rykomatsu
Member
Winged Creature said:If going vintage stick with pioneer, marantz, sansui and yamaha from the 70s
/rolleyes
only vintage audio equipment really worth getting over any current transistor equipment offering is tube based gear.
Winged Creature said:If going vintage stick with pioneer, marantz, sansui and yamaha from the 70s
nitewulf said:kevm, set them on dedicated stands and clear copious room at the back and sides. before switching gears too much. from the pics you posted, your room itself might be a cause for concern. if its small, good monitors will overwhelm them. they are called monitors or bookshelves, but the hi fi ones are room filling speakers regardless, and you dont wanna choke them. definitely do not actually set them on the desk, like previously posted. that wont create any soundfield.
my listening room is 12 X 16 X 11, and all devoid of furniture, i keep it in a very minimal japanese style. so make sure to do the necesarry things first. speakers have 2 feet clearence at the back and 3 feet at the sides. room placement, and treatment, very important.
plus i honestly think you should have auditioned a few. the best way to get what you like is to listen to them.
rykomatsu said:/rolleyes
only vintage audio equipment really worth getting over any current transistor equipment offering is tube based gear.
depends. what he meant was getting the 70's solid state stuff from Sansui, Marantz, which were built very well, those are better than whatever off the shelf receivers you can get from BestBuy, for stereo purposes. now if you compare them to modern hi fi solid state stereo amplifiers from McIntosh, Plinius, Classe, Musical Fidelity etc, then that's a different story.rykomatsu said:/rolleyes
only vintage audio equipment really worth getting over any current transistor equipment offering is tube based gear.
giga said:I haven't read many reviews of the new one mkIII, but $400 seems a bit steep? Audioengine 5 and M-Audio BX5a are both around $300 and are highly regarded for powered speakers for their pricepoint. (use coupon code COVERTEN on audioengine's site for 10% off)
On ebay, the BX5a are around ~250 new. B-stock (refurb, but full warranty) are even less.
Certainly not as nice looking as the Swans though.
rykomatsu said:/rolleyes
only vintage audio equipment really worth getting over any current transistor equipment offering is tube based gear.
GuessWho said:hey guys, I got myself a NAD 315 Bee and a pair of Energy RC-mini speakers. Am I doing it right? i'm not an "audiophile" and i wanted something minimalistic. If I get a DAC should my sound quality impove? I'm playing it off my ps3.
Umm not sure I can trade them but maybe I can use them as dedicated p speakers not sure how I would do that. Anybody know if it's possible or must I need an amp? I'll check out the rc-10 tomorrow. I'm very interested in a dac but im not ready to dish out big bucks. What is the cheapest-quality dac you can get? ThxWinged Creature said:A dac will improve the sound for sure. Is there a chance you can trade in the RC-mini for the RC-10 there really is a huge difference in sound. The RC-10s I would say are the best sounding speaker in the price range.
now hold on a second there, shouldn't the PS3 internal DAC be pretty high quality? i dont have experience with it, but i'd assume so. he has a good amplifier and ps3 as a source, i'd think he could basically get upgraded speakers to boost sound quality. correct me if i'm wrong though...Winged Creature said:A dac will improve the sound for sure. Is there a chance you can trade in the RC-mini for the RC-10 there really is a huge difference in sound. The RC-10s I would say are the best sounding speaker in the price range.
GuessWho said:Umm not sure I can trade them but maybe I can use them as dedicated p speakers not sure how I would do that. Anybody know if it's possible or must I need an amp? I'll check out the rc-10 tomorrow. I'm very interested in a dac but im not ready to dish out big bucks. What is the cheapest-quality dac you can get? Thx
Winged Creature said:PS3 has decent internal dacs, but remember its not only the dac chip itself that affects the sound. Alot of cd players have the same dac but sound very different. Its a variety of things one of the most important being the analog output stage. The PS3 doesnt have the greatest analog output stage. Even if it does use quality dacs the way it is implemented may not give as stellar results. Ive AB'd between my PS3 using its analog outs and then using the dacmagic, it was no contest that the dacmagic was better.
pj325is said:That sounds really insane to me. Why the jesus would you spend $300 for a dac with $300 speakers and a old ass cheap amp?
Also, doing an A/B just means you THINK it sounds better.
Winged Creature said:Well first thing you will notice is that you can listen to music longer with a good dac cause the highs are not harsh at all. Especially if you listen to metal a dac will make longer listening sessions bareable since it will tame the sizzle. I used the dacmagic when i had the RC-10s and it did make a difference, in soundstage, imaging and much smoother highs. Dont knock it unless you've tried it. A dac isnt the same voodoo as cables. Listen to a sound card then listen to a good dac.
at this point i'd be iffy...digital signals are 1's and 0's, and are transported via the USB cable as 1's and 0's. when people start talking about differentiating between digital signals and actually different sounding USB cables...that's pretty crazy talk, IMO.kevm3 said:Another update I've done to my system was getting an M2Tech Hiface USB to spdif convertor which is used as a transport. It has cleaned up the sound even more. You can read about it here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/us...01-usd-vs-teralink-x-vs-m2tech-hiface-449885/
Winged Creature said:edit: you want measurements, here http://stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/musical_fidelity_v-dac_da_processor/index4.html
pj325is said:Ok, and where are the measurements for just using the built in soundcard? How can you tell if those are good or bad measurements without a point of reference?
Winged Creature said:Yes im throwing around audiophile words cause how else am i supposed to explain myself. Your not in the same listening room so i describe it the best I can. Before you go and bash it listen to it first. From what I'm assuming all of your digital listening has been done through the dacs on your receiver. Try this out use the analog out on ur soundcard and then compare to the dac on the receiver, see which sounds better.
speakers are analog devices, they cant play a digital signal.thefit said:Why would you want to convert back to analog?
Timedog said:Wait, wait, wait....are you trying to imply that a good DAC won't be a huge improvement over the built in DAC of a normal soundcard on a computer?
Timedog said:Wait, wait, wait....are you trying to imply that a good DAC won't be a huge improvement over the built in DAC of a normal soundcard on a computer?
pj325is said:That would be really difficult to set up. My htpc is a mac mini, which has a combination analog/digital output plug, so I'd have to physically switch it every time. Then I'd have to level match them and figure out some way to quickly A/B on my receiver without being able to tell which is which, because if it's not a blind comparison it's pretty worthless.
Also, since I assume they will sound the same, I'll probably hear no difference, even if they don't sound the same. Just like you'd hear a difference, even if there wasn't one, because you expect to.
nitewulf said:well, the built-in soundcard has a DAC as well...pretty much everything has a DAC, what's so illogical about there being quality differences?
pj325is said:No, the people trying to sell $300 DACs are implying the opposite. Burden of proof is on them, my man.
The fact that a product exists doesn't guarantee that it actually does anything.
nitewulf said:at this point i'd be iffy...digital signals are 1's and 0's, and are transported via the USB cable as 1's and 0's. when people start talking about differentiating between digital signals and actually different sounding USB cables...that's pretty crazy talk, IMO.
a quality DAC will convert the digital into quality analog, so yeah DAC is important, and everything else down the chain.
pj325is said:What's illogical about wanting proof that a $300 DAC is any better than the one I already have? What's illogical about wanting to quantify "differences" with actual numbers? "Illogical" to me means spending $300 because it will make my highs less harsh.
nitewulf said:speakers are analog devices, they cant play a digital signal.
pj325is said:No, the people trying to sell $300 DACs are implying the opposite. Burden of proof is on them, my man.
The fact that a product exists doesn't guarantee that it actually does anything.
to be honest w/ you, everything can be equalized...you would probably be happy equalizing w/ winamp, which would tone down harsh highs. never minding that some people may preffer very harsh highs, as it is more involving and forward sounding.pj325is said:"Illogical" to me means spending $300 because it will make my highs less harsh.
Winged Creature said:Well i wouldnt jump to conclusions if you havent compared. Im just sharing my experiences with good dacs and soundcards on pc's and giving my reccomendations. In the end I hope the person who takes my advice does the comparison for themself.
i'm sorry, which primary post are you referring to? i am the originator of the topic and already have a system w/ very good synergy. i think you are referring to one of the recent advice seekers?thefit said:I know that. The oP might as well just buy any generic off the shelf receiver with generic speakers then. The post did ask for audiophile speakers that will output from a pc source I guess the question is what card and what type of output are we talking about? I have digital out to a kenwood vr-615 which more than suffices for my daily gaming and youtube needs and the stereo output is out to my pioneer sx-626 with cs-99a speakers which sound great.
nitewulf said:i'm sorry, which primary post are you suffering to? i am the originator of the topic and already have a system w/ very good synergy. i think you are referring to one of the recent advice seekers?
pj325is said:I haven't come to any conclusion because I haven't seen any proof either way. My default view is "don't spend money on it." And nothing I've seen so far has swayed that position. I'm not going to try every stupid widget that's supposed to make my system sound better.
pj325is said:I haven't come to any conclusion because I haven't seen any proof either way. My default view is "don't spend money on it." And nothing I've seen so far has swayed that position. I'm not going to try every stupid widget that's supposed to make my system sound better.
Winged Creature said:Its not illogical if it sounds better to you.
Just out of curiosity whats your take on old cd players vs modern cd players. Im not talking about megabuck cd players but your standard cd player from the 80s and the standard cd player sold today.
Timedog said:Do you know anything about DAC design that would make you assume that there is no difference?--or are you assuming there is no difference because you'll feel better about not spending the money, and feel superior to those "suckers" who are likely paying for nothing?
A good DAC makes a difference. I have no idea if the 300 dollar one you guys are talking about is good or not. But if you haven't tried a good one out, then your assumptions are what is meaningless.
nitewulf said:to be honest w/ you, everything can be equalized...you would probably be happy equalizing w/ winamp, which would tone down harsh highs. never minding that some people may preffer very harsh highs, as it is more involving and forward sounding.
we are a little bit more into this stuff, just our hobby yeah?
Winged Creature said:How are you gonna see proof if you dont experience it for yourself?
nite wulf said:not to mention if you already have your mind made up that "i am not going to hear a difference because i do not expect to."
nice bubble you have setup. i like it. very political. descartes would have been impressed.
actually i am impressed. you sound like all the libertarians i know.