Viserys to marry Arienne Martell and invade with Dothraki support. How could he even suspect that a meek girl would becomes a leader and birth three dragons?

Besides, isn't it hinted at in the book that Varys tipped off Jorah about the assassination attempt? What's better than a failed assassination for moving things along? Littlefinger even says to Ned that the best thing to save Dany was a lazy/cheap assassination attempt that is likely to fail.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Who said Dany was the endgame at that point? As far he knew, Viserys was still alive. Perhaps the plan was for Viserys to marry Arienne Martell and invade with Dothraki support. How could he even suspect that a meek girl would becomes a leader and birth three dragons?

Besides, isn't it hinted at in the book that Varys tipped off Jorah about the assassination attempt? What's better than a failed assassination for moving things along? Littlefinger even says to Ned that the best thing to save Dany was a lazy/cheap assassination attempt that is likely to fail.

Ah, I thought he knew about Viserys death at that point. But you're right, regardless he didn't know what Dany would eventually become.

I don't remember Jorah being tipped off though, but I do remember it being a rather flimsy assassination attempt considering they could have just sent a Faceless man.

 

[elrechazado]

Who said Dany was the endgame at that point? As far he knew, Viserys was still alive. Perhaps the plan was for Viserys to marry Arienne Martell and invade with Dothraki support. How could he even suspect that a meek girl would becomes a leader and birth three dragons?

Besides, isn't it hinted at in the book that Varys tipped off Jorah about the assassination attempt? What's better than a failed assassination for moving things along? Littlefinger even says to Ned that the best thing to save Dany was a lazy/cheap assassination attempt that is likely to fail.

Yeah, and remember doran martell's plan at the time was to marry his daughter to viserys. Dany was really an afterthought for the plotters imo.

 

[KingK]

I kind of wonder if that was something Martin made up as he wrote. IIRC there isn't much of a hint that the Lysa was lying; she seemed quite adamant that the Lannisters killed her husband. Then we learn *whoops* actually she did it. I haven't read ASOS in ages, so maybe I'm misrepresenting the line of events.

My friend is just starting Storm of Swords, but right after Game of Thrones, he told me that he thought Lysa killed her husband, because of how crazy and protective of her son she is, and that he was going to be sent away.

 

[Matt]

I don't remember Jorah being tipped off though, but I do remember it being a rather flimsy assassination attempt considering they could have just sent a Faceless man.

They didn't want to pay that much.

 

[Fjordson]

They didn't want to pay that much.

Haha, that's what I was thinking. They need to have a sale so we can see more of their bad-assness.

 

[Pokielhl]

They didn't want to pay that much.

Which brings up an interesting point. It was Littlefinger who suggested that Faceless Men were too expensive. Why does he care?

 

[elrechazado]

Which brings up an interesting point. It was Littlefinger who suggested that Faceless Men were too expensive. Why does he care?

How much or how little littlefinger cares and or knows about dany is a very interesting plot point to me. I like to think he's kind of leaving her out of his plans and not really aware of what's going on with her.

 

[KingK]

How much or how little littlefinger cares and or knows about dany is a very interesting plot point to me. I like to think he's kind of leaving her out of his plans and not really aware of what's going on with her.

He has to at least have an idea. He has a lot of connections in Gulltown, which is a major port. There's no way he hasn't heard the stories of Dany's slave rebellions. How much he's incorporated this into his plans is really a mystery, but judging by what we know of his character, I have to believe that he's at least taken it into consideration.

 

[Basileus777]

Which brings up an interesting point. It was Littlefinger who suggested that Faceless Men were too expensive. Why does he care?

He cares because he's the master of coin and would have to find the means of paying them? I'm sure there's more to his motives than that, but it's still something he would have to deal with.

 

[Pokielhl]

Yeah, based upon his character he has to know, but there is almost no hint of it. Except maybe the point I stated above and his request for some tapestries from King's Landing in AFFC. Cersei says they were Robert's hunting tapestries but I don't know why he would want those.

I would like to see him dethrone the Tyrell's/Lannisters and become the major force opposing Dany.

 

[Basileus777]

He has to at least have an idea. He has a lot of connections in Gulltown, which is a major port. There's no way he hasn't heard the stories of Dany's slave rebellions. How much he's incorporated this into his plans is really a mystery, but judging by what we know of his character, I have to believe that he's at least taken it into consideration.

Littlefinger did have that line about the "three Queens" to Sansa. Cersei, Margaery, and Dany would make the most sense as the queens, unless he knows what's going on with Myrcella.

 

[Pollux]

The single greatest moment is Strong Belwas defeating Oznak zo Pahl

Can't wait to see that shit o TV

 

[elrechazado]

speaking of littlefinger, at what point does he try to rape sansa?

 

[Basileus777]

It's nice to see how the show is helping to expand the audience for the books.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/16197/?tag=westeros-20

George Martin owns 8 out of the top 10 spots in Amazon.com's Epic Fantasy bestseller list. In the overall books list, the 4 book boxed set is #3 and has been in the top 100 for 69 straight days. ADWD has been up there for a long ass time too (102 days).

 

[nelsonroyale]

speaking of littlefinger, at what point does he try to rape sansa?

At no point?

 

[IamMattFox]

At no point?

I think he means in the future.

It's bound to happen sooner or later, right?

 

[ultron87]

speaking of littlefinger, at what point does he try to rape sansa?

 

[bengraven]

I think he means in the future.

It's bound to happen sooner or later, right?

 

[Thai]

I love all the "family words" of the major houses! OURS IS THE FURY!

If you had to make something up for your fam, what would it be?

 

[bengraven]

"I Got Dinner Tonight, I'll Call Pizza Hut Delivery"

 

[Future PhaZe]

I think he means in the future.

It's bound to happen sooner or later, right?

I think that Sansa is going to kill him.

 

[aceface]

Y'know, I'm the last person to condone sexual assualt, really, based on my past and the past of my friends and loved ones who suffered through those kind of assaults in the last few years.

But I really hope Cersei gets raped and beaten and left in a gutter.

Unfortunately I think we are going to have to deal with Cersei for awhile longer. With Areys Oakheart dead she can name a new kingsguard who is going to be Zombie Gregor. I'm thinking Cersei and Zombie Gregor are going to be the main Westeros opposition to Dany.

 

[Emerson]

You do know that Cersei is currently imprisoned?

 

[aceface]

You do know that Cersei is currently imprisoned?

Yes but she can choose trial by combat, but it has to be a kingsguard, so it will be Zombie Gregor who will crush all opposition. There you go, free Cersei.

 

[Emerson]

But she can't name Gregor to the kingsguard in her current situation.

 

[Pollux]

I think that Sansa is going to kill him.

Nah...Cat will....

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Nah...Cat will....

I think Sansa will kill him, once he's outlived his usefullness to her. The student will become the master.

Then again, she only really has two books to become a master, so who knows...

 

[q_q]

I think Sansa will kill him, once he's outlived his usefullness to her. The student will become the master.

Then again, she only really has two books to become a master, so who knows...

Oh I like that. A lot.

 

[Fjordson]

Well... that's dicey. Sandor Clegane is probably alive. But, as is stated a few times in AFFC, the Hound is dead.

Yeah, probably right. Fuck man, makes me sad. The Hound is/was so great. I'll be happy if Sandor is still alive, though. Just hope he hasn't become totally docile or whatever.

 

[elrechazado]

Yes but she can choose trial by combat, but it has to be a kingsguard, so it will be Zombie Gregor who will crush all opposition. There you go, free Cersei.

does not compute

 

[ZephyrFate]

I love all the "family words" of the major houses! OURS IS THE FURY!

If you had to make something up for your fam, what would it be?

"All Dicks Will Be Sucked"

 

[Pollux]

I think Sansa will kill him, once he's outlived his usefullness to her. The student will become the master.

Then again, she only really has two books to become a master, so who knows...

You really think Sansa has it in her to kill someone. Although if Petyr keeps going all pedo on her then yea I COULD see her snapping. I just would see it as more poetic if Zombie Cat shows up and cuts off his balls....

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

You really think Sansa has it in her to kill someone. Although if Petyr keeps going all pedo on her then yea I COULD see her snapping. I just would see it as more poetic if Zombie Cat shows up and cuts off his balls....

Sansa wouldn't kill him herself, she'd get someone else to do it.

It would be a slightly older Sansa who look just like Cat did when she was younger. He'll be so close to getting what he always wanted, but will ultimately be rejected and defeated once again. Maybe Harry the Heir will gut him.

 

[aceface]

does not compute

If she can't do it herself from jail, somehow she'll get Zombie Gregor appointed to the kingsguard, they built up zombie gregor too much for him not to wreak some havoc. I could be wrong though, maybe he'll wreak havoc in some other way.

 

[elrechazado]

I love all the "family words" of the major houses! OURS IS THE FURY!

If you had to make something up for your fam, what would it be?

"all over our face"

 

[Puddles]

Yes but she can choose trial by combat, but it has to be a kingsguard, so it will be Zombie Gregor who will crush all opposition. There you go, free Cersei.

So fucking awesome that her decision to pack the Kingsguard with brainless sycophants and yes-men instead of top knights is coming right back around to kick her in the cooter.

 

[Enduin]

Im curious as to the chances that Cersei or Margaery could demand a Trial of Seven, as used in the Hedge Knight novella, especially cause theyre being held captive by the Faith and a Trial of Seven is a religiously inspired trial by combat.

Its not abundantly clear as to who can and cannot demand such a trial and it could be in Margaery's interests to so in order to possibly level the playing field if a Super Mutant Gregor Clegane does enter the picture as hes like to do. Though at the same time this is an extremely rare and widely unknown rite so they may not even know of its existence, its only known use was almost 100 years prior.

Regardless though, I would love to see it be used. It would simply just be an awesome fight, but as well with each side needing to gather 7 champions to fight for them that whole process and who either side gets to fight for them would in itself be really interesting.

 

[Puddles]

I love all the "family words" of the major houses! OURS IS THE FURY!

If you had to make something up for your fam, what would it be?

"We only sow in your mom."

 

[bunbun777]

I remember littlefinger mentioning towards the end of the last book that he had previously had a 5 year plan to bring about the realm under him but that due to current situations things had been sped up chaotically fast, which he relished.

He knows about Dany, you can bank on it.