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[Gaiff]

How exactly do we spin this one? Everyone is playing it on Game Pass/Xbox?

For comparison's sake, here is Baldur's Gate 3 with over 10x the number of concurrent players.

I know Microsoft is all about engagement and not sales but how can players be more engaged than by playing your games? The game peaked at 330K players. If it had retained anywhere near its engagement, it should still be at least at 50K but everyone on Steam left the game. Microsoft can go on about how many potatoes were collected or how many helmets were removed but no one can mask these numbers. This is abysmal.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

 

[IntentionalPun]

Skyrim and FO4 are better games and have insane replay value.

Why are people so obsessed with Starfield not doing amazing? Get a life and focus on the things you like not warz.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Yes, but have all those players averaged 40 hours or more?

 

[winjer]

But what about engagement...

 

[Punished Miku]

If you count all the idling and sleeping Fallout and Skyrim players it balances out. Those games are older so the older playerbase requires more rest.

 

[Gaiff]

Skyrim and FO4 are better games and have insane replay value.

Why are people so obsessed with Starfield not doing amazing? Get a life and focus on the things you like not warz.

Because Bethesda needs to acknowledge that their game is fucking whack and that they're stuck in the mid 2000s. They can't go on to make the next TES with that mindset or it'll be another trainwreck. They got their heads so far up their asses that they think it's the players who are wrong.

They stubbornly cling onto that Frankenstein engine and their outdated game design philosophies and now look at the result.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Because Bethesda needs to acknowledge that their game is fucking whack and that they're stuck in the mid 2000s. They can't go on to make the next TES with that mindset or it'll be another trainwreck. They got their heads so far up their asses that they think it's the players who are wrong.

They stubbornly cling onto that Frankenstein engine and their outdated game design philosophies and now look at the result.

In my opinion it’s the departure from their typical game design that made Starfield less appealing.

Hopefully they stop fucking around and make another game with a cohesive map with TES 6 and focus on having great missions and not some newfangled mechanic that sucks.

The fact that Skyrim is still played so much doesn’t really bode well for the idea that their style of game is that outdated.

 

[ReBurn]

We've talked about this a lot already.

 

[Ribi]

"modders will fix it!"

Ok but If no one is left to play and modders don't give a shit to make the mod then who wish fix the game Todd?

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well in all fairness those games have been around for ages now and have legions of mod-makers.

Like for real, I get the criticism at the game. A lot of it is deserved. But we won’t know the staying power of Starfield and the whole story on it for years to come. Snapshot takes of it 4 months after launch are honestly not super helpful not indicative of future success.

 

[Loomy]

I mean....we don't have to

 

[damidu]

show me the legs baby!

 

[Gavon West]

How exactly do we spin this one? Everyone is playing it on Game Pass/Xbox?

For comparison's sake, here is Baldur's Gate 3 with over 10x the number of concurrent players.

I know Microsoft is all about engagement and not sales but how can players be more engaged than by playing your games? The game peaked at 330K players. If it had retained anywhere near its engagement, it should still be at least at 50K but everyone on Steam left the game. Microsoft can go on about how many potatoes were collected or how many helmets were removed but no one can mask these numbers. This is abysmal.

Jesus, really? This is what we're doing? Really?....REALLY?? Good news comes about, then we get this: Steam charts....................

Anywho, seeing how BGS games are played for years, arent Fallout and Skyrim older titles that people have been playing for who knows how long? Starfield just came out of the womb. Within just a year, this post will age badly if other BGS titles are anything to go by.

And then, like, arent all of these BGS titles anyway? This obsession with Starfield has been an experience to remember, man. This game will be talked about for years.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Do we have to?

 

[graywolf323]

both sides will pick & choose what stats favor their line of argument, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

though it doesn’t help how Microsoft isn’t very open sharing anything to really judge how the game is doing

 

[Zathalus]

How many do you think would be playing Fallout 4 and Skyrim if they had almost no mods?

 

[skit_data]

If you count all the idling and sleeping Fallout and Skyrim players it balances out. Those games are older so the older playerbase requires more rest.

 

[zombrex]

Those said games have been out for 8+ years and both have sold tens of millions of copies.
Is it really suprising they have large players bases?
Both games are also well established IPs.
Starfield has great flaws but comparing playing numbers now is just silly,I have fully criticised the game but the real test will be long term numbers after DLC support, modder support and years of steam sales, just like the other two games. Games these days have much longer lives, just look at No Mans Sky.

 

[Skifi28]

When Starfield came out, I went back to Fallout 4.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Let's not.

 

[Thirty7ven]

On Xbox Far Cry 6 is now ahead of Starfield.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

What’s there to talk about?

“People don’t really like playing the game.””

There. Done. Move on with your life. Go find a game you do enjoy.

 

[Gaiff]

How many do you think would be playing Fallout 4 and Skyrim if they had almost no mods?

So they never left the, "modders will fix it" mentality? Good to know. It's another indictment on the game's quality.

Well in all fairness those games have been around for ages now and have legions of mod-makers.

Like for real, I get the criticism at the game. A lot of it is deserved. But we won’t know the staying power of Starfield and the whole story on it for years to come. Snapshot takes of it 4 months after launch are honestly not super helpful not indicative of future success.

But then the entire game hinges on mods, again? Over a decade later, nothing has changed? Furthermore, the game is only 3 months old. It should still have a relatively high player count for being a sprawling RPG. After 2 years with mods, I'd get it. People would have moved on. The game doesn't even manage to make it to 3 months before falling into irrelevancy on Steam? That's insane.

 

[JayK47]

Give it like 4 more years. It will age like wine, right? Right?!!!

Should anybody be surprised that a game that asks you to select your pronoun in the first few minutes is lacking? How did we even play games years ago without fucking pronouns? I guess we were too busy enjoying well made games.

 

[Zathalus]

So they never left the, "modders will fix it" mentality? Good to know. It's another indictment on the game's quality.

No? Just that Skyrim and Fallout 4 are still massively popular due to mods. You can't honestly believe they would have nearly as much players today if the mod scene didn't exist.

 

[Gaiff]

What’s there to talk about?

“People don’t really like playing the game.””

There. Done. Move on with your life. Go find a game you do enjoy.

Nah, fuck that. We need to talk about it and this better gets drilled into Bethesda and Microsoft's heads. They always try to hide and shy away from their failures, never admitting that they haven't delivered. Microsoft has gotten so pathetic that they're ashamed of their sales numbers and have stopped reporting them for like a decade.

What did Nintendo when the WiiU turned out to be a colossal failure? They went back to the drawing board and came back stronger than ever. They never tried to hide their failure and were transparent about the console being a complete disaster. Microsoft though? Always trying to lie and spin their failures. Now we got Bethesda who are also adept at that and the two have joined forces.

As a long-time fan, this legitimately pisses me off. It doesn't seem like they even take the criticism and intend to change anything.

 

[Flutta]

But 13milion players bu bu bu.... where the f are they? not playing Starfield that's for sure.

 

[Flutta]

On Xbox Far Cry 6 is now ahead of Starfield.

 

[LazyParrot]

Pretty sure a few dozen people brought it up the first time it happened about a month ago.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Nah, fuck that. We need to talk about it and this better gets drilled into Bethesda and Microsoft's heads. They always try to hide and shy away from their failures, never admitting that they haven't delivered. Microsoft has gotten so pathetic that they're ashamed of their sales numbers and have stopped reporting them for like a decade.

What did Nintendo when the WiiU turned out to be a colossal failure? They went back to the drawing board and came back stronger than ever. They never tried to hide their failure and were transparent about the console being a complete disaster. Microsoft though? Always trying to lie and spin their failures. Now we got Bethesda who are also adept at that and the two have joined forces.

As a long-time fan, this legitimately pisses me off. It doesn't seem like they even take the criticism and intend to change anything.

*shrug* okay. I somehow doubt anything posted here will change MS’s corporate strategy, but who am I to stand in the way of an impassioned rant?

I’m gonna go kick over a chair in solidarity.

 

[Rudius]

I may be insane, but I want another Skyrim port: PSVR2.

 

[THE DUCK]

I do notice that that BG3 does have signicantly lower system specs to play the actual game, I wonder if this plays a role with all those 1060's still rocking the steamverse?

 

[Pelta88]

Starfield will be the GOTG! And gaf has all the receipts to prove it.

 

[THE DUCK]

Also wouldn't most of the players be using the xbox launcher on gamepass and not steam?

 

[mdkirby]

They broke the concept of exploration by having an 1000 empty worlds and having you teleport to locations, whilst also basically doubling (x1000) down on the shifty procedural Preston Garvey missions from fallout 4 that everyone hated and built most their game around that. Oh plus even more Minecraft “build shit” mechanics, which I’m sure some people like, but it ain’t exactly why people play Bethesda games.

So it not doing great in a year of phenomenal games really doesn’t surprise me

 

[Gaiff]

Also wouldn't most of the players be using the xbox launcher on gamepass and not steam?

Even if it were the case, this doesn't explain the plummeting numbers on Steam. BG3 still attracts around 150K peak per day and came out a month before Starfield. Elden Ring in its third month was still peaking at almost 300K players.

In addition to the terrible Steam reviews, this paints a terrible picture. Yet here they are trying to fool us into believing this game is a smashing success.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

When the actual modding tools get release it will bump those numbers up.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

It's pretty simple. FO4 and Skyrim are more fun to play. So... more people play those games.

Redemption is still possible for SF if they release some big patches and updates, but the way Bethesda have reacted to criticism so far, I wouldn't count on it. Because, you know, "the players don't know anything about game development!" And also, "the players are playing the game wrong!"

 

[Gavon West]

Nah, fuck that. We need to talk about it and this better gets drilled into Bethesda and Microsoft's heads. They always try to hide and shy away from their failures, never admitting that they haven't delivered. Microsoft has gotten so pathetic that they're ashamed of their sales numbers and have stopped reporting them for like a decade.

What did Nintendo when the WiiU turned out to be a colossal failure? They went back to the drawing board and came back stronger than ever. They never tried to hide their failure and were transparent about the console being a complete disaster. Microsoft though? Always trying to lie and spin their failures. Now we got Bethesda who are also adept at that and the two have joined forces.

As a long-time fan, this legitimately pisses me off. It doesn't seem like they even take the criticism and intend to change anything.

Bruh....WHAT FAILURE?? What EXACTLY didnt they deliver? TF are you talking about? Lol. The game is a success on every metric including financial. Guaranteed franchise now. 13 million players and climbing (it was 12 million last month) That number will grow after the next update

Like, what failure??

 

[sendit]

When the "game of the generation" peaks, you'll know.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

People prefer playing better games, that's really all there is to it.

 

[THE DUCK]

Even if it were the case, this doesn't explain the plummeting numbers on Steam. BG3 still attracts around 150K peak per day and came out a month before Starfield. Elden Ring in its third month was still peaking at almost 300K players.

In addition to the terrible Steam reviews, this paints a terrible picture. Yet here they are trying to fool us into believing this game is a smashing success.

I'm not so sure it's a failure, most people seem to be pretty happy with it, gereral reviews were pretty good, and delivers on most of what it set out to do. Smashing success? Maybe not, but will it be a successful project long term? Probably.

 

[Gaiff]

Bruh....WHAT FAILURE?? What EXACTLY didnt they deliver? TF are you talking about? Lol. The game is a success on every metric including financial. Guaranteed franchise now. 13 million players and climbing (it was 12 million last month) That number will grow after the next update

Like, what failure??

I'm not so sure it's a failure, most people seem to be pretty happy with it, gereral reviews were pretty good, and delivers on most of what it set out to do. Smashing success? Maybe not, but will it be a successful project long term? Probably.

That's a terrible score for Steam reviews. Below Fallout 76 and it certainly wasn't a critical darling by either the press or the players.

Gavon West You gobbling up their spin is EXACTLY what I meant when I was attacking their practice of misleading players. Remember when Outriders was supposedly a success on Game Pass? Then two years later, we learned that the dev hadn't received a penny in royalty fees, indicating that the game hadn't even recovered its development budget after two years?

This is the kind of spin Microsoft has been doing for years. Halo Infinite? Try to make it seem like a win when it wasn't. Xbox Series sales? Oh, greatest sales ever! Then you see it getting smashed by its competitors and Phil losing hair over its trajectory. The sales have practically flatlined in Europe, but don't listen to objective sources. Listen to the suits who could make Olympic-level gymnasts jealous with their contortions.

 

[RoboFu]

I mean what is so “ confusing “ about better games performing better?
Not sure how that can be “ confusing “ to anyone but the dimmest of wits.

 

[JayK47]

Steam user reviews are now mixed. Brutal downgrade. Classic example of reviewers being out of touch with actual gamers.

 

[UniformDeliverance]

Give it like 4 more years. It will age like wine, right? Right?!!!

Should anybody be surprised that a game that asks you to select your pronoun in the first few minutes is lacking? How did we even play games years ago without fucking pronouns? I guess we were too busy enjoying well made games.

I feel this irresistible urge to point out that BG3 also asks you for your pronouns in character creation. So perhaps that isn’t a useful metric at all to determine a games quality yeah?

 

[Gavon West]

That's a terrible score for Steam reviews. Below Fallout 76 and it certainly wasn't a critical darling by either the press or the players.

Gavon West You gobbling up their spin is EXACTLY what I meant when I was attacking their practice of misleading players. Remember when Outriders was supposedly a success on Game Pass? Then two years later, we learned that the dev hadn't received a penny in royalty fees, indicating that the game hadn't even recovered its development budget after two years?

This is the kind of spin Microsoft has been doing for years. Halo Infinite? Try to make it seem like a win when it wasn't. Xbox Series sales? Oh, greatest sales ever! Then you see it getting smashed by its competitors and Phil losing hair over its trajectory. The sales have practically flatlined in Europe, but don't listen to objective sources. Listen to the suits who could make Olympic-level gymnasts jealous with their contortions.

You're taking things out of context my guy. Fallout started out terrible but now its damn near a completely different game with millions of players. I didnt follow Outriders so I cant comment there. Didnt really vibe with me. That said though, Gamepass has seen a lot of success and many developers have spoken publicly about it.

Halo Infinite IS a success. It maybe didnt start that way for some ( I love it) but today, its eating into Destiny 2 #'s. Xbox is killing it revenue wise. Console sales arent at Sony level but, they've found a way to be just as, if not, more successful via revenue than Sony and that's going to grow when ABK hits Gamepass and marketing surrounds the Xbox platform. I'm not falling for anything. I see much of whats happening in this industry. Which is why its so bizarre to see this "console" discussion come up over and over. All you eve hear about is console sales and how Sony dominates in console sales .

But Xbox isnt just consoles. they arent dependent on console sales to thrive. In fact, Sony depending on console sales at this point is literally coming back to bite them in the ass because they arent generating the kind if income they need to continue to create first party games. Its just not a sustainable business model in this day and age. Hence why you're seeing so many remasters, etc from them, They are literally too afraid to take creative risks on unknown or IP's without an already established fanbase.

They also are having an issue with GaaS games which is monumental for them if they intend to stay in business. Since console sales arent enough to make a game requiring an $80 million dollar budget (and they can no longer depend on CoD money) they need GaaS to help finance these single player games Sony fans love. Naughty Dog tried and quit - just not their bag. In essence, console sales aint it, chief. Not in this ever growing industry that literally requires Hollywood blockbuster budgets these days.

Sorry for the rant but I'm under no illusions of whats happening in the gaming industry.

 

[LordCBH]

Skyrim I understand. Games phenomenal. But Fallout 4? Insane. Starfield is a much better game than FO4 (though I also think it has more flaws, but the full package is better….i did not like FO4 at all)

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

No one can deny that this game has been a disappointment. Similar to Halo Infinite, Forza, Sea of Thieves, Fallout 76, and Cyberpunk, it hasn't met expectations. But we live in a society where a disappointing game has a chance for redemption. Not easy, but not impossible.