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[DeathoftheEndless]

Well no, that's ridiculous. They are in the legal boundaries of the law.

Alright, alright. My initial reaction was too extreme and poorly thought out. But I would never support this idea because I think with proper chemical and therapy help, depression can be dealt with.

 

[Akronis]

People against this should mind their own business.

Considering I've been in a situation where I've wanted to kill myself, I'm very glad to have had people actually help me get better instead of throwing it all away.

 

[dubq]

Oh my God, there has to be a better solution than this.

Why? Maybe this is her better solution. Some people don't want to spend their life fighting to get better, who are we to judge or push our "better solution" on to them? If this is what she wants and it's harming no one else, I don't see the issue. The level of moral outrage in this thread is reminding me of some kind of pro-life rally.

Depression is a sick beast. It's been at my side my entire life, and while this isn't my solution for me personally, I feel no need to judge this person or the people granting her this option.

 

[Beefy]

Im not saying she hasn't tried or worked on anything, I'm sure they tried standard tests and methods for depression (whatever those may be), but I don't know if it's wise to assume those standard methods are the best or most practical for treating her.

What if she had these thoughts since (that's say) 12. She has had every kind of therapy and has gone through other tests and been in drugs as well. So for half her life she has had these feelings and nothing has worked. What would you suggest then?

 

[Timeaisis]

We can only offer our help. If this is what she wants, it's what she wants. It's her decision.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Alright, alright. My initial reaction was too extreme and poorly thought out. But I would never support this idea because I think with proper chemical and therapy help, depression can be dealt with.

Then you've never around people who are so severely mentally ill that taking enough medication to deal with it turns them into drooling masses who can't even perform basic functions like eating or drinking and routinely wet and soil themselves.

 

[213372bu]

Woah.

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

I've been lurking since the mid-early 2000's and even though shit was a lot less "PC" I'd never thought I'd see that shit.

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

 

[Beefy]

Considering I've been in a situation where I've wanted to kill myself, I'm very glad to have had people actually help me get better instead of throwing it all away.

You were the lucky one as you got over your illness, some people have it far worse then others.

 

[Haly]

That comes down to the law itself and these laws aren't universal, much like how the age of consent of for children is not universal. it would require to research Belgium's laws regarding this to determine if it's one way or the other.

Well yes, but Belgium has actual laws permitting this course of action. That's why this is news in the first place.

The article is not about whether or not she should be granted this right (by her country's law, she is), but whether the law itself is justified in the first place. Most societies aren't ready/aren't willing to consider legislation for medically approved voluntary euthanasia, and that's why this is newsworthy.

 

[Octavianus]

This is just a permanent solution to a temporary problem

How the fuck do you know? Many people have suicidal thoughts throughout their entire lives.
Seriously, I cinge whenever I see someone repeat this bumper sticker answer. It's right up there with "shucks dude it'll get better".

 

[terrisus]

Woah.

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

No.

I've been lurking since the mid-early 2000's and even though shit was a lot less "PC" I'd never thought I'd see that shit.

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

And you need to "grow up" to where you realize that people can make their own decisions about things, and that it's not your place to tell them that their decisions are "shit."


This isn't someone missing a couple of bills or having someone break up with them, and pulling out a gun.
This is a medical decision being made with doctors.

 

[HammerOfThor]

I'm all for euthanasia when someone is terminally ill, but in this situation it seems so...not right...

 

[dubq]

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

"You all." How's the weather up there? Maybe you should not generalize every person who has no issue with this as being on this train you speak of, because I certainly don't recall saying anything of the sort.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Why? Maybe this is her better solution. Some people don't want to get better, who are we to judge or push our "better solution" on to them? If this is what she wants and it's harming no one else, I don't see the issue. The level of moral outrage in this thread is reminding me of some kind of pro-life rally.

The thing is, this isn't something you can take back. Like many said, maybe she's depressed for for some part of her life, but then turns out better later on? Like, I struggled with Depression in my teenage years, and I still struggle with it from time to time. If I was in a pit during one of those episodes and decided to off myself-And I had the ability to do so legally-that'd be fucked because I don't really want to be dead.

Like I can understand if she had a crippling disease or something like that. But it's not something she can really take back. This isn't cool. I've had suicidal thoughts, and it would be a huge regret if I decided to take my life because things got bad momentarily.

Like, I doubt the woman never smiled or laughed. She must've had some good times. I doubt that she was in constant turmoil(Especially since medical professionals didn't say she had a mental illness).

 

[poodpick]

Alright, alright. My initial reaction was too extreme and poorly thought out. But I would never support this idea because I think with proper chemical and therapy help, depression can be dealt with.

For some people only ECT (shock therapy where they attach electrodes to your head) works and its only a temporary solution with horrible side effects. These people need to be hospitalized for the rest of their lives living with the mental anguish of depression combined with the horrible side effects of treatment.

And on the topic of side effects even if you're only on SSRIs and therapy you may have to be on them life long and side effects range from slightly annoying to life altering.

 

[HK-47]

Well yes, but Belgium has actual laws permitting this course of action. That's why this is news in the first place.

The article is not about whether or not she should be granted this right (by her country's law, she is), but whether the law itself is justified in the first place. Most societies aren't ready/aren't willing to consider legislation for medically approved voluntary euthanasia, and that's why this is newsworthy.

Well its really newsworthy because of the illness she is getting euthanaized for. If this was about Alzheimer's or terminal cancer we probably wouldnt even have a topic.

 

[Akronis]

You were the lucky one as you got over your illness, some people have it far worse then others.

I'm not saying my situation was the same.

 

[terrisus]

Well yes, but Belgium has actual laws permitting this course of action. That's why this is news in the first place.

The article is not about whether or not she should be granted this right (by her country's law, she is), but whether the law itself is justified in the first place. Most societies aren't ready/aren't willing to consider legislation for medically approved voluntary euthanasia, and that's why this is newsworthy.

I should move to Belgium.

Seriously, the United States is frightening with their feelings that they can over-ride people's personal decisions on things like this.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I'm not saying my situation was the same. I'm coming from the angle that this sets a dangerous precedent for people that may forego treatment and jump immediately to this as a solution...

A 1.5 year process =/= immediately.

 

[TatteredHat]

I'll trust that the doctor's decision wasn't done without proper consideration for alternatives.

 

[Zaptruder]

Woah.

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

I've been lurking since the mid-early 2000's and even though shit was a lot less "PC" I'd never thought I'd see that shit.

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

The person that needs to be informed is yourself.

Let us be sure here. Where assistance and other solutions are available to help her deal with her suffering, we should absolutely take them.

If all other avenues are exhausted, and the only option left is to live with constant pain and suffering, or to die - then we should be respectful enough towards life and those alive to honour their request. It is something that should be taken with significant gravity, and only on the condition that all other options are exhausted.

Because the alternative is merely an imposition of our will on others due to some emotional bias towards 'not suicide'.

Ironically, such a lack of sensitivity in society leads to greater depression in the first place.

 

[E-phonk]

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

You might be surprised, but about 1500 people go through this every year in belgium. We have legalized euthanasia since 2002.

I think people would get even more mad if they knew that since this year, under certain conditions, even children can get euthanasia.

Belgium has the world’s most liberal law on physician-assisted suicide, which is not just for the terminally ill. Patients with psychiatric conditions – and now, even children – can request euthanasia. Surveys in Belgium show overwhelming public support, and many doctors say it gives patients with constant and unbearable suffering a practical and humane way to die peacefully

 

[The Albatross]

People against this should mind their own business.

Fair enough. Where does the money come from for state assisted suicide?

 

[Ayt]

I'm not saying my situation was the same. I'm coming from the angle that this sets a dangerous precedent for people that may forego treatment and jump immediately to this as a solution...

What is immediate about this? This has been a very drawn out process for her to get to the point where they will agree to go through with it.

 

[Hoo-doo]

If simply keeping on living is causing this girl tremendous mental anguish that can't be remedied in any way, then I say, it's her body and her choice to make. I support the decision.

Better to peacefully fall asleep and never wake up than to invariably having her resort to throwing herself off a building or in front of a passing train.
It's been 12 years. Curation isn't happening and she desperately wishes to be freed of this misery. Let her go in peace.

Keeping her alive against her will while she's going through hell is, in my eyes, far more heinous than simply giving her the option of a peaceful and painless end.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Considering I've been in a situation where I've wanted to kill myself, I'm very glad to have had people actually help me get better instead of throwing it all away.

Unfortunately, not everyone is as lucky. Be it lack of social/emotional support, improper medical care availability for financial, cultural or legal reasons, or simply having one of the many forms of metal illness that has no answer yet. I'm glad to hear things have gone better for you, but that is not going to be the case for everyone for a very long time.

In her case, it's already been highlighted that she had to undergo treatments until it appeared there was no other choice. The process for getting the euthanasia approved to begin with took a year and a half.

Woah.

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

I've been lurking since the mid-early 2000's and even though shit was a lot less "PC" I'd never thought I'd see that shit.

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

As the general public becomes more enlightened to the depths we haven't plunged yet on mental illness research and a greater understanding of the struggles we depressed people go through on a day-to-day basis, attitudes change. Who knew?

 

[terrisus]

Fair enough. Where does the money come from for state assisted suicide?

Mental Health budget?

 

[Night Hunter]

I read the article now, I still don't get why she doesn't just kill herself? Or is she still in the psychiatric institution that was mentioned?

 

[ThankYouDaletech]

The thing is, this isn't something you can take back. Like many said, maybe she's depressed for for some part of her life, but then turns out better later on? Like, I struggled with Depression in my teenage years, and I still struggle with it from time to time. If I was in a pit during one of those episodes and decided to off myself-And I had the ability to do so legally-that'd be fucked because I don't really want to be dead.

Like I can understand if she had a crippling disease or something like that. But it's not something she can really take back. This isn't cool. I've had suicidal thoughts, and it would be a huge regret if I decided to take my life because things got bad momentarily.

Like, I doubt the woman never smiled or laughed. She must've had some good times. I doubt that she was in constant turmoil(Especially since medical professionals didn't say she had a mental illness).

Think about living your entire life hoping it could improve, only to make it to make it to the end and discover you should have killed yourself decades ago.

Plus, medical treatment does nothing for any external circumstances that may be causing the depression. Those circumstances alone, whatever they may be, may be enough to make life not worth living. Mental illness just adds to that.

 

[Skellig Gra]

People against this should mind their own business.

If she wants to kill herself on her own accord that's obviously her choice but bringing other people in to it is where I draw the line.

 

[terrisus]

A 1.5 year process =/= immediately.

I'll trust that the doctor's decision wasn't done without proper consideration for alternatives.

And, yeah, some people are clearly missing/ignoring details of this to draw up their own absurd situations.

 

[The Albatross]

Mental Health budget?

Right, so if people "mind their own business" where does the money come from? Unless "mind your own business" means "continue writing checks but don't you dare have an opinion about it. Money is welcome, opinions aren't."

 

[Irminsul]

Like, I struggled with Depression in my teenage years, and I still struggle with it from time to time. If I was in a pit during one of those episodes and decided to off myself-And I had the ability to do so legally-that'd be fucked because I don't really want to be dead.

But that isn't what happened in this case.

Like, I doubt the woman never smiled or laughed. She must've had some good times. I doubt that she was in constant turmoil(Especially since medical professionals didn't say she had a mental illness).

You can do that and still be depressed. I mean, you probably know that because you were depressed yourself. But if the overall situation doesn't improve nearly all your life, I think it's best to take the only option left.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

Woah.

Is this a GAF first where posters are openly supporting the woman's suicide?

I've been lurking since the mid-early 2000's and even though shit was a lot less "PC" I'd never thought I'd see that shit.

You all need to get off this suicidal people "have no hope" and "are a burden on living people" train. Seriously, grow up.

Some people do actually take consideration of the suffering and wishes of others, yes.

Under the strict condition that every possible option for treatment has been exhausted, I can't be against this.

 

[dubq]

This isn't cool. I've had suicidal thoughts, and it would be a huge regret if I decided to take my life because things got bad momentarily.
...
Like, I doubt the woman never smiled or laughed. She must've had some good times. I doubt that she was in constant turmoil(Especially since medical professionals didn't say she had a mental illness).

Do you have a crystal ball? You don't know anything about her past/present/future.

Also, how can it be something someone could possibly regret - once it's done, it's done.

Finally..

This isn't cool.

Again, you're judging her based on your own moral standards. When I see reasoning like this, all I hear is people saying things like, "what if that baby grew up to be President" when talking about abortions.

 

[terrisus]

If she wants to kill herself on her own accord that's obviously her choice but bringing other people in to it is where I draw the line.

It's impossible to kill yourself and not draw other people into it.
There would be a criminal investigation regardless.

Right, so if people "mind their own business" where does the money come from? Unless "mind your own business" means "continue writing checks but don't you dare have an opinion about it. Money is welcome, opinions aren't."

Is the amount of money spent on that less than the cost associated with if she used a gun or overdosed on medication?
If it's less, then those "not minding their own business" due to financial concerns should be assuaged.

 

[Burgess_101]

It's a tricky issue and I can see and understand both sides of the argument but from what I have read it seems like it was a long thought out process and not something they just decided to do all of a sudden, therefore I don't really have any qualms.

I think that depressed people should have the option of euthanasia but only with a long period of consultation and trying different methods to fix the problem.

I do feel though that with such an 'easily' available option of suicide it may have an adverse affect on people trying to get better.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I read the article now, I still don't get why she doesn't just kill herself?

Sounds like she has more compassion for others and doesn't want to risk traumatizing anyone (by seeing her commit the act or finding her afterwards). Also I assume there is generally a greater sense of dignity when you are given permission and assistance opposed to having to do the deed yourself.

 

[ThankYouDaletech]

I should move to Belgium.

Seriously, the United States is frightening with their feelings that they can over-ride people's personal decisions on things like this.

Over here, people with mental illnesses are cash cows for the medical industrial complex. Every suicide equals money lost.

 

[Skellig Gra]

It's impossible to kill yourself and not draw other people into it.
They would be a criminal investigation regardless.

Poor choice of words I suppose. I meant getting other people to do it for you.

 

[StayDead]

If she wants to kill herself on her own accord that's obviously her choice but bringing other people in to it is where I draw the line.

By killing yourself you're automatically bringing other people in it.

Would it not be better to bring in trained medical proffesionals to allow you to die in peace rather than jumping infront of a train and giving the driver depression for something he couldn't avoid doing? My Uncle has known train drivers who hit people jumping infront of their trains and they often end up suffering severe depression or PTSD themselves which leaves them unable to ever step foot behind the controls of a train again.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

People against this should mind their own business.

should? Something you base that on when it comes to these situations?

 

[213372bu]

"You all." How's the weather up there? Maybe you should not generalize every person who has no issue with this as being on this train you speak of, because I certainly don't recall saying anything of the sort.

As someone who knew someone who was suicidal, it hurts a lot when I see threads like this. In my old school someone finally killed themselves because their echo chamber said that it was the right thing to do since nobody cared about them. Sad is it not? We need to acknowledge better ways of dealing with this situation than a legal grant of having someone's precious life being taken away.

No.




And you need to "grow up" to where you realize that people can make their own decisions about things.


This isn't someone missing a couple of bills or having someone break up with them, and pulling out a gun.
This is a medical decision being made with doctors.

The decision was made and initiated by the woman being clouded by thoughts of depression. Of course she is going to go along with it. She doesn't have the right state of mind and obviously isn't in the mental state to make that decision. It's our job as human beings to find ways to make these people feel better, not just give up on them. Living =/= suffering and death =/= solution.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Right, so if people "mind their own business" where does the money come from? Unless "mind your own business" means "continue writing checks but don't you dare have an opinion about it. Money is welcome, opinions aren't."

Leave the country if you don't like the laws and how the government is spending your taxes?

 

[Kitsunebaby]

I believe a person's body should be theirs to do with as they please. It's clear that this decision wasn't made hastily, so I fully support her desire to end her suffering. I hope she finds peace, and my thoughts go out to those who will lose her.

 

[TatteredHat]

Right, so if people "mind their own business" where does the money come from? Unless "mind your own business" means "continue writing checks but don't you dare have an opinion about it. Money is welcome, opinions aren't."

Consider the overwhelming support for euthenasia in Belgium. this is happening because people want it to happen.

 

[Future]

If you aren't suffering the same as she, then it's impossible to know her plight. Even if you have depression. It affects everyone differently

She was in an institution for 3 years. At what point is lifelong suffering worse than death?

 

[dubq]

Poor choice of words I suppose. I meant getting other people to do it for you.

You mean, those people whose job it is and who have chosen this career path?

 

[Haly]

There was a time when "voluntary euthanasia" meant something very different, when "mental illness" meant something different. It was a different era, with a different set of standards, a different level of medical sophistication and, hell, even a different approach to civil rights.

As a society, we're not in that time anymore. This is a new age of medicine and medical ethics, it doesn't really make sense to cling onto all the baggage from the past.

 

[The Albatross]

Again, you're judging her based on your own moral standards. When I see reasoning like this, all I hear is people saying things like, "what if that baby grew up to be President" when talking about abortions.

I think people are probably judging the state, not the person with a mental illness. But, aside from that, yes, people apply their own moral standards when talking about something that government endorses, that's one of the prime reasons that "government" exists: collective moral standards.

That's interesting that "all you hear" is a strange strawman against abortion when talking about something that is completely different.

Leave the country if you don't like the laws and how the government is spending your taxes?

This is a close-minded perspective. For instance, if you're against, say, creationist public school curriculum receiving state funding, you should just pack your bags and move instead of voicing criticism against it?

For what it's worth, I don't care either way because I don't live in Belgium, but I think it's asinine to say "you shouldn't have an opinion on this it's none of your business," for something that is state-sponsored.