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Alienware Steam Machines are un-upgradable, will be released annually

D

Durante

Member
Interrobang said:
I think one could argue one of the most appealing aspect was that they stated "you could build your own," which sort of translates to being able to upgrade it - to me at least.
Click to expand...
And how does this change in any way because there are one or more pre-built options available with fixed components? In addition to upgradable pre-built options as well as the option to build your own?

People still seem incredibly troubled in these threads by the concept of options. Far more so than when they buy a car or a cell phone. I don't get it. I like options, even those which do nothing for me personally.
 
K

KennyLinder

Member
chaosblade said:
I never said the idea was flawless, I'm just stating what the goal is. And whether or not that's the case just depends on the hardware used in the Steam Machine, because if the GPU is a bit better than what's in the PS4 it could theoretically last as long as the PS4 would, so long as the DX version is still supported (just like the 8800GT, which was serviceable until games didn't support it at all).
Click to expand...

In theory that's right, but does that happen? Would a typical gaming PC setup from 2005 (when Xbox 360 came out) run Assassins Creed 4? I know it's not exactly a stunner on Xbox/PS3 these days, but y'know, its perfectly playable.

I guess the cycle will be most likely shorter this time, but if the cost is the same and you can't play new games on it in 5 years as well as a console with set spec could, would it be an issue?
 
O

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
I don't understand why some people are making such a big deal. This was pretty obvious that it was going to happen. PC parts are improving every year so it makes sense they keep there steam machine up to date. Doesn't mean you have to upgrade it every year and its not going to mean after a year your games suddenly won't work or new ones won't work.

If you are a pc guy you prob arnt going to buy a steam machine are you. Your going to build your own.

Then you have people like me that used to be pc guys but now don't have the time money desire to do that and just get a new machine every 4 years or so. You still prefer pc games and want to take advantage of free online steam sales. Buy one of these and upgrade it in 3-5 years when you decide you want to and you are gurenteed an upgraded version is there for you to buy.

Its also for people who want to get into pc gaming but want to use a telly and have zero interest in building PCs. They too would prob upgrade every 3-5 years.

Makes sense to me. I think this whole steam machine thing will be a slow burn and might not even really take off but that's a different matter.

New phones come out every year but most people upgrade every 2 years because of how contracts work. If we all had to buy the phones out right I bet most people would wait longer.
 
J

jet1911

Member
To play devil's advocate, everybody complaining about that are you also upset everytime a laptop manufacturer release a new model?
 
Q

Qassim

Member
Still sort of amazing that people don't understand that *anyone* can make a steam machine, and an individual company's own vision of one is not representative of others.
 
D

DoYouEvenLift?

Banned
Hasney said:
Why? Because of one manufacturers intentions?

I read the thread title about the non-upgradeable nature and thought: CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. Sure it's nothing a soldering iron can't fix.
Click to expand...

The reason consoles are successful is because of their pure simplicity. I spent ~$440 last November for a PS4. I know, with no ambiguity whatsoever, that I will be able to play any game ever made for the PS4 (barring things like PS Move and stuff). I also can say with reasonable certainty that top-tier games will be made and supported for the next 5 years, minimum.

If I buy a Steambox, I don't know these things. I have the same assurances I would have if I just bought a game on my regular, old Windows PC. Only, if I'm running SteamOS, I can't use regular old Windows. Of course, I can install Windows on my Steambox (maybe), but then what's the fucking point of buying the Steambox in the first place?

Steamboxes solve almost none of the problems of PC gaming. I think Valve would have done better for the industry if they just aligned themselves with Ubuntu or something rather than releasing yet ANOTHER friggin' Linux distro.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
While it is expected due to the nature of PC technology progression, the fact that they're non-upgradable console-like boxes makes it special.

It is the dream of the technology addict who insists on only using game consoles come true: one can finally buy a new console as soon as a fresh shader is invented.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
KennyLinder said:
In theory that's right, but does that happen? Would a typical gaming PC setup from 2005 (when Xbox 360 came out) run Assassins Creed 4? I know it's not exactly a stunner on Xbox/PS3 these days, but y'know, its perfectly playable.
Click to expand...

That's not entirely comparable, because the 360 GPU was pretty cutting edge for 2005. The PS4 GPU is solidly midrange in 2013 - comparable (spec-wise) GPUs go for $120ish today, if you can find them.

But no, a PC from 2005 is probably not going to run AC4 at all because I'm not even sure it would support the right DirectX version. And 2005 was a long ass time ago.

KennyLinder said:
I guess the cycle will be most likely shorter this time, but if the cost is the same and you can't play new games on it in 5 years as well as a console with set spec could, would it be an issue?
Click to expand...

If the generation is shorter then I don't think it will be an issue at all unless Alienware, etc skimp on the GPUs. But there is really no reason to, especially if they aren't using retail GPUs and instead have custom boards with the chips soldered on to reduce cost.
 
K

KennyLinder

Member
jet1911 said:
To play devil's advocate, everybody complaining about that are you also upset everytime a laptop manufacturer release a new model?
Click to expand...

I think the issue is what I said:

PS4 costs £350
Steam machine costs (a hopeful) £350


Someone buys a Steam Machine because they want PC games, but don't want "the hassle" or to buld their own, whatever. Fine

So, in 5 years time PS4 will still be playing games awesomely, and will amazing looking games on it from 1st party etc BUT will also have Ubisoft, EA games etc that work great on it.

Will a 5 year old PC based on the specs you get in the £350 steam machine? What spec are we expecting in them? Would it be able to play games as well as a PS4 in 5 years? Will PC games suddenly be well optimised for older specs?
 
M

MisterM

Member
DedValve said:
I'm ok with this. Provided the consoles are sub $300 and are more powerful than a PS4.
Click to expand...

Not going to happen for a few years. Alienware are not going to be making any money from software like Sony do. They'll only be making money from hardware sales which means they've got to add a premium on top of the cost to produce each box.

Best thing to do, give up on the idea of a super slim powerful Steam Box for not much more than a console, it's not happening for some time. Build your own mini-ITX machine which, while bulkier, will be much cheaper and much more powerful.

Yes, it goes against the Steam Machine "minimum effort" mentality but it's the only thing that will be relatively cost effective for the time being.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Durante said:
And how does this change in any way because there are one or more pre-built options available with fixed components? In addition to upgradable pre-built options as well as the option to build your own?

People still seem incredibly troubled in these threads by the concept of options. Far more so than when they buy a car or a cell phone. I don't get it. I like options, even those which do nothing for me personally.
Click to expand...

OmegaTreeFish said:
I don't understand why some people are making such a big deal. This was pretty obvious that it was going to happen. PC parts are improving every year so it makes sense they keep there steam machine up to date. Doesn't mean you have to upgrade it every year and its not going to mean after a year your games suddenly won't work or new ones won't work.

If you are a pc guy you prob arnt going to buy a steam machine are you. Your going to build your own.

Then you have people like me that used to be pc guys but now don't have the time money desire to do that and just get a new machine every 4 years or so. You still prefer pc games and want to take advantage of free online steam sales. Buy one of these and upgrade it in 3-5 years when you decide you want to and you are gurenteed an upgraded version is there for you to buy.

Its also for people who want to get into pc gaming but want to use a telly and have zero interest in building PCs. They too would prob upgrade every 3-5 years.

Makes sense to me. I think this whole steam machine thing will be a slow burn and might not even really take off but that's a different matter.

New phones come out every year but most people upgrade every 2 years because of how contracts work. If we all had to buy the phones out right I bet most people would wait longer.
Click to expand...

These.

DoYouEvenLift? said:
Steamboxes solve almost none of the problems of PC gaming. I think Valve would have done better for the industry if they just aligned themselves with Ubuntu or something rather than releasing yet ANOTHER friggin' Linux distro.
Click to expand...

A distro which is based on Debian, which Ubuntu itself is based on. This is a non-issue.
 
S

shouamabane

Member
I assumed this. The customizable version is already available.

I'm waiting 3-4 years. Steam boxes that are much more powerful than PS4 will be affordable at some point.
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
KennyLinder said:
In theory that's right, but does that happen? Would a typical gaming PC setup from 2005 (when Xbox 360 came out) run Assassins Creed 4? I know it's not exactly a stunner on Xbox/PS3 these days, but y'know, its perfectly playable.

I guess the cycle will be most likely shorter this time, but if the cost is the same and you can't play new games on it in 5 years as well as a console with set spec could, would it be an issue?
Click to expand...
AC4 is not playable on PS3 or 360.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
Durante said:
And how does this change in any way because there are one or more pre-built options available with fixed components? In addition to upgradable pre-built options as well as the option to build your own?

People still seem incredibly troubled in these threads by the concept of options. Far more so than when they buy a car or a cell phone. I don't get it. I like options, even those which do nothing for me personally.
Click to expand...

Lots of people only want one option and they need marketing to constantly tell them why the one option they chose is the best option and it will last them 10+ years.
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
shinobi602 said:
"Lifecycle wise, consoles update every five, six, seven years, we will be updating our Steam Machines every year,"
Click to expand...
I don't get it. They claim this as if its a good thing now?. Isn't a bad thing that your machine will become more obsolete every year? Without even the option for small upgrades like you have with regular gaming PCs? I'm confused.
 
R

Riggs

Banned
Who the fuck is this even for then? Geeze, I literally cannot see anyone buying this if it's not upgradeable.
 
O

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
KennyLinder said:
I think the issue is what I said:

PS4 costs £350
Steam machine costs (a hopeful) £350


Someone buys a Steam Machine because they want PC games, but don't want "the hassle" or to buld their own, whatever. Fine

So, in 5 years time PS4 will still be playing games awesomely, and will amazing looking games on it from 1st party etc BUT will also have Ubisoft, EA games etc that work great on it.

Will a 5 year old PC based on the specs you get in the £350 steam machine? What spec are we expecting in them? Would it be able to play games as well as a PS4 in 5 years? Will PC games suddenly be well optimised for older specs?
Click to expand...


I think all the Big company's have repetidely proven that there games are not gurenteed to run flawlessly on consoles. You say in 5 years they will still be running awesomley. You already have release games that certainly don't. So many games had terrible frame rates last gen while my 5 year old gaming desktop I just turned things down (and even then it was to medium at lowest) to get a guaranteed decent frame rate.

These are not meant to be just like consoles. Valve has said this many times. They are to be able to get smaller PCs suitable for the living room and to remove the absolute need for a mouse. It gets rid of some of the barriers but to remove them all would be pointless as it wouldn't be pc gaming anymore.
 
D

DoYouEvenLift?

Banned
UnrealEck said:
What examples of the problems do you have?
Click to expand...

The big one being "Will this run on my PC, and if so, how well will it run?" That experience on a console is determined for you, and you can rest easy knowing that it's the same for everyone.

The other big PC problem, "Am I going to have to tweak settings, have compatibility issues, etc..." is somewhat fixed, but the fix is to just remove Windows (and all the benefits that come with running the most widely used OS in existence).

Previously I would have said another big issue with PC gaming is the lack of a common controller interface (which Steamboxes do address), but I feel like MS did a good job of making the X360 controller the de facto standard PC controller.
 
N

Naminator

Banned
LMAO!

So they will be releasing PCs on a yearly schedule? What else is new?

Seriously these fucking people just DONT get it!

At this point these SteamMachines are nothing more than your regular pre-built PCs in a slightly different form factor.
 
C

Consequence

Member
nkarafo said:
I don't get it. They claim this as if its a good thing now?. Isn't a bad thing that your machine will become more obsolete every year?
Click to expand...

Where do they say it will be obsolete? There will just be an upgraded version out. The old one will function perfectly fine still.The rate of PC component improvement isn't going to make anything obsolete in 12 months at this point.

Edit: ah, "more obsolete". Apologies for misreading.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
That is the only way they can get them in that form factor. This was obviously going to be the case. However I expected that you would at least be able to update certain things, like HD and RAM.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
dHH3pto.jpg


0kmPFlg.jpg


twgdauJ.jpg


"The price will be competitive with next generation consoles. More information about pricing will be available
later this year."


"Our goal for the Alienware Steam Machine is to meet or exceed the performance and gaming experience of next generation consoles"
Click to expand...

Awww.. its sooo small.
 
diablos991

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
Did anybody in their right god damned mind think they could upgrade that thing with off-the-shelf components?

People must hold Alienware to some magical standards.
 
D

Dario ff

Banned
Even if for some reason you still wanted to upgrade yearly (which you don't), just being 1 year-old hardware would keep its resale value pretty well. It's not like I don't sell my own PC parts after buying new ones. :p

It's not like used PC hardware completely drops its price to Gamestop-trade in levels 2 years after being released.
 
G

GameAddict411

Member
alienware doesn't seem to know why people buy consoles in the first place. buying a $500-$1000 machine every year to stay up to date is simply never going to happen ever, not even the rich will fall for this.
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
mmitt said:
that happens anyway, so why not give people who buy the machine next year better specs for (I'd assume) the same price? prices can change quite a bit for pc components...
Click to expand...
No it does not happen... i mean, this is like buying a console. But consoles become obsolete every 4-5 or more years. Games continue to be optimized for all that time and you can even see much better graphics on the same machine as the years go by. PC games never do that and your new "console" will have trouble running the newer games.

With desktop PCs you have the option to reduce the damage. You don't need to buy a new tower with everything in it every 1 or 2 years. If you know what you are doing you can buy a decent PC that runs everything for a couple of years and with a small VGA upgrade 2 years later (150-200$) you can extend the life of your machine for an extra couple of years.
 
P

PG2G

Member
I don't know why you guys expected anything else, do you see how small it is?

If you want an upgradeable Steambox then buy from another vendor. Surely if this takes off Alienware will add another larger and uglier model for people that want to upgrade.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
I think selling easy and cheaper upgrades would be a better way to go.

Buying a 500 dollar machine and then in a year or two buying a new GPU for like 150 bucks that would double performance it's a more interesting prospect than buying a new whole new machine every time you want to upgrade.

Consoles can do it since every game will always be compatible, but upgrading a PC might be a necessity if a certain game demands it. I don't like this approach.
 
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