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[Ein Bear]

Out of curiosity, I just tried out OnLive and played a bit of Just Cause 2. Am honestly impressed at how well it works, I don't have a super-awesome connection or anything and I still couldn't notice any lag at all. The picture seemed a little muddy, though a large part of that it probably down to my laptop's screen not being the best.

Very encouraging to see this sort of streaming stuff working so well.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I feel that Gakai shit is pointless. They could have easily had PS1 and PS2 emulator. As for PS3 games they could have ported their best titles, hell a lot if 3rd party games for PS3 were available for PC and I'm sure porting PC version to PS4 wouldn't be a huge task.

They didn't spend all that money for BC. That tech could have multiple applications going forward and probably does so now.

 

[cebri.one]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-off-gaikai-vs-onlive

AC Brotherhood
167ms, 183ms, 167ms
AC Brotherhood (under load)
216ms, 167ms, 216ms
Orcs Must Die
183ms, 183ms, 183ms
Orcs Must Die (under load)
183ms, 183ms, 183ms


The results are rather interesting. Not only does the amount of latency present in some of the titles running on Gaikai equal that of OnLive, but there are also times where controller response is significantly faster despite the frame-rate being lower due to the 30FPS video encode. Taking a closer look at Assassin's Creed on Gaikai reveals that when the frame-rate is consistently hitting the target, the level of latency hovers around the 167ms to 183ms mark - it's playable, but inconsistent. With the game running flat-out at 60FPS, OnLive is more consistent, if slightly slower than Gaikai. When performance drops, both platforms are impacted, but it's Gaikai that seems to suffer the most.

On the other hand, when looking at Orcs Must Die we get far better latency results and as such a completely different feeling of controller response. With Gaikai, baseline latency isn't exactly wonderful at 183ms, but we found it to be consistent and it was possible to adjust to the gameplay experience. Gaikai annihilated OnLive in terms of response here with a consistent 83ms-100ms advantage - remarkable.

Other tests were equally polarising when it came to seeing how well Gaikai fared when put up against games running on the Xbox 360 and natively on PC. Sometimes we got some incredibly good results: playing Bulletstorm, we found controller response to be slightly slower than the 360 game, but sometimes it hit parity - a truly remarkable achievement. The quickest response time we measured was 133ms (identical to Bulletstorm 360) but it could drift to 150ms, in-line with The Darkness 2 on the 360 or Killzone 2 on PS3 - and we also recorded the odd 166ms measurement too. A matter of 17 or 33ms in additional lag might seem miniscule but you can definitely feel it in the inconsistency of the response.

Regardless, Bulletstorm is still playable on Gaikai, and we didn't find the additional latency to be too impactful across a general run of play. A look at Crysis 2 is far less pleasing though, with controller response being measured anywhere from 167ms, all the way up to 217ms, resulting in a virtually unplayable experience when it came to aiming and shooting with any degree of precision. Both of these shooters feature gamepad support, so we were able to measure latencies in exactly the same way between platforms.

Looks it could work, but it wasn't ready at the time.

 

[Manmademan]

I still dont think gaikai is actually going to be as revolutionary as people think it is. Doesn't anyone remember OnLive? It was a complete disaster. Sure it's been awhile since then but the fundamental structure of the Internet hasn't changed and that's what's preventing streaming games from being anything but painful lagfests. We haven't even fixed lag in online games and now people want to put the entire game online? Streaming games that actually work well are almost as ridiculous as Microsoft's "improving graphics with the power of the cloud."

The "fundamental structure" of onlive and gaikai was completely, totally different.

and streaming games already exist with PS3 remote play. hackers have implemented it unofficially in games that aren't supposed to support it with pretty good results.

 

[2San]

There are reviews of Gaikai up and running years ago. none mentioned a "blurry mess" at all.

How does this matter? I'm talking about first hand experience.

as for latency, every multiplayer game that exists right now has latency of some sort. It's an expectation that comes with online. Minimizing it is certainly possible.

I'm talking about latency for singeplayer games. There is a noticable lag when pushing a button and when something happens on screen. Gaikai is pretty much worthless for MP games.

Third, Gaikai is not meant as a replacement for new release games. at all. Those will still require either a download or disc based release to be playable. The Gaikai implementation is for remote play when away from the PS4, in which case your options are "play with some latency or don't play at all" or support for legacy titled on PS2 or PS3 that would be problematic without building in BC hardware no one wants to pay for.

My point is you are better of for example using to the TVita to play vita games rather than streaming games, unless Gaikai engineers really created some miracle.

and streaming games already exist with PS3 remote play. hackers have implemented it unofficially in games that aren't supposed to support it with pretty good results.

What do you even mean with good results? PS3 remote play was pretty bad and no one used it, it's an example of how steaming games doesn't work.

 

[Manmademan]

If you really think it's ok, then cancel your PS4 preorders, save yourself the money, wait for the first price drop. Nothing in the first couple of years will be a leap over PS3 except in fine graphical detail.

and THIS is just flat out stupidity.

How does this matter? I'm talking about first hand experience.

reviews ARE first hand experience from an objective observer. Why would i discount them?

My point is you are better of for example using to the TVita to play vita games rather than streaming games, unless Gaikai engineers really created some miracle.

and your point is wrong. I can play games that surpass what the vita is capable of via streaming. If gaikai is built into PS+ (likely), which I will be paying for anyway, why wouldn't I use it to play PS4 games remotely when I have the opportunity?

 

[General Choomin]

If the game is a third party game and multiplat 360/ps3/pc then it would be easy to set up pc servers for the game and stream the pc version. Why would it have to be the ps3 version? That would be stupid.

The only reason they would need cell server farms are for like 1st party games and the few major 3rd party devs that refuse to make pc versions of their games.

 

[cookie-monster]

hard to believe this is the same forum that argues over plasma vs LCD and saving a frame or two of lag, then happily swallowing 8-12 frames of lag for streaming.

not to mention no longer owning anything.

and THIS is just flat out stupidity.

if it wasn't true you'd have a coherent argument instead of just an ad hominem response.

 

[plainr_]

I still dont think gaikai is actually going to be as revolutionary as people think it is. Doesn't anyone remember OnLive? It was a complete disaster. Sure it's been awhile since then but the fundamental structure of the Internet hasn't changed and that's what's preventing streaming games from being anything but painful lagfests. We haven't even fixed lag in online games and now people want to put the entire game online? Streaming games that actually work well are almost as ridiculous as Microsoft's "improving graphics with the power of the cloud."

I've completed Saints Row 3 on OnLive and the input latency wasn't that bad.

Besides, I don't think anybody is expecting something revolutionary. Good enough is the standard that most people should set their expectations on. The main goal is to play PS games anywhere.

 

[$h@d0w]

how? none of the bottlenecks that hold it back have improved. It's an infrastructure problem, it will take years/decades to work without flaws.

I can't give any credit to people saying it's ok then piling in on Digital Foundry comparison threads. It is hypocritical to praise Gaikai and get involved in the minutae of cross-platform differences.

If you really think it's ok, then cancel your PS4 preorders, save yourself the money, wait for the first price drop. Nothing in the first couple of years will be a leap over PS3 except in fine graphical detail.

What? So you're saying that between 2011 and the release of Gaikai there won't be any improvement in the quality of the experience? Internet speeds haven't improved at all?

What are Dave Perry and his team doing right now? Sitting on their hands? Playing MDK 2?

 

[2San]

reviews ARE first hand experience from an objective observer. Why would i discount them?

Most reviews compares Gaikai to onlive, but not a viable means to actually play full games. For example Gaikai isn't muddy compared to onlive. However that is nothing to be proud off.

and your point is wrong. I can play games that surpass what the vita is capable of via streaming. If gaikai is built into PS+ (likely), which I will be paying for anyway, why wouldn't I use it to play PS4 games remotely when I have the opportunity?

You act like you are getting PS4 at full detail on your vita. The compression and latency will hamper the visuals and the experience.

 

[Manmademan]

if it wasn't true you'd have a coherent argument instead of just an ad hominem response.

I need to have a "coherent argument" to dismiss your statement that the only difference between PS3 and PS4 games is "fine detail?"

The reasons why this is false are laughably obvious. But just to make a point, I'll humor you.

This is a launch window indie title, pulling off physics based effects the PS3 couldn't touch in it's wildest dreams. Knack does the same thing, though it's not as flashy. The differences between PS3 and 4 go way beyond resolution and "fine detail."

Most reviews compares Gaikai to onlive, but not a viable means to actually play full games. For example Gaikai isn't muddy compared to onlive. However that is nothing to be proud off.


You act like you are getting PS4 at full detail on your vita. The compression and latency will hamper the visuals and the experience.

Gaikai is perfectly fine for games that aren't particularly latency sensitive. As i said before, remote play already exists on PS3. It's not perfect, but it is playable for full games (some officially supported, some not) and PS4's implementation is better.

http://www.destructoid.com/assassin-s-creed-iv-on-playstation-vita-via-remote-play-260435.phtml

as for full detail- never claimed I would. The Vita's screen can't support it. But as a compromise, lower resolution (720p for vita TV) is fine. i'll still have the benefit of more expansive games, better physics, better animation, and wildly more complex polygonal models.

 

[Alec]

My broadband connection is what some people like to refer to as "wild like the Taliban" and both OnLive and Gaikai worked like dreams for me.

Spoiler

Connection is 50Mb.

 

[J.ceaz]

alot of Debbie downers in this thread. Why can't we wait to see it before we declare it shit?

 

[Bundy]

They didn't spend all that money for BC. That tech could have multiple applications going forward and probably does so now.

This!
Gaikai will be used for a lot of different stuff. Not just "playing PS3 games on my PS4".