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Activision Closes Budcat; Bizarre Closing On Friday, February 18th
- Thread starter KennyLinder
- Start date
LordPhoque
Banned
Kittonwy said:
Your new tag fits you well.
Anyway, where is Firewire now ? :lol
StealthGoblin
Banned
Shard said:
Exactly, beggars can't afford to be choosers. Its either be sold or not survive.
Its true that the management team at Microsoft Games Studios has changed, but I would argue that their management of IP has actually got worse.
Badly undermarketed Alan Wake (Happened with PGR4 too)
Rushed Crackdown 2 out of the door (Tried to make PGR4 rush out the door too)
Destroyed RARE (They'd definitely ask the PGR5 developer to put in Kinect controls)
Closed down Ensemble
If they had a say in their own destiny, I think they'd not go to Microsoft.
Sadly for Bizarre, they have no choice.
LordPhoque
Banned
Galvanise_ said:
You're picking your examples very carefully... and about Alan Wake, the only reason it bombed (did it ?) is because it was sent to die against RDR... which wasn't planned at this date in the first place. And they are apparently funding a sequel for Alan Wake.
They did very well with a lot or other exlcusives that wouldn't have been so successful without their huge marketing.
As far as Bizarre is concerned, your post is pure speculation. Personally I don't think they would feel bad about working on PGR again. At least I hope so, I want my PGR5 to be even better than 4.
A) Recent listings on Remedy's site say there might be a sequal coming.Galvanise_ said:
B) I see Crackdown 2 as a test product for Ruffian. Rumours where flooting around that Crackdown 1.5 was it orginal name (It should have been like a ''repack/relaunch'' kind of thing)
C) Rare has been the biggest part of MGS tools wise and tech wise.
D) Ensemble was closed because of certain aspects, one of them was that its was primairly a RTS studio and it never specialized in other genres (Something MS wanted because it was a 200 man studio). MGS has gone on to work with Robot on the AeO franchise.
Warm Machine
Member
Whoever buys Bizarre will want the Geo Wars IP. It prints money for the cost of the game's development. The rest is tools, tech, and knowhow combined with the people.
StealthGoblin
Banned
TheOddOne said:
- That doesn't mean Alan Wake didn't do as well as it should have. Microsoft didn't market it well enough. Even if it was going up against RDR. . .thats Microsofts fault too.
- It has still damaged the IP. They rushed the game out of the door.
- While true, they destroyed and reformed its entire development culture. For a company that wants to retain a sense of independence and its own development culture. . .that wouldn't be good for Bizarre.
- They had an MMO in development and Ensemble was one of their most successful studios. If Microsoft actually bothered to put money into PC games development, Ensemble would have been a large asset. Again, it was Microsoft effectively abandoning the PC gaming arena development-wise that caused this problem.
They'd also fall under the command of the batshit insane Peter 'Hyperbole' Molyneux, which does sound fun, but it would have its drawbacks.
_____
All of the above doesn't include that the other probable suitors (EA, Ubisoft, Zenimax) have their own problems too.
Every publisher (including almighty Sony) has flops on its hands. What's your point, really? People want MS to buy Bizarre because they want PGR series back in the original hands. Is it likely? Who knows what's going on behind close doors. Random ramblings on their failures won't change that.
I agree with most of your points but the last one isn't very well thought out.Galvanise_ said:
For Microsofts perspective, how they gonna pay a 200 man studio that only focuses on RTS and never specialized other genres? They did not release games regularly, thats a shame for studio that had 2 to 3 teams working. Thats a huge sinking hole, search the web from some ex-emsemble people that even said this.
I think buying Bizarre is gonna be a big mistake for MS. These guys, bless them they got talent for racing games, have not created other ''good'' quality games in other genres. It might sound harse, but what if they did make the new PGR and it flopped. What use would these guys be? They would be in the same position again. Closure.
StealthGoblin
Banned
szaromir said:
Someone mentioned that Microsofts management has changed, I was just saying that I think their management of IP has got worse since Bizarre went to Activision.
Bizarre already had 'Beef' with Microsoft, so my point was that going to a company they have beef with that still mismanages IP wouldn't be ideal for them.
They can't afford to choose, however.
Nothing malicious in my post, just commenting that it wouldn't be ideal for Bizarre.
BishopLamont
Banned
Sad to hear but I'm not the least bit surprised, the writing was on the wall. Such a sad state we are in.
StealthGoblin
Banned
TheOddOne said:
Should have managed the wages/no. of employees better. Cut the number of staff if they aren't producing enough games to meet the cost demands. Sony did this with Studio Liverpool, instead of just closing down the entire place.
It wouldn't be ideal for Bizarre as it's a multiplatform studio now and acquisition by MS means downsizing. Activision already mishandled Bizarre's releases so I don't know how MS could be any worse at this point. With MS they could smoothly transition to PGR5, which is a big plus.Galvanise_ said:
As for the 'beef' with MS, it happened 3 years ago and completely ignores 3 previous PGR games, with PGR2&3 being very successful commercially.
StealthGoblin
Banned
TheOddOne said:
And how is that comforting to a team of 200 developers like Bizarre? Microsoft have demonstrated that they have no qualms in closing down studios and outsourcing the project.
I agree it makes financial sense for Microsoft, but the management team at Bizarre and even the regular joe developers would look at the words 'Job Security' and frown.
Out of interest, how much do we think Bizarre would go for? I have no idea of their worth in todays market. I imagine the flops would have dented the value.
It seems MS can't do no right. Sony mishandles their studios/releases and downsizes studios and turns out to be a wonderful, carefing corporation, MS mishandles their studios/releases and shuts their studios down, helps the employees set up new studio (Robot Entertainment) and contracts it to do DLC and a new game and turns out to be a terrible, merciless corporation. SMH
Trunchisholm
Member
People focus too much on MS's mishandling of the PGR4 release, but conveniently forgot that, had it not been for Microsoft, the previous releases wouldn't have been so successful.
PGR2 launched the Xbox Live service, while PGR3 benefited immensely as well from being a 360 launch title. Geometry Wars was also the title selected by MS to launch the Xbox Live Arcade platform. Honestly, BC owe much of their success to the support they've received from MS along the years. Sure, Microsoft is to blame for pitting PGR4 against Halo 3, but, by the same token, we could blame Sega for the way they handled The Club.
The fact that PGR4 didn't sell as much as previous installments of the series has as much to do with marketing and commercial strategy reasons as with franchise fatigue. PGR4 was a polished, yet sublimely polished, version of PGR3, with bikes, weather, a few new cities, and an improved handling model. For many who bought PGR3, unfortunately, that was hardly enough to justify buying it.
In any case, getting a new PGR developed by Bizarre, or whatever there might be left of the studio after this, would be fantastic news given the circumstances. I wish all the people at Bizarre the best.
PGR2 launched the Xbox Live service, while PGR3 benefited immensely as well from being a 360 launch title. Geometry Wars was also the title selected by MS to launch the Xbox Live Arcade platform. Honestly, BC owe much of their success to the support they've received from MS along the years. Sure, Microsoft is to blame for pitting PGR4 against Halo 3, but, by the same token, we could blame Sega for the way they handled The Club.
The fact that PGR4 didn't sell as much as previous installments of the series has as much to do with marketing and commercial strategy reasons as with franchise fatigue. PGR4 was a polished, yet sublimely polished, version of PGR3, with bikes, weather, a few new cities, and an improved handling model. For many who bought PGR3, unfortunately, that was hardly enough to justify buying it.
In any case, getting a new PGR developed by Bizarre, or whatever there might be left of the studio after this, would be fantastic news given the circumstances. I wish all the people at Bizarre the best.
StealthGoblin
Banned
szaromir said:
Nobody has said Sony haven't fucked up. I've been SMH over some of the things they've done too.
I would state however, that developers seem much more content working with Sony. Jobe, Jaffe, Evans, Cage etc enjoy working with them.
Trunchisholm
Member
[Nintex] said:
I guess that selling them at a bargain price is always better than simply closing the studio and getting nothing in the process.
StealthGoblin
Banned
szaromir said:
Deliberately dense. Nice.
My point is that a lot more developers seem happier at Sony and get more free reign over what they do. Ueda, Kaz, Media Molecule, Cage etc got all the time they needed to perfect their games.
You don't get that vibe from what they say? I've read dozens of interviews where they say (without being nudged) how happy they are with their relationship with Sony.
All developers want to have a happy relationship with their publishers.
Bizarre had a bad one over PGR4 after good ones with the other PGR games, and then a dodgy one with Activision.
Wherever they do go, I hope things are better for them.
For the record, I want them to go to Microsoft. My point is that it might not be ideal for Bizarre.
LordPhoque
Banned
Galvanise_ said:
From my personal experience with LBP and HR I wouldn't say they are polished games.
And Bizarre's problem with MS had nothing to do with polish... they sent PGR4 to die, that's a different matter. This had nothing to do with what you are talking about.
Galvanise_ said:
It's not until after contract obligations are over that whining about the relationship begins. Until then everyone under the Sun is happy about their employer/contractor.
Microsoft does have a tendency to rush their games, particularly when big franchise and Holiday season are involved (Fable 3), still they give all thetime in the world to some games (Alan Wake).
Warm Machine
Member
Galvanise_ said:
As a counterpoint, ask the folks who got canned at Sony Liverpool not long ago what they think of Sony.
Some devs are happy with their current situation with Nintendo, Sony, MS or whoever. Others are not. I don't think you can make any generalization. Only the people actively at those places know how much freedom vs. expectations vs. politics there are.
Trunchisholm
Member
Galvanise_ said:
Well, those are purely subjective impressions based on anecdotal evidence.
At this point, they're past ideal. It's all about minimizing the damage now, and it seems to be that the best bet they have is working for MS again, either as a first or a second party.
Actually MS wanted to push PGR4 forward a couple of weeks to launch it before Halo 3. BC didn't agree because they wouldn't polish the game enough. On one hand we got a very polished experience, on the other we were all busy with H3 at the time and very few bought PGR4. They definitely should have released it 2-3 weeks later. I think the fact that Bizarre was already Activision's property at the time didn't help either.LordPhoque said:
Oh my goodness.TheOddOne said:
Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
I mean, a bunch of posters in this thread gave some pretty good reasons why MS or anyone wouldn't be interested in buying Bizarre but, multiple potential interests?
Please, for the love of everything that is holy, Microsoft, buy Bizarre and get them on PGR5 ASAP.
Trunchisholm
Member
szaromir said:
That was really tough decision to make. Delaying it would have been quite difficult, taking into account how many big games came out at the end of 2007. It clear now that MS made the wrong call, but they must have realised that by now seeing that they want to bring the franchise back.
Activision Dissolves Blizzard Entertainment, Absorbs Key Staff
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Nov. 17, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Despite showing some of the company's strongest-selling franchises, it has been determined in the best interest of Activision Publishing, Inc. (NASDAQ: ATVI) to dissolve the partnership with Blizzard, shut down the beloved studio, and take on any further development of their key properties in-house.
"It takes a lot of money to run a studio like Blizzard," said Activision CEO Robert Kotick, "The electrical costs of maintaining the company's campus alone was through the roof! And then there was the sky-rocketing cost of soda and snack goods consumed by an ever-increasing number of support staff. Existing World of Warcraft and StarCraft II players shouldn't worry, though, as they will have access to our new, completely automated customer service system."
Mr. Kotick emphasized that, "Although Blizzard has been very good to us, they fell short of our World of Warcraft: Cataclysm pre-sale goal by about 5,000 copies. Management figured it was a good time to access the loophole I built into our contract, and I think that investors will be happy with our decision."
Activision will not only be absorbing the rights to the company's famous franchises, they will also keep several key staff on board. "While it is financially impossible to accommodate everyone who will be losing their jobs in the process," said Brian Kelly, Co-Chairman of Activision, "we have reached out to one individual, in particular: Chris Metzen. He will be doing all further voice work for Activision-published games, himself, which benefits us since we won't have to pay any other actors."
Activision promises to maintain Blizzard's work as long as it makes economic sense to do so. World of Warcraft and StarCraft II will be moved onto a system of private servers which individual players can operate -- part of an exclusive deal with GameServers.com. Both titles will be retrofit with the Call of Duty series' netcode to reduce costs overall, and to "ensure a fair playing field."
Development of further projects, including the much-anticipated Diablo III, has been put on indefinite hold. Robert Kotick had the following to say about the decision, "People may be wondering what we're going to do with all of those assets. Well, I don't want to give to much away, but let's say that you might see a certain 'Warchief' or 'Demon Hunter' as DLC characters in Modern Warfare 3."
All Blizzard staff is expected to be off-premises of the company's Irvine, CA headquarters by 11/19. The entire structure will be burnt to the ground the following morning, followed by a ceremonial pissing on the ashes.
About Activision Publishing, Inc.
Headquartered in Santa Monica, California, Activision Publishing, Inc. is a leading worldwide developer, publisher and distributor of interactive entertainment and leisure products.
Activision maintains operations in the U.S., Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia, South Korea, China and the region of Taiwan. More information about Activision and its products can be found on the company's website, www.activision.com.
Call of Duty and Activision are registered trademarks of Activision Publishing, Inc. All other trademarks and trade names are the properties of their respective own-- I mean, also Activision.
SOURCE Activision Publishing, Inc.
About Blizzard Entertainment
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Nov. 17, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Despite showing some of the company's strongest-selling franchises, it has been determined in the best interest of Activision Publishing, Inc. (NASDAQ: ATVI) to dissolve the partnership with Blizzard, shut down the beloved studio, and take on any further development of their key properties in-house.
"It takes a lot of money to run a studio like Blizzard," said Activision CEO Robert Kotick, "The electrical costs of maintaining the company's campus alone was through the roof! And then there was the sky-rocketing cost of soda and snack goods consumed by an ever-increasing number of support staff. Existing World of Warcraft and StarCraft II players shouldn't worry, though, as they will have access to our new, completely automated customer service system."
Mr. Kotick emphasized that, "Although Blizzard has been very good to us, they fell short of our World of Warcraft: Cataclysm pre-sale goal by about 5,000 copies. Management figured it was a good time to access the loophole I built into our contract, and I think that investors will be happy with our decision."
Activision will not only be absorbing the rights to the company's famous franchises, they will also keep several key staff on board. "While it is financially impossible to accommodate everyone who will be losing their jobs in the process," said Brian Kelly, Co-Chairman of Activision, "we have reached out to one individual, in particular: Chris Metzen. He will be doing all further voice work for Activision-published games, himself, which benefits us since we won't have to pay any other actors."
Activision promises to maintain Blizzard's work as long as it makes economic sense to do so. World of Warcraft and StarCraft II will be moved onto a system of private servers which individual players can operate -- part of an exclusive deal with GameServers.com. Both titles will be retrofit with the Call of Duty series' netcode to reduce costs overall, and to "ensure a fair playing field."
Development of further projects, including the much-anticipated Diablo III, has been put on indefinite hold. Robert Kotick had the following to say about the decision, "People may be wondering what we're going to do with all of those assets. Well, I don't want to give to much away, but let's say that you might see a certain 'Warchief' or 'Demon Hunter' as DLC characters in Modern Warfare 3."
All Blizzard staff is expected to be off-premises of the company's Irvine, CA headquarters by 11/19. The entire structure will be burnt to the ground the following morning, followed by a ceremonial pissing on the ashes.
About Activision Publishing, Inc.
Headquartered in Santa Monica, California, Activision Publishing, Inc. is a leading worldwide developer, publisher and distributor of interactive entertainment and leisure products.
Activision maintains operations in the U.S., Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia, South Korea, China and the region of Taiwan. More information about Activision and its products can be found on the company's website, www.activision.com.
Call of Duty and Activision are registered trademarks of Activision Publishing, Inc. All other trademarks and trade names are the properties of their respective own-- I mean, also Activision.
SOURCE Activision Publishing, Inc.
About Blizzard Entertainment
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I guess I will never be a big time game publishing CEO, because the mindset of someone like Kotick is so completely alien to me.
According to what I perceive to be logic, you purchase a studio for either the talent, their IP, or both. As the purchaser/publisher you're making a substantial investment in acquiring the studio, funding their production costs, and marketing their titles.
So let's say a title does not sell as well as expected.
In a logical world, you take a step back, analyze the situation, identify the shortcomings, possibly make some internal changes (that doesn't mean FIRE EVERYTHING, Bobby), and then move forward with the next project.
On Planet Activision, an unsuccessful release means gutting the marketing budgets of all subsequent releases, shutting the studio down, and trashing a valuable brand, thus making it worthless.
HOW, in any way, is that logical? I don't understand how that makes financial sense, business sense, whatever. You invest a huge amount of money into something and when it doesn't immediately pay off, you KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE! That's... it's crazy.
According to what I perceive to be logic, you purchase a studio for either the talent, their IP, or both. As the purchaser/publisher you're making a substantial investment in acquiring the studio, funding their production costs, and marketing their titles.
So let's say a title does not sell as well as expected.
In a logical world, you take a step back, analyze the situation, identify the shortcomings, possibly make some internal changes (that doesn't mean FIRE EVERYTHING, Bobby), and then move forward with the next project.
On Planet Activision, an unsuccessful release means gutting the marketing budgets of all subsequent releases, shutting the studio down, and trashing a valuable brand, thus making it worthless.
HOW, in any way, is that logical? I don't understand how that makes financial sense, business sense, whatever. You invest a huge amount of money into something and when it doesn't immediately pay off, you KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE! That's... it's crazy.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
Come on Microsoft, bring them home! 
I'd like to see Bizarre put to work on PGR again, as well as having a dedicated Arcade game team. Obviously Geo Wars is a great example of what they can do for the service, but when I look at other stuff they've done this generation I can't help but feel if the production values/budgets were scaled back they'd have had some brilliant Arcadey games on their hands. The Club was great fun, but the concept was much more befitting of a 1200pt release as opposed to a £40 retail game, and I'd argue the same could be said for Blur in some respects.
I had a bad feeling when Activision took them over, but I didn't think it would end this badly and this quickly. Such a shame.
I'd like to see Bizarre put to work on PGR again, as well as having a dedicated Arcade game team. Obviously Geo Wars is a great example of what they can do for the service, but when I look at other stuff they've done this generation I can't help but feel if the production values/budgets were scaled back they'd have had some brilliant Arcadey games on their hands. The Club was great fun, but the concept was much more befitting of a 1200pt release as opposed to a £40 retail game, and I'd argue the same could be said for Blur in some respects.
I had a bad feeling when Activision took them over, but I didn't think it would end this badly and this quickly. Such a shame.
FStop7 said:
When Blur didn't sell well, what could they have done with Bizarre? They tried to get Bizarre to expand their wheelhouse and work on a Bond game, but then the Bond movie fell apart so marketing-wise they were fucked, and the end product just wasn't all that good in which case you can't even blame the marketing.
Basically you're stuck with a studio who are good at making arcade racing games that don't really sell and nothing else aside from Geometry Wars, which doesn't require that big a studio. They can probably absorb the Geometry Wars team and lose the rest of the studio, I'm not seeing a bright future for Bizarre even if they survive this.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Galvanise_ said:
I said that and I don't really agree with you.
First of all, the main reason they tried to rush PGR4 was because they wanted to give it a fighting chance against Halo 3. If Microsoft had it their way, PGR4 would have launched a whole month before Halo 3, this way it came out a week after Bungie's 10-ton gorilla.
Alan Wake didn't do as well as everyone expected, at least initially, but I'm not sure if it was because of lack of marketing. I do however think that the marketing was misjudged and the Bright Falls episodes probably should have been abandoned for a more traditional approach (although I'm not sure anything but a significant delay would have helped it against RDR). Still, Microsoft obviously cares about keeping the IP alive. Making Alan Wake a part of the holiday bundle clearly shows that.
Crackdown 2 was rushed, no doubt about it. Prior to the game's announcement, there were rumors about a stopgap Crackdown 1.5 release, but then someone decided to present it as a true sequel. That was a mistake, I'll give you that.
I don't agree about Rare being destroyed, although I'm probably in minority here. The company was restructured only after their five big retail releases failed to connect with the 360 audience. I'd argue that it was the right thing to do; Kinect Sports turned out to be one of the better reviewed Kinect games, and going by anecdotal evidence, it seems to be selling rather well. Personally, I'm very excited about Rare's future.
As for Ensemble, as cruel it may sound, shutting them down was probably the correct business decision. Plenty has already been said on the topic so I'll just add that things seem to have worked out for everyone. Several new developers have arisen from Ensemble's ashes and one of them is working on continuing the Age of Empires series.
So I don't think things are as bleak as you're trying to paint them. But of course, Bizarre will have to think hard and weigh all the options before they decide whether to become a part of the MGS family (although I suppose it's not entirely up to them).
In short, investors want quick solutions that bring immediate results to every arising problem. That's a cynical world, but that's how it is.FStop7 said:
Whoever purchases Bizarre will fire some people. The optimal situation for MS would be if Activision did close the studio, then they would help some of the employees set up a new one and give them contract for PGR5. That way they can have PGR5 in solid hands and at the same time drop it like a rock without any consequences in case it bombs. Although it might be a slow process, perhaps too slow if MS wants PGR5 ready for Christmas 2012.
FStop7 said:
Given Activision and other publishers are public, combined with the fact senior executives are incented with stock options, the current share price is the most important thing. Current share price is predominantly dictated by your quarterly earnings reports and whether or not companies achieve their projections. Under such "pressure" publishers don't have time to make long term project investments (though acquisition events themselves add value), so the short term solution in this sort of case is to dramatically cut costs so you can still hit your numbers. Activision revenues are lower than expectations, so the 'only' response they have to maintain their share price or minimise negative impact is to cut costs.
That was one of the main reasons for the massive layoffs during Q4 2008 and early 2009. Publisher share prices were slashed in the credit crunch because of general losses in the market. Despite increasing industry revenues and sensible investments being required, publishers responded by cancelling projects and laying off staff to decrease short term costs.
This is one of the biggest problems for the quality of games today. It is a huge part of why publishers are unwilling to make long term or new IP investments, why they make release decisions based on quarterly reporting not the quality/status of a game project, why budgets and development times are being slashed, why publishers have had huge holes in their portfolios this year (and lower revenues as a result, vicious cycle) etc.