• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

WHY ALL THESE CGI ALIENS? Zero cred, artificals movements, they looked like straight from a video games. I hate how the xeno moved, and the camera work didn't helped. I can ultimately let every plot hole slide as long as I have a good looking creature wreaking havoc on the crew. But this one was lame. Practical>>>>>>>>>>CGI, forever!
 

jmdajr

Member
Saw it today, it was solid but a disappointment. Prometheus was flawed but it was at least ambitious and felt fresh and like it really opened up the Alien universe to new possibilities.
Covenant did it's best to close any and all doors that Prometheus opened and hurry back to just being about people getting killed one by one by facehuggers/chestbursters/xenos. There's still an interesting story with David, and they have a neat setup for a sequel with the way he's got a ship full of "test subjects" to do what he wants with, but it's not like the ending of Prometheus which left me really hyped for what could happen next.

Had trouble putting my feels into words, and this post did it.
 

Certinty

Member
Went in not expecting much, Prometheus at best was a decent movie.

But dear God, this was so much worse in almost every way. I actually can't believe the RT and MC scores this has. Story was crap and the first hour was so dead too.
 

Timu

Member
Just saw it.

Some things could had been better and I wish they went further with some of the things that happened, but overall I found it decent. Prometheus did some things better but Alien Covenant is a much better horror movie and the gore is nuts, easily the most violent movie in the series.

Characters really needed more development and some characters did questionable things, but nothing will be as bad as the guy touching the alien snake in Prometheus. Plus David was awesome, lol. This movie barely felt like Aliens at all, it's more of Alien and Prometheus and I'm fine with that.

So did I like it better than Prometheus? Like I said, as a horror movie I liked it better, but as a better movie overall, I'm not sure yet. But I found it better than Alien 3 and Resurrection and the AvP movies at least.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Really disappointed.

The worst part is that the garbage David story line and what he did to Shaw basically makes almost everything from Prometheus not matter, I won't be able to enjoy it anymore. Nobody in that movie actually made it out even though Shaw had a hopeful ending.

I'm going to have to pretend Covenant doesn't exist just like I pretend Alien 3 doesn't exist (what they did to Newt is even more unforgivable than Shaw and also makes Aliens not matter).
dbUgjcJ.gif
 
I just saw this in IMAX digital and could easily tell it was 2K on that big screen, came home and checked and sure enough it is. 858p letterboxed.

American Cinematographer said:
Final color correction was performed at Deluxe's Company 3 in Santa Monica, Calif., where colorist Stephen Nakamura worked with Blackmagic Design's DaVinci Resolve 12.5 to grade 2132x1374-resolution EXR files for a 2048x858 theatrical release

The movie? I didn't like it. :( Everything was telegraphed very early so I was never surprised and I don't like what it did to the Scott Alien universe. I'm pretty depressed.
 

- J - D -

Member
As someone who found David an annoying presence in Prometheus, I was disappointed that Alien Covenant is really all about him. And it really is all about him. He is the big picture. Everything else about the film, from the idiot space pilgrims to the xenos themselves, comprises the little picture.

I find both parts of this film problematic. I don't care about the overarching story, and the smaller one about the plight of the brain-dead crew ticks me off. This is 2017 can't we have a thriller about a team of smart space-faring people be thwarted by an even smarter being (or beings, as it were)? Or maybe just at least have them wear sealed suits with helmets when they are exploring terrains unknown. Am I asking too much?

I'm so frustrated. I don't care for anyone in this.

Fuck, I might have liked Prometheus more than this. At least there was some wonder and awe and mystery to that one.
 
JD you're right Alien Covenant isn't really about an Alien or about the Covenant. They're both just tools in David's game and the film is truly focused on him. It's telling the best parts of the film are when walter and david are interacting even if it gets into silly philosophical stuff.

It feels like Ridley scott wanted his cake and to eat it too with AC. He wanted to continue his finding/playing god story line from Prometheus, but he also felt compelled to throw in a dime a dozen alien plot because the fans were upset that prometheus wasn't a dime a dozen alien plot.

Alien Covenant is a better Alien film then Prometheus, but Prometheus at least embraced what it wanted to be a lot better then AC.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
JD you're right Alien Covenant isn't really about an Alien or about the Covenant. They're both just tools in David's game and the film is truly focused on him. It's telling the best parts of the film are when walter and david are interacting even if it gets into silly philosophical stuff.

It feels like Ridley scott wanted his cake and to eat it too with AC. He wanted to continue his finding/playing god story line from Prometheus, but he also felt compelled to throw in a dime a dozen alien plot because the fans were upset that prometheus wasn't a dime a dozen alien plot.

Alien Covenant is a better Alien film then Prometheus, but Prometheus at least embraced what it wanted to be a lot better then AC.

Did you really enjoy the goofy flute scene though? Incredibly awkward.
 

- J - D -

Member
JD you're right Alien Covenant isn't really about an Alien or about the Covenant. They're both just tools in David's game and the film is truly focused on him. It's telling the best parts of the film are when walter and david are interacting even if it gets into silly philosophical stuff.

It feels like Ridley scott wanted his cake and to eat it too with AC. He wanted to continue his finding/playing god story line from Prometheus, but he also felt compelled to throw in a dime a dozen alien plot because the fans were upset that prometheus wasn't a dime a dozen alien plot.

Alien Covenant is a better Alien film then Prometheus, but Prometheus at least embraced what it wanted to be a lot better then AC.

Yes I feel the same way about the Prometheus elements being shoehorned into an Alien film (or vice versa). In the best case scenario you'd have a film that feels like a natural evolution of the Alien mythology, with new elements gracefully woven in, but this isn't that. It's a messy film that I think fails to satisfy either half. At its worst I'd say the name of the movie is dishonest.

But, I suppose by virtue of it actually have an actual Xenomorph antagonist in it, by default I begrudgingly admit that Alien Covenant is a better Alien film than Prometheus for what little that's worth.
 
Did you really enjoy the goofy flute scene though? Incredibly awkward.

It fit with what we had seen from David in the opening of the film and with where the story was going for the two characters. The idea of David trying to get Walter on his side by showing him "look you can create too" made sense. It was even established at the start of the film when weyland chastized David for his music selection being odd without a symphony. The scene went on too long which is what made it awkward. Shave like a minute or two and you can get the same idea across without hurting the scene like the film did.
 

Nerrel

Member
I thought this film was soundly better than Prometheus and far and away the best sequel since Aliens. Yes, it still has dumb moments, but nothing as slap-you-in-the-face stupid as a scientist reaching out to an hostile looking alien worm hissing like a cobra. The dumb moments here aren't that far removed from the usual horror movie cliches even the old films had (like "I'm going in this dark area alone for a while"). The only part that came close to Prometheus levels of dumb was the captain following David into the egg cave, then staring into an egg. If he wasn't ready to shoot David after discovering that he's been engineering these things, he should have at least been prepared to blast the eggs on sight.

The film also doesn't bullshit nearly as much. Prometheus hinted at these mysteries that in retrospect it clearly had no real plans or answers for; there was no substance to any of that. Rewatching Prometheus wouldn't yield any revelations after this film; David's motivations are clearer, but that was already pretty well established. What we saw in that movie is all it was, and it seems like an even weaker film now that the sequel didn't bring anything forward other than David. Covenant is a self contained movie that gives you everything it wants to in its runtime; it doesn't lead you on with bullshit mysteries it doesn't intend to solve. For that alone it's a much stronger film. It also has a more decisive ending instead of just leaving it completely open again, while still keeping it vague enough for a sequel.

I also don't get the people saying this is just a retread of the Alien movies. It borrows elements from them, but of course it does; it's an Alien movie. It's got some similar scenarios, like another alien getting blown out the airlock, but it's not the same story. I didn't feel like the Xenomorphs were just there for fanservice either. The movie is using them in a different way.

My big complaint is that the characters are mostly weak. By the end, you still barely even know the people who are getting killed and most of them are a few lines away from being "extras." Prometheus had that too- the crew that took down the Engineer ship was barely a factor before that scene at all. Compared the the crew in the original or the marines in Aliens, where every death meant something to you because you knew or at least recognized the character, this is a major step down.

I think it's better than people are saying. It's not as good as the first two films, but who would possibly expect it to be. I went in with no feelings one way or the other , either as an Alien film or a Prometheus sequel, and it exceeded my expectations.

Really disappointed.

The worst part is that the garbage David story line and what he did to Shaw basically makes almost everything from Prometheus not matter, I won't be able to enjoy it anymore. Nobody in that movie actually made it out even though Shaw had a hopeful ending.

I'm going to have to pretend Covenant doesn't exist just like I pretend Alien 3 doesn't exist (what they did to Newt is even more unforgivable than Shaw and also makes Aliens not matter).
dbUgjcJ.gif

Shaw's fate was always a little iffy because David was clearly not on the level; he did kill her husband after all. It shouldn't have been expected that she would have been safe with him. Aliens was different because there was no reason to expect anything other than a happy ending; it felt like Ripley had earned her life back by facing her trauma, which made Alien 3 even more of a dick of a film for throwing that in the trash. And Shaw's death wasn't as meaningless as just "dying in a crash" arbitrarily, as if just to get her out of the film, which is what the deaths in Alien 3 felt like. She contributed a lot to David's character and sent the distress message that triggered the whole story.
 
Saw it again with my dad, he liked it but he's easy to please. It's crazy to think he's old enough to have seen the original Alien in theaters back in 79.

One thing that stuck out to me on the second viewing is how gory this movie is. Very metal.
 

Jofamo

Member
This franchise needs to stop killing off their main characters between films in spaceship crashes.



I know that's not what really happened in this film, but the effect is the same.
 

Z3M0G

Member
Seen it again a couple of days ago.

I'm OK (now) that David created some type of perfect organism. However, this contradicts what has been stated in Alien. Right now, Covenant takes place about 10 years (iirc) before Alien. Meaning the Space Jockey we see in Alien is pretty young, despite them claiming it is thousands of years old and being fossilised.

David landing on LV-426 isn't going to happen unless he hijacks another Engineer ship.

Which, in turn, makes me believe that David is trying to replicate the Engineer's work in creating the perfect organism, the Xenomorph. He's working with the tools he has at the moment. He killed off all the engineers (to show them how mighty he was) and he killed all lifeforms on the planet ... thus putting a temporary stop to his experiments. During Covenant, he needed a "MOTHER" to continue his work. The pathogen served it's purpose and showed David what would happen (the two Neomorphs) He knew what the Pathogen could do though, because he has several of his previous experiments in his quarters. The next step for David was the creation of the egg's containing the Facehugger through Shaw ... Again, he couldn't proceed due to the lack of lifeforms on the planet. When the Covenant arrived (yes, they were lured in) he could continue. The captain was the first victim in another stage in David's creation of life.

I'll stick with the Engineers being the ones who created the Xenomorphs. The ones we all know and love and that David is trying to replicate their work. No matter how good the story of an upcoming movie is gonna be ... there's no fucking way they can make this work.

You might have saved the plot for me. I feel much more comfortable believing that the space jockey and eggs in the original Alien do not need to be explained by these movies.
 

Jinroh

Member
Anybody read the book?

The biggest change is the scene with David and Oram in his little shop of horrors. It is filled with all manner of fascinating and gruesome sights, including a dissected Engineer's corpse, tiny preserved neomorph specimens that hatched out of insects, and, most notably, corpses (or at least models) of something that sounds suspiciously like the classic Giger alien. David even shows Oram a petrified facehugger's egg, which he reveals he euthanised because it was too aggressive. Oram looks inside this egg, at David's urging, and is comforted to find that the hugger inside is, as promised, quite dead. Tantalisingly, he mentions that this was left behind by the Engineers, saying it is a "supreme example of their skill." His attempts to create the alien, seemingly, are trying to emulate this one left by the Engineers. He also confirms that the aliens take on characteristics of their host species, a la the Dog Alien from Alien 3, which is a nice little detail.

Reading through novelisation - some of the differences for anyone curious

https://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/6ctw0e/reading_through_novelisation_some_of_the/

edit: If the book is canon and these details were removed from the movie for some reason, it would settle the debate: David didn't create the classic xenomorph, he's just trying to emulate it.
 

Arkanius

Member

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
It's only piggy-backing if you know what it is you're climbing on before you start climbing. So far as David knows, this has never been done before. Hell, so far as we know, this has never been done before.

Why wouldn't he take pride in it?



The one stuck in the side of a hill on the Engineer planet, yeah.

He did know what he was piggy-backing off of he saw the goo turn spores into parasites that produced neomorphs he has was in the chamber were the goo was stored in Prometheus featuring a mural of an similar creature. David understood what he saw more in that ship than anyone else. What David is doing is the very definition piggy-backing.
 

ruxtpin

Banned
Maybe Walter comes back as Walter 2.0, a friendly robot with alien powers. Since he has some self healing going on, maybe he's able to use the black cum to selectively upgrade his powers. Next movie they face off again and Walter has a little mini Walter that comes out of his own mouth, but they're both on our side.
 

Ferr986

Member
Maybe Walter comes back as Walter 2.0, a friendly robot with alien powers. Since he has some self healing going on, maybe he's able to use the black cum to selectively upgrade his powers. Next movie they face off again and Walter has a little mini Walter that comes out of his own mouth, but they're both on our side.

Only if it pops out playing a flute. He then shoves it into David's eye, maybe making a little Bond one liner in the process. "Looks like you've got a symphony in you too", or something like that. Yeah.
 

Just_one

Member
Saw the movie last night and loved it! Only thing i still dont understand is how they will connect all Prometheus and Covenant to the Space Jockey surrounded by eggs in the first Alien.

My theory about the xenomorphs we will know...

The eggs created by david were created from Shaw who wasnt able to have kids.

The eggs that swap the facehuggers from alien are eggs from the queen alien (which at the time exists but it doesnt get mentioned until Aliens)


NOW bare with me.... what if the queen is born from Daniels? who for all intends she can have kids to it has a functional reproduction system.(it could explain the fast incubation time in Covenant since David doesnt have a reproduction system to experiment on)

If this is true how does the space jockey gets surrounded by eggs and they state in the movie that is million years old.... have no idea.

I think at the time the million years old line was just to make a bit of tension....they never thought of doing prequels lol
 
Saw the movie last night and loved it! Only thing i still dont understand is how they will connect all Prometheus and Covenant to the Space Jockey surrounded by eggs in the first Alien.

You already know the answer to this.

....they never thought of doing prequels lol

You see? But in all seriousness, the story of Covenant really doesn't add up with Alien if we want to go by the established timeline. Which is doubly weird because it was Ridely Scott who picked these dates in the first place. 10 years is absolutely not enough time for what we see in Alien following Covenant, if it is true that David is the creator and source of the Xenomorph eggs, and doesn't allow for a Space Jockey/Engineer at all unless David decided to wear a suit far too big for him for no reason.

If Covenant had been set a hundred or so years before Alien I could have bought it, but 10? C'mon now. It takes that long just to travel between planets in the Alien universe.
 
I think it's quite clear that these movies aren't going to directly link into the original in the way we want them to. At most it'll probably be a nod to it. Or they'll create some bullshit way to do it.

The fact that these movies have technology way advanced than what we have in the originals surely points to that?
 

ruxtpin

Banned
Somewhat related, but they make an Alien coloring book for adults (found on Amazon). Hah. I kinda' want to order just for the fun of it. I could make a pink alien!
 

Z3M0G

Member
I think it's quite clear that these movies aren't going to directly link into the original in the way we want them to. At most it'll probably be a nod to it. Or they'll create some bullshit way to do it.

The fact that these movies have technology way advanced than what we have in the originals surely points to that?

Travel from location to location sometimes takes decades... so it's easy to imagine tech in currently active ships being decades apart from each other. Alien was a mining vessel, right? Probably a rather old one.
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Travel from location to location sometimes takes decades... so it's easy to imagine tech in currently active ships being decades apart from each other. Alien was a mining vessel, right? Probably a rather old one.
Either way, I've always kinda liked the idea that long distance space travel relied on super duper stable but primitive computers.

I can handwave the difference in tech along the lines you outline, but aesthetically it's always bummed me out that they didn't just shrug and keep it kinda basic.
 
The novelization is definitely interesting, but yeah, it's no more canon than the unutilized concept art I was geeking out over a few pages back. Some of those ideas could be brought back in future movies, but that's not where we're at atm. I'll go to bat on the Deacon being something David replicated (in part by happenstance) from clues for both the character and the viewer in Prometheus, but I haven't seen any of that in Covenant for the Xenomorph in my several viewings. And Ridley has stated several times explicitly that David's the creator of the xeno during the press tour.

Just yesterday Empire posted a spoiler interview where he reconfirms that David designed the xeno rather than the Engineers at 27:00 (albeit it's only possible with the Engineer's technology).

Scott says the Engineers are the "gardeners of space," they give the gift of DNA to planets in need of evolution and then wipe clean planets of its "meat" with the black goo plague if their creation disappointments them with war and such. Humans fucked up. Unsurprising explanation.

And since it always seems to be topical in these Scott Alien threads, Scott at 19:00 also answers if the Queen is part of his canon and he gives a non-answer for a minute that I'd interpret as a, "No, I'm interested in doing my own mythology with my Alien movies." Listen to it yourself to make sure I understood it correctly, if you're interested.

Interviewer is on point saying that David forcing that kiss on Daniels is the scariest part of the film. "I'll do to you what I did to her" "Is that how it's done?" Fuck.

Ridley is asked about why he handled Shaw the way he did, if the plan was always to kill her offscreen, and he seems to begin talking about the potential of Shaw at one point, but then quickly goes on a tangent where he talks generally about how great Noomi Rapace is ;__;

Scott also talks about needing to bring back the Daniels character for the sequel, even if it's in the same vein as Shaw in Covenant.

Scott also talks about the "sequel" being written atm going forward in the timeline, not backwards with a prequel. Bye, Prometheus-Awakening-Covenant. (Someone, please ask him about what he said about Awakening at one point.) When Scott is asked if there's just one more Alien film to be made, he says "no, no."

Sounds like Scott intended for the audience to know about the David/Walter switcheroo from the fight from the clues he put on screen, but questions the interviewer when she suspected/knew and he seemed delighted that she was unsure until the explicit reveal.

Scott says that David has no respect for Engineers or humans. Yerp.
 

Timeaisis

Member
I thought this film was soundly better than Prometheus and far and away the best sequel since Aliens. Yes, it still has dumb moments, but nothing as slap-you-in-the-face stupid as a scientist reaching out to an hostile looking alien worm hissing like a cobra. The dumb moments here aren't that far removed from the usual horror movie cliches even the old films had (like "I'm going in this dark area alone for a while"). The only part that came close to Prometheus levels of dumb was the captain following David into the egg cave, then staring into an egg. If he wasn't ready to shoot David after discovering that he's been engineering these things, he should have at least been prepared to blast the eggs on sight.

The film also doesn't bullshit nearly as much. Prometheus hinted at these mysteries that in retrospect it clearly had no real plans or answers for; there was no substance to any of that. Rewatching Prometheus wouldn't yield any revelations after this film; David's motivations are clearer, but that was already pretty well established. What we saw in that movie is all it was, and it seems like an even weaker film now that the sequel didn't bring anything forward other than David. Covenant is a self contained movie that gives you everything it wants to in its runtime; it doesn't lead you on with bullshit mysteries it doesn't intend to solve. For that alone it's a much stronger film. It also has a more decisive ending instead of just leaving it completely open again, while still keeping it vague enough for a sequel.

I also don't get the people saying this is just a retread of the Alien movies. It borrows elements from them, but of course it does; it's an Alien movie. It's got some similar scenarios, like another alien getting blown out the airlock, but it's not the same story. I didn't feel like the Xenomorphs were just there for fanservice either. The movie is using them in a different way.

My big complaint is that the characters are mostly weak. By the end, you still barely even know the people who are getting killed and most of them are a few lines away from being "extras." Prometheus had that too- the crew that took down the Engineer ship was barely a factor before that scene at all. Compared the the crew in the original or the marines in Aliens, where every death meant something to you because you knew or at least recognized the character, this is a major step down.

I think it's better than people are saying. It's not as good as the first two films, but who would possibly expect it to be. I went in with no feelings one way or the other , either as an Alien film or a Prometheus sequel, and it exceeded my expectations.

Yup, I agree with most of this. I think the film's biggest flaws is that the new characters just are mostly not that interesting, or are never really developed. David is, but he's in the last film so he's already been developed. Daniels, while cool, could go with some more character development. And as much as I appreciate Tennessee, he mostly feels like the grounded support than anything else. Everyone else is mostly forgettable. Chris (the captain) had some interesting religious beliefs that they mention but never again touch on (I'm guessing something that got lost in a rewrite), and the rest of the crew is basically just bodies for the horrifying creatures to kill.

Your enjoyment of this movie really hinges on how much the Alien throwback scenes do for you (as you say, they aren't really a retread, but they kind of are in a way) and how much you like David as a character.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Wear fucking helmets

Don't put a whole crew on a ship where everyone seems to be married or have a significant other.

Don't drop the colony ship into atmosphere of planet showing full on signs of needing quarantined

Fuck David.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
This is literally a mainstay of science fiction for decades, probably longer. It's understood that if the atmosphere is breathable, you can take your helmet off. This isn't hard science fiction and it isn't an Alien/Prometheus thing. Like pretty much any sci-fi movie that has a planet with an earth-like atmosphere does this.

You can't use a common narrative shortcut if it ends up being a cause of conflict in your story.

It'd be like a shonen manga having its protagonist jump off a huge cliff and die. Having heroes falling down huge distances without suffering any consequences is a mainstay of shonen manga. But you can't use that narrative shortcut if you're just going to use it to create a problem afterwards. That'd be fucking stupid.
 
You can't use a common narrative shortcut if it ends up being a cause of conflict in your story.

It'd be like a shonen manga having its protagonist jump off a huge cliff and die. Having heroes falling down huge distances without suffering any consequences is a mainstay of shonen manga. But you can't use that narrative shortcut if you're just going to use it to create a problem afterwards. That'd be fucking stupid.
I totally agree. I brought up that same criticism on an earlier page
 

Bergerac

Member
Didn't think to look for this thread, but caught the midnight premiere last week in UK. I was the first to start rumbling in the cinema at the flute scene and then a wave followed behind me.

Still, the Neverending Story, kids 80s fantasy film looking scene that was the smoky chestburster CG is far and away the worst part. It was the most immersion breaking part of the film. The damned thing looked like it was elevating out of the chest on a platform. I thought it was about to put on a show.

Other than that I actually didn't hate it too much. I felt the Engineer civilisation planet (I say that as I doubt it's the only one) being written off in seconds to be really disappointing, and it seemed highly implausible that David defeated Walter and his 'upgrades' but otherwise, eh, it was what it was.

See, with Mankind Divided (tangent), I didn't get those 'middle arc' feels, MD felt like it wrapped up enough on its own, but I totally got that feeling from Covenant. It was very much 'in the middle'... and Prometheus was a stronger film. I can't say I totally hate Covenant. I'd rather watch Covenant over an AVP film or Resurrection, any day.

Edit: No, I'll add that them landing on the planet and not even treating the atmosphere with the slightest suspicion and just rolling out without suits was bad. So was the complete write off of Shaw, who, if they're going for a strong female lead, I found a Hell of a lot more compelling than Daniels, and Rapace is just plain a better actor.
 

android

Theoretical Magician
I think the reason we were shown the wasp like pods that infected the two military type guys was they were where the xenomorph pods came from. David even said he used the wasps as a first step. Also when David said something along the lines of "I've been waiting for mother" that was the Captain. He got pregnant and gave birth to the xenomorph. There'll be no Queen.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
I think the reason we were shown the wasp like pods that infected the two military type guys was they were where the xenomorph pods came from. David even said he used the wasps as a first step. Also when David said something along the lines of "I've been waiting for mother" that was the Captain. He got pregnant and gave birth to the xenomoprh. There'll be no Queen.

The spores had nothing to do with the wasps.
 
Top Bottom