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Apple September Event 2017 |OT| A Top-Notch Keynote

B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
SnakeXs said:
Do any trailers support HDR?
Click to expand...

on itunes? Unlikely. In general? Unsure, but first and foremost you'd need a delivery platform capable of HDR.

FWIW, I looked through my collection (~200 movies) and the only surprising movie (pre-late 00s) to show up in 4K was Ghostbusters 1984.

Hoping for new files down the road for catalog titles that we know are in 4K (Bond, Casablanca, etc)
 
D

dc89

Member
Deaf Spacker said:
Looks like I was right.
Click to expand...

GaNZf5l.png
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
So at £25/month is £600 for an 38mm Apple Watch LTE.

They're £400 direct from Apple so £200/24 months for the service comes in at just over £8/month.

Hmm. I am hoping that when the other carriers start offering it 3 have a £5/month deal. That's the max I'd pay.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Vivalaraza said:
So at £25/month is £600 for an 38mm Apple Watch LTE.

They're £400 direct from Apple so £200/24 months for the service comes in at just over £8/month.

Hmm. I am hoping that when the other carriers start offering it 3 have a £5/month deal. That's the max I'd pay.
Click to expand...

Its also £25 plus £129 down for the 42mm SS. The sport is bad value, but the SS is decent value
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
NYR said:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/16311440/ipad-pro-hdr-movies-itunes-4k

You need iOS 11 for HDR to work, and the resolution is 1080p, not 4K.

Verge did side by side and they said the difference was "stark".

I watched scenes from Logan, which supports the HDR10 format, and Kong: Skull Island, which is in Dolby Vision, on a 10.5-inch iPad Pro. Next to a 2015 12.9-inch iPad Pro, which doesn’t support HDR, the difference was often stark. The harsh Mexico sunlight in Logan’s early moments is far brighter in HDR, for example, while dark parts of the frame deliver much greater contrast. Skull Island, meanwhile, is a much more colorful movie in general, and effectively demonstrates the wider gamut of the 10.5-inch iPad Pro’s display. In comparison, the image on the older 12.9-inch iPad Pro appears washed out and flat.
Click to expand...

Wait what? Wow finally. After seeing the android phones getting youtube and Netflix HDR support I was wondering if there was an iOS limitation stopping it on iPad Pro.

Hopefully iOS 11 will see youtube, Netflix and amazon video updating to support HDR. Curious to try it out.
 
D

dc89

Member
Are all the SS watches LTE only now?

If so I find it quite interesting the step change Apple have made on the Watch since launching it. With the OG Apple Watch they clearly marketed the SS + Edition especially as a luxury watch first and a smart watch second. The first three adverts they did were all about the watch as a fashion item with a little bit of fitness tracking thrown in.

That is completely flipped now - the watch is seen as a fitness tracker or wearable piece of technology first and a luxury watch second. That's how I see it when they are making you take LTE on the stainless version if you want it or not.

I can't see myself 'upgrading' my OG 42mm SS for quite a while yet.
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
mrklaw said:
Wait what? Wow finally. After seeing the android phones getting youtube and Netflix HDR support I was wondering if there was an iOS limitation stopping it on iPad Pro.

Hopefully iOS 11 will see youtube, Netflix and amazon video updating to support HDR. Curious to try it out.
Click to expand...

trying this the minute I get home. I've never actually seen HDR content before :p

I have a 4K TV, but not HDR. So probably next month I'll grab the ATV 4K. Was happy to see Ghostbusters 2014 was upgraded.

dc89 said:
I can't see myself 'upgrading' my OG 42mm SS for quite a while yet.
Click to expand...

oh god... this thing is so slow... I already have a buyer lined up for $200... it's just getting the other $450 together. I love my OG SS... but it's definitely ready to be passed on.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
dc89 said:
Are all the SS watches LTE only now?

If so I find it quite interesting the step change Apple have made on the Watch since launching it. With the OG Apple Watch they clearly marketed the SS + Edition especially as a luxury watch first and a smart watch second. The first three adverts they did were all about the watch as a fashion item with a little bit of fitness tracking thrown in.

That is completely flipped now - the watch is seen as a fitness tracker or wearable piece of technology first and a luxury watch second. That's how I see it when they are making you take LTE on the stainless version if you want it or not.

I can't see myself 'upgrading' my OG 42mm SS for quite a while yet.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Apple arsed around with apps and significant OS updates so much I’ve basically given up on apps and only use my watch for notifications/replies and music controls. And for that the lowly series 0 is holding up fine. No interest to buy a series 3 and being forced into buying LTE if I want SS
 
J

jstripes

Banned
NYR said:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/16311440/ipad-pro-hdr-movies-itunes-4k

You need iOS 11 for HDR to work, and the resolution is 1080p, not 4K.

Verge did side by side and they said the difference was "stark".

I watched scenes from Logan, which supports the HDR10 format, and Kong: Skull Island, which is in Dolby Vision, on a 10.5-inch iPad Pro. Next to a 2015 12.9-inch iPad Pro, which doesn’t support HDR, the difference was often stark. The harsh Mexico sunlight in Logan’s early moments is far brighter in HDR, for example, while dark parts of the frame deliver much greater contrast. Skull Island, meanwhile, is a much more colorful movie in general, and effectively demonstrates the wider gamut of the 10.5-inch iPad Pro’s display. In comparison, the image on the older 12.9-inch iPad Pro appears washed out and flat.
Click to expand...
Given that the iPad is LCD, it's kinda garbage that they didn't enable HDR on the iPhone 8. But, they needed that to make the iPhone X stand out even more. :/
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
The iPhone 7 and 8 LCD supports DCI-P3 which is wider than sRGB/Rec.709 but not a full HDR format like Rec.2020 or Dolby Vision which is what the X supports.

Does that explain it to everyone?

colorgamuts.jpg
 
B

Battlezone

Member
NYR said:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/16311440/ipad-pro-hdr-movies-itunes-4k

You need iOS 11 for HDR to work, and the resolution is 1080p, not 4K.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there’s no way to download the movies in 4K resolution — you just get 1080p files with HDR color and contrast. The iPad Pro doesn’t have a 4K screen, no, but the panels in both models have resolutions greater than 1080p to the point where you’d notice a significant difference in quality from a 4K file.

There’s also seemingly no way to download these 4K files on a Mac running the latest version of iTunes, even one connected to the Apple-approved LG UltraFine 4K monitor. It's not clear whether the 4K or 5K iMacs will be able to play 4K movies from iTunes, either.
Click to expand...

Man, that's a bummer, if true. That could explain why the studios were okay with selling 4K movies at the 1080p price; the users were never going to be able to truly access those 4K assets. So are those 4K movies streaming only, then?
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Battlezone said:
Man, that's a bummer, if true. That could explain why the studios were okay with selling 4K movies at the 1080p price; the users were never going to be able to truly access those 4K assets. So are those 4K movies streaming only, then?
Click to expand...

No service except for Kaleidoscope allows you to download full bitrate versions of UHD movies.
The streaming version is the same as the one you'd download.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Battlezone said:
Man, that's a bummer, if true. That could explain why the studios were okay with selling 4K movies at the 1080p price; the users were never going to be able to truly access those 4K assets. So are those 4K movies streaming only, then?
Click to expand...
Looks like it. You will probably be streaming them at the same quality that you'd get to download in 4K if the downloads were allowed. Hopefully.
 
B

Battlezone

Member
dallow_bg said:
No service except for Kaleidoscope allows you to download full bitrate versions of UHD movies.
The streaming version is the same as the one you'd download.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure, I get it, and I'm not complaining. I've been thinking about moving away from Plex and leaning into iTunes, and this (outside of having to convert everything) might be impetus enough to do it, because I don't want to have to juggle assets between two apps.
 
G

giga

Member
Sir Abacus said:
The iPhone 7 and 8 LCD supports DCI-P3 which is wider than sRGB/Rec.709 but not a full HDR format like Rec.2020 or Dolby Vision which is what the X supports.

Does that explain it to everyone?

colorgamuts.jpg
Click to expand...

It doesn't make sense why they say P3 under the display specs then: https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/specs/

I'm wondering if these mobile HDR implementations aren't really the real thing in terms of the full specs.

Mobile HDR Premium: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138...vision-hdr10-and-mobile-hdr-premium-explained

Resolution: 60 pixels/degree
Dynamic range: .0005-550nits
Colour space: 90 per cent of P3 colour gamut
Bit depth: 10
 
NYR

NYR

Member
Battlezone said:
Man, that's a bummer, if true. That could explain why the studios were okay with selling 4K movies at the 1080p price; the users were never going to be able to truly access those 4K assets. So are those 4K movies streaming only, then?
Click to expand...

4K movies is made for Apple TV 4K, not for phones and iPads, most people who want 4K will buy an Apple TV 4K.

borghe said:
trying this the minute I get home. I've never actually seen HDR content before :p
Click to expand...
You need to wait for iOS 11.
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
In comparison, the image on the older 12.9-inch iPad Pro appears washed out and flat.

That flat profile does have its advantages, however — dark scenes in HDR can be difficult to see in a brightly lit room, whereas movies encoded in standard dynamic range don’t crush the detail as much. The 10.5-inch iPad Pro’s LCD is best in class, but it can’t compete with OLED when it comes to black levels and contrast.
Click to expand...

Okay, so the crushed blacks in John Wick weren’t just me
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
Sir Abacus said:
The iPhone 7 and 8 LCD supports DCI-P3 which is wider than sRGB/Rec.709 but not a full HDR format like Rec.2020 or Dolby Vision which is what the X supports.

Does that explain it to everyone?

colorgamuts.jpg
Click to expand...
Eh, manufacturers use the HDR term a little too loosely. There's really nothing out (not even TVs) that supports full Rec.2020 color space yet AFAIK (DV is not a color space).

I'd guess Apple doesn't list the 8 as an HDR display either because it's not 10-bit, or it can't hit the higher contrast values (due to poorer black levels than OLED, max brightness seems ok). It's interesting the 10.5 iPad Pro seems to be supported, however.
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
NYR said:
4K movies is made for Apple TV 4K, not for phones and iPads, most people who want 4K will buy an Apple TV 4K.


You need to wait for iOS 11.
Click to expand...
Correct. Guys, you can download 4K on Apple TV 4K. The problem they’re talking about is,only the iPad Pro.

And I have iOS 11GM. Started Logan.. eh... think I need to try another one. Will give BvS a shot. I mean it looks great. But I guess I’d have to compare it to a non HDR version.
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
borghe said:
Correct. Guys, you can download 4K on Apple TV 4K. The problem they're talking about is,only the iPad Pro.

And I have iOS 11GM. Started Logan.. eh... think I need to try another one. Will give BvS a shot. I mean it looks great. But I guess I'd have to compare it to a non HDR version.
Click to expand...

Apple TV lets you download now?
EDIT: I think we're all talking about streaming only.

So the iPad Pros won't stream the 4K version?
I realize you can't download them for offline viewing.
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
dallow_bg said:
Apple TV lets you download now?
EDIT: I think we're all talking about streaming only.

So the iPad Pros won't stream the 4K version?
I realize you can't download them for offline viewing.
Click to expand...

AppleTV will let you stream in 4K/HDR, the iPad Pros will let you download in HDR but not stream (from what I can tell from the setting? Haven’t tested it)
 
M

Mr. Wonderful

Member
btrboyev said:
So the screens on the new phones aren't 120hz like the iPad pro's?
Click to expand...

Nope. Maybe next year. It's worth noting that if you're coming from a Plus, the screen will no longer be downscaling every frame with the X, which will reduce rendering time and may make things seem slightly more responsive/fluid.
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
NYR said:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/16311440/ipad-pro-hdr-movies-itunes-4k

You need iOS 11 for HDR to work, and the resolution is 1080p, not 4K.

Verge did side by side and they said the difference was "stark".

I watched scenes from Logan, which supports the HDR10 format, and Kong: Skull Island, which is in Dolby Vision, on a 10.5-inch iPad Pro. Next to a 2015 12.9-inch iPad Pro, which doesn't support HDR, the difference was often stark. The harsh Mexico sunlight in Logan's early moments is far brighter in HDR, for example, while dark parts of the frame deliver much greater contrast. Skull Island, meanwhile, is a much more colorful movie in general, and effectively demonstrates the wider gamut of the 10.5-inch iPad Pro's display. In comparison, the image on the older 12.9-inch iPad Pro appears washed out and flat.
Click to expand...

dallow_bg said:
And the iPad download is 1080P with HDR. (which in and of itself is interesting)
Click to expand...


I disagree with them that it's downloading the 1080p version instead of 4K. John Wick in 1080p in iTunes is 3.93GB, John Wick downloaded to my iPad Pro in HDR is 5.39GB. There's no way the HDR metadata takes up that much extra space, and the 1080p version isn't using the HEVC compression that the 4K files certainly are, which would explain the modest, but not 4x, gain in file size.

Edit: turned off the option to download in HDR and it downloaded in 3.93GB, exactly what the 1080p version would download as. So either with the HDR option on it's downloading the 4K version, or HDR metadata actually does take up almost 2GB, which seems crazy to me but I don't know anything about that stuff, size-wise.
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Zeyphersan said:
I disagree with them that it's downloading the 1080p version instead of 4K. John Wick in 1080p in iTunes is 3.93GB, John Wick downloaded to my iPad Pro in HDR is 5.39GB. There's no way the HDR metadata takes up that much extra space, and the 1080p version isn't using the HEVC compression that the 4K files certainly are, which would explain the modest, but not 4x, gain in file size.

Edit: turned off the option to download in HDR and it downloaded in 3.93GB, exactly what the 1080p version would download as. So either with the HDR option on it's downloading the 4K version, or HDR metadata actually does take up almost 2GB, which seems crazy to me but I don't know anything about that stuff, size-wise.
Click to expand...

Thanks for testing that, very interesting!
 
M

Mr. Wonderful

Member
Zeyphersan said:
I disagree with them that it's downloading the 1080p version instead of 4K. John Wick in 1080p in iTunes is 3.93GB, John Wick downloaded to my iPad Pro in HDR is 5.39GB. There's no way the HDR metadata takes up that much extra space, and the 1080p version isn't using the HEVC compression that the 4K files certainly are, which would explain the modest, but not 4x, gain in file size.

Edit: turned off the option to download in HDR and it downloaded in 3.93GB, exactly what the 1080p version would download as. So either with the HDR option on it's downloading the 4K version, or HDR metadata actually does take up almost 2GB, which seems crazy to me but I don't know anything about that stuff, size-wise.
Click to expand...

It's not just "metadata". It's 10-bit, WCG color, right?
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Sir Abacus said:
The iPhone 7 and 8 LCD supports DCI-P3 which is wider than sRGB/Rec.709 but not a full HDR format like Rec.2020 or Dolby Vision which is what the X supports.

Does that explain it to everyone?

colorgamuts.jpg
Click to expand...
Every screen I viewed this diagram on I can see all the colors even outside the Rec.2020 triangle. I must have some pretty great screens 👍


/s
 
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