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[Red]

What would you guys think about this project if it were done by Chinese hackers?

Why would that change anything?

 

[FoxSpirit]

All over again. (well, sort of)

First thing I thought of. WTH is up with Square and Chrono Trigger!?!?

 

[cress2000]

I can understand if they were using original Square source code and intended to release that, but companies cannot stop independent parties from taking copyrighted material and making products based aroudn that material (Story, characters, places, and themes), as long as it isn't intended for profit. I'm guessing, and this is what I wanted clarification on, was that they were using Square source code.

Although their work is based on the original material, what they planned to release was a patch file that only included the changes; their original work, nothing copyrighted.

 

[Darkpen]

What would you guys think about this project if it were done by Chinese hackers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-ervoOpAM

:lol

 

[Regulus Tera]

From the letter:

Doesn't make it any less of a jerkmove.

 

[Prime Blue]

"But what the heck's a Cease and Desist, what SQUARE-ENIX says it wants to have?"

 

[cress2000]

I think the most hilarious thing about that C&D letter is that they think Temporal Flux is a tool designed to circumvent copy protection.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

WTF if up with Square? They've never gone after freaking ROMhacks before.

Even more absurd are people defending Square.

To make it even more ridiculous, this is what they don't go after NOT WORK SAFE

 

[bluemax]

Good on Square Enix. Protect your IP from creatively bankrupt individuals.

Make your own world and setting next time ROM hackers.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Square's also the only company to go after sites that host a lot of their music, as far as I know. They're not overly aggressive with that, but they've shut down sites in the past.

But yeah, this:

Good on Square Enix. Protect your IP from creatively bankrupt individuals.

pretty much.

 

[Mamesj]

Chrono Trigger 2: The Triggering to be announced at E3, 360 perma-exclusive.

 

[Diablos]

I think the most hilarious thing about that C&D letter is that they think Temporal Flux is a tool designed to circumvent copy protection.

Yeah, it just makes me scratch my head. I can't see any of this stuff (and keep in mind, I've played none of these unofficial spinoffs, nor did I ever really intend to) cutting into Chrono's potential future sales. I think this is a waste of effort on S-E's part. I don't see how any of this crap could threaten the profitability of a series that, with the exception of a good DS port, has been all but ignored since Cross. And, hell, even if they are finally going to do something new -- I still think this is a complete waste of time. It's not like these guys are offering free Chrono ROMs.

 

[jman2050]

Good on Square Enix. Protect your IP from creatively bankrupt individuals.

Make your own world and setting next time ROM hackers.

Your crusade against derivative works is laughable.

Thank god Sega openly doesn't give a shit or I'd really be in trouble.

 

[Kukuk]

Square-Enix is making it really hard to respect them lately.

I can understand protecting their product if hacking would make them lose money, but this most certainly does not. If anything it drives up interest in their product, then if they decide to ever make a Chrono game again people will know what it is, they'll know it's a quality product, and they will no doubt buy it.

 

[riskVSreward]

Some of you people are unbelievable and apparently don't know the first thing about rom hacking. I don't know about these projects in particular, but I have never heard of anyone trying to sell a rom hack. They're all well aware that what they're doing is borderline illegal as it is, no one should be stupid enough to try and sell a hack. Secondly, no one ever distributes the actual rom, they put up IPS patches and it's up to the player to find the rom and patch it themselves. The closest thing I can liken it to is game mods. Some of these hacks are in fact bug fixes, it doesn't get much closer to a game mod than that.

The most common type of hacks are "game improvement" and overhauls. A game improvement, in most cases is similar to a game trainer. It can range from allowing you more lives, taking less damage to making platforming easier or adding new shortcuts. An overhaul, as you should guess, is in some way or another an all new game. It might use the same story + characters, it might not. Take a look at a few of these:

Mario Adventure - an entirely new game based off of Mario 3. New levels, new powerups, a whole new way of playing Mario. One guy made it and it's incredibly impressive, quite the accomplishment. I recommend this to every Mario fan, it's really good.
Castlevania: Cadence of Agony - a very ambitious project that is turning CV3 into a Metroidvania style game.
Final Fantasy III bugfix/patch
This is all quality and typically the labor of 1-5 people over the course of months, maybe years.

My bottom line is, there's no reason Square should be sending out cease-and-desists to rom hackers distributing ips patches. The patch itself is completely meaningless, it's just a bunch of 0's and 1's as they say. It's the equivalent of a game mod, perhaps more accurately a game genie code. If someone is going to use it to patch a rom with it, that's there prerogative. The only thing they could feasibly nail them with is reverse engineering their product. The problem with that is almost every emulator has some sort of memory viewer and patch code system, why aren't they targeting the people making the emulators? (Not that I'd like them too.) The hackers themselves expect nothing in return, except maybe getting their own game reproduced for use on the actual hardware, that's gotta be the best part.

Spoiler

Sorry if it appears I'm preaching or something, I'm sure most of GAF is familiar with all of this. This is directed at all the haters.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Square-Enix is making it really hard to respect them lately.

I can understand protecting their product if hacking would make them lose money, but this most certainly does not. If anything it drives up interest in their product, then if they decide to ever make a Chrono game again people will know what it is, they'll know it's a quality product, and they will no doubt buy it.

Seriously, who touches a hack unless they've played the actual product? If anything these hacks would've brought people back to the franchise.

 

[sprocket]

My bottom line is, there's no reason Square should be sending out cease-and-desists to rom hackers

seriously listen to yourselves.

 

[Diablos]

Seriously, who touches a hack unless they've played the actual product? If anything these hacks would've brought people back to the franchise.

Yep. Those with a serious interest in ROM hacks aren't going to do a damn thing to the profitability of the game(s).

 

[Deku]

it's one thing to tolerate breaking IP law and not respecting the IP holder's rights when the IP holder looks the other way or tacitly condones because it would be too costly to prosecute or because its part of said holder's marketing strategy, but when an IP holder says stop, that's the final word.

Derivative hacking of Chrono Trigger is going to produce shit chapters that are largely for the entertainment of the few people who are into the scene.

Fan translation of rare out of print Japanese only games are at least more noble and worthy of support, but even then, IP holders hold ultimate say in whether they want that to happen or not.


Most fans don't really want hacked unofficial new chapters anyways. They're just butthurt SE hasn't put out a sequel that would likely disappoint.

 

[inner-G]

Chrono Trigger 2: The Triggering to be announced at E3, 360 perma-exclusive.

a first-person shooter with 'RPG elements'?

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Yep. Those with a serious interest in ROM hacks aren't going to do a damn thing to the profitability of the game(s).

I seriously can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. SE should worry about the genuine rom as far as tampering with their profits, not the hacks that come years down the road.

 

[Josh7289]

Square-Enix sucks balls hard! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Fewr]

* * Retranslation of Chrono Trigger

???

What is wrong with the original translation?
(Serious question, I'm curious)

 

[RevenantKioku]

Isn't this more similar to Apple sending that legal letter to a little girl? That is to say, as these guys are making a new story with the hack, were SE to make a new Chrono game for cellphones down the road, ugliness could come if any of SE's work resembled the fan-shit. I ain't no big city lawyer, but this thought came to mind.

 

[Mamesj]

???

What is wrong with the original translation?
(Serious question, I'm curious)

There was this one part when "is" was switched up with "was" and it totally conflicts with this one insignificant moment in Radical Dreamers, which makes an event in Chrono Cross seem like it was happening backwards.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

Maybe S-E should have given a crap about Chrono Trigger back in the early 90s by actually publishing it in PAL regions on the SNES. Or the PSX version. Or Chrono Cross.

Showing up 15 years later trying to peddle an ancient port on the DS at full price while shutting down the production of original material by fans tired of waiting is ridiculous. The only legal way I had to play Chrono for over a decade was by importing game and hardware because of console manufacturers' and publishers' twisted ideas of what constitutes IP protection, i.e. region coding.

I'm proud to say I've never thrown S-E a single buck for Chrono and am even less likely to now seeing their attitude to this hack.

 

[Elfforkusu]

It's Square's fault for publishing a Chrono fangame on the Playstation and starting this whole cycle.

Spoiler

But seriously, this is BS.

 

[octopusman]

???

What is wrong with the original translation?
(Serious question, I'm curious)

It was apparently not in the same vein as the Japanese version, I played a little of that one, more literate.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Let's face it. The bonus stuff in CTDS must be leagues above the fan-shit. Talented people do real work. Fans just show how crazy they are.
What gets me is you people flipping out about businesses acting like businesses.

 

[octopusman]

What's really funny is that SE has NO PROBLEM with the shitload of FF hacks, and there are A LOT.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Let's face it. The bonus stuff in CTDS must be leagues above the fan-shit.

Is this a joke post, or have you not played CTDS?

 

[octopusman]

Let's face it. The bonus stuff in CTDS must be leagues above the fan-shit. Talented people do real work. Fans just show how crazy they are.
What gets me is you people flipping out about businesses acting like businesses.

A lot of ROMhacks are difficulty or gameplay modifications to the original game, not necessarily fan-fiction stuff, look at most of the Phantasy Star and FF hacks.

 

[PhlivoSong]

that means they are going to resurrect the franchise and don't want people googling and finding the wrong thing.


that must be it


it must be

When I read this story it instantly reminded me of a few years ago when Microsoft shut down that Halo RTS fan project that was going on, and then awhile later they announced Halo Wars...

 

[flintstryker]

Good on Square Enix. Protect your IP from creatively bankrupt individuals.

Make your own world and setting next time ROM hackers.

So... they are protecting it from themselves?

 

[Mamesj]

So... they are protecting it from themselves?

OH NO HE D'INT

 

[flintstryker]

OH NO HE D'INT

I am just poking fun at him.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Pussies.

Fair use.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Is this a joke post, or have you not played CTDS?

I thought the bonus stuff in CTDS was pretty sweet. But let's pretend I didn't think that. My sentence still stands. I'll wait while you figure out this literary technique.

 

[RevenantKioku]

A lot of ROMhacks are difficulty or gameplay modifications to the original game, not necessarily fan-fiction stuff, look at most of the Phantasy Star and FF hacks.

Yes. But we are talking about not difficulty hacks, no? Plus, I don't respect those anyway.

And the retranslation should have been shut down in the name of good taste, at any rate.

 

[Mamesj]

I am just poking fun at him.

I'm just getting in on it.

 

[..pakbeka..]

if everyone on these projects uses names like MagusLover666 or ChronoSephirothGirl or whatever, as long as they don't give their real names on any profiles or email accounts they have on posted on their sites, how can they get sued? do they track their IPs? If that's the case, all they need to do is use anonymous proxies when they update their project page

aren't these letters used more for scaring these guys into stopping their work? Has any of these romhack groups been sued for ignoring a C&D letter?

 

[Elfforkusu]

I thought the bonus stuff in CTDS was pretty sweet. But let's pretend I didn't think that. My sentence still stands. I'll wait while you figure out this literary technique.

I haven't played any of this purported "fan-shit" you speak of, but I can't imagine it's that bad. Unless it's the retranslation you're thinking of, in which case I agree that putting it out of its misery is probably okay.

Fair use should probably apply here -- it's a shame it doesn't (at least not functionally)

 

[charlequin]

but when an IP holder says stop, that's the final word.

This is relatively accurate from a purely legalistic standpoint, but it's hard to give it much credence from a standpoint of what should be true. Fan-work, when not sold for profit, is a huge part of fandom in every medium, and universally is neutral to beneficial to the original creator financially (assuming they keep their work available in some way.) In a few areas, it's actually protected (anyone can legally make a "fan mod" of a song by performing a cover version of it and distributing it on the Internet), in most areas it's largely ignored by IP holders (because there really is no actual benefit to shutting down fanart and fanfic sites), and basically nowhere does it actually pose a threat to the companies in question because fan work is rarely able to meet the same standards of quality and production value as official work anyway.

There are many areas in which copyright law as corporations have sought to render it today seeks to criminalize activities that are not actually to anyone's specific benefit to stop; I'd argue pretty strongly that these kinds of fan projects are a perfect example.

 

[jman2050]

The retranslation was a godawful mess by obsessive weeaboos mad that their game had the misfortune of actually being localized for its target audience.

I don't know if Crimson Echoes would've been any good, but it sucks to see their work (presumably) thrown away under these circumstances. The situation is just weird though, ROM hacks have been around since forever and, as was stated earlier, copyrighted code is never actually distributed unless you're talking about assembled Sonic hacks, reverse engineering and ROM possession in general are a massive legal gray area.

 

[Link1110]

Let's face it. The bonus stuff in CTDS must be leagues above the fan-shit. Talented people do real work. Fans just show how crazy they are.
What gets me is you people flipping out about businesses acting like businesses.

You're acting like the hack in question was from the same people as the retranslation... Oh, wait.

Square still had no business doing this. They gained nothing.

 

[jman2050]

aren't these letters used more for scaring these guys into stopping their work? Has any of these romhack groups been sued for ignoring a C&D letter?

That's part of what makes this case so interesting. To my knowledge, no one has ever been C&D'd for a rom hack. Ever.

 

[t3nmilez]

Wow, I'm amazed that the project was so far along, there's no way that we won't be seeing it again in some form.

I somewhat remember the cries for that remake that Square also shut down, although I was positive that there was no way that would have been released either way, way too ambitious for something that people were doing in their free time.

I've found most rom hacks to be missing the magic of the original game and usually don't enjoy playing them, but I got nothing against other people enjoying them. No one really wins in this situation, and it's somewhat unusual that SE seems to really be projective of the Chrono franchise.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I haven't played any of this purported "fan-shit" you speak of, but I can't imagine it's that bad. Unless it's the retranslation you're thinking of, in which case I agree that putting it out of its misery is probably okay.

Fair use should probably apply here -- it's a shame it doesn't (at least not functionally)

Fan-anything is usually of low quality. Fact of life. I enjoy seeing these things shut down as it sends a clear message of "do your own shit" which is usually drowned out in tears of Mountain Dew.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Square still had no business doing this. They gained nothing.

They gained my respect. And laughter. And my laughter is worth a good dealin the market.

 

[flintstryker]

Fan-anything is usually of low quality. Fact of life. I enjoy seeing these things shut down as it sends a clear message of "do your own shit" which is usually drowned out in tears of Mountain Dew.

I don't know about many fan hacks in general but Mario Adventure was a hack that i would say is on par with some of the mario games made by nintendo themselves.

They gained my respect. And laughter. And my laughter is worth a good dealin the market.

Glad to see that you agree that they gained nothing