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After seeing how amazing sony's games looked at E3 i'm wishing Neo gets upgraded
- Thread starter ninjablade
- Start date
They seem to have a very clear idea of what they want with PS4 Neo, That is the better news for me to me since it is a novelty in the console space to release updated hardware (New 3DS maybe too) so they have to be careful with the product (compatibility and pricing) and the message(not leaving customers behind and such).
It seems an easier transition than the jump Scorpio is doing (more power and in late 2017).
Even if it isn't a success i can see them still dominating the console space for a while until ps5 is released, if it ever exists
It seems an easier transition than the jump Scorpio is doing (more power and in late 2017).
Even if it isn't a success i can see them still dominating the console space for a while until ps5 is released, if it ever exists
so there is still a chance for a upgrade?
i'm reading the translation, and the mention competing with PC, then they must upgrade or this just becomes a bad joke.
Hardly. The calibre of GPU is enough, for example, to take a game like Battlefront at 900p on standard PS4 ('low-high settings' depending on the map) to PC ultra settings at 1080p/60. This is the kind of intention of Neo, to better keep up (I think) at 1080p with what's available on PC, with some 4K stuff, and then general 4K media playback. It's not intended to blow away the PC high-end, but simply to raise things up to better compare vs a standard PS4.
geordiemp
Member
Nah, I have a Panny 55 inch 4 K, the upscaling is superb and looks better than my Sony 905 1080 hangiing next to it.
I play all games at 1080 on a 4K set and side by side comparison with the best rated 1080p Sony set it looks great.
In fact, sitting 8 ft away, I really cannot see the point of 4K, will need to get some special glasses so I can zoom in on those pixels lol
I don't see why Naughty Dog couldn't release a patch for the Neo.
The ps4 manages a pretty solid 30fps in single player, and the Neo is supposedly a significant increase in power.
If we were talking 4k then obviously not, a 980ti and even 1080 aren't able to max every game at 60fps at 4k, so there's ZERO chance the PS4 and equivalent Xbox will.
Salz01
Member
Let's do it. Having a 'slight' increase in performance / graphics; isn't going to cut it. Because once people get this new Neo thing, and Xbox releases 4K Scorpio, people will bitch.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It's just not possible for a machine releasing end of this year, beyond some minor alterations.
Microsoft will be using a largely different (and newer) setup and that's why it's hol 2017.
The Neo will be fine anyway. It will be a good improvement over PS4 and not a million miles behind the Scorpio.
Microsoft will be using a largely different (and newer) setup and that's why it's hol 2017.
The Neo will be fine anyway. It will be a good improvement over PS4 and not a million miles behind the Scorpio.
geordiemp
Member
Sony first party will sure offer Neo mode and will probably do it for all first party games to help sell Neo. UC4 multiplayer is 60, so UC4 would be most likely.
Witcher 3 is supported heavily by CPDR, one of the best developers for post support to their customers, and they know a thing or 2 about PC options. Again, if any third party dev was to update an older game, its CPDR.
However, I would doubt Neo with only a 30 % better CPU clock, could run Witcher at 60 even if CPDR wanted to.
Frostbite 900p60 games will go to 1080p60 easily imo, so there is those games, and as they are dynamic scaling maybe will just do it naturally.
Okay, so it wasn't just me. I don't remember it playing like that on the PS3.
Why would they? Scorpio level spec isn't going to get you 4K/60 PS4 games either, and it's coming perhaps a year later. As is, on the GPU side, Neo is 2-3x bump over PS4, or a 3-4x bump over XB1. On the GPU side I wouldn't call it 'slight' and it's coming this year (I guess). For 1080p targets, which I think will be a lot more relevant for the next couple of years, this is a good jump up.
This isn't an either/or, anyway. That 4k/60 bump can come in 2019, for example, when it's more feasible.
dont know about uncharted but witcher isnt even solid 30 on ps4 ...
Well. A CPU upgrade was into consideration and not decided yet, at least when initial leaks were revealed... in fact the dilemma was pricing vs better CPU, the GPU seems to be in a decent spot for 1080p gaming (or even 1440p and then upscaled to 4K) unless they plan true 4K gaming.
499 with a better GPU or 399 upclocked Jaguar?
ninjablade
Banned
its not really keeping coming up though, a 3 teraflops PC with a good cpu is still better at running games thirdparty then a ps4k. cpu is the main problem for ps4, and will still be a problem for ps4k, especially with all the open world games coming out.
When Scorpio arrives I'll probably switch to that from PS4 for the bulk of my gaming. Multi-platforms will be significantly improved with that kind of grunt and it has a more robust online infrastructure (although no group chat yet, boo). Unless the PS4K becomes vital to PSVR's experience or offers an almost essential bump over standard Playstation exclusives, I may skip it altogether so I might be inclined to agree with the OP a little.
That said, Sony have been very tight lipped about the whole thing so revisions might be the order of the day or we might see alternating power-leading .5 iterations between the two main contenders as a forward strategy. Who knows? I'd say both are in great position for a long time to come now from a hardware perspective and much more besides, unlike Nintendo who seem to be slipping by the way worryingly quickly. If any console needed a kick up the bum I'd say it was the NX if rumors are to be believed.
That said, Sony have been very tight lipped about the whole thing so revisions might be the order of the day or we might see alternating power-leading .5 iterations between the two main contenders as a forward strategy. Who knows? I'd say both are in great position for a long time to come now from a hardware perspective and much more besides, unlike Nintendo who seem to be slipping by the way worryingly quickly. If any console needed a kick up the bum I'd say it was the NX if rumors are to be believed.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Look, the bottom line is that no console is getting a desktop class CPU unless the GPU is paired back to compensate. Can't have everything. Even if Neo did get Zen cores it would more likely be the equivalent Laptop/Netbook versions.
This is all moot anyway re: Neo because it isn't a new console it is in the simplest terms a slim that due to timing (or may be it was the plan all along?) they got a "free" upgrade.
It is true we don't know the full specs yet so there could be some surprises still.
And I see myself as more Watson than Sherlock!
geordiemp
Member
Dear Watson, lets hope Sony chooses the red pill. The 36 CU GPU is such a low clock from the leaked specs..........
Exactly, I could only play it for a few hours, it sits in my backlog just waiting for a hardware bump......If any game needed a Frame rate improvement its Witcher 3.
Sad that I put a game on my backlog because of performance 2 years into a generation.
From a framerate point of view, the scope of improvement will indeed be limited in CPU games to the clock bump afforded by Neo. From an eyecandy point of view though, it should certainly compare a lot more favourably in that scenario than the standard PS4.
To get rid of popping in/ bad lod, bad af, get better lightning and shadows, guarantee a no dip 30 fps at least.
Omnistalgic
Member
I just hope they get slightly closer to 5TF, but generally, I just want games like what we saw at E3 running at higher framerates, if 2.5x more powerful is all devs need to do that, Im pretty much locked into Neo, definitely for my second PS4.
So one trade in to get Neo, and then well get a second one after price-drop for my wife.
Should be a good year, but Im hoping for a slight bump since many are saying its not a big enough increase for the tech now available. Go $499 Sony and give us a nice little monster.
So one trade in to get Neo, and then well get a second one after price-drop for my wife.
Should be a good year, but Im hoping for a slight bump since many are saying its not a big enough increase for the tech now available. Go $499 Sony and give us a nice little monster.
DustyVonEric
Member
I agree with the OP.
I do see why others might want a higher performance PS4, but I don't see why Sony needs a Neo unless both GPU and CPU gets a significant upgrade for minimal expense.
Really all Sony needs to do is focus on putting out great games and the base PS4 will continue to attract new players anyways regardless of power, including top graphics and performance-seeking PC gamers purchasing it as a side console to play the exclusives.
I didn't always feel like this. The wife already gave me permission to purchase a Neo when it releases. But after playing UC4 and seeing how great those upcoming games looked at Sony's E3, I'm not so sure I need one yet.
The Neo has already been confirmed by Sony though, so it will be interesting to see what changes it brings. Heck, I may 180 again and say Day 1!
I do see why others might want a higher performance PS4, but I don't see why Sony needs a Neo unless both GPU and CPU gets a significant upgrade for minimal expense.
Really all Sony needs to do is focus on putting out great games and the base PS4 will continue to attract new players anyways regardless of power, including top graphics and performance-seeking PC gamers purchasing it as a side console to play the exclusives.
I didn't always feel like this. The wife already gave me permission to purchase a Neo when it releases. But after playing UC4 and seeing how great those upcoming games looked at Sony's E3, I'm not so sure I need one yet.
The Neo has already been confirmed by Sony though, so it will be interesting to see what changes it brings. Heck, I may 180 again and say Day 1!
Have you even watched any native 4K content?
vpance
Member
Disagree, 60 FPS is easier to sell. Neo is supposed to be aimed at enthusiasts, so they know.
StereoVsn
Member
So what OP is saying that with all the amazing looking games on PS4, he wants PS4 NEO which is rumored to be I. The neighborhood of 3x as amazing in graphics as OG PS4 to be even more amazing.
OP also doesn't care that the said console walking sell jack shit at that $500-$600 price and that better upgrade is not going to be around till latter part of 2017 (hence Scorpio target release).
Think McFly, Think!
OP also doesn't care that the said console walking sell jack shit at that $500-$600 price and that better upgrade is not going to be around till latter part of 2017 (hence Scorpio target release).
Think McFly, Think!
I just hope Sony has a CPU in Neo that will facilitate 60fps. Even if the GPU isn't up to Scorpio's, which I doubt it will be, I feel like focusing on 60 would be a huge benefit and would serve the enthusiast market that they're focusing on with this device. HDR is already a huge visual benefit without improving resolution and 1080p scales smoothly to 4k (I despise scaling artifacts) and 60fps would also be a benefit those that don't have 4k displays would be able to appreciate.
I also think it would be an easier task for developers. They can focus on making the standard console version be a solid and attractive 30fps so that it's still playable and viable and have the 60fps version for the power users who would purchase a new console. Even with a 4.2tf GPU, there's enough headroom to even improve visuals further at 60. I think it would be the best usage of the resources but it all depends on if the CPU is up to the task. I doubt native 4k would be viable even if it had a 6tflop GPU.
I also think it would be an easier task for developers. They can focus on making the standard console version be a solid and attractive 30fps so that it's still playable and viable and have the 60fps version for the power users who would purchase a new console. Even with a 4.2tf GPU, there's enough headroom to even improve visuals further at 60. I think it would be the best usage of the resources but it all depends on if the CPU is up to the task. I doubt native 4k would be viable even if it had a 6tflop GPU.
I'm actually thinking that if both neo and Scorpio focus on 4K then I'll skip them until I eventually upgrade to a 4ktv. Even as a tech fan that has a tendency to upgrade more often than necessary I'm still very happy with my 1080p set. Maybe once HDR shakes out and now 4K streaming and UHD bluray is coming is about time to upgrade though.
I think you'll be disappointed. The move towards 4K means that the current APUs will need even more disproportionate area given over to GPU cores, and CPU is likely to be second priority. Maybe for trinity
Also, even if they did put in enough CPU, I think a lot of devs would use it on more detailed worlds at 30fps.
I think you'll be disappointed. The move towards 4K means that the current APUs will need even more disproportionate area given over to GPU cores, and CPU is likely to be second priority. Maybe for trinity
Also, even if they did put in enough CPU, I think a lot of devs would use it on more detailed worlds at 30fps.
I guess one could possibly hope that with extra GPU power in a CPU bound game, some extra CPU stuff could possibly be shunted off the CPU to GPU to relieve the CPU frame times. Of course this requires more dev intervention. But extra GPU power doesn't necessarily have to be useless wrt framerate in a CPU bound game if that can be done. First parties may be more inclined to investigate that approach, especially as GPGPU usage matures.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I guess this is the case. Doesn't the PS4 currently have 4CUs upgraded for GPGPU? If they go down the same route for Neo then 8CUs for that?
Like I said before there could be custom stuff Sony has added we don't know about too.
But isn't the reason for going 30 fps in the first place to max out the visual effects as much as possible?
I feel like they're already getting close to diminishing returns in that regard. The image quality of upcoming games looks pretty darn good because of that concession.
60 fps is a visual enhancement, and a gameplay one as well.
The Neo seems to be targeted at enthusiasts, more specifically to keep Sony users from leaving later in the gen for PC. What would those users value more? Better shadows, lighting, or aliasing, etc. or frame rate? I don't know, but I'd guess more of the latter.
I would wager more users look at games like God of War, Horizon, and Spider-Man and think wow, imagine playing that great looking game at 60 fps, than wow, imagine playing that great looking game with even better lighting or shadows.
vpance
Member
More detailed worlds is mostly a GPU, memory and bandwidth thing. Since the games still need to support OG consoles, I can see most devs leaving the CPU related tasks alone instead of scaling them up which would take more effort.
I think Sony knows this which is why they're deciding to go even more GPU slanted for Neo. They need to figure out if the cost of adding a CPU that would guarantee a bump to 60FPS for all games is worth it to the whichever market Neo is supposed to aimed at. I think it is, based on the expectations I've read on here.
dead monkey uk
Member
I enjoy a wide range of video games
That's not my expectation, just what I think would be the smartest way to go about the product for the market they're approaching with it.I think you'll be disappointed. The move towards 4K means that the current APUs will need even more disproportionate area given over to GPU cores, and CPU is likely to be second priority. Maybe for trinity
Also, even if they did put in enough CPU, I think a lot of devs would use it on more detailed worlds at 30fps.
...Scatter...
Banned
I remember it opposite. I played it at 30fps because the 60 fps seemed wonky to me.
OT: The Neo will be just fine. I'm sure Sony will ensure 1st party IPs come out sparkling. It will be my Sony exclusive machine while everything else goes to Scorpio.
Not at all for games like fall out 4 that are CPU intensive. Even the AMD A10 can hardly reach 40FPS. I doubt a over clocked jaguar is even as powerful as the A10. Even an I3 can't even hold 60FPS and that kills the Jaguar. I don't see any reason to get the NEO if it has Jaguar/Puma. Going to be to many 30FPS games thanks to the crappy CPU. They should wait till 2017 and drop the Zen into it which is rumored to be I5 levels.
http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2182-fallout-4-cpu-benchmark-huge-performance-difference
CloudyTuba
Member
I think upscaled 1080p content looks just fine on my 4k screen. Sure, it's never going to look great compared directly to native 4k content on the same screen, but it's still good.
There's variable upscaling performance depending on the TV/manufacturer so your experience may be worse than mine, but I think Sony would be developing their own internal upscaling method for games rather than relying on the tv to do it. That would ensure consistent output quality regardless of the TV's upscaling abilities.
They could also employ an additional sharpening filter to upscaled 1080p content. They would just have to be very careful not to be overbearing with it as the XB1 was once upon a time. The recently popular Doom employs a sharpening filter that most people don't realize (though I turned mine down a pinch on pc).
With their own base system upscaler and a well implemented sharpening filter, 1080p games would look fantastic at 4k and devs wouldnt need to handle it case by case.
Woudn't it be grand if the PS4k had an internal upscaler with user selectable scaling methods? I know. Dreaming too big.
This probably warrants its own thread.
At first I thought something similar, especially once Scorpio was unveiled, but then I realized it's almost pointless to wish for that unless you specifically want 4k gaming, which I can't imagine a lot of console owners do.
If the Neo at the current specs can do full 1080p with 60fps for all of its releases, I'd be extremely happy.
If the Neo at the current specs can do full 1080p with 60fps for all of its releases, I'd be extremely happy.
DarkConfidant
Member
My thoughts exactly! XD
"Wow, everything is already so great! I wish they were better..."
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
I think the specs look great and I don't want to wait any longer to finally get a PS4, besides its doubtful Sony has the cash to burn in order to make a system equivalent Scorpio at a price consumers can stomach.
To me Scorpio is a reaction from getting their asses handed to them the last 2 years, MS knows they should have some up with a superior system from day one(they had the money) and is now just tying to make up for it.
To me Scorpio is a reaction from getting their asses handed to them the last 2 years, MS knows they should have some up with a superior system from day one(they had the money) and is now just tying to make up for it.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think the point everyone is missing is that the vast majority of the time console CPUs are woefully underpowered, the 360 didn't even have out of order execution. Compared to what we've had, Jaguar is a step-up, so the overclocked Jaguars are a nice bump...and will likely help keep Neo in an advantageous price range.
RichiRamjag
Member
I'm pretty sure we'll see 60fps currently. God of War alone was pulling 30-40 on base hardware according to DF.
geordiemp
Member
Even if we say 30 % CPU gives double the performance in frames, 60 % improvement on 30-40 is close but not at a comfortable 60.