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//: ABC-Mart MSL Grand Finals - Flash v ZerO - BW Reigns Supreme

C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
ABC-Mart MSL Grand Finals - Flash v ZerO - BW Reigns Supreme
*Credit of post goes towards Teamliquid
TeamLiquid Thread
AvgOE.jpg

ABC-Mart MSL Grand Final: (Z)ZerO vs (T)Flash
Saturday, June 11th, 2011: 1700 KST / 1000 CET / 0400 EST / 0100 PST​


Match List​
Set 1: Monte Cristo
Set 2: La Mancha
Set 3: Circuit Breaker
Set 4: Dante's Peak SE
Set 5: Monte Cristo

9vDlD.jpg



Streams​
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/GTR
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/eton7410
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Kiante
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/nanashin


VODS
Preshow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU67R8_h80I
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryyxBwnlP40&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBbgrMsQlIY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6d0AzJOIJc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-82rhT3jW0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Game 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71mvEPgBlec&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
 
A

Arzehn

Member
So glad we didn't get a ZvZ MSL Final this time. Can't believe we're already at the finals and OSL prelims haven't even started.

Staying up tonight, it's gonna be sick! :D
 
N

NeoCross

Member
Time for some SUPERIOR BW goodness.

If Flash wins this he'll tie Nada with the most wins competitive BW with 3OSL/MSL championships.

GO FLASH BUT FUCK YOU FOR ELIMINATING BISU
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
NeoCross said:
Time for some SUPERIOR BW goodness.

If Flash wins this he'll tie Nada with the most wins competitive BW with 3OSL/MSL championships.

GO FLASH BUT FUCK YOU FOR ELIMINATING BISU
Click to expand...
Bisu is a scrub who can only win with DT's.

Also shame on you people for not watching GTR stream. He is like the spooky of StarCraft.
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
Hazaro said:
Bisu is a scrub who can only win with DT's.

Also shame on you people for not watching GTR stream. He is like the spooky of StarCraft.
Click to expand...
WHenever I watch GTRs stream, there seem to be connection issues lol
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
slidewinder said:
Is GTR going to have English commentary then? These nerds on eton7410 are already annoying the hell out of me.
Click to expand...
eton should be only one with english...but maybe someone else will have some too.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Corran Horn said:
WHenever I watch GTRs stream, there seem to be connection issues lol
Click to expand...
Yeah Daum player is shitty like that.
That's why I have max streams running muted.
 
N

NeoCross

Member
Hazaro said:
Bisu is a scrub who can only win with DT's.

Also shame on you people for not watching GTR stream. He is like the spooky of StarCraft.
Click to expand...
False, Bisu is the protoss Revolutionist!

But of course I prefer Stork <3 over Bisu.
 
T

TheThunder

Member
I hate these shitty clapping balloons that koreans have a fetish with, might as well throw in a vuvuzela in there to top it all off.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
IM HYPED. GTR seems to be the highest quality feed amongst those, the streamer is a douche though and sometimes put the feed in the background....

I feel for Hazaro, I could never let go of counter strike 1.x and migrate to CSS either in terms of watching e-sports or playing... yet SC2 is a fine, fine sequel :)
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
WARCOCK said:
yet SC2 is a fine, fine sequel :)
Click to expand...
Everyone in SC II is bad and suffers from a lot of things being too easy right now.

Maybe in 4 years some people will get good at it.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
Hazaro said:
Everyone in SC II is bad and suffers from a lot of things being too easy right now.

Maybe in 4 years some people will get good at it.
Click to expand...

Yes i think it will result in more impressive play. Like mastering baneling mines/nydus, warp prisms etc... etc... Correct me if i'm wrong but the archaic state of the interface and menus in BW kind of imposes a huge micro barrier to overcome that doesn't really have an impact on the actual strategy or tactics hence perhaps we won't have to wait as long for good sc2.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
WARCOCK said:
Yes i think it will result in more impressive play. Like mastering baneling mines/nydus, warp prisms etc... etc... Correct me if i'm wrong but the archaic state of the interface and menus in BW kind of imposes a huge micro barrier to overcome that doesn't really have an impact on the actual strategy or tactics hence perhaps we won't have to wait as long for good sc2.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the skill ceiling for engagements is so low due to the AI.

A lot of the units have no ability to get extra value out of them since firing animations are too long or their move speed is bad or they can't kite.

Plus nothing is really overpowered so you just get mass blobs fighting most of the time.
And max army size is low. And tech rush barely matters. So many things :[

It's ok though I like watching both games since SC II is still evolving and that in itself is interesting to watch.
PhoenixDark said:
Everyone in SC II is bad? ok
Click to expand...
Compared to BW skill level yes. There is no room to have 2 vultures kill 20 drones because of skill. To kite mutas for 3 minutes straight with wraiths while macroing and preparing a MM bust. Somehow people in BW manage to macro near perfectly without building hotkeys and their army being on 6 control groups. It's such a large mechanics gap.
 
N

NeoCross

Member
WARCOCK said:
Yes i think it will result in more impressive play. Like mastering baneling mines/nydus, warp prisms etc... etc... Correct me if i'm wrong but the archaic state of the interface and menus in BW kind of imposes a huge micro barrier to overcome that doesn't really have an impact on the actual strategy or tactics hence perhaps we won't have to wait as long for good sc2.
Click to expand...

If anything the micro in BW is FAR more impressive than the ones you see in SC2 now because no limit to control groups and tab switching to different units makes it too easy in SC2. Cloning storms and dark swarms take more concentration and it definitely has an impact on actual strategy.

Microing and Macroing in BW takes way more practice and skill than it does in SC2.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Everyone in SC II is bad? ok
Click to expand...

When did brood war come out dude? Take that comment within its context. The level of skill those guys are displaying is in a complete other dimension, which is kind of self explanatory given the time...
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
NeoCross said:
If anything the micro in BW is FAR more impressive than the ones you see in SC2 now because no limit to control groups and tab switching to different units makes it too easy in SC2. Cloning storms and dark swarms take more concentration and it definitely has an impact on actual strategy.

Microing and Macroing in BW takes way more practice and skill than it does in SC2.
Click to expand...

It is more impressive, of course... but not to us the viewers, it's really hard to convey micro complexity through a feed, unless you play competitively yourself. But yes i agree with pretty much everything you said.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
WARCOCK said:
When did brood war come out dude? Take that comment within its context. The level of skill those guys are displaying is in a complete other dimension, which is kind of self explanatory given the time...
Click to expand...

I know there's more skill involved in BW, and it's been around long enough to be figured out. I just disagree with the idea that SCII players are bad, even the best ones. It's a different game.

In terms of BW players, I'll believe Jaedong/Flash dominate SCII when it actually happens.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
PhoenixDark said:
I know there's more skill involved in BW, and it's been around long enough to be figured out. I just disagree with the idea that SCII players are bad, even the best ones. It's a different game.

In terms of BW players, I'll believe Jaedong/Flash dominate SCII when it actually happens.
Click to expand...
Don't take what I say so seriously. It's 2am and I've barely slept and churned out half a semester of work in 2 days.

So excite and trying to stay up to watch a beautiful game.
opticalmace said:
So umm is this a Starcraft II match? lol
Click to expand...
StarCraft I, BroodWar. 2D, 12 years old, still baller.
 
T

TheThunder

Member
Hazaro said:
Compared to BW skill level yes. There is no room to have 2 vultures kill 20 drones because of skill. To kite mutas for 3 minutes straight with wraiths while macroing and preparing a MM bust. Somehow people in BW manage to macro near perfectly without building hotkeys and their army being on 6 control groups. It's such a large mechanics gap.
Click to expand...
While I agree in general that Flash and JD are more skilled that anyone right now, many of their skills will be redundant if they ever switch like multiple control groups or being able to produce units from many structures at the same time.
 
N

NeoCross

Member
WARCOCK said:
It is more impressive, of course... but not to us the viewers, it's really hard to convey micro complexity through a feed, unless you play competitively yourself. But yes i agree with pretty much everything you said.
Click to expand...
Don't know about other people but I'm more impressed when Savior manages 5-6 3 larvae hatches while microing 6+ control groups of units while cloning swarms during battle and re positioning lurkers than watching Nestea 1a units or banes to a planetary fortress.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Hazaro said:
Don't take what I say so seriously. It's 2am and I've barely slept and churned out half a semester of work in 2 days.

So excite and trying to stay up to watch a beautiful game.

StarCraft I, BroodWar. 2D, 12 years old, still baller.
Click to expand...

Yea, don't worry I know buddy. My comment was more aimed at folks on TL especially who like belittling SCII. It's not as skillful of a game right now, certainly. Who knows where the meta game will be in a year.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
14cc
TheThunder said:
While I agree in general that Flash and JD are more skilled that anyone right now, many of their skills will be redundant if they ever switch like multiple control groups or being able to produce units from many structures at the same time.
Click to expand...
But they don't have to be. I see far too many players in GSL having their ball on '1'. That is just disgraceful.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Won said:
Broodwar is so boring they even have to play clips during the game!
Click to expand...
And yet there is more excitement from watching a drone being micro'd than GSL Code S Finals.

3 hatcheries, 4 lings, lair going up. Bw so good.
 
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