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[JustenP88]

I don't see any reason why this should cause all the damn bickering going on in this thread but here we are for some reason.

Democrats need to work on their messaging, if results mean anything, so I think this is welcome.

EDIT: and here come the vague homophobia accusations. Thread fading fast.

 

[aeolist]

that's the best they came up with?

at first they wanted to go with "better skills, better jobs, better wages" which is hilariously tone deaf because the first part sounds like it's saying "you're poor because you're not good enough"

though really they should have stuck with it because that's more honest about what democratic politicians actually believe

 

[El_Tiguere]

I really doubt that. Maybe in terms of number of eligible voters, but not in terms of number of people who actually vote

That's the point of a good platform, and having the principled individuals run for office that have the unwavering commitment to carry through with the progressive solutions. Millennials didn't come out in droves against Trump, because they had an empty corrupt shell of a person to vote for as the alternative.

Fuck people over the age of 45, right?

Nah... they were just tone-deaf about Hillary.

 

[ApharmdX]

First post gets it, I think. When Democrats are forced to choose between corporations and the American people, if they can remain populist then, now we are serious. Before that, it's all talk that we've heard before. So we'll see. But I'm heartened when I see stories about Chuck "Milquetoast" Shumer saying that single payer is the future for Dems.

The Bernie progressive wing is the future of the party. The litmus test will be do Democrats stand in favor of corporations or in favor of American workers. The old corrupt wing of the Clintons, the Feinsteins, the Schumers, etc. needs to be purged.

This shit is like a bat signal to the former "yaass queen" crowd. I wish you hadn't done this, lol.

 

[Aaronrules380]

That's the point of a good platform, and having the principled individuals run for office that have the unwavering commitment to carry through with the progressive solutions. Millennials didn't come out in droves against Trump, because they had an empty corrupt shell of a person to vote for as the alternative.

Millenials weren't really reliable voters with Obama either though?
The youth vote has always been incredibly unreliable and something only an idiot aims for

 

[Sub_Level]

Healthcare for everyone
Free college tuition
Raise the minimum wage

Simple language, effective message. Stay away from guns and immigration for now imo.

 

[Steel]

at first they wanted to go with "better skills, better jobs, better wages" which is hilariously tone deaf because the first part sounds like it's saying "you're poor because you're not good enough"

though really they should have stuck with it because that's more honest about what democratic politicians actually believe

Better skills means better education and skills training which does indeed lead to better incomes. I'm not sure why you feel the need to make that into something controversial.

 

[RedZaraki]

I don't see any reason why this should cause all the damn bickering going on in this thread but here we are for some reason.

Democrats need to work on their messaging, if results mean anything, so I think this is welcome.

The problem is that some people want EVERYTHING. NOW. Or else they won't vote at all.

So instead of getting a small amount of something they want, they get a lot of things they don't want. And they get upset that "their vote doesn't matter", even though 2 out of 3 of their age group doesn't vote.

It's frustrating. Millennials could control the government in this country in just a couple years if they bothered to participate.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Millenials weren't really reliable voters with Obama either though?
The youth vote has always been incredibly unreliable and something only an idiot aims for

Then lets hope absolute idiots DO target 40% of the electorate by 2020. The big orange red idiot surely will.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I'm sure Neogaf won't use the overreaching sentiments by a handful of posters to dismiss a populist movement that is actially popular with much of the base in a time when no one else is seemingly offering any tanglable ideas or sensible direction for the party to go in.

Liberal icon Memes and laughing at the burny oR Busterz totally isn't more important that offering an alternative agenda that will excite and drive out turnout that we will need for the mid terms.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Then lets hope absolute idiots DO target 40% of the electorate by 2020. The big orange red idiot surely will.

Also you realize this is about midterms right? Not 2020? Presidential election isn't the only one that matters. Also, Donald didn't win by appealing to millenials lol. He didn't even win the millenial vote

 

[RedZaraki]

That's the point of a good platform, and having the principled individuals run for office that have the unwavering commitment to carry through with the progressive solutions. Millennials didn't come out in droves against Trump, because they had an empty corrupt shell of a person to vote for as the alternative.



Nah... they were just tone-deaf about Hillary.

I honestly think more than any other single factor in the past election, Hillary's lack of charisma was her ultimate undoing. It matters WAY, WAY more than some people are willing to give credit.

She won the popular vote, sure. But some people vote for the person they "like" more, and I think that cost her a few (critical) votes.

 

[aeolist]

Better skills means better education and skills training which does indeed lead to better incomes. I'm not sure why you feel the need to make that into something controversial.

1) productivity is at all time highs and america's work force is already very skilled. wages have been stagnant for decades.

2) if everyone is a high skilled worker then high skill jobs will be less valuable due to a glut of supply.

3) telling people to continually chase the next big thing until they die or scrape together enough allowance from the oligarchs to retire is not a message that will resonate with working class voters.

the fundamental problem isn't job training or education. those things are good but they will not fix the fundamental rigging of our economy.

 

[Gallbaro]

1) productivity is at all time highs and america's work force is already very skilled. wages have been stagnant for decades.

2) if everyone is a high skilled worker then high skill jobs will be less valuable due to a glut of supply.

3) telling people to continually chase the next big thing until they die or scrape together enough allowance from the oligarchs to retire is not a message that will resonate with working class voters.

the fundamental problem isn't job training or education. those things are good but they will not fix the fundamental rigging of our economy.

Productivity has stagnated.

 

[Abinash117]

This looks good.

If they pair this with a single payer proposal and a deeper awareness of social issues I can see this working out okay in 2018



educate yourself

They're not though. They left it out for a reason.

Here's what they are doing.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/24/16017570/democrats-better-deal-explained

I'm a Democrat through and through, but it's hard to be excited about a new message when the party leadership has literally been around for longer than I've been alive.

There not going to get replaced anytime soon. The left that wants to replace them have little clot within the party and aren't that organized enough to do so. I don't expect orgs like Brand New Congress or the Justice Democrats to make large enough gains to seriously make the party leadership raise eyebrows.

If the party needs to be changed than progressives needs to make much more serious effort to get rid of the leadership.

 

[Orayn]

Healthcare for everyone
Free college tuition
Raise the minimum wage

Simple language, effective message. Stay away from guns and immigration for now imo.

How about a party of useless center-right cowards who think 2/3 of those are absolutely impossible and will never ever try to achieve them.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I honestly think more than any other single factor in the past election, Hillary's lack of charisma was her ultimate undoing. It matters WAY, WAY more than some people are willing to give credit.

She won the popular vote, sure. But some people vote for the person they "like" more, and I think that cost her a few (critical) votes.

We absolutely need someone with more charisma. We also need someone who is competent as well (which is why i was never a particularly big fan of bernie). Having good goals is worthless without plans to execute them. I think getting a left wing equivalent of Trump would still be better than trump, but it still wouldn't be good for the country.

Mostly I'm just upset at humanity as a whole for valuing charisma in leaders more than actual policy or competence

 

[Omegasquash]

Fuck people over the age of 45, right?

"Get with the times, or step aside."

Voters respond really well to that sentiment.

Spoiler

/s

 

[sixteen-bit]

Better Jobs, Better Wages, Better Future. Papa Dems.

lmao

 

[GodofWine]

I think Dems could simply win by getting the under 30's to come out in LARGE numbers by promising that broadband and mobile data will be made a human right and free.

They could 'pay' for it by simply giving everyone a fairly minor tax break via a 'technology payment' made to each and every citizen..then they can go after the ISP's and regulate them into fixed cost brackets.

or maybe 5g will get here faster and disrupt the 'model'.

 

[Twig and Berries]

One of the issues with "populism" in general is always semantic. Does it refer to what the majority of voters want? What is that? Does it refer to what a political movement believes is in the interests of the majority of the population? Why is it called populism then?

In practice the common threads of populism are a dislike of perceived elites and favoring strong powerful leader figures. I'm not a fan of it

You're describing demagoguery, which admittedly just about always employs populist tactics.

 

[kirblar]

1) productivity is at all time highs and america's work force is already very skilled. wages have been stagnant for decades.

2) if everyone is a high skilled worker then high skill jobs will be less valuable due to a glut of supply.

3) telling people to continually chase the next big thing until they die or scrape together enough allowance from the oligarchs to retire is not a message that will resonate with working class voters.

the fundamental problem isn't job training or education. those things are good but they will not fix the fundamental rigging of our economy.

Not everyone can be a high skill worker. That is one of the problems we are facing - the "floor" for what it takes to be worth hiring is rising and it isn't going to be going back down. You can't teach everyone to be a nuclear engineer, or a doctor. We will face eternal shortages in those fields because we will never have enough people to satiate demand!

 

[excelsiorlef]

First post gets it, I think. When Democrats are forced to choose between corporations and the American people, if they can remain populist then, now we are serious. Before that, it's all talk that we've heard before. So we'll see. But I'm heartened when I see stories about Chuck "Milquetoast" Shumer saying that single payer is the future for Dems.



This shit is like a bat signal to the former "yaass queen" crowd. I wish you hadn't done this, lol.

Predominantly gay male Hillary supporters?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Sounds good.

 

[RedZaraki]

We absolutely need someone with more charisma. We also need someone who is competent as well (which is why i was never a particularly big fan of bernie). Having good goals is worthless without plans to execute them. I think getting a left wing equivalent of Trump would still be better than trump, but it still wouldn't be good for the country.

Mostly I'm just upset at humanity as a whole for valuing charisma in leaders more than actual policy or competence

This country elected Reagan.

It's a popularity contest to like 30% of people.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also you realize this is about midterms right? Not 2020? Presidential election isn't the only one that matters. Also, Donald didn't win by appealing to millenials lol. He didn't even win the millenial vote

He won the white youth vote but so did Romney.

 

[kirblar]

Predominantly gay male Hillary supporters?

Finally people catching onto the fact that it's a fucking dogwhistle.

 

[Aaronrules380]

They're not though. They left it out for a reason.

Here's what they are doing.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/24/16017570/democrats-better-deal-explained



There not going to get replaced anytime. The left that wants to replace them have little clot within the party and aren't that organized enough to so. I don't expect orgs like Brand New Congress or the Justice Democrats to make large enough gains to seriously enough to make the party leadership to raise eyebrows.

If the party needs to be changed than progressives needs to make much more serious effort to get rid of the leadership.

But Surely tweeting about what you dislike is far more effective than voting In primaries and elections. Especially for positions that aren't the president himself. Surely /s

 

[Steel]

1) productivity is at all time highs and america's work force is already very skilled. wages have been stagnant for decades.

2) if everyone is a high skilled worker then high skill jobs will be less valuable due to a glut of supply.

3) telling people to continually chase the next big thing until they die or scrape together enough allowance from the oligarchs to retire is not a message that will resonate with working class voters.

the fundamental problem isn't job training or education. those things are good but they will not fix the fundamental rigging of our economy.

If you think our job training and fucking education are up to par compared to the rest of the world, you're absolutely delusional.

 

[Lucky_Se7enty]

The democrats should learn from the UK General election and what labour and Jeremy Corbyn did, people thought the youth vote wouldnt show but they did becuase they believed in a principled and decent leader.

 

[Aaronrules380]

This country elected Reagan.

It's a popularity contest to like 30% of people.

I'm aware it's nothing new. Still super disappointing. Voters don't care about actual change or the work it involves, they just want quick easy fixes to all of their problems and this is super depressing

 

[aeolist]

Not everyone can be a high skill worker. That is one of the problems we are facing - the "floor" for what it takes to be worth hiring is rising and it isn't going to be going back down. You can't teach everyone to be a nuclear engineer, or a doctor. We will face eternal shortages in those fields because we will never have enough people to satiate demand!

and the democratic position on that is those people deserve to live in poverty

what we need is a party that says "no matter who you are, what you know, and what you can do, we will guarantee that you will have food, housing, healthcare, and whatever else is necessary to live a decent life"

making anything in those categories dependent on job training and education is wrong and will fail

 

[JustenP88]

If you think our job training and fucking education are up to par compared to the rest of the world, you're absolutely delusional.

If you think we're going to have sufficient jobs 20-50 years from now for all these highly-trained citizens then you shouldn't be talking to the kettle that way.

 

[kirblar]

and the democratic position on that is those people deserve to live in poverty

what we need is a party that says "no matter who you are, what you know, and what you can do, we will guarantee that you will have food, housing, healthcare, and whatever else is necessary to live a decent life"

making anything in those categories dependent on job training and education is wrong and will fail

The Dem platform has UHC in it!

Even Bernie thinks UBI is too far out there to get passed by the American elctorate and he won't touch it as a topic unless he's out of the country!

The democrats should learn from the UK General election and what labour and Jeremy Corbyn did, people thought the youth vote wouldnt show but they did becuase they believed in a principled and decent leader.

a) the young people still didn't show up relative to other groups
b) Corbyn sitll lost.

 

[El_Tiguere]

The democrats should learn from the UK General election and what labour and Jeremy Corbyn did, people thought the youth vote wouldnt show but they did becuase they believed in a principled and decent leader.

THIS.

Also, just as Trump rode the "Drain the Swamp" to power, Democrats need to drain our own swamp across the Federal Government. What this means, and what Americans on both sides will respond to, is draining the corruption, draining the lobbyists, and draining the corporate cartels/oligarchs out of our government. If this message is top of the list (as it was with Bernie), people will come out in droves.

 

[Steel]

If you think we're going to have sufficient jobs 20-50 years from now for all these highly-trained citizens then you shouldn't be talking to the kettle that way.

So you're saying we should just abandon education? Say it's good enough, there's no benefit to investing in it?

 

[Aaronrules380]

and the democratic position on that is those people deserve to live in poverty

what we need is a party that says "no matter who you are, what you know, and what you can do, we will guarantee that you will have food, housing, healthcare, and whatever else is necessary to live a decent life"

making anything in those categories dependent on job training and education is wrong and will fail

I mean this is nice and to a certain extent I agree, but ultimately we have to draw a line somewhere because we don't live in a post scarcity world and likely never will. Ultimately I do think society needs to reward people who put in the time and effort to take on hard jobs or we won't get enough people doing them. Total equality for all is a pipe dream. I think we need to raise the standards for the poor and help create opportunities so that people can rise out of bad situations, but we do need to keep in mind we don't have unlimited resources

 

[Phrozenflame500]

1) productivity is at all time highs and america's work force is already very skilled. wages have been stagnant for decades.

2) if everyone is a high skilled worker then high skill jobs will be less valuable due to a glut of supply.

3) telling people to continually chase the next big thing until they die or scrape together enough allowance from the oligarchs to retire is not a message that will resonate with working class voters.

the fundamental problem isn't job training or education. those things are good but they will not fix the fundamental rigging of our economy.

I don't really buy this, the value of a college degree has increased over time, especially compared to non-degree holders

 

[aeolist]

If you think our job training and fucking education are up to par compared to the rest of the world, you're absolutely delusional.

job training and education need to be better and that's important but it shouldn't be tied to economics the way dems tend to do it, both because it won't actually fix anything and because it's ethically wrong to tell someone they should live in a hovel and never see a doctor if they don't get a degree in the right subject.

 

[Aaronrules380]

THIS.

Also, just as Trump rode the "Drain the Swamp" to power, Democrats need to drain our own swamp across the Federal Government. What this means, and what Americans on both sides will respond to, is draining the corruption, draining the lobbyists, and draining the corporate cartels/oligarchs out of our government. If this message is top of the list (as it was with Bernie), people will come out in droves.

Bernie still lost by millions of votes, and only came as "close" as he did by refusing to back out of an unwinnable race when most candidates would.

 

[robosllim]

Not everyone can be a high skill worker. That is one of the problems we are facing - the "floor" for what it takes to be worth hiring is rising and it isn't going to be going back down. You can't teach everyone to be a nuclear engineer, or a doctor. We will face eternal shortages in those fields because we will never have enough people to satiate demand!

A million times this. We need to acknowledge the fact that a capitalist economy is pyramid shaped -- poor people make up the largest group, wealthy people the smallest, with "skill", however you define that, correlating along the same lines. The next step is to guarantee everyone the things they need to survive, i.e. a livable wage no matter their skill level. We're not going to achieve "better skills, better jobs" for everyone, period, at least not relative to the population as a whole. It's a nice idea, but it'll never happen.

 

[RedZaraki]

I don't really buy this, the value of a college degree has increased over time, especially compared to non-degree holders

It better have. The price of college is outpacing everything else.

 

[Abinash117]

THIS.

Also, just as Trump rode the "Drain the Swamp" to power, Democrats need to drain our own swamp across the Federal Government. What this means, and what Americans on both sides will respond to, is draining the corruption, draining the lobbyists, and draining the corporate cartels/oligarchs out of our government. If this message is top of the list (as it was with Bernie), people will come out in droves.

Trump rode on it, but never did it. The Democrats aren't likely either. If people want to "Drain the Swamp" they have be in the super-majority and elect progressives to replace most of the party establishment. Hard to do because incumbents are very popular in their state or district.

 

[Suite Pee]

A true populist message would anger most of their usual donors. I don't buy it.

 

[Hindl]

I think Dems could simply win by getting the under 30's to come out in LARGE numbers by promising that broadband and mobile data will be made a human right and free.

They could 'pay' for it by simply giving everyone a fairly minor tax break via a 'technology payment' made to each and every citizen..then they can go after the ISP's and regulate them into fixed cost brackets.

or maybe 5g will get here faster and disrupt the 'model'.

This will never happen

THIS.

Also, just as Trump rode the "Drain the Swamp" to power, Democrats need to drain our own swamp across the Federal Government. What this means, and what Americans on both sides will respond to, is draining the corruption, draining the lobbyists, and draining the corporate cartels/oligarchs out of our government. If this message is top of the list (as it was with Bernie), people will come out in droves.

I like the sentiment, but Bernie lost in the primaries. By a lot. Where were the droves of people then?

 

[Dartastic]

and the democratic position on that is those people deserve to live in poverty

what we need is a party that says "no matter who you are, what you know, and what you can do, we will guarantee that you will have food, housing, healthcare, and whatever else is necessary to live a decent life"

making anything in those categories dependent on job training and education is wrong and will fail

.

The Dem platform has UHC in it!

Where? I don't see it.

 

[Aaronrules380]

A million times this. We need to acknowledge the fact that a capitalist economy is pyramid shaped -- poor people make up the largest group, wealthy people the smallest, with "skill", however you define that, correlating along the same lines. The next step is to guarantee everyone the things they need to survive, i.e. a livable wage no matter their skill level. We're not going to achieve "better skills, better jobs" for everyone, period, at least not relative to the population as a whole. It's a nice idea, but it'll never happen.

We're also not going to be able to make everyone equal either. And a livable wage, while it's something we should strive for, is far harder than it sounds. For one thing a livable wage can vary dramatically based on where you want to live

 

[RedZaraki]

This will never happen

I like the sentiment, but Bernie lost in the primaries. By a lot. Where were the droves of people then?

Maybe not free, but I hope we get hold of the FCC to fully name internet access a public utility and that cities begin to take control of that infrastructure so we can eliminate the ISP monopolies all over the place.

 

[JustenP88]

So you're saying we should just abandon education? Say it's good enough, there's no benefit to investing in it?

No, absolutely not. Every American, regardless of their families income, should be able to stroll up to any public university and enroll, as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps I'm sniping in the wrong direction. I just think we're rapidly reaching the point where higher education isn't going to be the great equalizer wrt lifetime earnings that it traditionally has been.

I don't really buy this, the value of a college degree has increased over time, especially compared to non-degree holders

Yeesh, that $800 increase over a period of 30 years seems bleek as fuck from where I'm sitting. Adjusted for inflation or something?

EDIT: Yep, right there in the header lol I suck. Point stands. Fuck Reagan. Plus, "full-time workers" is a big asterisk.

 

[Measley]

Telling coal miners and factory workers that they're going to get their jobs back from Mexico, China or automation is pure bullshit. If that's the populism that the Dems are going for, its not something I can wholly support.