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Article: Isis leaders accept loss of caliphate; encourage terror in Europe

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Mohonky

Member
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world...europe’/ar-AAjdvl8?li=AAabC8j&ocid=spartanntp

Senior Isis leaders have been forced to accept that they will lose their caliphate in Syria and Iraq and see terrorist attacks in the West as the way forward for jihad, according to foreign fighters who are abandoning the Islamist group as it faces an onslaught in Mosul and an impending attack on Raqqa.

The killings of some of their best commanders, divisions and fear of treachery have contributed to Isis steadily losing territory, according to two Belgian Muslims who recently deserted and fled to Turkey. At the same time, destruction of munitions has led to the group depending more and more on light weapons, suicide bomb cars and IEDs (improvised explosive devices) to try and stem the offensives being launched against it.
“When Daesh [Isis] went into Iraq and took the armour and Humvees from the Iraqi army, it was a big success because it allowed them to move forward very fast. But once the bombing started by the Americans a lot of these armoured cars and Humvees just got smashed; moving around in them just made you a big target,” said Rachid, 27, who used to work as a mechanic in Belgium before his journey to Syria.

“Now the Daesh leaders talk about ribat, which means defending territory, not going forward, so it is a different kind of warfare. Daesh have [surface-to-air] missiles, sure. They have even built their own but how many planes have they brought down? Very few, it is not so easy with modern planes,” he continued. “They still have very good bombmakers and suicide cars are very good because they are effective and really make the enemy afraid. But when the Americans and the Russians started their air strikes these cars were getting blown up before they got to the enemy, so not so effective now and also numbers of people volunteering to be suicide bombers has fallen.
“But you can get people prepared to be suicide bombers in Europe and they can cause much more damage. So, the leaders of Daesh are saying that is where the struggle should take place. A lot of the brothers now feel Mosul cannot be held, Raqqa cannot be held. So, the fight is moving to Europe”.

Despite Belgium appearing to become a base in Europe for Islamist terrorism, with fighters returning from Syria being responsible for murders in Paris and Brussels, Rachid and his Belgian companion, Yasin, claimed to have no knowledge of those attacks and hardly knew those who carried them out.

“They did not hold a majlis [council] to discuss what they were doing. Of course we were not in the rooms with these people when they were deciding what to do,” Yasin wanted to stress. “And you must know that a lot of these attacks have been planned in Europe, in America, with people carrying them out just giving bay’ah [allegiance] to the Sheikh [Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the head of Isis]. They are not asking for instructions from Raqaa.”
Both the men, who are of Moroccan descent, said they had gone to Syria after being angered by violent suppression of protests by President Bashar al-Assad’s regime. They had been in contact with other European nationals who were already in the country and found it relatively easy to cross the border from Turkey.

“At the time they were not doing anything much to stop people going to Syria from Belgium. I think that was the case with most of the other European countries as well”, said Rachid. “The European governments were against Bashar, so why would they stop us? I know it’s much more difficult now, but there has been a big drop in foreign volunteers anyway.”

The men had joined Isis, they claimed, after trying other jihadi groups because it was the best at fighting the regime. For Yasin, it was also because “it was the most pure and dedicated”. They claimed disillusionment had set in after witnessing excesses committed by Isis and confessed they were frightened of being killed if they had stayed in Syria.


The accounts given by Rachid, slim and talkative, and Yasin, short, muscular and taciturn, were, at times, self-serving. They had fought on various frontlines such as at the capture of the towns of Manbij, Qalamun and Aleppo but had not, they insisted, taken part in executions and the violent punishments meted out by Isis.

Yasin wanted to qualify: “most people approved of what the Hisbah [the religious police] were doing, because they are Muslim and they believe in sharia. The punishments were harsh, but they made people keep to the law. That was the way it was at the beginning…” Rachid interjected: “But then it became more and more harsh and if people complained they were accused of being apostates, even traitors. They would be punished severely if they protested.”

The two men and a number of other opposition fighters from different groups claim that the Isis leadership feared that the group had been infiltrated by Western intelligence agencies, led by the British. The suspicion and paranoia, they said, stretched to military planning. “If you disagreed with something a commander was saying, making bad decisions, then there was always the risk someone will say, ‘why are you disrupting, are you a spy?’” said Rachid. “Those of us who had volunteered from other countries had to be extra careful. That was not the situation before, but they became more paranoid.”
Yet it was the death of a foreign commander which has been a major loss to Isis, said the two men. Omar al-Shishani, a Georgian-Chechen whose real name was Tarkhan Tayumurazovich Batirashvilli, was reported killed outside Mosul in an air strike last summer. “I know that some people think he may not be dead, but there was real disappointment in Daesh over this when the news came because he was so experienced and was such a brave leader,” said Yasin. “But other commanders have been killed as well, it is a big problem for Daesh.”

Isis is also suffering from loss of revenues as it loses territory, in particular the oil fields it used to control. The group has also made considerable sums from ransoms paid by Western governments for hostages. It has been claimed that the French and Spanish governments paid sizeable sums for the release of their nationals held by jailers led by Mohammed Emwazi, the British jihadist who became known as “Jihadi John”.
The US and UK governments have a policy of refusing to pay ransom and American and British hostages, including the photojournalist James Foley and aid workers David Haines and Alan Hemming were beheaded by Emwazi.

“First of all, we do not approve of those killings; we had nothing to do with it. But they would have been probably freed if money had been paid. Other governments had paid money, everyone knows that, I think a German woman was freed recently, how much was paid for her,” Rachid asked Yasin, who said he had heard that €10m had been paid to an Islamist group linked to Jabhat al-Nusra, an al-Qaeda affiliate which recently changed its name to Jabhat Fatah al-Sham.

“That is a lot less than before, we heard the Spanish paid €30m,” said Rachid. “But the ordinary volunteers do not know what happens to the money. We just got paid, that’s all.” The two men said they received around $60 a month and free housing. Those with families had food and other essentials paid for.

Rachid and Yasin would face criminal charges and the prospect of lengthy prison sentences if they return to Belgium. The leaders of Isis, they maintained, have their own escape plan and would evade capture or being killed in Mosul and Raqaa. “Look how long it took them to get to Osama bin Laden,” Rashid reminded.

But that was because the al-Qaeda leader had found refuge in Pakistan with allies in the country’s military and intelligence service, when he had to flee Afghanistan, I pointed out. “You will be surprised at what countries may want to hide Daesh leaders and give them protection”, declared Rachid. “The capture of Raqaa will not mean everything is finished.”

Not particularly surprising, squash the nest and the cockroaches will go running, but it just sends them underground again to continue their plans. The whole caliphate thing was ever going to last, it was always just a matter of time before some form of coalition steam rolled them, it's not like they would ever be recognised territory so they have to end up somewhere.

This quote;

“You will be surprised at what countries may want to hide Daesh leaders and give them protection”

Actually, I'm wiling to bet I wouldn't be that suprised to hear of some countries that would protect ISIS leaders......
 

Alx

Member
Well it will probably get worse before it gets better, but it will get better in the end. The fight in Syria was a major point to crystallize hatred in local European populations, and with that (hopefully) gone it will massively weaken their propaganda.
 

CHC

Member
Probably going to get perceptibly better before it gets worse later. This is exactly what happened after Zarqawi's death - underground reformation of radicals before they found a situation primed for their ideals to captivate disenfranchised people.

That's assuming no other nations lead long-term intelligence operations during the lull period. Which they should. It's not very glamorous to infiltrate circles of radicals that aren't actually doing anything but they NEED to in order to prevent this shit from just waiting until the next rebellion or occupation and then moving on to exploit tensions.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
They've lost and they know it, once their territory is gone, half of their leaders either dead or captured, their power over others will be so greatly diminished that nobody is going to attack anyone in their name. Quite literally, the dream is dead, ISIS.

New groups will rise, new terrorists will attack, but at least the fuckers won't be able to terrorize that entire region with their bs.

Isis soon to become Waswas

Well done, Sir.
 
The mentality of people tied to this bunch of fanatics defies belief. What is to be gained by these terrorist activities?

There is too much evil in this world.
 

StayDead

Member
Large scale ground combat against them in the middle east? Probably. But OVER over, nah there will still be attacks on foreign soil from cells across the globe for a long time sadly.

The problem is all of this spawned from an illegal war. Had none of that had ever happened, we wouldn't be sat with this sad realisation now. :/
 

Mohonky

Member
wait, this sounds like its almost over then? and theyre desperate to go down in flames

ISIS running large areas of Syria and Iraq as its own little 'Disneyland for Extremists' then yeh it pretty much, they expanded so much, have been struggling to hold the territory but they're being spread as the fight is now coming from every direction.

Mosul is their major area in Iraq and that'll fall very shortly as major operations began just days ago, they'll have Raqqa in Syria but that'll follow shortly after I imagine as the leaders get out while the gettings good and leave the plebs to wither fight and die or disband (and fight amongst themselves) so yeh, ISIS as a Caliphate is basically done.

Wont solve the problems in the region as theres still a lot going on in Syria and Iraq between different groups, but ISIS is largely done as a territory holding group, they'll either disband into different cells or be regrouped into others though, they wont just disappear, they'll go underground and try to hit in terorists attacks, which is what the article is getting at
 

DarkKyo

Member
For how scary ISIS seemed they really didn't get around to doing that many international terror attacks at their peak. Their worst front was their reign of terror in the places they were ruling and now those are being smashed apart. Terrorism will always exist but ISIS will one day be a blurb in world history.

The problem is all of this spawned from an illegal war. Had none of that had ever happened, we wouldn't be sat with this sad realisation now. :/

That's why it's fucking laughable to hear Trump and the Republicans say that Obama/Clinton are responsible for ISIS' creation when it was obviously Bush.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Staying the obvious: the destruction in Europe has been relatively minor, it's more psychological. Nobody I know in the states is afraid of ISIS attacking here or afraid of traveling to Europe due to terrorism.

They're fucked and law enforcement/counter terror agencies need to clamp down to keep it that way
 

CHC

Member
That's why it's fucking laughable to hear Trump and the Republicans say that Obama/Clinton are responsible for ISIS' creation when it was obviously Bush.

Trump is an idiot but in all fairness our muddled middle ground approach in regard a to the Syrian rebellion didn't help matters.

Don't get me wrong I don't have a better plan and more direct action would have had its own set of issues, but it's pretty easy to see how ISIS exploited tensions in Syria because no one else was appealing to the disenfranchised rebels pushing against Assad.

Of course, OF COURSE, the precursor to all of this is Bush (and Cheney even more so) and their distortion of intelligence in their desperate attempt to link Al Qaeda and Iraq. They paved the way for mainstream rebellion by invading Iraq and Obama inherited that mess.
 
Trump is an idiot but in all fairness our muddled middle ground approach in regard a to the Syrian rebellion didn't help matters.

Don't get me wrong I don't have a better plan and more direct action would have had its own set of issues, but it's pretty easy to see how ISIS exploited tensions in Syria because no one else was appealing to the disenfranchised rebels pushing against Assad.

Everything is 20/20 hindsight, but the truth is there is no obvious answer. Every decision could lead to further catastrophe. The US gave aid to the rebels in Libya and I don't think too many people are satisfied with that outcome.
 

CHC

Member
Everything is 20/20 hindsight, but the truth is there is no obvious answer. Every decision could lead to further catastrophe. The US gave aid to the rebels in Libya and I don't think too many people are satisfied with that outcome.

Of course - like I said no easy solution at all. But I do think the hesitancy to do anything, one way or another, allowed faster moving groups like ISIS to exploit the rebels.
 
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