Disagree. Unless there is some evidence that her illness is terminal then it's not the same thing at all.
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Belgian woman, 24, granted right to die by euthanasia over suicidal thoughts
- Thread starter neojubei
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Disagree. Unless there is some evidence that her illness is terminal then it's not the same thing at all.
Assisted suicide is for terminal illnesses, period. Any medical professional that would categorizes depression or suicidal thoughts as terminal needs they fucking license taken away. Sorry if my post seems extreme but my god is this a dangerous precedent to be set. I mean I live in the only state to support legal assisted suicide and I'd for sure vote for it again but this is not the right way.
Yeah, I can't get behind this.
I'm also thinking about those case studies I read where patients had some sort of mental disorder, due to overactivity of some part of their brain, and were implanted with a device to control that and they came out great and all i can think about is if this girl had done something like that she could have been happy.
I just don't know how much you can trust a mentally ill person to know what's best for themselves.
I'm also thinking about those case studies I read where patients had some sort of mental disorder, due to overactivity of some part of their brain, and were implanted with a device to control that and they came out great and all i can think about is if this girl had done something like that she could have been happy.
I just don't know how much you can trust a mentally ill person to know what's best for themselves.
No I don't agree at all.
Even though both are real and can induce suffering, people with terminal illness can make a euthanasia decision with sound mind. Those with mental illness can't.
As someone with mental illness, it honestly scares me to have some of my crazy thoughts taken seriously. And when they (rarely) are validated, it makes me feel much worse since it brings false justification to all the other bad thoughts. On very very very very specific matters, my mind can't be trusted.
Opus Angelorum
Member
My niece is 18 and over this year alone has tried to kill herself 10+ times.
She suffers from severe depression and generally hates life unless she is drunk.
She has been in and out of care centers for the past 10 years, and a lot of time and resources has been spent.
She is a constant worry to her family, has almost pushed them apart at times...and has no ambition or desire to 'get better'
What else can be done?
Actually it would be a hard argument that a person suffering from clinical depression and suicidal thoughts is "sane."
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
You could use that to invalidate any opinion that a person has about their own mental health in entirety.
And when they're exhausted?
That's a horrible situation but her brain is years away from being fully developed. Do you really want the rest of her life taken away while there's a chance for her to live a long, fulfilled life?
ultraspank
Member
You're not sane of mind when you're depressed/ have a death wish.
You're seeing the world through a distorted prism.
When that opinion is literally a direct symptom of said illness then yeah, it's invalid.
As long as a person lives there is a chance for major improvement for almost all mental illnesses. It's not unheard of for people to live 25-30 years with horrible mental illnesses and still recover and even find themselves happy despite the decades of suffering.
The proper medication and support. 18 years is waaaaaaaaaay too young to be be making those kinds of decisions. Not to mention your body/mind is going through a lot of changes as well. If she is 30 and still no progress has been made then you should look to other options and even then I would still reconsider.
Opus Angelorum
Member
So her family should just ride it out until she wises up?
In Belgium an illness doesn't have to be terminal.
The Belgian conditions for euthanasia:
Translated:
It has to be a continuing, unbearable and hopeless physical or psychological suffering caused by a grave and incurable condition caused by illness or an accident. It does not have to be terminal.
The request for euthanasia has to be voluntary, well considered and repeatedly without any outside pressure, and follow a strict procedure.
There are different procedures - the easiest one when it's a terminal condition.
In this particular case three doctors had to confirm that the condition of the patient is incurable and approve with the euthanasia. She also had to file her dead wish several times. The whole procedure took about 1.5 years.
alexandros
Banned
Yes of course. By definition us mental illness peeps have fucked up brains. Why would we solely trust them, they are broken. I sure as hell don't trust mine in these cases.
Not to say we can't have opinions and thoughts, but they really also need to be filtered through professionals. It's also why we can't or shouldn't self diagnose
Well is this about her or her family?
Either way, whilst you're being reductive the answer is... yes?
Ingueferroque
Banned
Man, your posts bother me.
IISANDERII
Member
A few moments of happiness can't balance out 25-30yrs of mostly agony and suffering. Why would you ask a person to endure that?
It's not like this and you know it. In Belgium euthanasia is progressive, true. You can get it for lots of reasons, but the law is pretty strict and you have to fit lots of requirements to be approved too. You have to prove your suffering is unbearable. Your situation must be irriversible, meaning all medical options should be depleted. etc. The doctor has to follow a strict set of rules to, including seeking counsel from a collegue. The doctor can also be proscecuted if one of the requierments was not met, so it is not like they just approve euthanasia on a whim.
I'm sure that in this girls situation the decision for euthanasia was thoughtfull and the research beforehand was thorough. I also believe it is a lot better that she passes away by euthanasia, surrounded by family and with medical attantion, then perform suicide (which she probably would have in the long term)
You might not like the idea of it, and that is your right, but at the least inform yourself before you go spouting blames.
Josh with a J
Member
Since I don't know her and it's her life, go for it
I don't think I could say the same thing if it was a friend so idk what to think
I don't think I could say the same thing if it was a friend so idk what to think
Seems like reasonable care was taken to ensure that the request was meritable.
The end goal here is to ensure a respect for life - by doing what is necessary to reduce suffering and balance it with the respect for autonomy and freedom.
A society that is congruent and consistent on those basis will reach this conclusion in this case - if her depression is incurable, and she desires to be released from its suffering, then the respect for life must compel us to grant her her wish.
What is most progressive in this particular case is simply that there's recognition that depression is a serious condition that causes serious suffering to those that bear it - and it's not simply an issue that many people can will themselves out of. And in some cases, even with assistance and drug therapy, the underlying mechanisms causing the issue is so severe that it cannot be remedied with existing treatment methods.
Good grief, I had suicidal toughts since I was nine and even had ideas like getting euthanasia at 24 but my life got around in the last 3 years and now I can't think of suicide anymore at all.
Really bad idea. And it might lead to a society where people who can't work due to depressions might be manipulated into getting euthanasia to lighten the burden on the wellfare state.
Really bad idea. And it might lead to a society where people who can't work due to depressions might be manipulated into getting euthanasia to lighten the burden on the wellfare state.
Exactly my thoughts.
I'm really happy for you, but "I got better so everyone can get better" is not a valid argument. Lots of people don't get better. Some of those kill themselves.
Misterinenja
Member
If your life is constant suffering you should have a right to end it.
superseohyun
Member
is that uncertain "long, fulfilled life" which may or may not come really worthy of all the years of suffering of her and her family? i dont think it is such an easy question to answer.
Because they could live the rest of their lives, which could be another 25-30 years or more with happiness.
We endure things we don't like all the time. It doesn't mean the best thing to do is cave when things get hard.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
A lot of people simply cannot understand someone wanting to end their life. Partially because they don't understand. Thing is, if you're in good health (mentally and physically) yourself, it's difficult to place yourselves in the position of someone who isn't. In a way, it's hard to blame them. They don't want to lose you. They know something is wrong, but will tell you to chin up and to try and think of the good times and cetera. They believe things will become better.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Unless those people are with you everyday, I think it's kinda selfish. Everyone always 'cares' about others, but it's not really fair to be against euthanasia... just because you don't want them to die. At the end of the day, most people (unless they're the SO or live together) giving the "you'll get better" advice part ways and return to their own place. They don't have to deal with the ugly side of the problem.
So that's why it usually takes hands-on experience to be okay with someone wanting to die in a peaceful way. Because it's very difficult to understand just how bad mental issues can be.
A lot of people simply cannot understand someone wanting to end their life. Partially because they don't understand. Thing is, if you're in good health (mentally and physically) yourself, it's difficult to place yourselves in the position of someone who isn't. In a way, it's hard to blame them. They don't want to lose you. They know something is wrong, but will tell you to chin up and to try and think of the good times and cetera. They believe things will become better.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Unless those people are with you everyday, I think it's kinda selfish. Everyone always 'cares' about others, but it's not really fair to be against euthanasia... just because you don't want them to die. At the end of the day, most people (unless they're the SO or live together) giving the "you'll get better" advice part ways and return to their own place. They don't have to deal with the ugly side of the problem.
So that's why it usually takes hands-on experience to be okay with someone wanting to die in a peaceful way. Because it's very difficult to understand just how bad mental issues can be.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Yes?
I'm not sure I understand why everyone is so against this. We should all have the right to die if we want. This is a lot better than jumping off a building or suicide by cop or any other number of ways she could choose to go. People should have the right to do whatever they want with their own body, even if it means choosing to die. Why force people to live who don't want to?
maquiladora
Member
It's not like its a 5 minute sudden decision. She has been suffering all her life and she has been in an institution for the past 3 years.
Those that have granted her this right know more about her case than we do. If they have approved it then it's with good reason.
Those that have granted her this right know more about her case than we do. If they have approved it then it's with good reason.
Like with physical illness, there should be a vetting process in place to distinguish between treatable and terminal illness. To support euthanasia for physical disease and deny it for mental disease is a hateful double standard. This girl is going through a doctor-assisted process of euthanasia. She has clearly sought help, and this is clearly not the first step in he treatment plan.
I prefer to think of the process of recovery as the process of reconciliation. When recovery is not possible, all possible remaining outcomes must be respected.
When a terminal cancer patient seeks euthanasia, he might be depressed. Depression is a mental illness. Would you deny his request because he "can't be trusted to take care of himself"?
Misterinenja
Member
You think this was decided quickly and without any doctors involved?
Ether_Snake
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Why does it matter that it was since childhood? What if she was 40 years old and felt this way for the past 24 years?
It's stupid.
superseohyun
Member
why? i mean, maybe for you personally. How about them? Is there a possibility that they may feel different from you?
nrvalleytime
Member
Radical individualism is one of the greatest lies of the modern age. You are part of a community, and your actions affect others.
There's no way around that, which makes any issue involving life and death something we need to discuss.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Your brain is far from "barely developed" at 24.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yep, her life and her choice.
I didn't say that at all? I was curious how it worked.
A patient I had this past weekend was refusing chemotherapy, however due to her various mental illnesses she was determined to not have decision-making capacity and thus her husband had to sign her consents. (She did end up agreeing to the treatment in the end, but her husband still signed.)
You misread. I said it's only barely stopped developing.
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