theusedversion
Member
It does actually. The service stays free and the problem is solved.
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Accounts that have spent less than $5 on Steam now have limited access
- Thread starter Sendou
- Start date
It does actually. The service stays free and the problem is solved.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I think the combined happiness of all the active steam users who'll experience less bots now surpasses the decreased happiness of those who actively use steam never having spent a dime in the store
So according to Bentham this is a morally valid move
So according to Bentham this is a morally valid move
Instead of only affecting maybe a couple hundred to a few thousand fringe cases you now took away a basic feature from tens of millions of legitimate customers. How is that in any way better?
Leafhopper
Banned
They aren't charging for the service though. It's not unreasonable to think that someone that uses Steam will eventually spend 5 dollars. Considering it's main point is to sell you video games. If you already spent 5 dollars on Steam you are fine.
You do know that people meet each other in video games and add people in random games right? Limiting invites is ridiculously silly.
It's 5 dollars. Man this is just as bad as people complaining about Pokemon Bank.
If Dota 2 is the only thing they play on Steam they might buy some stuff in the store. I mean that's not set in stone either mind you, it does indeed suck for people who only play TF2 or Dota or other F2P games.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Excellent. Now I don't have to look forward with random friend invites
And hopefully you still would.
Valve isn't charging to use Steam services. They are implementing an effective policy to control spam which will very minorly inconvenience a small subset of users.
See, now that would be an option for controlling spam which results in a major inconvenience for many legitimate users of the service.
Palette Swap
Member
They're not charging, they're checking you've already spent at least 5 bucks on Steam.
Leafhopper
Banned
Yeah I agree but it's not stopping people for using it entirely, just certain community features. For example, I made a Steam account in 2009 when I got my physical copy of TF2.
If it was the only thing I ever played I would be screwed right now. And that's a game by Valve no less, you would think they could allow those retail keys at least.
I always thought that those crazy dota people spend $100 or more on cosmetics each month. But then I'm solely basing this on my experience listening to brad shoemaker & co.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Ah so the issue is a semantic one in which there's no way to tell if an indie bundle key was bought for $1.00 or $100.00
theusedversion
Member
Of course they are. They require you to spend money to unlock features. It's the same thing.
A slight inconvenience versus gimping the service for the, more than likely, hundreds of thousands of "legitimate" users who have never spent money on Steam.
wut? No, that's a terrible suggestion. Let's gimp the service for the millions of paying customers so we don't have to gimp the service for the minority that are not actual customers?
How does that make any sense?
Irresistable Thing
Member
Good move. Let's be real, if you're one of those users who has only been been playing free tf2 for years, you're of no value to Valve.
Yea, I left one important ambiguity and edited it now. I meant they buy the game at retail.
That you assumed the money in my example was spent on Steam's store instead of retail or key-seller kinda shows that some people may be in a Steam-bubble.
Maybe this is a first sign, that Steam now has too much power in the PC gaming communities.
And no, I don't have any problems with Steam, never had, because their rules and business practices were always out in the open, and it was for the consumer to decide, if they thought that the rules are fair.
But now Steam is actually taking away (advertised?) features in a one sided decision.
You wouldn't have a problem with being forced to spend 5$ (or any other amount) to keep your access to features that you already used an were implied to be free?
Leafhopper
Banned
And not buying stuff in TF2? I guess you do have a point, in a sense.
Leafhopper
Banned
I swear they did or are adding some kinda phone verification thing to Steam Guard. I could be imagining that.
Ah I see where you are coming from now. Okay, your right. Valve did say those features were free to begin with. They would have to change their policy I guess.
commanderpepper
Member
I didn't even know of Steam spam bots.
I've yet to see any convincing retort to "But it's only $5!" None of the restrictions are aggressive or heavy-handed. Even if you wanted to give Valve nothing, you could add $5 to your Wallet and never spend it (you are not forced to spend Steam Wallet funds to complete a purchase).
rationalyounggun
Banned
Honestly this is really stupid and they could've just done a Recaptcha verification to make sure there's no spambot accounts cause some people do want to partake in the Steam Community even if they don't buy games on some accounts.
This is just Gaben trying to make more money and it's almost extortion by Valve.
This is just Gaben trying to make more money and it's almost extortion by Valve.
Leafhopper
Banned
If you don't play CS:GO, TF2 or Dota 2 (I barely play CS:GO now and TF2 and Dota 2 I don't play anymore) you won't see them. They want the items from those games so they can sell them on their main account. Only reason I know of these at all outside of this thread is because my friends complain about it.
They've already tried that and it didn't work.
Lanrutcon
Member
Your post is textbook internet panic. Thank you for contributing.
I don't play those games and I was getting multiple invites a day from fake accounts. It got a little better since I made all my stuff private but it still happened.
I'm happy they're at least trying. Don't know if it'll help buy it's an answer to a big problem.
CrunchyFrog
Member
They were entirely forthright with why they did this. It's at the beginning of the press release. It's a move meant to both reduce the alarmingly growing number of malicious accounts and inconvenience as few people as possible. Does it suck for that minority for which it does? Yeah, I suppose so. But the solution to their problem is incredibly trivial and it's a problem not because Valve are corporate kingpins hellbent on hoarding 99% of the world's wealth but because there are assholes out there using any means they can to steal people's accounts and their earned and bought goods and money. If the government passes a one-time $5 public park tax (and not even a tax but more limiting it to those who have made $5 or more in donations prior) to maintain the the landscape from an outbreak of pests or vandals would you have a problem with it?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
First, in this scenario what features would you be screwed out of? Voting on Greenlight? Why are you voting if you have interest in none of the games. Chatting? You can still chat through the desktop client. Why would you be chatting through mobile? Because you met all your best IRL friends through TF2 and they can't contact you any other way and even though you have a monthly data plan you can't spare five bucks to reach out to these crucial friends and you're not willing to talk to them via the desktop client or ail or Twitter or Facebook? Marketplace features? If you added money to your wallet to buy items at any point, you wouldn't be locked out so how are you using the marketplace to begin with?
Second, this scenario requires you not only to have only bought TF2 and be playing it regularly 6 years later to be affected, you also need to have never tried Mann vs Machine or bought any TF2 items. This is like a vanishing edge case.
But yea, if somehow all of this is true, then you've got a scenario where Valve is asking you--as a ridiculously specific user who has very high needs for their services and no desire to pay a penny--for a $5 one-time fee to use their social services. And if you're saying "but every other social service is free", remember you have already ruled out using them because if you hadn't you wouldn't be inconvenienced by this change.
And if you're STILL upset, then I promise you someone from our Steam thread will give you five dollars if you go in and state your case. So this impacts literally no one on GAF.
But yes, I agree:
- Nongaffers
- who don't play any PC games
- who don't want to play any PC games
- who don't use social networking
- who need to use Steam's social network
- who have to use it from mobile
- who won't use any other mobile social network
- who won't pay a one-time $5 fee (which again they can spend to get content so it's not even a fee, it's just a minimum purchase)
- who can't ask any of the many friends--that they talk to on a daily basis on Steam and need to continue doing so all the time even though they can't use any communication outlet besides Steam and can't use Steam on desktop--to loan them $5
Will be negatively impacted by this. I feel pretty bad for those people, not only because of this change but also because of their crippling neurosis.
That can be easily automated. TF2 idling was automated years ago to get item drops.
No it wouldn't. Faking the playing of a game is extremely easy. I can put my Steam right now thinking it's playing GTA V without even downloading it.
Well here's the way I see it. There is a cafe in a park with air-conditioning, nice seats and big tables. The cafe serves food and drinks, while there are also various food stands outside of the cafe. For years students and various park attendees would sit in the cafe to study, chit chat, etc. Most of them would buy at least a drink in the cafe, but some don't, and some bring outside food into the cafe to eat in a more comfortable environment. This eventually leads to some people taking advantage and the cafe starts of be overcrowded, at times inconveniencing actual paying customers as they are unable to get a seat. So the cafe implements a new policy, if you want to stay in the cafe, you have to at least buy a drink.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Furthermore, it's not even a charge, it's just requiring that you have spent money on the store. It's not like you're paying $5 just to unlock features.
Slippery slope nonsense.
To add to this. You have to buy a drink just one time and then have lifetime access.
stan423321
Member
Because you are putting everyone in two groups, it doesn't. The problem is that there are more than two types of account, "spambot" and "regular US Steam consumer".
For two years or so, I was an "illegitimate" Steam consumer. I bought Steam CD boxes on physical sales, or through online retailers with payment at a post office or during delivery, because I had no debit card. Now I do have one, but thousands of people don't, and I can't not sympathize with them.
This is literally impossible to get around "legitimately" if you happen to live without a debit card, in a place where they don't sell Steam credit in stores. Well guess what, I haven't seen it in shops around here. But Steam CD boxes are alive and kicking.
Lanrutcon
Member
But it wouldn't prove they're not spam bots.
Leafhopper
Banned
Well dang. I thought it was primarily just games that had a huge market presence.
Oh no I agree with you, entirely. I should have worded that better. I am not one of those people. I am just saying in the extremely niche case that I somehow didn't spend any cash for the passed 6 years, I would be shafted on some community features that more than likely I would never use anyway since, well I only play TF2. It doesn't affect me at all.
Nope. You can idle without even having the game in question installed, so your suggestion wouldn't prove anything.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Corrections/additions:
- Drinks you take from outside don't count, even if they're the cafe's brand from a supermarket.
- You need to have bought a drink at some point in the last 10 years, at least once. It's not a fee every time you come to the cafe
- You can still come to the cafe even if you never have bought a drink, there's just two tables you can't sit at
- You can still sit at one of those tables some days (you can still use chat if you're on PC, but not on mobile/browser) just not other days--and the other table you can still sit at on those days, but a friend needs to invite you, and we've already established this cafe is filled with your friends who are there every day which is why this is even an issue.
- Everyone else in the cafe is willing to buy you a drink if you're actually really hurting here, and that drink will count on your account so the problem will be solved, but you're too proud to accept the offer but not too proud to loudly complain about management policy to everyone you talk to.
Yes.
I guess I'm just saying I think you've created a hypothetical group of people that don't exist in reality. No one is going to combine the high needs, the low willingness to pay, the lack of social connection, the lack of alternatives, the need to use on mobile, etc all into one person. I think it's telling that everyone in this thread who is angry is angry because conceptually this disagree with a paywall, rather than being able to actually come up with an example of a person who is left out in the cold AND cares about being left out in the cold.
Seriously, this.
If you really meet all the criteria above, you can borrow $5 from a friend, purchase a few games on sale and gift the games back to your friend and get your limitations lifted without tarnishing your pride by receiving a donation. Also, Valve's F2P games (at least) already limit marketplace access to users who never spent money to prevent item farming.
I get the feeling that most people who are heavily inconvenienced by this are the ones who actively refuse to spend money on Steam and only use it because they have to. Or they buy all their games from Nuuvem.
Leafhopper
Banned
Yeah it shouldn't stop you from doing that.
Also people saying look at game time, there is Steamidler that exists.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Oh wow I didn't even think of this. Someone wouldn't even need to give you $5 to "buy yourself a drink", they could give you $5 to "go up to the counter and buy them a drink". That makes the "I wouldn't accept the gift out of pride" argument even thinner.
R_thanatos
Member
Just saw the news .
I find this decision very good. so much steam greenlight abuse from what i've seen
I find this decision very good. so much steam greenlight abuse from what i've seen
Leafhopper
Banned
I think it will help greenlight a bit but I think a lot of dumb things will still get on the store. Maybe in less bursts now though, so it's good.
Lanrutcon
Member
Oh hey, I hadn't even thought of that. Good call.
CrunchyFrog
Member
And you know what, I wasn't joking earlier when I said if there is someone here on GAF with a legitimately affected use case that I'd give them the $5 (maybe I'll personally visit if you're nice and/or have some choice whiskey). What if we set up like a SteamGAF tax fund? I'd be willing to donate.
Yup, you receiving a gift doesn't count for the 5 bucks, but you buying a 5 dollar gift to someone else does count.