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[FoneBone]

Take a look at Universal Pictures. Scott Pilgrim bombed hard in the theaters and what did they say about it? They were disappointed that more people failed to see it, but felt that such films were important to the film industry regardless of numbers". They supported it despite its failure.

That's nothing but a PR line. Nonetheless, the film industry's business model isn't very comparable to the present state of the game industry.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If Turn10 is looking to expand, perhaps the new Bizarre creations can work in conjunction with Turn10 to pump out PGR sequels and Forza sequels alternatively. As much as I hate that business model, the 2 year cycle is could be aided with distribution of asset development between the two.

Anyone remember the old plans to alternate GeoW and Halo every other year and Forza/PGR every other year?

Why not just poach some people from Bizarre and add them to Turn 10 or a new cheaper startup? The value is in the IPs and the talent without those you are just buying a bigass expensive building.

 

[Acidote]

MS shouls start a new studio with the key staff from Bizzare and get them working on PGR and Geometry Wars clones. Sort of Project Metropolis Racing and Dimensional Wars, but with good names instead of the crap I just made up :lol

 

[thetrin]

Why do people want MS to hire them? Have you guys already forgotten about FASA and Ensemble?

 

[Confidence Man]

Someone should've smelled a bomb a mile away with Blur. After the Club you'd think they would be smarter about what games they invest their time and effort into.

 

[Lebron]

The last Bizarre game I bought was PGR4, I regret nothing. They went out with a bang for me.

 

[Fio]

Why does a company like Bizarre have 200 employees? That's fucking crazy and ridiculous, no wonder they went bankrupt.

 

[see5harp]

Someone should've smelled a bomb a mile away with Blur. After the Club you'd think they would be smarter about what games they invest their time and effort into.

No one bought PGR4 either. Blur was a technical marvel on both 360 and PS3, it deserved an audience.

 

[enzo_gt]

Why not just poach some people from Bizarre and add them to Turn 10 or a new cheaper startup? The value is in the IPs and the talent without those you are just buying a bigass expensive building.

See I understand this, but Bizarre is located in Liverpool, UK, and Turn10 somewhere in America no? I don't know how easy or convenient that would be, and Bizarre already has a studio, which I presume MS can just take over. It isn't the same studio as when they worked on PGR though, I believe.

That's why I think the two studios working together to allocate different resources could be optimal. Stuff like recording engine sounds and whatnot could be much cheaper since you've got men on both sides of the ocean to collect this stuff. Has there ever been an example of this kind of dual-studio setup working in other games?

No one bought PGR4 either. Blur was a technical marvel on both 360 and PS3, it deserved an audience.

PGR4 is a technical marvel. It's one of the most beautiful games on Xbox 360, period.

 

[Dalauz]

Geo Wars was the best 360 launch title

 

[Evlar]

Best of luck to the Bizarre guys.

 

[intheinbetween]

MS shouls start a new studio with the key staff from Bizzare and get them working on PGR and Geometry Wars clones. Sort of Project Metropolis Racing and Dimensional Wars, but with good names instead of the crap I just made up :lol

why would MS clone its own ip PGR?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Hook up with Activision and it's only a matter of time.

 

[Acidote]

why would MS clone its own ip PGR?

Hah, forgot that :lol

 

[see5harp]

PGR4 is a technical marvel. It's one of the most beautiful games on Xbox 360, period.

Agreed. PGR is my favorite racing series of all time. It's more enjoyable to me than Forza.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

See I understand this, but Bizarre is located in Liverpool, UK, and Turn10 somewhere in America no? I don't know how easy or convenient that would be, and Bizarre already has a studio, which I presume MS can just take over. It isn't the same studio as when they worked on PGR though, I believe.

That's why I think the two studios working together to allocate different resources could be optimal. Stuff like recording engine sounds and whatnot could be much cheaper since you've got men on both sides of the ocean to collect this stuff. Has there ever been an example of this kind of dual-studio setup working in other games?

PGR4 is a technical marvel. It's one of the most beautiful games on Xbox 360, period.

The point is for any of that to happen MS would have to buy Bizarre. The same Bizarre that is on a string of flops. The same Bizarre that is apparently too expensive for Activision to keep afloat. The same Bizarre that Microsoft had the chance to buy out already 2 years ago and passed on.

If MS had any desire to do what you are describing they could just hire some former Bizarre guys to start up a smaller, cheaper studio or just relocate them to Turn 10. Buying a 200 person studio just to have them consult or work on a 1/2 a game makes no sense.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

See I understand this, but Bizarre is located in Liverpool, UK, and Turn10 somewhere in America no? I don't know how easy or convenient that would be, and Bizarre already has a studio, which I presume MS can just take over. It isn't the same studio as when they worked on PGR though, I believe.

That's why I think the two studios working together to allocate different resources could be optimal. Stuff like recording engine sounds and whatnot could be much cheaper since you've got men on both sides of the ocean to collect this stuff. Has there ever been an example of this kind of dual-studio setup working in other games?

PGR4 is a technical marvel. It's one of the most beautiful games on Xbox 360, period.

Haven't ubisoft got two assassins creed teams working on various parts of the game? One in Canada and one in Asia somewhere?

 

[Confidence Man]

No one bought PGR4 either. Blur was a technical marvel on both 360 and PS3, it deserved an audience.

That should've given them double pause. If no one bought PGR4, which was a sequel to an established exclusive franchise, what hope did a samey-looking new IP have?

 

[HK-47]

Also PGR4 became a major pack-in title for MS the following year. It was by no means ignored or a dead release.

Yeah thats why they launched it right after the biggest game on the system that year in Halo 3.

 

[Vinci]

Activision has become an incredibly aggressive company and they exist 100% to make money. They do not wish to drive the industry forward.

Obviously, making money is important to every company, but there are some which also place an importance on creativity and quality.

Okay, I've got to ask: Which company does this again? I mean, Sony has their prestige games from time to time, but... any other examples?

 

[HK-47]

Activision has become an incredibly aggressive company and they exist 100% to make money. They do not wish to drive the industry forward.

Obviously, making money is important to every company, but there are some which also place an importance on creativity and quality.

Take a look at Universal Pictures. Scott Pilgrim bombed hard in the theaters and what did they say about it? They were disappointed that more people failed to see it, but felt that such films were important to the film industry regardless of numbers". They supported it despite its failure.

If Edgar Wright had been a development house, he would have been out on the street after Scott Pilgrim.

Well it does help that films have 3 major revenue sources. After DVD sales and TV licensing, even box office duds can make back their money.

 

[Rad-]

Why do people want MS to hire them? Have you guys already forgotten about FASA and Ensemble?

Not the same situation as MS isn't buying Bizarre, it seems it's already dead. MS's record for building studios (or help to build) is a very good one however, and that's what people want.

 

[Rolf NB]

Activision is such a s shithole. How many studios has their apathy ruined this generation alone?

Red Octane.
Shaba.
Raven.
Bizarre?
Budcat?

 

[Princess Skittles]

Geo Wars was the best 360 launch title

Geo Wars 2 is the best 360 title.

 

[dark10x]

Okay, I've got to ask: Which company does this again? I mean, Sony has their prestige games from time to time, but... any other examples?

Perhaps it isn't common practice, but it also isn't common to close down companies after a single bomb either. If Activision had owned DICE, Mirror's Edge would have lead to their closure no doubt.

 

[Vinci]

Perhaps it isn't common practice, but it also isn't common to close down companies after a single bomb either. If Activision had owned DICE, Mirror's Edge would have lead to their closure no doubt.

I admit to not being fully aware of Bizarre's library of games, but wasn't it more than one bomb? I mean, people have alluded to as many as three or four in succession in this thread.

 

[see5harp]

That should've given them double pause. If no one bought PGR4, which was a sequel to an established exclusive franchise, what hope did a samey-looking new IP have?

Did you play Blur or PGR or any of Bizarre's great games not called The Club? I'm not arguing whether their studio is sustainable on a business level. They are a great developer and if you don't realize that you are ignorant.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Someone should've smelled a bomb a mile away with Blur. After the Club you'd think they would be smarter about what games they invest their time and effort into.

Hindsight is 20/20.
Blur had a good shot at becoming a big franchise its just that fate dictated it didn't.

 

[Vinci]

Hindsight is 20/20.
Blur had a good shot at becoming a big franchise its just that fate dictated it didn't.

What was this 'good shot' you're referring to? And no, making a good game isn't the same as making a game capable of creating a big franchise. Anything else?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Perhaps it isn't common practice, but it also isn't common to close down companies after a single bomb either. If Activision had owned DICE, Mirror's Edge would have lead to their closure no doubt.

Doesn't Dice do valuable engine work for EA and work on the Battlefield games? If anything the success of those bought them the chance to make a pet project like Mirrors Edge. No where near the same situation as Bizarre.

 

[Manus]

Love to see Microsoft or Sony pick some of the people up so at least we can get a Geo Wars 3.

 

[enzo_gt]

The point is for any of that to happen MS would have to buy Bizarre. The same Bizarre that is on a string of flops. The same Bizarre that is apparently too expensive for Activision to keep afloat. The same Bizarre that Microsoft had the chance to buy out already 2 years ago and passed on.

If MS had any desire to do what you are describing they could just hire some former Bizarre guys to start up a smaller, cheaper studio or just relocate them to Turn 10. Buying a 200 person studio just to have them consult or work on a 1/2 a game makes no sense.

You make good points, I see what you're saying now. I'm just not tuned to the concept of selectively hiring developers from this fallen studio.

I really do hope all of the Bizarre employees find their way to other work though. And that hopefully they end up making PGR5.

 

[Visualante]

Hate to say it, but I called it. This is what happens when you bed with a money making machine like Activision.

 

[Haunted]

:sadface

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I'll save someone else the minimal mental effort:

NINTENDO SHOULD BUY THEM~! YAY!@

....


yeah?


maybe?

Have them make the next Mario Kart!

 

[dark10x]

What was this 'good shot' you're referring to? And no, making a good game isn't the same as making a game capable of creating a big franchise. Anything else?

...and that's the reality of todays game business. You're right, they couldn't cut it.

They made great games, and nobody gave a shit. That fucking sucks.

I can't deny that what Activision has done makes business sense, but damn it, this was a talented studio. Activision surely could have found a good way to put them to use. Treyarch was not exactly a studio brimming with talent, but they've certainly made them into a powerhouse haven't they?

Do you think this same situation would have occurred with most other publishers? This seems to happen much more often with Activision than any other publisher. Developer A creates a great game, Activision does not provide proper marketing support, game fails, Developer A is closed.

 

[Hypereides]

At this rate Im afraid Raven is probably next on the list... singularity and wolfenstein didnt reflect confident sales despite being above average, well at least in Singularity's case.

Activision pours its huge marketing cash load only into COD which really makes all their other games seem insignificant.

Its a shame competent devs like BC had to go under

 

[Haunted]

I admit to not being fully aware of Bizarre's library of games, but wasn't it more than one bomb? I mean, people have alluded to as many as three or four in succession in this thread.

Bizzare's output this generation:

• Project Gotham Racing 3
• Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved
• Boom Boom Rocket
• Project Gotham Racing 4
• Geometry Wars: Galaxies
• The Club
• Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
• Geometry Wars: Touch
• Blur
• James Bond 007: Blood Stone

One turd some decents and a number of great quality games.

Sad to see them go like that.

 

[Vinci]

Bizzare's output this generation:

• Project Gotham Racing 3
• Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved
• Boom Boom Rocket
• Project Gotham Racing 4
• Geometry Wars: Galaxies
• The Club
• Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
• Geometry Wars: Touch
• Blur
• James Bond 007: Blood Stone
  
  

And I take it James Bond, Blur, and The Club performed poorly, right?

 

[Kai Dracon]

Re: PGR4 and MS killing the game

Wasn't there some kiss and tell talk last year from a former Bizarre employee (or similar) that asserted this scenario? -> MS only cares about pushing 360 hardware to show installed userbase numbers and tried to push Bizarre to send out PGR4 over six months before it was really done - because they wanted to focus on a Forza 2 console promotion, deciding PGR was unimportant. Bizarre refused. MS gets their revenge by dropping any real attempt at pushing PGR4, and releasing it just after Halo 3 entirely on purpose rather than something such as August that year.

Frankly, I had the distinct impression at the time that MS wanted PGR4 to go away. It was all about Forza as they decided that would be their Halo on Wheels and everything else could burn.

 

[Benjamin1981]

What a bummer. I loved PGR 2 back in the day. Played probably 3000 hours of it. The in game clock stopped working at 999 hours. Imo the greatest racing game of all time. PGR 3 was kinda disappointing but PGR4 was right up there quality wise with PGR2. Blur was great too.

Hopefully they all land on their and get to do another PGR for MS.

 

[Nirolak]

And I take it James Bond, Blur, and The Club performed poorly, right?

And PGR4.

Re: PGR4 and MS killing the game

Wasn't there some kiss and tell talk last year from a former Bizarre employee (or similar) that asserted this scenario? -> MS only cares about pushing 360 hardware to show installed userbase numbers and tried to push Bizarre to send out PGR4 over six months before it was really done - because they wanted to focus on a Forza 2 console promotion, deciding PGR was unimportant. Bizarre refused. MS gets their revenge by dropping any real attempt at pushing PGR4, and releasing it just after Halo 3 entirely on purpose rather than something such as August that year.

Frankly, I had the distinct impression at the time that MS wanted PGR4 to go away. It was all about Forza as they decided that would be their Halo on Wheels and everything else could burn.

Microsoft tried to send out PGR4 six weeks early to avoid Halo 3.

Bizarre refused, said Microsoft was being too corporate, and then sold out to Activision.

I can understand wanting to bail out on Microsoft, but the Activision part I don't get. It seems they wanted the large payout and believed Activision's statements about how independent studios were, and now this is their fate.

 

[Witchfinder General]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Bizarre was one of my favourite developers. Blur remains my favourite game of this year and one of the best racing games ever made along with the PGR series.


Fuck.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Damn sad, one of the best developers this industry has to offer. At least we can still hold out hope that the studio might be sold, rather than dismantled.

They probably won't want to sell to Sony or MS considering that they wanted to publish multiplatform (and of course they wouldn't want to go with Nintendo, who in turn wouldn't want them)

So that leaves EA, Ubisoft or THQ really (with Square Enix or Namco as a long shot)

 

[Tobor]

When are publishers going to wake up and stop trying to sell every retail game at $59.99? Its unsustainable.

 

[doctordoak]

Heads up Bungie...

 

[Haunted]

And I take it James Bond, Blur, and The Club performed poorly, right?

I think PGR4 was the beginning of the end. A big budget, critically acclaimed game that completely bombed. Causing cracks in their partnership with MS because of deadline and release date disagreements.

The Club (with SEGA) performed poorly, but it was a smaller scale project - more on the side - so it didn't hurt as much. Still, you can tell they felt they had to fall back on their previously successful and "safe" IP Geometry Wars after this.

Then came Activision, and both Blur and Bloodstone were big games which never really arrived in the marketplace.


Great quality and past successes count for shit in this industry if you have one too many bombas.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

What was this 'good shot' you're referring to? And no, making a good game isn't the same as making a game capable of creating a big franchise. Anything else?

A large marketing push,
Integration of popular trends(Leveling up,Perks)
A fresh take on a popular genre,
A Known dev and publisher.

Just because it did fail doesn't mean theres some easy to see single reason.

 

[Poyunch]

Heads up Bungie...

Except Activision doesn't own Bungie.

 

[EmSeta]

When are publishers going to wake up and stop trying to sell every retail game at $59.99? Its unsustainable.

I was just thinking the same thing. And you should see the prices in some of the European countries...