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Toons
Member
Yeah I know "cringe"
But i think it can be a topic worth covering in a movie. Im glad they didn't make all the kens inherently bad, heck they didn't even try and say the normal stuff that a lot of guys do like playing guitar was all awful or toxic but that it was a result of their emotional abandonment and they didn't say that seeking to be respected was inherently bad. Its just not something you require a woman to do for you.
The movie never came across as "kill all men" but more like "bring out the good parts of men", and i like that it neither made that the barbies' responsibility nor ignored the role barbies played in that. I will say I agreed with your take that it would've felt more earned for barbie to want to be a real person if they'd spent more time covering what that would entail but that little sequence at the end was kinda nice.
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Next up: The Pope's Exorcist, a surprisingly nuanced and accurate take on the inner workings of the catholic church
Toons
Member
Maybe accurate is the wrong term. It definitely embellishes things for the sake of humor and reducing the convoluted discussion. As I've said, I will always reward ambition even if it can be clunky, and the movie felt like it actually had an idea what it wanted to say, and a lot of other movies shied away from it.
I was fully expecting the CEO to be a cartoonishly evil bad guy, but they didn't do that, and I can appreciate that.
Like I said I think the movie is good, I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but there's elements of it i liked a lot. I can imagine a woman may appreciate it more.
InterMusketeer
Member
Toons
Member
Honestly its not gonna make sense to describe unless you've seen the film.
Its very goofy but kinda hilarious.
InterMusketeer
Member
The premise of seriously linking a man's hobby like playing guitar to emotional abandonment doesn't sound very funny to me, let alone nuanced and accurate. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
It's not that deep in any way lol. This movie is blatantly stupid (on purpose) and breaks the fourth wall to call itself out. It's just a silly movie top to bottom. And it takes shots at men, women, the directors, the actors, the whole deal. It knows how silly and dumb it is and embraces it. That's why it's made a billion.
EruditeHobo
Member
$775 million in 9 days, and likely crossing a billion next week.
Box Office: ‘Barbie’ Dances to $775M Globally, Days Away From Joining Billion-Dollar Club
Barbenheimer is real as 'Oppenheimer' hits its own milestone in crossing $400 million worldwide.www.hollywoodreporter.com
You know what they say... go woke,
Anyway. Finally made time to check it out tonight. Doing the proper Barbenheimer double feature... in the Universal City IMAX, which I'm told is the specific room for which Nolan sound designs his movies? Or something like that, at least.
FullMetalx117
Member
Yup, It’s been pretty hilarious so far that somehow this movie has turned into a deep philosophical debate. People calling out jokesters/woke, can’t take jokes themselves (as per usual)
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I don't care about compliments because either way you're only respected for the service you provide. You can be the hottest guy and it doesn't matter if you can't make valuable service of yourself, likewise even the worst dude will be received if he provides valuable service. The one and only metric for men. Want to win a man over? Seem like you care about anything of who he is besides his service/productivity. Want to be invisible to a man? Be yet another voice in the ocean of people and establishments measuring his validity to exist by his performance. Just like women trying to look their best, yeah they are doing it, but that's because it is required by society and it isn't for you specifically until they decide that is their intention. While you want to appreciate her, she wants you to stop trying to get at her intimate person and appreciate her respectable efforts. Inverse for the guys where everyone looks only at their respectable efforts and they want to be seen and loved as a person besides how the other person profits off them.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I don’t think anyone is paying $20 to hate watch a movie at the cinema.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Pretty sure that it wouldn’t have made a billion without the barbie name. Whether the movie is stupid on purpose or not, I can’t say for sure.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The gags and parodies have a self-aware tone.
Barbie success is A. because it was funny, B. because it was well written and funny, C. because it had the perfect actors and was funny, and D. because it had a female centric message.
So what lesson will the studios take from this? MORE FEMALE CENTRIC MESSAGES!!!!!!! totally forgetting the funny, well written, well acted bits.
Granted, I've not seen Barbie, but my wife has so using the opinion of the woman most important to me, this is my analysis of it's success. Made a GOOD, SOLID, FUNNY movie FIRST, then you can work in some grandstanding.
So what lesson will the studios take from this? MORE FEMALE CENTRIC MESSAGES!!!!!!! totally forgetting the funny, well written, well acted bits.
Granted, I've not seen Barbie, but my wife has so using the opinion of the woman most important to me, this is my analysis of it's success. Made a GOOD, SOLID, FUNNY movie FIRST, then you can work in some grandstanding.
BlackTron
Member
I find this to be a staggeringly deep insight.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Sorry I didn't respond to these earlier.
That's a good point. Part of me was thinking that maybe there should have been a stronger attempt at having a stronger representative of a "normal" man in the real world, but upon reflection, he could have been that. It seemed like the movie was hinting that the dad is probably a step-dad, and that he is learning Spanish to connect more closely to his family. Which would add additional context to the "where did you learn how to drive like that? Um, dad? ehehehe" lines.
I do those things too
That's a good point. Part of me was thinking that maybe there should have been a stronger attempt at having a stronger representative of a "normal" man in the real world, but upon reflection, he could have been that. It seemed like the movie was hinting that the dad is probably a step-dad, and that he is learning Spanish to connect more closely to his family. Which would add additional context to the "where did you learn how to drive like that? Um, dad? ehehehe" lines.
I do those things too
Grildon Tundy
Gold Member
Toons
Member
I mean... more female centric messages is fine, but there's always going to be weak films. It only takes one successful one of a less touched upon subject to tell execs that maybe there's a market there. If that opens the door for more of the strong and weak variety so be it, it will iron itself out.
But quality has never been the top priority of these corporations, its all about the money. The good art we get is because of the work of the creators that put them out, but they have to filter through the capital based thing first.
Theres been attempts at what barbie essentially does in the past few years, but none of them were as well done, or had as wide an appeal.
GooseMan69
Member
I’m a little LTTP here, but my fiancée and I saw it yesterday. I am obviously not the target audience, but I was STILL let down by it. I’m not into the culture war bullshit at all. I turn a blind eye to all the little political talking points that get snuck into every movie/show/game these days. But this was such an insane level of pandering and lecturing. It literally felt like a Twitter thread in movie form.
This is gonna sound like a bullshit story, but my fiancée was using the bathroom after and said she saw a young girl crying to her mom because “they were mean to the boys” in the movie lol. I’m not one to pearl clutch, but I have to imagine this messaging is very confusing for a child.
This is gonna sound like a bullshit story, but my fiancée was using the bathroom after and said she saw a young girl crying to her mom because “they were mean to the boys” in the movie lol. I’m not one to pearl clutch, but I have to imagine this messaging is very confusing for a child.
JCK75
Member
My girlfriend really seemed like she wanted to see it, so I apologized for shitting all over it when it first came up and told her I'd take one for the team and see it with her.
It had some very funny moments, a ton of super cringe moments.. and every time Gloria or her daughter spoke some outright brain killing moments..
Overall it was not as horrible as I expected.. but I still walked out completely confused exactly who this movie was made for and being very happy I never have to watch it again.
It had some very funny moments, a ton of super cringe moments.. and every time Gloria or her daughter spoke some outright brain killing moments..
Overall it was not as horrible as I expected.. but I still walked out completely confused exactly who this movie was made for and being very happy I never have to watch it again.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
We saw it last night (just platinumed Barbenheimer woo!), I thought it was about 85% amazing, 15% cringe. I really respect when a movie just commits to the bit and never really lets up, and that's this movie for the vast majority of the time. There are jokes packed in everywhere and I think most people in the theater missed a lot of them, including my wife...I think I was laughing more than anyone because there were so many subtle gags they missed. It's not quite Airplane! in that regard, but there's really something funny going on in most shots. The cringe part was definitely the mom's monologue and some of the deprogramming the Barbies stuff, but the final part of that where the camera pulls back and all the Kens hit the chorus of Push together got me so good. Then the Ken battle and dance number was fantastic. Gosling was all in man and it's great.
I think Barbie leaving to become human at the end was kinda dumb, and in that way it didn't quite stick the landing for me, but overall it was a really good time. Don't regret going at all. My MIL came with us and had some gaudy sequin shirt on she bought for the occasion, which was funny too!
I think Barbie leaving to become human at the end was kinda dumb, and in that way it didn't quite stick the landing for me, but overall it was a really good time. Don't regret going at all. My MIL came with us and had some gaudy sequin shirt on she bought for the occasion, which was funny too!
killatopak
Member
Watched it because Oppenheimer tickets were sold out. Honestly, not for me. I laughed at a few jokes but I didn't really see any progression in terms of the world. It ended the same way it started.
The most disappointing thing for me was that the real world was barbified specifically Mattel. It turned into a looney tunes chase when I expected some kind of a bigger whiplash of seriousness with their meeting with Barbie to make a bigger contrast between the worlds.
Regarding the casts, I cannot help but think this would had been better if the movie was made when Barbie and Ken were a bit younger. Other than that, I think it was fine.
The most disappointing thing for me was that the real world was barbified specifically Mattel. It turned into a looney tunes chase when I expected some kind of a bigger whiplash of seriousness with their meeting with Barbie to make a bigger contrast between the worlds.
Regarding the casts, I cannot help but think this would had been better if the movie was made when Barbie and Ken were a bit younger. Other than that, I think it was fine.
sono
Gold Member
Sorry for the poor analogy but isn't that a bit like going to buy ice cream and coming out with a jar of marmite because they sold out of ice cream?
killatopak
Member
There were 5 people among us. 3 of us were going to Oppenheimer and 2 were going to Barbie. We all went to Barbie as a group instead. I wouldn't watch it alone.
Toons
Member
Just got back from seeing this and it's the above, does it take shots at the Patriarchy? Yes, Does it take shots at Feminism? Yes, Is it heavy handed with some of the themes? Yes, Does it take itself seriously? NO, there's fourth wall breaks that mocks how Margot Robbie is a bad choice to play a character complaining about being ugly and it doesn't glorify the creator of Barbie, the character openly mocks how she's a tax evader and wanted by the IRS for fraud. Ryan Gosling was the stand out in this movie and the best scene was the Kens vs Kens beach fight.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Truly the white woman’s black panther.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
It rather seems like crowbarring feminism into male skewing franchises is not actually the way to appeal to women.
Well done Disney, you fucking clowns. Instead of creating fresh, new movies and TV shows for a female audience like Barbie, you’ve destroyed all of your major franchises built for men.
Oh, how Kathleen Kennedy must look with envy on Barbie’s success, while completely failing to understand why her shit has failed so hard.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Indeed trying to appeal to women by completely butchering male centered content is definitely not the way to go. It's far more reasonable to do content directly targeted to women rather than offer them the corpse with lipstick of a franchise centered on men.
Toons
Member
I sont know if Id go as far as to call star wars exclusively male centered since its inception. Its always done decently with females too, just not on the same tier. They're less likely to be hard-core fans, but I digress.
MCU on the other hand has been extremely popular with women, so not sure what the stance is there.
Disney's female centered stuff is mostly aimed at young girls with their princess franchises, movies like wish or etc
Barbie also is not exclusively a women's movie. I know a lot of folks, a surprising number of males going to see it, or interested in doing so. I think it has less to do with male vs female and more with a strong ad campaign that highlighted its uniqueness and difference totally from other franchises, Margot robbie and gosling casting etc.
Toons
Member
That isnt the films message at all. Its quite the opposite
AJUMP23
Gold Member
World is great, men take over and ruin it, women fix it by tricking all the men, all men are shown to be selfish petty and clueless. Women have more put on them than anyone else. Even kids don't treat moms and dads equally. the one dad in the movie is irrelevant and clueless.
Barbie is meant to inspire women, but that inspiration does not have diminish others. This movie actively works to say women can do anything but men stop it.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I think it's fair to say that both Star Wars and the MCU are (were) predominantly targeted at young males. And Barbie is predominantly targeted at young women. There is always a fair degree of cross over, but it would be a bit disingenuous to say that franchises like Star Wars weren't built on a foundation of a male audience. Vice versa for Barbie.
Barbie is probably the first actual example of a franchise built for women - and I applaud that. I would like to see more, just as much as I would like to see male dominated franchises return to appealing to them again.
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She actually co wrote it with her husband from what I hear.
FullMetalx117
Member
The success of this movie is clear and reasons why is well shown on any online forum board: Oppenheimer, which is an all time great movie and is super successful in its own right, a movie that should've been a triumph for men/incels everywhere, is having its philosophical discussion overshadowed by the likes of Barbie. The nerds are finding the hidden meaning of Barbie wayyy more interesting than Oppenheimer for whatever reason. THAT is the most shocking thing that came out of this (maybe shouldn't have been)
Toons
Member
Yeah, no.
The world didn't go bad because men took it over. It was already bad because the barbies fostered a rivalry between the kens with their neglect. That led to them being so easily susceptible to something like this. Then things went bad because they started outright subjugating the barbies. The solution was to work together to build a better society. For the barbies to value the Ken's and the kens to support the barbies as well.
Theres only one dad in the movie and hes not treated any differently hes just not the focus? The main girl didn't even wanna be around her mom at all for the first half.
You're reaching.
That's exactly what the movies message was. The only reason ken wanted to do any of that was because he felt diminished.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
That’s not going to happen. Most big male dominated franchises have been appropriated to appeal to women.
SiriusBlack
Neo Member
Finally got around to watching it. Could only make it through 30 minutes. Cynical and cheap and awful.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
For now. It'll change again, because Hollywood always chases whatever trends are popular. And the effects of the strikes will have an impact if they hold out for the terms they're after.
All these grotty little activist idiots with zero creative skills but big mouths will find themselves out of work pretty damn quick once we can start to see how successful their bullshit actually is (spoiler: it ain't).
Roufianos
Member
Add me to the crowd that got dragged to it with a gf.
I thought it was ok, quite fun in places. I didn't think it was all that woke, outside of the Barbie who was clearly a dude. It actually felt like they were parodying SJWs with the daughter.
Ken was stupid, but so was Barbie. I don't think it was advocating the original matriarchy model as Barbie admitted she'd been wrong.
I think if people are offended by the portrayal of men here, we're starting to sound like the easily offended woke idiots we laugh at.
I thought it was ok, quite fun in places. I didn't think it was all that woke, outside of the Barbie who was clearly a dude. It actually felt like they were parodying SJWs with the daughter.
Ken was stupid, but so was Barbie. I don't think it was advocating the original matriarchy model as Barbie admitted she'd been wrong.
I think if people are offended by the portrayal of men here, we're starting to sound like the easily offended woke idiots we laugh at.