Then what can I say. This is the first time I heard someone say that they just cant stand 30fps even when trying to do so.
I'm not gonna say you are wrong then, but I'm pretty surprised : /
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Arcade racing fans are currently enjoying an embarrassment of riches
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
Then what can I say. This is the first time I heard someone say that they just cant stand 30fps even when trying to do so.
I'm not gonna say you are wrong then, but I'm pretty surprised : /
On another note, I would absolutely love a San Francisco Rush collection on XBLA / PSN if the 3 arcade games were properly ported or at least emulated extremely well.
San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing (1996) and San Francisco Rush the Rock - Alcatraz Edition (1997) were both 30 FPS in the arcades. They ran on Atari's Flagstaff Hardware (MIPS R5000 200MHz CPU + 3DFX FBI with 2MB frame buffer, 2 x 3DFX TMU with 4MB texture memory.) which was more silicon than a consumer Voodoo Graphics card).
Rush The Rock on Midway Arcade Treasures 3 for PS2, GameCube, original Xbox and the Windows PC version ran at 60 FPS (solid 60fps on Xbox and GGN) however everything else about all 3 versions screamed terrible emulation. The controls and especially the sound was so awfully emulated.
San Francisco Rush 2049, Rush 2049 Special Edition and Rush 2049 TE ran on the Atari Denver Hardware (MIPS RM5000 + 3DFX Voodoo 3). This time the arcade versions were 60 FPS. Although the Dreamcast port added a ton of modes and may have had sharper textures / better IQ, the polygon count was somewhat lower (among other differences to the tracks maybe?) and the remade Alcatraz track for the arcade version was missing on Dreamcast.
Who wouldn't love a San Francisco Rush HD collection with a 30 FPS / 60 FPS option for the first two games?
Rush the Rock Alcatraz Edition sales video (240p)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7gyUDDZ2LI
ScoreGround - Arcade - San Francisco Rush The Rock: 00:05:8.62 (720p HD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3CJI5ZvbXw
.
scoreground's Youtube channel has a ton of great SF Rush videos
San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing (1996) and San Francisco Rush the Rock - Alcatraz Edition (1997) were both 30 FPS in the arcades. They ran on Atari's Flagstaff Hardware (MIPS R5000 200MHz CPU + 3DFX FBI with 2MB frame buffer, 2 x 3DFX TMU with 4MB texture memory.) which was more silicon than a consumer Voodoo Graphics card).
Rush The Rock on Midway Arcade Treasures 3 for PS2, GameCube, original Xbox and the Windows PC version ran at 60 FPS (solid 60fps on Xbox and GGN) however everything else about all 3 versions screamed terrible emulation. The controls and especially the sound was so awfully emulated.
San Francisco Rush 2049, Rush 2049 Special Edition and Rush 2049 TE ran on the Atari Denver Hardware (MIPS RM5000 + 3DFX Voodoo 3). This time the arcade versions were 60 FPS. Although the Dreamcast port added a ton of modes and may have had sharper textures / better IQ, the polygon count was somewhat lower (among other differences to the tracks maybe?) and the remade Alcatraz track for the arcade version was missing on Dreamcast.
Who wouldn't love a San Francisco Rush HD collection with a 30 FPS / 60 FPS option for the first two games?
Rush the Rock Alcatraz Edition sales video (240p)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7gyUDDZ2LI
ScoreGround - Arcade - San Francisco Rush The Rock: 00:05:8.62 (720p HD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3CJI5ZvbXw
.
scoreground's Youtube channel has a ton of great SF Rush videos
This thread would've only been two pages if he'd just said "I don't like 30fps because it's unbearable but I understand why it's fun for everyone else" rather than try and convince everyone that 30fps titles should die in a fire.
Or the new Batman racer in arcades. Damn.
No, it doesn't mean a game is trash and not worth playing. However, for an individual person, they may truly not see a point in playing it over other already existing games that do fill the criteria they desire. I'm pretty sure there's a good number of games you choose to pass on for reasons that are unimportant to those that choose to play and enjoy them. That doesn't make your reasons invalid. I tend to pass on the majority of FPS games, as I vastly prefer arena based deathmatch games like Quake 3 and UT, as opposed to larger spaces in game like BF4, or games with low TTK, no real map control, limited traversal options, etc. For many other people these things are not only not a problem, they huge plusses... to the point where the type of FPS I enjoy is rapidly dying out (Halo 5 beta is giving me hope though). I don't think I'm being unreasonable choosing not to simply adapt and make do with most of the modern offerings. I'll just stick to what I know I enjoy, and hope for more like it in the future. After all, that what every one else is doing, otherwise they'd also be giving the games I like more of a look, and they wouldn't be dying, right?
Also getting used to 30fps is definitely possible, but still generally means you're playing a game with a very different focus regardless, so you may still simply not like that type of game anyway. You're also assuming an arcade racer fan trying to enjoy Horizon 2 or Driveclub, won't keep returning to Daytona USA, Ridge Racer or whatever, and having their perception of 30fps reset continuously. I know that definitely happens to me, and I'm not willing to cease playing games I loved for decades just to make 30fps my new standard.
Also, a game not being suited for 30fps isn't necessarily the result of the developers being bad. Not every game can be repurposed to play as well at 30fps, without sacrificing the feel of the game in general. When Sumo made Sonic Transformed, they weren't "bad developers" because the game didn't feel right at 30fps... the game simply needed to be 60fps. Their only real failing was the framerate itself, not the game designed around it.
Finally, I have a question for you. Did you pick up Daytona USA, Outrun 2, Ridge Racer 7, and so on? If there's any of these you chose not to purchase, could you explain why? I'd like to see how valid your reasons are.
Yeah, the lack of splitscreen almost everywhere is a serious fuck up the arse.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Or Dirty Drivin'. All of the Raw Thrills arcade racers run at 60 FPS, too, so there's that.
I also second a notion for porting the San Francisco Rush games to modern consoles and Steam. Give me arcade perfect ports of Rush The Rock and Rush 2049 SE, with online, and I'll be very happy.
I think the only reason why the Midway Arcade Treasures 3 version of Rush the Rock was bad was because the source code may have been lost, though. I do have a Youtube link of someone who hacked the GameCube version to have the original music and sound effects, though.
thewhitehawk
Member
The rain effect is neat but the lighting makes the whole thing look very unrealistic. Feels like the world is made of reflective plastic.
This guy hasn't played it. Lol.
He will say he has though.
Stuttering frame rate? Lol again.
Wow either you and that other guy I quoted are pc snobs or console warriors. What released racing game recently appeals to you?
Just Hot Pursuit and The Crew.
Thankfully, PC gamers are currently enjoying an embarrassment of riches in the sim racing category. Especially if they've got an Oculus Rift headset.
Visualante2
Member
This thread is like one of those mirages you see in the desert when you are dying of thirst.
nkarafo
Member
Never said i played it. But i've seen it running on real hardware (no videos).
I used the wrong word. Should have said choppy. Fixed it now. Sorry for my English.
Nice labeling. And what are you?
Ingueferroque
Banned
So you admit to not having played it.. yet you still go on about it having a choppy framerate? Say anything about DC.. but it runs at a rock-solid 30fps. Rain or not.
It could be amazing on current gen hardware.
nkarafo
Member
I'm pretty sure you can notice the frame rate by watching someone else play the game.
Yes it runs at rock-solid 30fps. Never claimed the opposite. Still, 30fps is not enough for me in racing games. I find it choppy. Sorry.
+1
Ingueferroque
Banned
nkarafo
Member
Um... ummmm...
What?
...Excuse me. What's the right word to describe a frame rate that is not fast/smooth enough?
Ingueferroque
Banned
Stuttering and Choppy both indicate that the framerate is inconsistent, it is not.
Choppy is fine.
Stuttering does. Choppy seems clear enough to me... regardless, you know what he means.
Slow. Stuttery would imply the framerate is very variable with frequent pauses, as would choppy to a lesser degree.
30fps is choppy compared to 60fps, nothing wrong with the wording.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Seriously guys? It being 30 or 60fps does not mean its automatically choppy.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choppy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choppy
nkarafo
Member
Alright, its not inconsistent. We established that already. Many times.
Its still not smooth though (for me).
For instance, a "rock-solid" "consistent" 10fps rate that never drops frames doesn't mean is smooth. It means its steady. And consistent. But not smooth/fast. That's a different aspect.
After what number a frame rate is smooth/fast enough is a matter of opinion/perspective. You find that 30fps in a racing game is smooth. I don't. Its simple as that.
It does not mean its automatically smooth either. Its a subjective thing.
Defender of a game I love I guess. Edit: Nevermind.
Back on topic though. As much as I adore DC, I long for the days when Sega's arcade teams were cranking out amazing arcade racers. It's threads like this that remind me of what we've lost as gamers.
nkarafo
Member
Right, now my avatar is smug? What else offends you about me? How about the nick name? Is it alright?
Edit: I see it was a misunderstanding, all good then.
Also, what gave you the idea that i'm talking about DC exclusively? Read my older posts before saying things like that. I'm talking about all racing games in general. And this topic claims that i, as an arcade racing fan, i'm "enjoying an embarrassment of riches". So i explained my self why this is not the case.
I could care less about DC.
And i agree with the second part of your post.
Ingueferroque
Banned
How can I help?
Who's "smug avatar" guy? Is that me? I don't think my avatar's looking very smug... but then I can't think who else you may be referring to.
Anyway, Our agenda here would be to state that as "arcade racing fans" we heavily disagree with the OP, and also that we don't think something that's such a core part of an arcade racing experience (60fps) should be disregarded simply because you may like games that don't require it. leng jai responded to the first post about 60fps with "60FPS is dead in this gen, give it up mate
"... he's right, 60fps is dead in this gen, much like arcade racers.I'm not sure why you're turning this isn't a vs Driveclub argument now though. This isn't about Driveclub specifically. You could put any 30fps simcade racer in the OP (and OP actually contains my favourite racer of the year), the point still remains.
EDIT: Oh I see who you're referring to now.
That avatar doesn't look very smug to me either though.
I said the other guy with the smug avatar I also quoted above. I'm sorry for the confusion about that I'll edit it. I have nothing against you personally. This is about games.
Yeah looking back you are right. I kinda lumped you and the other guy together unfairly.
So apologies to you on all counts good sir.
Who's "smug avatar" guy? Is that me? I don't think my avatar's looking very smug... but then I can't think who else you may be referring to.
Anyway, Our agenda here would be to state that as "arcade racing fans" we heavily disagree with the OP, and also that we don't think something that's such a core part of an arcade racing experience (60fps) should be disregarded simply because you may like games that don't require it. leng jai responded to the first post about 60fps with "60FPS is dead in this gen, give it up mate
I'm not sure why you're turning this isn't a vs Driveclub argument now though. This isn't about Driveclub specifically. You could put any 30fps simcade racer in the OP (and OP actually contains my favourite racer of the year), the point still remains.
Sorry it wasn't you. I edited my post. I'll be more careful and specific in future posts.
nkarafo
Member
Apologies accepted and thank you.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Late to the party, and I'm pretty sure it's been covered, but embarrassment of riches? I wish that was the case.
DriveClub, Horizon 2 and The Crew fits into a modern definition of "arcade" racer, but even if you want to count that, look no further than 2010, where we got Blur, Split Second, NFS Hot Pursuit, Modnation AND Sonic All Star. This year is just on par with previous highs, and these entries we're getting are duller and less interesting.
Where are my SF Rush, the Extreme G, or god dammit even Ridge Racer. I'll even take Unbounded...
DriveClub, Horizon 2 and The Crew fits into a modern definition of "arcade" racer, but even if you want to count that, look no further than 2010, where we got Blur, Split Second, NFS Hot Pursuit, Modnation AND Sonic All Star. This year is just on par with previous highs, and these entries we're getting are duller and less interesting.
Where are my SF Rush, the Extreme G, or god dammit even Ridge Racer. I'll even take Unbounded...
No problems, I probably would have replied even if I didn't think your post was intended for me.
jadedm17
Member
Sigh. Paradise was great but I'd love another Takedown.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Digging up old posts is the single creepiest fucking shit on this site. How people have time to dig through someone's post history just because theyre making a different point?
Gtfoh with this creep ass shit
Late 80s through 90s. That was an embarrassment of riches.
Would those Sega arcade games sell today? No. Driveclub is repeatedly referred to as barebones as an example. I don't think that racers like that would do well outside of being a small $15 game.
If it isn't open world and or with 500 cars and huge customization it will get knocked. I think that's sad.
Edit: I'd love another 60fps hydro thunder with wicked wave physics made possible with today's hardware. That would be great.
Would those Sega arcade games sell today? No. Driveclub is repeatedly referred to as barebones as an example. I don't think that racers like that would do well outside of being a small $15 game.
If it isn't open world and or with 500 cars and huge customization it will get knocked. I think that's sad.
Edit: I'd love another 60fps hydro thunder with wicked wave physics made possible with today's hardware. That would be great.
Sega arcade games didn't really sell that well at home. They made their money in arcades, outside of movie theaters, where they weren't priced like home games, but were rather $0.50 per pop experiences.
I think something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnYCgUj6jlU
especially combined with virtual reality, could still be a smash hit. It's not really feasible to expect someone to be able to produce an experience like this at home currently. It would really depend on where these types of machines were positioned.
nkarafo
Member
We're not doing that well regardless of which type of racer we're talking about. One good/great racer per platform (2 for X1 if counting FM5) is hardly a "never had it better" scenario.
Again, when I said "currently" I meant at this point in time. Having two racers of this calibre within a month or so is an embarrassment of riches to me. How many games at once do you really need, especially for highly repayable racers? This should last most people months. If we go into Q2 next year with nothing new then yeah, not so good. By then this thread wouldn't be applicable anyway, I'm not talking about being set for years.
Ok, sure. Seems awfully specific to the point where I'm not sure how worthy of a thread it is, but fair enough. The period covering FH2 to DC release is pretty good. Not as good as getting the original Forza Horizon and then Sonic Transformed back to back (without needing to purchase two new, and rather expensive consoles to play them)... but definitely not the same sort of sad scenario that the thread initially came across as.
Dreams-Visions
Member
talking about racing games but not about racing wheels seems to be just cause to call bullshit.
GT3 still remains my pinnacle for real racing, and I have yet to play a better "arcade" racing game than Burnout Revenge/Paradise.
Talking about racing games while playing them with a controller is like playing flight sims and playing with a keyboard & mouse. Sorry, but it doesn't even qualify.
GT3 still remains my pinnacle for real racing, and I have yet to play a better "arcade" racing game than Burnout Revenge/Paradise.
Talking about racing games while playing them with a controller is like playing flight sims and playing with a keyboard & mouse. Sorry, but it doesn't even qualify.
I'd like to see some stats on how many people actually use wheels. For arcade racers especially the numbers must be miniscule. I've got a G27 which I rarely use because I simply cannot hook it up comfortably in my current environment.
Wheel compatibility on current gen consoles looks dire.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Trackmania 2 is incredible
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Driveclub might be the best racing game ever made. Dead serious
This is just ridiculous.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
why? i've never had more fun with one so....
It's believable. They've nailed a niche formula that really resonates with some people.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Yea, I'm not saying the game is without flaws but to me if has the most satisfying physics I've played in a racer. Add in the super fast and slick presentation, amazing sense of speed, top notch track design, skill based gameplay and challenging AI, addicting challenges and social interaction, multi player that makes me seriously lol at times and now the weater update. Yea, I've never been more impressed and had more fun with a racing game.