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[Veelk]

Y'all are mega desperate not to attribute anything good to Snyder, huh

He has a good sense of making iconic (if monochromatic) imagery.

That's about as much as I can credit his talents. I'd also say he is makes good fight choreography, but BvS really doesn't show it.

I'd be dumb to argue that the Arkham games didn't at least inspire the choreography of that fight but if this is the narrative moving forward with reactions to Batman fight scenes, no thank you. The same way "Eisenberg was just imitating Ledger" irritates the shit out of me.

It was inspired by the arkham games about the same way The Lion King was inspired by Kimba the White Lion. You could literally replicate 80% of it in the games.

Bullshit he didn't have any other option. He told Gordon to blow up the bridge killing Ra's and tried to justify it by saying he didn't have to save him. Motherfucker caused it. Then there's the whole driving the tumbler underneath the truck or killing the league of assassins. I personally like the redemptive arc Batfleck went through and I think the reason why Batfleck was so violent was to give Superman more reason to dislike him.

Again, manslaughter. He didn't plan to kill Ra's nor did he tell Gordon to blow the bridge for the purpose of his death. If he didn't blow the bridge, the bomb that was gonna kill everyone would have killed everyone, so while he is certainly negligent of Ra's death that could be considered out of character (a discussion for another time), it is once again not something you can compare BvS's savagery to.

 

[IconGrist]

It was inspired by the arkham games about the same way The Lion King was inspired by Kimba the White Lion. You could literally replicate 80% of it in the games.

Yea, but any competently put together "one versus many" fight scene could be argued as well. The difference here is it's literally the same character (with obvious Batman techniques even seen in the Nolan movies) so of course the comparisons will be in full force. Just think it's a bit disingenuous to say "Rocksteady the real designers".

 

[Veelk]

Yea, but any competently put together "one versus many" fight scene could be argued as well. The difference here is it's literally the same character (with obvious Batman techniques even seen in the Nolan movies) so of course the comparisons will be in full force. Just think it's a bit disingenuous to say "Rocksteady the real designers".

No. Not at all. I'm not going to get into an deep argument about it, but when I can literally replicate everything happening here in the games with as significant degree of accuracy as I saw there, then it's basically plagiarism.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

No. Not at all. I'm not going to get into an deep argument about it,

If it goes without saying, then you should go, without saying.

 

[Veelk]

If it goes without saying, then you should go, without saying.

But then how would I annoy you?

Also, that's a terrible turn about of words, since I never said 'it goes without saying'It definitely goes with saying. That's why I said it.

Come on, you can do better.

 

[IconGrist]

No. Not at all. I'm not going to get into an deep argument about it, but when I can literally replicate everything happening here in the games with as significant degree of accuracy as I saw there, then it's basically plagiarism.

OR you could not be a Negative Nancy and say it was an homage, lol. Just depends what side of the fence you sit on, I guess.

 

[HughJanuss]

So yesterday I watched this movie (UC) for the first time and I think its an ok movie.
Besides the wierd cuts, I had 2 big problems with this movie.

-

Spoiler

Why the hell did she go back for the spear? did I miss anything? wtf.

-

Spoiler

Im pretty sure Lex Luthor is a character that supposed to be cold, calculated and charismatic. WTF happend? This guy thinks hes the Joker or something.

Anyway, I give this movie a solid 7/10.

 

[IconGrist]

Ah, the 7/10.

Speaking of I was quite surprised to learn that Schnepp who just about hated the theatrical cut gave it like a 7 or something along those lines. Who the hell gives a movie they really do not like a 7?

 

[blueyesdevil]

I loved the TC, how will I like this?

 

[obin_gam]

I loved the TC, how will I like this?

A lot better.

 

[Lord Virgin]

Ah, the 7/10.

Speaking of I was quite surprised to learn that Schnepp who just about hated the theatrical cut gave it like a 7 or something along those lines. Who the hell gives a movie they really do not like a 7?

He gave it a 7 after his first viewing, second time he dropped it to like a 6.5. And over time he liked the movie less and less and eventually just hated it.

 

[IconGrist]

I loved the TC, how will I like this?

If you don't mind the length odds are you'll probably like it even more. I don't think I've seen anyone say the UC was worse even if they hated it.

He gave it a 7 after his first viewing, second time he dropped it to like a 6.5. And over time he liked the movie less and less and eventually just hated it.

Ah, I see. I remember watching his initial review and he didn't care for it then so 7 still seems a bit high for what his initial impressions were. He was visibly unhappy.

 

[Veelk]

OR you could not be a Negative Nancy and say it was an homage, lol. Just depends what side of the fence you sit on, I guess.

I'm more of a Neutral Nathan. I approach this film like I would any other, save for the inherent investment I have with the superhero characters themselves. I don't have anything against Zack Snyder or even this film in particular.

I just think it is actually, truly that bad.

And my first thoughts when I watched that warehouse scene were something along the lines of "Well, someone clearly just played the Arkham Games." So however you disagree with me, I'm not just bagging on the movie just to be mean to it.

Edit: Jesus, even at his funeral, Snyder focus' the shot on the artillery fire and the shell as it falls down. "But why don't you prove how he obsesses about violence, Veelk". Feh.

 

[blueyesdevil]

Awesome, I'm actually hyped for this.

 

[IconGrist]

I'm more of a Neutral Nathan. I approach this film like I would any other, save for the inherent investment I have with the superhero characters themselves. I don't have anything against Zack Snyder or even this film in particular.

I just think it is actually, truly that bad.

And my first thoughts when I watched that warehouse scene were something along the lines of "Well, someone clearly just played the Arkham Games." So however you disagree with me, I'm not just bagging on the movie just to be mean to it.

Nah, I just think you are far more critical than I am. Likely with anything. Nothing wrong with that so don't take that as some sort of insult.

 

[Veelk]

Heh...so at the end of the film,

Spoiler

Batman apparently has Luthor transferred into Arkham. Specifically, he says "We have facilities where we treat mentally ill patients with compassion to rehabilitate them...but you're not going there."

Which....kind of makes me laugh. I'm pretty sure this wasn't in the TC. Because everyone was pointing to this scene as proof. "Look, Batman could have branded him, but didn't, he was more merciful!'

But this UC changes things.

Spoiler

First, Batman didn't brand people to die (and therefore pass his own judgement on them), but out of a sheer power trip. It's sadism, but it moves around the issue that Batman thinks he's judge jury and executioner. Okay, so instead, Batman circumvents the justice system for his own judgement to pass on Luthor by sending him to a place where he 'has friends' And that place is Arkham Asylum! The worst place on earth in the DC universe! Where he all but says it's a place he's sending him to torture him via guards he controls! So, now he's Judge, Jury and Torturer!

I'm sure someone will rationalize it into a positive improvement by the time I see this thread again, but right now, I just think it's hilarious. The 'redemption arc' everyone thought he underwent literally places him in mostly the same place he was before. Fantastic.

 

[Alienous]

So yesterday I watched this movie (UC) for the first time and I think its an ok movie.
Besides the wierd cuts, I had 2 big problems with this movie.

-

Spoiler

Why the hell did she go back for the spear? did I miss anything? wtf.

-

Spoiler

Im pretty sure Lex Luthor is a character that supposed to be cold, calculated and charismatic. WTF happend? This guy thinks hes the Joker or something.

Anyway, I give this movie a solid 7/10.

Spoiler

1. She sees the nearby explosions, realizing that someone decided to bring the fight back to the city. You see her take a second to put two and two together, and determine that it's probably because of the spear. All non-verbally, of course.

2. Snyder decided to go with a creative casting choice. Eisenberg, in his interviews, doesn't seem to have much of an idea who Lex Luthor is - he certainly doesn't care, at least. Horribly miscast.

Heh...so at the end of the film,

Spoiler

Batman apparently has Luthor transferred into Arkham. Specifically, he says "We have facilities where we treat mentally ill patients with compassion to rehabilitate them...but you're not going there."

Which....kind of makes me laugh. I'm pretty sure this wasn't in the TC. Because everyone was pointing to this scene as proof. "Look, Batman could have branded him, but didn't, he was more merciful!'

But this UC changes things.

Spoiler

First, Batman didn't brand people to die (and therefore pass his own judgement on them), but out of a sheer power trip. It's sadism, but it moves around the issue that Batman thinks he's judge jury and executioner. Okay, so instead, Batman circumvents the justice system for his own judgement to pass on Luthor by sending him to a place where he 'has friends' And that place is Arkham Asylum! The worst place on earth in the DC universe! Where he all but says it's a place he's sending him to torture him via guards he controls! So, now he's Judge, Jury and Torturer!

I'm sure someone will rationalize it into a positive improvement by the time I see this thread again, but right now, I just think it's hilarious. This piece of shit didn't change, he just shifted targets. Fantastic.

I don't think

Spoiler

Batman was talking about the guards. His 'friends in Arkham', or whatever he said, gave me the impression he was talking about the inmates. It was sort of fucked to have Batman look at Arkham Asylum as a place where rehabilitation doesn't happen, but hey, 20 years, it's a realistic viewpoint to have

.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Yeah that's the point. Superman finally wants to clarify his stance but an oppressive system won't even let him do that. As a result, his actions are constantly misinterpreted, as the world expects him to be a God and solve every problem ever and then gets infuriated with him when he doesn't much like Man of Steel detractors cough cough

Except we as an audience don't have a grasp on his mission statement either. Despite all the flashbacks in Man of Steel, despite all the monologues about hope, Clark never declares for himself (or the audience) what Superman is. And that's been the core failing of Cavill's Superman - neither story just bothers to ask Clark why he puts on the costume. I mean there's circumstantial reasons, obviously. Zod comes to Earth, yadda yadda. But we never see him really make the choice behind that identity.

We see it in Bale's Batman. We see it in Maguire's Spider-Man. We see it in Welling's Spider-Man. We see it in Captain America. We see it in Iron Man. We see it in freakin' Ant-Man, even (though it comes from Hank Pym, and Scott fully agrees with it).

But we never see it with Cavill's Superman. He is Superman because the story simply demands he be Superman.

 

[Veelk]

I don't think

Spoiler

Batman was talking about the guards. His 'friends in Arkham', or whatever he said, gave me the impression he was talking about the inmates. It was sort of fucked to have Batman look at Arkham Asylum as a place where rehabilitation doesn't happen, but hey, 20 years, it's a realistic viewpoint.

.

I mean, I doubt that unless

Spoiler

the inmates run the asylum (which is possible), but what does that change here? He's still basically sending him to a place of torture that he, in some way, has influence over, while circumventing the rightful will of the people in the court of law.

The point here is...his 'character development' has landed in basically the characterization that Lex had up until now falsely accused him of to get Clark to have a go at him. Someone who ignores the law and condemns criminals to whatever judgements he chooses. The only distinction is that he hasn't killed Luthor, but Arkham is routinely acknowledge to be worse than death in most incarnations.

And, after all this bullshit about this being his redemption arc, that is simply hilarious.

Except we as an audience don't have a grasp on his mission statement either. Despite all the flashbacks in Man of Steel, despite all the monologues about hope, Clark never declares for himself (or the audience) what Superman is. And that's been the core failing of Cavill's Superman - neither story just bothers to ask Clark why he puts on the costume. I mean there's circumstantial reasons, obviously. Zod comes to Earth, yadda yadda. But we never see him really make the choice behind that identity.

We see it in Bale's Batman. We see it in Maguire's Spider-Man. We see it in Welling's Spider-Man. We see it in Captain America. We see it in Iron Man. We see it in freakin' Ant-Man, even (though it comes from Hank Pym, and Scott fully agrees with it).

But we never see it with Cavill's Superman. He is Superman because the story simply demands he be Superman.

Also, I'd like to point out that if Clark wanted to make a mission statement, he doesn't have to go to a senate meeting to do it.

Make a YouTube account and record your statement.

Shit is simple.

 

[IconGrist]

Batman was definitely talking about friends who work there and will pull favors for him. Not the inmates.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Also, I'd like to point out that if Clark wanted to make a mission statement, he doesn't have to go to a senate meeting to do it.

Make a YouTube account and record your statement.

Shit is simple.

Just do like Kick-Ass, set up a MySpace account and let people message you with their problems!

"YO SUPES, MY LANDLORD IS BEING A FUCKING ASSHOLE AND WON'T TURN MY WATER BACK ON. HELP ME OUT!"

"Dear Superman, Judy is being a total jerk at school and took my snack pack. Please snap her neck."

"Dear Superman, I am currently on fire. HEEEEEEELP! DX"

 

[Alienous]

Batman was definitely talking about friends who work there and will pull favors for him. Not the inmates.

Nah, I prefer my intepretation.

 

[Veelk]

Just do like Kick-Ass, set up a MySpace account and let people message you with their problems!

"YO SUPES, MY LANDLORD IS BEING A FUCKING ASSHOLE AND WON'T TURN MY WATER BACK ON. HELP ME OUT!"

"Dear Superman, Judy is being a total jerk at school and took my snack pack. Please snap her neck."

"Dear Superman, I am currently on fire. HEEEEEEELP!"

Wasn't his job as a reporter basically justified as being the hub for all relevant crime happening in metropolis?

I know the story got reinvented, but this actually makes so much more sense for modern superheroes to have, especially superman.

 

[AusRoachman]

Finally we know Batmans one true weakness , anyone named Martha .

Imagine if lexs mum was named Martha , him and bats would be friends .

 

[Shaanyboi]

Wasn't his job as a reporter basically justified as being the hub for all relevant crime happening in metropolis?

I know the story got reinvented, but this actually makes so much more sense for modern superheroes to have, especially superman.

Hell, if he just spent all his time browsing Neogaf, he'd have plenty of problems to solve to be running 24/7.

"A female friend said she wants to eat my cone."

UP UP AND AWAY!

 

[Garrett Hawke]

We should do a poll to find out how many people on GAF hate this movie (UE), but consider Alien 3's DC to be good.

Admittedly, this serves no purpose, save for sheer amusement.

Alien 3 in any form is trash.

 

[Veelk]

Lex should conscript an army of marthas and an army of thomas. Like, not soldiers or anything, just normal people with those names. And then sent them all to attack batman. He'll be crying in a fetal position within the minute.

Hell, if he just spent all his time browsing Neogaf, he'd have plenty of problems to solve to be running 24/7.

"A female friend said she wants to eat my cone."

UP UP AND AWAY!

Here's the real test of whether Superman is a dick or not. What would he do to help Gaf-man in this situation?

 

[FeD.nL]

Except he sees Lex as a man not an alien.

 

[IconGrist]

Here's the real test of whether Superman is a dick or not. What would he do to help Gaf-man in this situation?

Not Lois? Not giving a fuck.

 

[esmith08734]

Can I rent this anywhere first?

 

[IconGrist]

Can I rent this anywhere first?

Not likely. Usually not until the disc version is out.

 

[BokehKing]

Ah, the 7/10.

Speaking of I was quite surprised to learn that Schnepp who just about hated the theatrical cut gave it like a 7 or something along those lines. Who the hell gives a movie they really do not like a 7?

Because a 7 is a polite way of saying the movie was average.

Which even with the added scenes it still was a 7 (to me, it actually raised from a 5)

Watching the extended cut proved one thing to me, the things I did not like about the film could not be fixed with an extended cut.

I'm guessing in the end that's a Snyder problem, with more Affleck involved, I'm hoping for a much more coherent Justice League film.

 

[Discotheque]

nah if i drop them numbers i'd say 6 is an average movie. 5 or less ranges from watchable to trash.

 

[IconGrist]

nah if i drop them numbers i'd say 6 is an average movie. 5 or less ranges from watchable to trash.

Haha, yea, 5 is like, "I remember the movie started and then I remember it ending and that's all I got. Not good, not bad, just nothing. I have no memory of it."

 

[BokehKing]

It's a callback to 911. Some people didn't abandon the buildings until ordered in fear for their jobs.

Eh this is my problem with a call back to 9/11

When buildings came down and vast clouds of debris and rubble swept through the streets like tidal waves....people emerged looking like this

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yVWVbxm.jpg[/IMG]

Not like this

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mrU8nzK.jpg[/IMG]

Not a speck of dust lands on the guy, he runs straight into a thick wall of soot and his suit is still bluer than Superman's.

Some would say that was the brightest scene of the movie.

 

[Veelk]

Movie magic is always more about what seems real rather than what is real.

Even if that was the actual way things happened, actually seeing it play out was pretty ridiculous.

 

[SJRB]

Also can I just say how much of a badass the Russian guy was? I loved how he was everywhere in the Ultimate Edition, had way more screentime than in the theatrical cut. Excellent henchman.

 

[Proc]

I enjoyed the movie more than expected. Watched it for the first time last night.

I don't really agree with Batman's portrayal or motivations for wanting to kill superman. I was actually uncomfortable seeing Batman knock superman around like that.

The opening really had me worried but they reeled it back in. Snyder's general dark tone felt off at times too.

I actually enjoyed superman in this movie. I felt for the guy and his motivations seemed earned.

I enjoyed Lex for the most part. I felt his last couple scenes were a bit cringe.

Overall, I enjoyed it.

 

[PhantomZone]

I thought the TC was alright, as such it's my second favorite movie experience this year (Deadpool #1, BvS #2, Civil War #3, X-Men: Apocalypse #4).

I enjoyed it but concede that it was full of bad editing causing plot holes galore, bad scripted lines by characters, wooden acting by the actors. Having watched the UE, what I disliked about the film was still present (can't really undo the story they went with, can we ? haha).

What I enjoyed:
Wonder Woman's appearance in the final battle, the moment of the movie for me
The dream sequences/alternate reality - as a DC fan I marked out so much .


What the DC Universe needs is to lift stories directly from comic books. WB panicked over Marvel/Paramount/Disney's success and just rushed everything. What we have now are clusterbomb fails - Man of Steel was rubbish, Batman v Superman was a whole lot of potential that wound up being flushed down the toilet.

People want a coherent story from start to finish.

 

[Bit-Bit]

I went from liking the theatrical cut to thinking the Ultimate Cut is my most favorite superhero movie.

The movie actually felt shorter now since the scenes flow from one to the next so much better.

 

[Human Trashcan]

I think you and Veelk are saying the same thing here.

And I'm guessing you haven't seen the Ultimate Cut, because NOW it's a 3 hour movie and apparently has establishing shots, with scenes fitting into each other, and more fleshed out characters. But I understand if you don't want to give the UC a shot

I did watch the UC. I never saw the theatrical cut. My read on it wasn't influenced by anything. It was just incredibly disjointed and felt amateurish in the amount of basic filmmaking 101 mistakes it was committing, especially with regards to editing and lack of establishing shots. Like, that Justice League "trailer" in the middle of the movie was so gob-smackingly out of place. That should've been a post-credits stinger or something.

 

[Ahasverus]

I actually enjoyed superman in this movie. I felt for the guy and his motivations seemed earned.

Overall, I enjoyed it.

This is the UC greatest triumph. He was a posing character in the TC.

 

[Human Trashcan]

Congratulations, you have correctly assessed that Batman is one of the villains of this movie.

Soon we will move onto other basic concepts of literacy, such as "Lois is Superman's girlfriend" and "Wonder Woman wears red."

LOL if you think the movie itself actually agrees that Batman is a villain I'm afraid you have failed the literacy test. I mean there's a point where he's called out by Alfred, I guess...? But he doesn't atone or redeem himself. He hears his mother's name and helps fight Doomsday, because duh. That's it. Then for the rest of the movie he's just treated as a hero and it's all good because he doesn't brand Lex. It's completely swept under the rug.

 

[Alienous]

This is the UC greatest triumph. He was a posing character in the TC.

He almost becomes a sympathetic hero. It's not quite there, for me, but it's a lot better. It's great to see him really struggling with how the world views him. In the TC he's like "Hey Lois, don't listen to that", in this

Spoiler

at every opportunity he's listening to the news talk about him, and he's getting shit on

. That,

Spoiler

along with the scene after the bombing

, really helps to contextualize his self-imposed exile. I was looking at him like "This dude is going to collapse and start scream hysterically any moment now".

That's one thing the UC portrays well.

Spoiler

He's getting pummeled by the negatively-biased media and it's hitting his core. His call to Martha Kent, which was basically just "shit, I need to talk to someone", was good also for giving you an insight into his psyche

.

But all through it I can't help but think just start a Twitter account, Clark. Talk to the people.

 

[MisterHero]

LOL if you think the movie itself actually agrees that Batman is a villain I'm afraid you have failed the literacy test.

I'm pretty sure Bats WAS an antagonist. Besides his demeanor, the armor, spear, and voice modulation turned him into a monster. He sheds it when Lois and Clark finally reach him.

Man-Bat in one of his dreams supports that development.

 

[Ahasverus]

Yeah Batman is treated as an antagonist, that's obvious. If one hadn't seen a single piece of DC media before and entered blind to the movie, it would appear as if Batman was a rival.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Worth picking up the BR?

The TC was like a 6.5/10 for me, very flawed but with flashes of greatness.

 

[Lord Virgin]

He almost becomes a sympathetic hero. It's not quite there, for me, but it's a lot better. It's great to see him really struggling with how the world views him. In the TC he's like "Hey Lois, don't listen to that", in this

Spoiler

at every opportunity he's listening to the news talk about him, and he's getting shit on

. That,

Spoiler

along with the scene after the bombing

, really helps to contextualize his self-imposed exile. I was looking at him like "This dude is going to collapse and start scream hysterically any moment now".

That's one thing the UC portrays well.

Spoiler

He's getting pummeled by the negatively-biased media and it's hitting his core. His call to Martha Kent, which was basically just "shit, I need to talk to someone", was good also for giving you an insight into his psyche

.

But all through it I can't help but think just start a Twitter account, Clark. Talk to the people.

Supes just needs a GAF account. Maybe he is waiting for activation.

 

[Alienous]

Worth picking up the BR?

The TC was like a 6.5/10 for me, very flawed but with flashes of greatness.

Yeah, if only to see them change Superman from being a plot device into being a character.

It'll probably increase you score by at least a point.

 

[Ahasverus]

Worth picking up the BR?

The TC was like a 6.5/10 for me, very flawed but with flashes of greatness.

Going for the guide, absolutely.