A lot of American high schools are just like that. I never wore a uniform to high school...
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any fellow kids watching this new Netflix show "13 reasons why"?
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A lot of American high schools are just like that. I never wore a uniform to high school...
I had the opposite problem. Hannah talks way too much like an adult. Have never met high schoolers who articulate that well with absolutely no slang etc.
old manatee
Banned
lol for real
Pankratous
Member
Just finished.
Watched a couple episodes a day. This was a pretty fantastic show. I'm torn about whether I want them to expand or not. They should probably just leave it.
Last couple episodes were difficult to watch.
Watched a couple episodes a day. This was a pretty fantastic show. I'm torn about whether I want them to expand or not. They should probably just leave it.
Last couple episodes were difficult to watch.
Will the Thrill
Banned
Eh experiences vary, I'd say I went to school with plenty of kids who talked like Hannah or an "adult".
HammerOfThor
Member
Just finished
I get they wanted to set up a shooting for a possible season 2, but I feel like there should have been another episode or two dealing with that. Maybe they will expand Tyler's story to make people feel for him? They did a 180 on Justin for me. I'm also surprised Justin didn't shoot Bryce.
IISANDERII
Member
She's Australian
But they don't explain her accent
Ziltoidia 9
Member
As I was watching it I thought they would bring in that there was a conspiracy between school management to keep it quiet to protect their sports team. Which wouldn't be too much of a stretch because high schools give extreme special treatment to athletes.
? She used an American accent in the show
So I decided to watch this because I'm a fan of Life is Strange and there were a lot of comments saying that this show had some LiS vibes.
So I binge-watched today having just finished a couple of hours ago.
Gotta say this show messed me up pretty bad. The last few episodes were brutal. There were scenes that destroyed me (like
). Damn... I feel like I would need some days to recover.
A incredible powerful series and easily one of the best I've watched recently.
So I binge-watched today having just finished a couple of hours ago.
Gotta say this show messed me up pretty bad. The last few episodes were brutal. There were scenes that destroyed me (like
Clay regret's dialogue with Hannah, where she says "Why didn't tell me this when I was alive?", the bathtub or that disturbing hot tub scene
A incredible powerful series and easily one of the best I've watched recently.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
shit we just had Baylor cover up multiple sexual assaults
On episode 7 atm.
The whole
sure didn't get annoying and predictable at all after the third time.
And it's a bit jarring how the biggest (second biggest) jerk in Riverdale is the nice guy here. The obvious dunk on the box was hilarious.
The whole
"wow something amazing just happened, nope it's all in Clay's head"
And it's a bit jarring how the biggest (second biggest) jerk in Riverdale is the nice guy here. The obvious dunk on the box was hilarious.
So I've come to realize today that I actually do have a problem with them
Because it feels like this show is trying to be like... how do I put this...
You know how Cabin in the Woods and One Punch Man are sort of homages of the "greatest hits" to their own genres (horror films and shonen anime respectively)?
Well, it feels like that's what this show is trying to do with that last plot element in terms of school tragedies, which rubs me in a pretty awful way. Not only does that sound insensitive (I'm sure they don't mean to be, though), but it comes off like a hamfisted way for the show to shove sadness down your throat.
This is not to say that this isn't a real problem in the real world, but coming off of the topic of this season? Hrrmmmmm.
setting up a school shooting for next season.
Because it feels like this show is trying to be like... how do I put this...
You know how Cabin in the Woods and One Punch Man are sort of homages of the "greatest hits" to their own genres (horror films and shonen anime respectively)?
Well, it feels like that's what this show is trying to do with that last plot element in terms of school tragedies, which rubs me in a pretty awful way. Not only does that sound insensitive (I'm sure they don't mean to be, though), but it comes off like a hamfisted way for the show to shove sadness down your throat.
This is not to say that this isn't a real problem in the real world, but coming off of the topic of this season? Hrrmmmmm.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Last ep was good. But as a whole, the show was dumpster fire.
Characters were so poorly defined and had so little agency. Alex is a completely different person from when you meet him to when he fucks Hannah over. And I don't even mean because of what he did to Hannah. I mean he acts completely differently. Then him continually meeting up with the paranoid crew of jocks and shit when he thought Hannah's truth should be shown, made no sense for the rest of the season.
Clay too. In one scene he'll be an awkward teenage loner, where in others he's the exact opposite. There's no consistency. And that's without pointing out just how dumb he is. How many times do you need people to tell you to listen to the tapes before you stop asking hundreds of questions where the answers are all invariably LISTEN TO THE TAPES you stupid piece of shit.
I also hate media that vies to treat children/teens like they're special by making adults dumb/clueless. It's the Harry Potter generation of writing. And I couldn't laugh enough that these guys are meant to be juniors high school.
But yes, last episode was good. I'll give it that.
Characters were so poorly defined and had so little agency. Alex is a completely different person from when you meet him to when he fucks Hannah over. And I don't even mean because of what he did to Hannah. I mean he acts completely differently. Then him continually meeting up with the paranoid crew of jocks and shit when he thought Hannah's truth should be shown, made no sense for the rest of the season.
Clay too. In one scene he'll be an awkward teenage loner, where in others he's the exact opposite. There's no consistency. And that's without pointing out just how dumb he is. How many times do you need people to tell you to listen to the tapes before you stop asking hundreds of questions where the answers are all invariably LISTEN TO THE TAPES you stupid piece of shit.
I also hate media that vies to treat children/teens like they're special by making adults dumb/clueless. It's the Harry Potter generation of writing. And I couldn't laugh enough that these guys are meant to be juniors high school.
But yes, last episode was good. I'll give it that.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Ding ding ding. Right on the head for me. This whole show felt like i was watching someone make a movie out of a suicidal fantasy i had when I was 15. And that really really annoys me for a lot of reasons because 15 me was a whinny shit. I think what Hannah doea to moat of these kids is some really awful and unfair bullshit, especially that guidance counselor who, while having almost the worst choice of words imaginable(I was actually expecting worse tho, like a "think about what you're sayong before you ruin the schools image" kinda thing you see in college campuses) did everything he was reasonably expected to do. The idea that he os at fault for not chasing her really really really bothers me.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
The show never criticizes her for doing the tapes thing, and it really should have.
But I don't believe anyone praised her for it either, the only praise she gets is for exposing these shitty people, but even then she does it in such a petty way that the audience is not supposed to believe that she did something right
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
The show martyr's the shit out of her. Multiples characters go on speeches about "It's our fault she killed herself because if one of us cared, she would still be around!" Which is the inherent problem and how this show kind of encourages suicide. Suicide notes, especially when you are teenagers, are designed mostly to make every single person who was ever mean to you feel really guilty for being mean. It is an ultimate cry for attention, and considering how pretty much everyone cries about Hannah, it's kind of justifying her suicide with the reaction every teenage kid with emotional problems really wants out of people with their own suicides.
Quick edit to clarify: Praising isn't the issue. The positive reinforcement for suicide from the guilt everyone feels about it is the issue
Is there positive reinforcement? Throughout the show you start to see that Hannah left her parents a fucking mess, something she never considered, something most suicidal people never consider. That's strike one against thinking that she did something "right" by killing herself.
Really the only people who do the whole "if one of us paid attention thing" is Alex, Sheri, and Clay. Three characters who aren't complete assholes and one of those characters kills himself partly because of the guilt knowing that he was a reason she killed herself. The majority of the characters are people who are just like "I ain't do shit"
Hannah is not exactly popular at her school, people know of her, and after the list focus on her physically, but it doesn't appear like people know her. It's more of a "girl at our school killed herself, shit's fucked." and that's it.
Really the only people who do the whole "if one of us paid attention thing" is Alex, Sheri, and Clay. Three characters who aren't complete assholes and one of those characters kills himself partly because of the guilt knowing that he was a reason she killed herself. The majority of the characters are people who are just like "I ain't do shit"
Hannah is not exactly popular at her school, people know of her, and after the list focus on her physically, but it doesn't appear like people know her. It's more of a "girl at our school killed herself, shit's fucked." and that's it.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I don't think you get the reason for this kind of grandiose suicidal display. Her parent's being wrecked is absolutely part of that guilt fantasy. Her parents are constantly arguing in the flashbacks and not paying attention to her enough, and now they feel awful for not paying attention enough to her. The worse characters feel about the suicide plays in positively to the fantasy. They want people who didn't care/were mean to feel as bad as they can over it.
And I'd say that by those three characters(Alex Clay Sheri) saying that repeatedly it is reinforcing a theme of "We should have paid attention more!" which honestly felt like it was message the show was trying to beat me with because Clay suddenly starts talking to that blonde depressed girl who cuts herself, in a way showing what personal growth Clay finally got thanks to Hannah's suicide. Again, this played way too close to one of my juvenile suicide fantasies I had as a kid, and from stuff, a friend told me about the book when she read it, it's equally bad in the book.
I actually really like the set up of a school shooting for the next season in large part because I don't like hardly any of the characters, I needed more comeuppance at the end, and it just feels way more interesting to me.
I wasn't left feeling like her committing suicide was a net positive or that it was glorifying it, however I've never had suicidal thoughts so I admittedly can't comment from that aspect.
To me, Hannah doesn't come across as very sympathetic at all in the end. It's horrible what happens to her, and I have no doubt the
really happened, however a couple times she's shown to not be the most reliable narrator to tell this story.
In the end I was left wondering about what she left out or didn't happen the way she said it did.
As for a Season 2, I really don't think it needs it even though it seems inevitable at this point. They should just let this be a glimpse into a small town high school and be totally ok leaving some things open for speculation.
To me, Hannah doesn't come across as very sympathetic at all in the end. It's horrible what happens to her, and I have no doubt the
rapes
In the end I was left wondering about what she left out or didn't happen the way she said it did.
We know the Basketball player (forget his name) didn't throw the note away,
and 2 separate characters both say it was her that stopped coming to the coffee shop.
and 2 separate characters both say it was her that stopped coming to the coffee shop.
As for a Season 2, I really don't think it needs it even though it seems inevitable at this point. They should just let this be a glimpse into a small town high school and be totally ok leaving some things open for speculation.
Sunster
Member
I don't think this romanticized suicide, at all. In one of the earlier episodes, when Hannah is narrating, she just throws out: "Oh yeah, and I'm still dead." I feel like that really made it clear that, even while these other characters are working through their feelings, it was still all over for Hannah. Nothing they did or thought or felt would matter to her anymore or change anything that happened to her. I mean, the end basically shows Clay moving on forever and happy, so really not a romantic win for the dead girl.
Also, Hannah loved her parents. She didn't commit suicide to make them regret not paying enough attention to her. She mentioned to the counselor that she felt she was just a problem for them (after she lost the money). The pain that her parents feel, shows how short sided and mistaken she was.
Also, Hannah loved her parents. She didn't commit suicide to make them regret not paying enough attention to her. She mentioned to the counselor that she felt she was just a problem for them (after she lost the money). The pain that her parents feel, shows how short sided and mistaken she was.
Yep
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Holy shit, me and my wife just finished the 11th episode, and holy hell do we now both hate this show.
WTF?!
Fuck this show. Fuck the show for trying to guilt him for that. But more importantly, how the story somehow hinges on a non-existent problem.
Granted,
Nah, I'm out.
Okay... so you have a rape. You have a murder. And you have some pretty damn mean teenage drama that is awful, but ultimately teenage drama - right or wrong.
Then FINALLY, we get to Clay's tape.
Now, the whole damn show we've heard classmates say "well wait till you get to YOUR tape, Clay," and so the audience waits with bated breath to see the awful things our protagonist has done. The show double-downs right before hand, too, with Tony, with a little convincing, admitting that Clay effectively was the final blow for Hannah.
... and what does Clay do? He IS nice to her. He does NOT take advantage of her.
He asks for consent. Then Hannah has an absolute breakdown that isn't his fault in the slightest. He stops when she tells him to stop. And then she tells him to leave - he hesitates - she yells at him - and so he leaves.
Then FINALLY, we get to Clay's tape.
Now, the whole damn show we've heard classmates say "well wait till you get to YOUR tape, Clay," and so the audience waits with bated breath to see the awful things our protagonist has done. The show double-downs right before hand, too, with Tony, with a little convincing, admitting that Clay effectively was the final blow for Hannah.
... and what does Clay do? He IS nice to her. He does NOT take advantage of her.
He asks for consent. Then Hannah has an absolute breakdown that isn't his fault in the slightest. He stops when she tells him to stop. And then she tells him to leave - he hesitates - she yells at him - and so he leaves.
Then the show romanticizes the idea of "what if he DIDN'T listen to her, and insisted she stay?
But that's completely unfair. He had a naked teenage peer in the room with him -
they just got done almost having sex, and when she revoked her consent he handled it admirably.
But that's completely unfair. He had a naked teenage peer in the room with him -
they just got done almost having sex, and when she revoked her consent he handled it admirably.
Fuck this show. Fuck the show for trying to guilt him for that. But more importantly, how the story somehow hinges on a non-existent problem.
Granted,
Hannah admits Clay doesn't REALLY belong on the tape. And yes,
I get it, it's the "death by a million paper cuts," not this one "failure" by Clay that contributed to the suicide... sure. But then, again, I hate how Clay gets so much shit from his classmates the whole season, the audience waits in anticipation for nothing,
and ultimately it makes the fact that we have to take a leap in logic for the sake of a show and accept he's gonna go through the tapes slowly, and insults us even more.
I get it, it's the "death by a million paper cuts," not this one "failure" by Clay that contributed to the suicide... sure. But then, again, I hate how Clay gets so much shit from his classmates the whole season, the audience waits in anticipation for nothing,
and ultimately it makes the fact that we have to take a leap in logic for the sake of a show and accept he's gonna go through the tapes slowly, and insults us even more.
Nah, I'm out.
Sunster
Member
I thought he got shit from them because he was the only one who was good to her. he made them see themselves for what they were. and it pissed them off.
Wasn't even the actual act that was messed up to watch.
It was the parents afterwards.
This seems to be a problem with most of the characters pertaining to the tapes really. In such a short timeframe of events, you would think a bunch of stuff on the tapes would already reflect on their personalities, but nope, they're completely different characters before and after their episode. It wouldn't be as problematic if not for the fact that they all already blew through the entire set before the season even started.
And yes, Clay's tape is kinda dumb when you think about the earlier episodes on hindsight.
The only person who really does the ominous "wait for your tape Clay" thing besides Tony is Marcus or Justin I believe, the others don't do that
I feel like you're really missing the point. The point, as I understood it, is that
both Hannah and Clay acted, just as you would expect someone in their position and with their experiences to act. Their reactions are normal, but it tragically adds up to a misunderstanding that tears them apart. The point isn't to make Clay feel badly about it, the point for Hannah is to apologize and explain why she reacted the way that she did.
Swass
Member
Haven't read through the thread yet, but just finished the show tonight, and let me start by saying that I really loved this show. The location, the changes in weather, the premise, the casting, everything was incredible.
I will say there seems to be continuity issues with the show..
The other thing I took issue with was
Wow, episode 13
Also see bright futures for the actors who played Clay and Tony.. these guys did a tremendous job.
I will say there seems to be continuity issues with the show..
what I mean by this is at times it feels like all the characters are discovering things at the same time Clay did even though they all heard the tapes well before he did.. the one glaring thing was tape 12.. In a discussion with my wife she seemed to disagree, I guess I would have to go back and rewatch since we the audience were finding out the same time as Clay was.
The other thing I took issue with was
how crazy these kids acted about their role in her death. While some did have reason to be worried about the tapes getting out, I felt some of these kids roles were paper thin to be acting like they should kill to keep them secret.
Wow, episode 13
had me in tears, and I'm not usually an emotional person over film and shows but showing her suicide while Clay explained how nobody tried hard enough to save her and her parents discovering her body really was one of the best but hardest to watch scenes I've ever seen.
Does it feel like they may make a sequel series to this show to anyone else..? Maybe Tyler's story with a take on another bullied kid who eventually decides to take a gun to school and go on a shooting spree..? Or how about Justin's story of being a runaway..? Or maybe the continuation of all their lives because the cast is superb and there were a ton of lose ends. I know this series was based off of a book so their may already be a continuation.. haven't checked.
Also see bright futures for the actors who played Clay and Tony.. these guys did a tremendous job.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Come up at the tail end and I agree with this.
My wife asked if I'd be interested in watching it and we've been basically binging our evening free time for the last few days.
Emotionally draining, but I think poignant in a way. Had me reflecting back on my experiences in high school.
I liked the show, but by the end I was feeling a bit fatigued with how much drama revolves around one girl.
Multiple characters hint at Clay having done something wrong.
Lack of
at the end was disappointing, and the
was frustrating.
The entire season could have been about a consistent string of bullying - which coincidentally is what makes the first few episodes so strong - but once it starts bringing multiple rapes into the picture, I started getting Grey's Anatomy flashbacks. The second rape in particular was a little silly - she goes to a party (which she was not invited to) hosted by a person she KNOWS is a rapist, at HIS house, stays late past when everyone else has left, like what the fuck do you expect?! If you know a person is dangerous, you stay the fuck away, you don't fucking go to their house.
Multiple characters hint at Clay having done something wrong.
Yet... not really?
They could have played off how he occasionally said some rude things to her, or especially that he never stepped up to the plate while all this shit was happening, yet he gets off scot-free.
They could have played off how he occasionally said some rude things to her, or especially that he never stepped up to the plate while all this shit was happening, yet he gets off scot-free.
Lack of
closure
sequel bait
indigo-cyclops
Member
Oh yea - some really great tunes on in the episodes.
I mean, dropping Joy Division, and some b-side/rarity Elliott Smith.
I've been thinking about it a bit more tonight and while I do have some issues with the plotting and character motivations, I don't think this romanticizes suicide in the least. It approaches it seriously, even if with the skewed perception of a teenager.
Skye ended up being a character I really wanted to know more about it. Reminded me a lot of my high school crush.
I mean, dropping Joy Division, and some b-side/rarity Elliott Smith.
I've been thinking about it a bit more tonight and while I do have some issues with the plotting and character motivations, I don't think this romanticizes suicide in the least. It approaches it seriously, even if with the skewed perception of a teenager.
Skye ended up being a character I really wanted to know more about it. Reminded me a lot of my high school crush.
They said all that so he wouldn't press on and listen to the rest of the tapes,
not to build anything up for the viewer. If you genuinely thought he'd done anything horrible to her then you weren't paying attention to his character at all. You could tell from the first episode how much he loved her.
not to build anything up for the viewer. If you genuinely thought he'd done anything horrible to her then you weren't paying attention to his character at all. You could tell from the first episode how much he loved her.
Anyway, this show was incredible for me. It hit me hard with the bullying, being someone who was bullied a fair bit in high school myself. As well as being a small, nerdy awkward guy like Clay. I had to hold back tears so many times, it was absolutely wrecking me.
The suicide scene was incredibly hard to sit through, and anyone who feels this show glorifies suicide needs to see that scene and how horrible it must be to do that to yourself.
This show will stick with me for a long time...
Holy shit in episode 13 (spoilers and House of Cards season 4 spoilers)
I totally thought the scene where Tyler packs his stuff is a connection to House of Cards, the kid who kills himself and donates his liver to Frank.. It's actually the same actor! And even the mothers calls sounded similar.
Left slightly disappointed.
Left slightly disappointed.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I was talking shit about this show earlier when I was only in episode 2, but I've come around on it. It's still goofy and contrived and inconsistent but by god it's earnest and, I think, very honest in exploring the core emotions of the show as it pertains to loss, grief, depression and trauma. It manipulates drama for plot in a very artificial way sometimes, but it's not really a big deal to me. Also, and this might be a common feeling, but I was 100% Clay in high school. I think probably most guys have felt like Clay at times but holy hell does it feel like looking in a timey-wimey mirror sometimes. So yeah, rough first couple of episodes, and overall it has pacing problems (a few too many episodes and they're all like 10 minutes too long) but I'm glad I stuck with it. It went from being a background watch while playing phone games to an actual proper "I'm gonna give this my full attention" watch, which is good. I just finished ep 11 btw.
RedAssedApe
Banned
hold onto your butt
Puck Beaverton
Banned
It's definitely noir, intentional or not.
FallingEdge
Member
finished this show
fuck the ending, give me season 2
Trigonometrize.
Member
Last episode
The counselor was comically incompetent. My roommates and I got to the point where we were pausing after every sentence he said to question why the fuck he has the job he has. After seeing what him and Bryce did, no one else even remotely belongs on those tapes.
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