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[SomTervo]

I'm not so sure... did white nationalist movements in the 70s and 80s contain a disproportionate numbers of D&D players or comic book geeks or Star Trek/Wars fans?

The point is that it's disillusioned people in micro social circles that get "drafted", not that it's just "nerds". I'd wager the same description goes for those in the 70s/80s/throughout history. The alienated get angry. Understandably.

The point of the whole thread is that "gamers" fall easily into the "disillusioned people in micro social circles" category. Which is a tragic truth, really.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't think the qualifier is necessary.

You can easily radicalise actually oppressed people too.

Okay fair. That's actually a topic I do have a lot of thoughts about but might not be germane to the current conversation

 

[nacimento]

I'm not sure if that's the case. Apart from the current alt-right movement most far right tendencies were among other groups which had nothing to do with gaming or the internet. I mean, the world's biggest far right groups are some fundamentalist religious groups, where most probably never gamed an hour in their lives.

Sure it's easier for a guy in liberal places like NY to come into contact with far right ideas if he's a lot on the internet, but at the same time I believe that this same guy if he lived in more right wing places like a rural town in the south would be more likely to be to the left of the local mainstream. So I think that is more that more internet/less social people have a higher chance of having a non-local political alignation, since they come more into touch with those.

 

[Zakalwe]

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gamergate proves that radical right-wing ideals are not some fringe thing, they are EVERYWHERE in the gaming community. Gaf is a well-moderated site that shuts that shit down but go to reddit or gamefaqs and you'll see it.

Indeed. It's rife has hell and it's extremely overt in almost every gaming community outside of gaf.

 

[komorebi]

Every ideology can suck people in regardless of what hobbies they have. Including your ideologies, Lime, many of which I do not share.

Earth is more confused than ever and it's creating strange schisms. People are being manipulated. People are hurt, tired, scared, angry. Above all, most people want to feel like they belong and are a part of the "right way to be, think, and do". This makes a lot of people, especially gamers who can be and usually are loners and dreamers, susceptible to various ideologies.

Thankfully many people help each other wake up out of their confusion and sometimes outright misplaced hatred. We have to do this for each other as hard as it is sometimes. Even if only a little progress is made. We are all constantly changing and growing past our various delusions. What we believed yesterday is not necessarily what we believe today, and this is very important to remember. Our interactions do affect each other and we have to just stay the course in what each of us feel is the right way to go about things. It wears on me because people are so passionate about whatever beliefs they have and it's difficult to navigate their sometimes imaginary enemies and strawmen logic. I prefer to do my part in person one on one, when I can. NOT over the internet in text, that's for sure.

I learned that lesson when I was a young man in the early 00s and very passionate. I was seeing and learning lots of things for the first time and I was on fire. Very angry, very point-my-finger-at-the-world. As I got older I've tried to get a grip so that I can be a better help to those that cross my path. And in those 13-15 years my own ideologies have changed drastically. I imagine everyone else is juggling the same general unfolding of their own lives.

But on top of this, video games are just a personal hobby/escape from the "real world". I don't really care about gamer culture or consider myself a part of it other than I'm here goofing off with the rest of you

 

[The Omega Man]

I'm not so sure... did white nationalist movements in the 70s and 80s contain a disproportionate numbers of D&D players or comic book geeks or Star Trek/Wars fans?

how was the internet and animu back in those days?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

"Involuntary celibate", literally people who believe its an injustice that other people won't have sex with them

This plus "equality = oppression" (thinking life is a zero sum game), plus children who grew up in a culture of fear post-9/11, plus toxic masculinity equals a recipe for a reactionary mindset.


It should also be clear that Gamergate was a founding pillar of the current neo-nazi movement (aka the alt-right).

 

[Cymbal Head]

Given the multitudinous examples just right here on GAF showing that a whole lot of gamers can't fathom the idea that ideology seeps into every piece of media and that they will in fact freak out when someone suggest they become a critical consumer, yes, I'd say gamers probably are particularly susceptible to the kinds of messaging that tend to find their way into "nonpolitical" games and game discussions.

 

[Alo0oy]

I'm not American, but I spend most of my gaming discussion time in American-based communities. And over the past ~2 years, I found out that the vast majority of them hate me just because of where I'm from. 90% of my gaming Youtube subcriptions also turned out to be run by bigots or don't mind bigotry.

So yeah, American gamers seem to be particularly drawn to far right ideology.

 

[Jumeira]

This seems very, very likely. Especially dangerous now that reclusive inviduals like some gamers subscribe to feeds and obsess over random Wikipedia pages to formulate thier worldview without stepping out to learn from experience or get the opportunity to challenge thier linear line of thinking.

 

[The Technomancer]

Sure of course. My point was that if the "influencers" in gaming are largely liberals, wouldn't the ideology that gamers are exposed to most be liberal ideology? or are we suggesting that gamers find far-right ideology more attractive to them than liberalism?

I mean, my honest assessment is that the vast majority of "gamers" are apolitical in the way that most people are broadly apolitical, supporting one team or another for vaguely defined reasons, with your normal proportions of genuine conservatives and progressives among them. But I think that inside gamer and geek spaces there are festering communities of right wing ideology that are actively recruiting and I do think that those spaces are more susceptible to that behavior than say, the online cooking communities, or forums about woodworking, or even film enthusiast communities frankly

 

[SomTervo]

Given the multitudinous examples just right here on GAF showing that a whole lot of gamers can't fathom the idea that ideology seeps into every piece of media and that they will in fact freak out when someone suggest they become a critical consumer, yes, I'd say gamers probably are particularly susceptible to the kinds of messaging that tend to find their way into "nonpolitical" games and game discussions.

Heh, yeah.



*smacks head off desk*

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Sure of course. My point was that if the "influencers" in gaming are largely liberals, wouldn't the ideology that gamers are exposed to most be liberal ideology? or are we suggesting that gamers find far-right ideology more attractive to them than liberalism?

No, I think we're suggesting that the "influencers" you imagine don't have the influence you think they do.

Think about how much exposure you, as a person on the internet who likes games enough to join NeoGAF, get to the thinking and sentiments of game creators versus game consumers. I know I certainly see far, far more of the thinking of actual gamers than I do the people who make them, and that thinking is increasingly dominated (not here, thankfully) by bullshit ideologies built around acting like scared children who are getting their toys taken away.

 

[what-ok]

That's absolutely true. Hate begets hate, and those people live in a very toxic environment.

Agreed. I hope that they find some sort of happiness within themselves, but I feel it would be unjust for me to think they should change. It is easy to think that there is a right and wrong path. The truth is that the path you are on is yours regardless of labels and what you do with it is your message to the world. I choose love and compassion and when I look around I see lots of suffering yet love and compassion surrounds me.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

So my bro is a liberal.

He started posting alt right stuff because he went to a social event and said something without thinking and was accused of racism and so he went on a "free speech" bender and found a home online with these types of people. He started repeating their rhetoric. Got super interested in free speech rights in NYC towards transgender tenants. He lives in Tennessee.

All because he was embarrassed in a social situation and found people telling him what he wanted to hear who then directed his energy towards their own agenda.

Great post. An event like that could mess with a young person's head, and instead of accepting the mistake and learning from it, they deceive themselves, convincing themselves that they were wronged and finding reinforcement for that self deception in alt right messaging.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I envision a lot of gamers as loaners and socially awkward, so I can certainly see them falling in with the wrong crowds.

 

[Boss Man]

If anything, "gamers" may be more susceptible to extreme ideologies in general but far left seems a lot more common than far right.

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't think they're any more susceptible to far-right ideology than they are to far-left ideology.

I mean, just look at GAF.

GAF is an anomaly. I'd say most gamers/geeks/nerds ect are left leaning.

People are bringing up examples of GG as to how that isn't true, but amongst my friends and groups I've been a part of I'm the only one who even knows what GG was. All of my friends are totally unaware that GG even happened.

Even then, most gamers didn't take a side during GG. Most were neutral or didn't care either way.

 

[pashmilla]

If anything, "gamers" are more susceptible to extreme ideologies in general but far left seems a lot more common than far right.

show me the receipts. the idea that most gamers are bastions of tolerance is very amusing to me

 

[Sai-kun]

Sure of course. My point was that if the "influencers" in gaming are largely liberals, wouldn't the ideology that gamers are exposed to most be liberal ideology? or are we suggesting that gamers find far-right ideology more attractive to them than liberalism?

I think the best evidence that this isn't true is that when any developer even mentions politics and seems slightly left wing, a torrent of people come out of the wood work to tell them to 'stick to making games' and to 'stay out of politics'.

 

[stuminus3]

Some, yes. It's certainly been quite a shock to me after almost 40 years to find out so many people who you'd think have empathy due to their more... 'alternative' lifestyle, shall we say... are actually massive shitheads. I thought we were the enlightened ones.

With that being said, certain people (especially in a certain age range where they're especially impressionable) are susceptible to believing any old bollocks, and no doubt the cheerleaders of certain nasty ideologies have taken advantage of that.

 

[Tokubek]

So yeah, American gamers seem to be particularly drawn to far right ideology.

I wouldn't say that. Hate breeds hate regardless of nation/religion/sex/etc. Though depending on where one hangs out online it varies in its scope.

 

[akidnamededdy]

yes, the hivemind known as NeoGAF.com is just one step away from violent socialist revolution

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.

GAF isn't far-left. It's centrist with a slightly left meaning.

I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

 

[105.Will]

They do bring up a good point. I was pretty depressed for a few years and while I personally didn't feel more susceptible to these ideals, I can see how someone would be. I would never let this happen to some one I know.

 

[cubicle47b]

I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

The Democratic party is moderate left, not far left.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

At least the new Neo-Nazi army would be pathetic and weak as fuck

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Agreed. I hope that they find some sort of happiness within themselves, but I feel it would be unjust for me to think they should change. It is easy to think that there is a right and wrong path.

I don't necessarily would say they have to change, it's just that those people who are susceptible to propaganda don't really know who they are, so they pick what seems will make them a strong person. And for the people in toxic environments, while they do have hate within themselves, they have to stop feeding it, so that they will stop spreading it around.

 

[Corpekata]

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.



I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

Do you actually think Hillary Clinton is far left?

 

[martino]

a beautifull case of niche generalization
or i need data showing portion of gamer meting all conditions there is a majority.
it's so easy to fall into this sophism.

 

[Zafir]

I think it's more that gamers probably spend more time on the internet, and spreading hate views is a lot easier on the internet since the audience is larger as well as there being less repercussions(No risk of being punched in the face!).

 

[Orayn]

The Democratic party is moderate left, not far left.

At this point they're basically just pro-choice, pro-gay Republicans who are really good at losing elections. There is no left in America.

 

[Dahaka]

No no, incels believe the government should be giving them women to rape. Like full on red pill crazy.

Damn, I need quotes. I mean there are lot of dumb movements like those hardcore PU guys or general defensive/nihilistic attitudes that weren't needed in the many decades before when people knew how to talk each other and get married one day but that's gotta be a troll site.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.



I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

Hillary Clinton herself was centrist with a slightly left leaning, at best.

 

[TetraxShards]

Sure of course. My point was that if the "influencers" in gaming are largely liberals, wouldn't the ideology that gamers are exposed to most be liberal ideology? or are we suggesting that gamers find far-right ideology more attractive to them than liberalism?

Even if they do put in a message, you can still skip the cutscenes.

 

[Ferr986]

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.



I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

I'm still amazed how still this many US people think Hillary is far-left. Hillary would be centrist to right winged in Europe.

 

[Alo0oy]

I wouldn't say that. Hate breeds hate regardless of nation/religion/sex/etc. Though depending on where one hangs out online it varies in its scope.

I obviously can't speak in regards to other communities, my main language is Arabic and my second is English, so I have only participated in communities that speak those two languages.

 

[Eumi]

The title is stupid but the actual content of the OP is spot on. There's nothing about the hobby inherently that pushes gamers towards the alt right, but rather there is an overlap that shouldn't be ignored. It's the same place the 'anime avatar' thing comes from.

It's why diversity in games is so important. Gamers are often especially susceptible to racist and misogynistic ideals, and as such having games themselves push against this is what's going to help stop this.

 

[AmuroChan]

No, I think we're suggesting that the "influencers" you imagine don't have the influence you think they do.

Think about how much exposure you, as a person on the internet who likes games enough to join NeoGAF, get to the thinking and sentiments of game creators versus game consumers. I know I certainly see far, far more of the thinking of actual gamers than I do the people who make them, and that thinking is increasingly dominated (not here, thankfully) by bullshit ideologies built around acting like scared children who are getting their toys taken away.

For me personally, my political ideology is influenced far more by the gaming journalists, devs, and personalities that I follow on social media than gamers on forums. Simple reason being that the people that I follow are people whose works and opinions I've read and seen and come to respect. A tweet about a social issue from a game dev that I've followed for years will certainly have more influence on me that a random post on Gaf from a person I don't know.

 

[akidnamededdy]

The Democratic party is moderate left, not far left.

It's not like there was more than one Democratic party choice on the ballot in November. No matter how far left of center one may be, they're gonna vote for the one person the Democrats put up there.

Spoiler

Unless they're SUPER salty Bernie bros, I guess.

I'm not a fan of the two party system.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Its scary how true that comment is, Hell I almost went down that road its truly terrifying.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Sure, but we're talking about those who identify as "gamers" which is the geekier side. The average person who plays video games isn't this.

If we're talking about people who identify with their hobby that strongly, then we're talking about seriously damaged people who can (and will) fall into any radical ideology. So basically, I agree with the OP if that's who we're talking about.

I just stopped thinking of gamers as being the geeky loner for whatever reason. Everybody plays games. Why should those geeks be the ones who define that term?

 

[Harmen]

Yeah, there are, unfortunately. I think we have seen plenty of shitstorms lately indicating just that.



Also, on a sidenote. Pewdiepie made some awful jokes but Jontron legit supports Trump and the likes (his twitter feed, ugh). I personally think there is a major difference between that.

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't think the qualifier is necessary.

You can easily radicalise actually oppressed people too.

The sociopolitical dynamics of American society make it impressively hard to do that on any comparative scale like what we're seeing with the rise of far-right white nationalist ideology. Social minorities have the benefit of shared community united by the binding universality of being a minority without a cultural precedent for institutional scapegoating, half because the numbers, political power, and overall messaging game aren't in anyone's favor to facilitate actually implementing systemic oppression of white men even if we wanted to, and also because there's a unique understanding and thus empathy regarding the dangers of this behavior because minorities experience it firsthand, meaning we don't feel like doing the same to anyone else if we can help it.

Second, while poor people are a theoretically great united front because class transcends social demographics, racial politics make it impossible for poor white society to see poor ethic minorities as downtrodden allies versus lazy moochers. That was the biggest reason the idea of a "white" identity even took off in the first place.

In short, there's never going to be anything close to the black version of a Gamergate in terms of scale and damage caused, at least in our lifetimes. This is almost uniquely an American straight white male phenomenon.

 

[AmuroChan]

I think the best evidence that this isn't true is that when any developer even mentions politics and seems slightly left wing, a torrent of people come out of the wood work to tell them to 'stick to making games' and to 'stay out of politics'.

That goes both ways though. Take a look at any Colin Moriarty's political tweets and you see the same thing, if not even more.

 

[BGBW]

When I was young I had a game called Treasure Island Dizzy.

When you start a new game the first thing you see is this.

If you head right you instantly die, because Dizzy can't swim without the snorkel.

Unfortunately my controller broke and the joystick only went right so I could never play this game again.

That was the day I learnt that one can't always go right.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

anime avatar and far-right comment

HM

 

[lazygecko]

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.



I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

Hillary.... far left.

 

[ISOM]

So my bro is a liberal.

He started posting alt right stuff because he went to a social event and said something without thinking and was accused of racism and so he went on a "free speech" bender and found a home online with these types of people. He started repeating their rhetoric. Got super interested in free speech rights in NYC towards transgender tenants. He lives in Tennessee.

All because he was embarrassed in a social situation and found people telling him what he wanted to hear who then directed his energy towards their own agenda.

It doesn't sound like your bro is liberal.

 

[Kthulhu]

I didn't say all that. Still, don't act like you haven't seen multiple "GEE I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT" posts here recently.



I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

Lol. Hill-dog and the DNC are left leaning.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm sorry to call bullshit on you, but bullshit. The site was one of the top five site referrers to Hillary's campaign. You don't get to that point as a "centrist with a slightly left leaning" community.

This only proves my point. Bernie is to the left of Hillary. The only way Hillary counts as far-left is on a scale where America is significantly more far-right in comparison to most other westernized countries.