It's like people are somehow conditioned to buy any new release of a brand. I blame Apple for that.
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Alienware Steam Machines are un-upgradable, will be released annually
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
It's like people are somehow conditioned to buy any new release of a brand. I blame Apple for that.
I haven't seen this argument since the early 00's when console fanboys attacked PC gamers for needing to upgrade their GPUs every year.
It is amazing pc gamers are making embarrassing arguments that they fought against over a decade ago.
This sounds like a joke, sorry but mimic what console? The only thing is its mimicking is pc haters that say you have to upgrade your pc every year. I just wish valve would of stuck with one steam machine, had it be cheap/comparable to the ps4 and xbox one but you can upgrade on the fly. As of now these steam machines are not selling them selves well and I would rather build a new computer with steam in big picture mode.
I wouldn't say that. I would say everyone has been following Valve's vision but only gigabyte, cyberpower and alienware seem to be delivering hardware wise something that resembles a shift away from the current status quo of prebuilt machines.
There is a big mismatch between what people want from Valve and what Valve has actually said.
It isn't just manufacturers who need to fully grasp the concept of Steam machines. I could argue that Valve hasn't fully comitted to explaining everything for anyone to know 100% what they want.
For example Valve at no point in time when they said they want to define machines that are "Good, better and best" actually mentioned what baseline machine would be the good one. If the "good" one uses an integrated GPU or not is important point they haven't clarified.
There are other problems they haven't clarified such as the advantages if any of moving over to Linux. There are reasons to question Valve's vision but this knee jerk reaction to Alienware's laptop sized PC is a minor controversy.
Oh, this must mean why no one buys laptops.
That's not going to be ideal for everyone, but consider this: a GTX260 is a perfectly serviceable graphics card for most PC games released today. It was a mid-range card when I picked it up nearly 5 years ago. If this generation is anything like the last, upgradability may not be a make-or-break feature.
There's a trade-off between form factor and upgradability. The fact that they valued the former over the later is not a cardinal sin.
There's a trade-off between form factor and upgradability. The fact that they valued the former over the later is not a cardinal sin.
The 2xx series doesn't support DX11, but your point stands. The problem traditional consoles are going to have is that PCs are capable of turning out 1080p at 60fps at a low cost when they weren't previously. A cost that drops every month that ticks off the calendar. I expect the Alienware box to be at least par in performance and in the ballpark price wise (they said cheaper than X51).
What about year 2? Year 3?
I posted it earlier in the thread and it's worth remembering; these 'next gen' consoles are starting in a place that they didn't last gen. They are weaker by every measure than your average gaming PC. By the time SteamOS is worth messing with (give it a year or two), the price/performance of these steam machines will start to look pretty damn good. Yes, the entry barrier to PC gaming is still higher than consoles, but it also has never been lower (closer).
There are perfectly valid criticisms of these machines - like the limited linux catalog - but these are early efforts in a long game.
LoveCake
Member
most people don't buy a laptop for gaming, as i said what would people do if next year MS released the X2 & Sony released the PS5 with a better spec for the same price & then the year after & so on that's the point i was making.
i have a £300 lappy for normal internet stuff, i have a high spec PC, X360, PS3, WiiU & 3DS for gaming, i wouldn't upgrade these every year.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I'm more concerned about Valve's showing at CES than Alienware's specs on a Steambox. My optimism about (and interest in) this product has been dribbling away
NingenJanai
Member
I think Alienware will basically fit their laptop insides (motherboard and cpu / gpu ) in a small case, that's why it won't be upgradeable.
So which OS is user supposed to use with this machine?
Except only minor part of PC gamers uses overpriced GPUs and about a third of steam users are using iGPUs.
PS
And that Titan being 3 times faster than 7850/7870 is BULLSHIT.
Yeah, except that part where PCs have overtaken consoles because their set-in-stone nature hampers them.
Except only minor part of PC gamers uses overpriced GPUs and about a third of steam users are using iGPUs.
PS
And that Titan being 3 times faster than 7850/7870 is BULLSHIT.
On the lowest settings Tomb Raider can run at 720p30fps on an integrated intel GPU. An integrated GPU. Perhaps not 2005 (mainly because my memory is fuzzy of that period) - but if we take the PS3 - we got the 8800GT not so long after the PS3 which up until very recently (where developers started preparing for 'next-gen') the 8800GT and similar classes of cards were listed as minimum requirements.
I think people seriously overestimate what the consoles are actually capable of.
fluffydelusions
Member
Terrible idea
I think it has to do also with the standards people are used to. When they talk about (last gen) consoles being able to run "optimized" games until the end of life, they talk also about sub-720p games and/or sub 30 fps framerate, while for a PC this might be even below the low settings for a game. So this is not judged with the same unit of measurement.
Anyhow, judging the life expectancy for the Alienware Steam Machine without knowing the configuration is just speculation now.
look at the X51 thread - anyone in there that hasn't upgraded the GPU - thats your basic audience.
possibly a larger audience than those that build their own gaming PCs
probably not you or anyone in the 'build a gaming PC' thread
a market that doesn't address you doesn't automatically mean it doesn't address other people.
Ah, all those gaming laptops must be left on the shelves then. You should let the manufacturers know, they could save a pretty penny!
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
A PS4 priced at $399 will last you 7 years. An Alienware Steam Machine priced at $399 will probably last you 4 or so years before you'll feel a need to upgrade it.
BumblebeeCody
Member
You could always just download more.
^ This.
Just buy a console at this point.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Building a PC and upgrading one are completely different. Both are simple but upgrading is almost always a complete snap.
i think this is a great idea. Might as well go all the way in making PCs as much as consoles as possible.
So it's a niche of a niche, good luck to Alienware.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Have an Ouya. It's a poor tool for the job. I built an atom PC (in an old NES chassis no less) in 2011. Also poor for the job. Also spent well over $500 building it.
The Raspberry Pi works better than the Ouya for this sort of thing, but I had a mouse and keyboard hooked up to make it work - once again Wife Acceptance Factor.
I think I can swing $500 on one of these, and I know it's going to work with XBMC, and I can even guess that Valve will even swing contracts for Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Instant/Pandora, and maybe, just maybe, I can get it to replace my current Ouya/Roku combination for TV viewing.
And it will play games, and not just smartphone ports.
DainBramage
Neo Member
I do understand why people are disappointed about this but this is pretty much what I expected. I'm guessing that dell is going to have a custom motherboard and that the component will be soldered on, like more and more laptops/ultrabooks/every macbook etc thus the poor upgrade possibilities.
I can see my self with a machine like this if valve can make it so it has decent media capabilities, like xbmc and streaming services and even airplay capabilities if possible.
I can see my self with a machine like this if valve can make it so it has decent media capabilities, like xbmc and streaming services and even airplay capabilities if possible.
And frankly, I thought Steam Machine's whole notion was it'd be friendly towards people who aren't necessarily into updating their rigs too. I say this, though, but Alienware releasing an updated rig every year isn't really helping what consoles essentially prevent - which is spec pressure. (eg. "omg ugh only a 650GT u need to upgrade asap")
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I just don't see it. The big advantage is supposed to be the ability to upgrade. With that taken away I think it makes more sense to just buy or build a PC if that's what you're after.
I don't understand it either; this Alienware machine will be one choice out of many, so if it's not for you, don't buy it. No reason for all this hand wringing and angst.
In your case I'd be tempted by something like an Intel NUC as a HTPC.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Do you think a PS4 will still play ever more demanding games in 4 years without sacrificing resolution, image quality or framerate? At least this way you have the option to refresh your gaming hardware with full backwards compatibility once you decide that it's not performing to your standards, something you can't do with the PS4.
So you won't feel the need for an upgrade for PS4 in 4 years, but you know for sure that you will need it for the Alienware even before knowing the configuration, right?
I mean, I would probably feel the need for an upgrade after 2 years, maximum 3. Both for a console and for a PC. Guess where you can actually do that. I am quite lazy now in building a PC, so with a right price/configuration this might suite me. Plus add on top the fact that it is as open as it can be from the software point of view, I can install Windows if I feel the need or I can keep the SteamOS, I can install an XMBC and I don't depend on the willingness of the app developers for consoles. For both Windows and Linux there are already enough options out there.
For me a console is worth just as much as the exclusives it gets.
Interfectum
Member
This doesn't make sense. You realize the tail end of PS4's life it's going to be tripping over itself with framerate issues, resolution issues, etc while attempting to keep up with high end PC down ports and VR. Both machines will be outdated in 4 years or so.
Frank Jaeger
Member
Whilst I agree with you on the part that most people can't assemble a pc to save their lives, the time factor for a person that knows is ridiculous!
I assembled mine from scratch with one screwdriver in less than 2h and even had time to fumble around because the mobo power cable came off while I was connecting the graphic card!
How is that too long? I think MGS4 takes longer to install!
I had windows already installed on the SSD I brought from home and in 2h20min after some updates I was playing BF3 online!
Felix Lighter
Member
There are still posts claiming that because they release refreshed specs annually that you should somehow feel the need to upgrade annually. Comparing it to a yearly upgraded console is makes no sense at all. Consoles are closed hardware platforms and the software created for them are designed completely around that fixed spec. One of the biggest advantages of the PC platform is that it's open and the software is designed to work with a wide variety of hardware. Even if Alienware idiotically stuck with a outdated fixed spec for years, there will be Steam Machines and custom built machines with far better hardware available. Why is it that you would feel the need to upgrade to the next Alienware Steam Machine with each refresh but could easily ignore all the other more capable modern PC released by other manufactures?
Even if the thing was fully upgradable, they would release refreshed specs at least annually. Who is going to buy a Steam Machine with old generation hardware the years after the initial launch?
I get why people would be turned off by the fact that you can't upgrade the components. I understand the reasoning behind that fact but I personally wouldn't suggest this for anyone I know but the annual released refreshes make all the sense in the world for every manufacturer building one of these boxes, upgradable or not.
Even if the thing was fully upgradable, they would release refreshed specs at least annually. Who is going to buy a Steam Machine with old generation hardware the years after the initial launch?
I get why people would be turned off by the fact that you can't upgrade the components. I understand the reasoning behind that fact but I personally wouldn't suggest this for anyone I know but the annual released refreshes make all the sense in the world for every manufacturer building one of these boxes, upgradable or not.
Interfectum
Member
Many console owners don't like options. They want one hardware spec for everyone. Think about the meltdowns that would occur if Sony announced PS4 Extreme Edition with a faster CPU/GPU next year. Good lord.
Well, that's the thing - a lot of people who buy Steam Machine are already going to have a PC, and possibly an already beefy one at that. If the Machines were upgradable, then it boils down to investing money on a computer that's locked into Steam OS. (Though I think some have Windows, too ?) For many people, no amount of Steam Sales discounts will help that make sense.
The whole concept of Steam Machines is still messy though - what do Valve/PC manufactures want consumers to see it as? Some insist it's a console, others as a PC. Maybe a hybrid? But for that to really settle in, it'd need a price point between a PC and a console - which is unlikely since video cards and CPUs fire the pricing skywards.
Can I use a mouse and keyboard with a console? Can I play exclusives like DOTA, CS:GO (let's not compare the console versions with the PC versions), SC2, and the like on a console? Can I play Indie games like Gone Home and Papers, Please? on a console? Can I hook up a VR helmet like the Rift to a console? Can I install software like XBMC on a console?
There's plenty of reasons to buy this over a console.
Indeed. The first gen Steam Machines are probably going to be quite lacklustre, and the second gen probably will be too, but I imagine the third (and beyond) generation machines will be quite incredible and great value for money.
I agree with a point someone made earlier that this alienware version should be updated ever 1.5-2 years instead of every year.
With Intel's tick tock method and both AMD and Nvidia relying even more on rebadging old gpus I think we are at a point that yearly hardware updates won't be realistic if they keep on slowing down the release of new architectures.
With Intel's tick tock method and both AMD and Nvidia relying even more on rebadging old gpus I think we are at a point that yearly hardware updates won't be realistic if they keep on slowing down the release of new architectures.
At first I thought "What a shitty idea!" But when you think about it makes sense. You don't have to upgrade each year and this is targeted at non hardcore pc gamers. As long as the prices are in line with consoles I can imagine this being very successful. Look at steam statistics! Now everyone on there has a beast of a machine. A lot of folks will be happy to get into PC gaming with a decent rig and sit on it for a couple of years until they want to upgrade again. If they "subsidize" these things with a some sort of warranty deal and harass you like cell phone companies when your contract is up for a upgrade it could work.
But yeah only a small niche of people will upgrade a whole damn steam machine box every single year!
But yeah only a small niche of people will upgrade a whole damn steam machine box every single year!
Interfectum
Member
Anyone who does that deserves to lose their money.
Alienware isn't releasing new Steam Machines every year to make people buy a new one yearly, they are doing it to keep up with evolving PC specs.
Agent Gibbs
Member
Exactly! for the price Alienware/DELL will charge it would be just as easy to get a freaking gaming laptop
I've got an MSI GT60 it cost £1000, the closest spec Alienware (that was lower spec) cost £1500, if the Alienware steam box is priced anywhere close to their PC range i'd expect that "competative" price they keep claiming being around the £800-£1100 range
We will have to see the specs but I already can see 2 distinct advantages.
By leaving out the keyboard and making everything BGA this will be more heat efficient and it won't make as much noise when the parts are stressed.
By throwing out the display you save customers at least around $200 for the screen and everything else put into the laptop to support a display.
Given that this is Alienware I'm sure a chunk of their audience will buy it yearly if they need to or not though.
I doubt they'll emulate EVGA's step up program.
The fact that this has to be explained blows me away. I don't understand why people are struggling to grasp such a simple concept.
Sorcerer
Member
Wow Alienware is getting hit from both sides.
Console gamers who balk at the idea of a newly updated machine every year (you don't have to buy one every year)
PC experts who would rather upgrade parts.
I wonder if there are enough people in the middle ground for Alienware to be succesful?
Console gamers who balk at the idea of a newly updated machine every year (you don't have to buy one every year)
PC experts who would rather upgrade parts.
I wonder if there are enough people in the middle ground for Alienware to be succesful?
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