Support NeoGAF

[The Smoking Bun]

No save the world nonsense, you are terrible at that. Keep the stakes low and the story personal.
Take a cue from GTA, Micheal, Franklin and Trevor just get rich, they don't stop Bin Laden.

ROMANCE? VERY, VERY IMPORTANT! How about adding love spells and potions?

 

[Serra]

I can't even remember my DA2 party (never did finish it though...)

I know the internet loves to love Obsidian but let's not pretend Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege 3, New Vegas etc. have great gameplay.

They have some of the best writers in the business. Something bioware seems to lack lately, badly.

 

[Senor Kami]

If you're going to go and try to make it more of an action game, dear god study some action games. You can't throw in what would be the worst action combat ever in a pure action title and try to pat yourself on the back for your accomplishment.

Kingdoms of Amalur has combat that would be mediocre in an action game, but it's LIGHT YEARS beyond and other action-rpg other than Mass Effect 2/3 for blending rpg with another genre and not being god awful at the other genre.

Go hard or go home. If you're just going to add sucky combat then go back to DAO. Good tactical > bad action. Really, for everything in life, good > bad.

 

[Data West]

My favorite thing about having Sten in your party in DA:O was that you could have him threaten people FOR you

 

[DocSeuss]

Okay

Shale is pretty fun. Not necessarily good, but fun.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

SERIOUSLY, HERE IS EXACTLY HOW BIOWARE WRITER RESPONDED [VIA MESSAGE BOARD AT THAT]: “So I’m supposed to believe someone is smart enough to do a big Excel spreadsheet with color coding and stuff but not smart enough to know about Campbellian archetypes? Yeah, guys, every BioWare game has the same plot! See, things are kind of normal, and then things change and you have to go out and do stuff, and you go to crazy weird places! Aaaaaand so yeah, totally the same story. That’s asinine.”

HULK WOULD SIMPLY REPLY: “YES. HULK TOO IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS BOOK YOU SPEAK OF. THAT’S BECAUSE WE ALL READ IT IN, LIKE, 9TH GRADE. AND THAT’S REALLY NOT WHAT THE BOOK IS SAYING, BUT THANKS FOR PLAYING!” AND THANKFULLY A LOT OF WRITERS MADE IT 10TH GRADE WHERE THEY READ SHAKESPEARE OR T.S. ELLIOT OR SOMETHING AND THE WORLD OF NUANCE OPENED UP.

HULK MEAN, THAT IS SERIOUSLY WHAT THE WRITER THINKS THAT CHART IS SAYING?

OK, this writing style makes me laugh, along with the mental image of him squatted over a keyboard hunting and pecking away gingerly.

Anyways, those spin efforts are not for those who did that in HS and realize it doesn't wash, but for those who didn't and/or don't. Otherwise, it would be bad spin.

I learned that from Blizzard Blues during Wrath about this very same topic. Along with other things...

If you're going to go and try to make it more of an action game, dear god study some action games. You can't throw in what would be the worst action combat ever in a pure action title and try to pat yourself on the back for your accomplishment.

Kingdoms of Amalur has combat that would be mediocre in an action game, but it's LIGHT YEARS beyond and other action-rpg other than Mass Effect 2/3 for blending rpg with another genre and not being god awful at the other genre.

Go hard or go home. If you're just going to add sucky combat then go back to DAO. Good tactical > bad action. Really, for everything in life, good > bad.

You skipped my first post.

 

[FireVoa]

Model it after DA1 conceptually/thematically and gameplay that retains the ease of DA2. Basically if you take the world they built in 1 and add the combat of 2 I would be a very happy camper.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Bioware's constant groveling with this title is embarrassing.

Here, let me make it simple:
-License D&D rules, use the rules, don't worry about ensuring the game fits the D&D world.
-Fire your shitty writers who obsess over fanfic-quality garbage, hire writers who can write good stories and characters.
-Don't break the bank on graphics; a good art style with an isometric view and you're gravy.
-Write out a check to PairOfFilthySocks

 

[Almighty]

Bioware's constant groveling with this title is embarrassing.

Here, let me make it simple:
-License D&D rules, use the rules, don't worry about ensuring the game fits the D&D world.
-Fire your shitty writers who obsess over fanfic-quality garbage, hire writers who can write good stories and characters.
-Don't break the bank on graphics; a good art style with an isometric view and you're gravy.
-Write out a check to PairOfFilthySocks

I would also like to add avoid listening to the suggestions on Bioware's fourms. I am pretty sure that place is what lead them astray in many areas in the first place.

 

[mjswooosh]

Drop the sex stuff. I know there's a contingent of their audience that's way into this stuff, but it's just so lame.

Prudes aren't allowed on GAF. Membership revoked! ~

PS Some of us like the sex stuff. It's the only reason my girlfriend even got into the game with me initially. lol

 

[mjswooosh]

They don't need to drop sex, they just need to not be so crass as to build entire relationship arcs that abruptly end after the characters have sex.

That's why their Witcher comments rubbed me the wrong way. Is Geralt slightly pulpy male wish fulfilment incarnate? Sure. Does he sleep around? Absolutely. But his relationships do not culminate in getting it on once.

+1 A smart post about sex in videogames. I didn't know this was possible.

 

[Dennis]

We all know romances will be a substantial part of the game.

Bioware knows where their bread is buttered.

 

[Xater]

Man when they asked who in my party of the first game was I still remembered that. When it came to DA2 I wondered if these characters were even in the game.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

We all know romances will be a substantial part of the game.

Bioware knows where their bread is buttered.

But is that really the case? I mean, outside of "I think (s)he's the one" oddballs on the Bioware forums, who gives a damn about the (godawfully written) romances?

 

[BlazingRain]

Crazy how negative this thread is.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You mean streamlined, casualized, easy-mode?

No thanks.

Yeah, like, Dark Souls.

 

[Toxi]

PS Some of us like the sex stuff. It's the only reason my girlfriend even got into the game with me initially. lol

Romance isn't the problem, it's the silly forced romances activated by dialogue trees and gifts that are the problem. I honestly wouldn't mind a Bioware RPG that lets you have a well-written relationship, but make it a real relationship that lasts through the game instead of just being a side quest where the reward is a sex cutscene.

...Actually, fuck that, just don't do it. I have zero confidence in Bioware at this point.

But is that really the case? I mean, outside of "I think (s)he's the one" oddballs on the Bioware forums, who gives a damn about the (godawfully written) romances?

I know at least one person in real life who cares. He's the sort of guy who got upset because Talli was a lazy photoshop job.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the visual novel-style Bioware fans, I just think it's absurd how much Bioware panders to them.

 

[Heshinsi]

Bring back the ability to have two weapon stances, and be able to switch between them using a single button press during combat. Don't know why it was removed in the sequel, but I loved switching between ranged and melee stances on the fly.

Oh and, full party customisations. Both Mass Effect and Dragon Age were seriously dumbed down in this area. No one asked you to dumb down our experiences Bioware. Dragon Age: Origins is the best selling Bioware game, and its sequel sold like poop...I wonder why.

 

[Ryan Gosling]

Love to loot in Dragons Dogma.. Love itt! So many items, yummm.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Importance of intimate relationships and romance you ask?

"Not important"

I don't particularly care whether or not they wind up bedding each other, but the interplay between characters in my party in Origins was extremely memorable. It wouldn't have been the same game without it! Sadly, the survey doesn't really have a category for that interaction.

 

[fader]

Just finished it. Very thorough questions.

well i'll definitely give them an "A" for trying very hard.

 

[mjswooosh]

Romance isn't the problem, it's the silly forced romances activated by dialogue trees and gifts that are the problem. I honestly wouldn't mind a Bioware RPG that lets you have a well-written relationship, but make it a real relationship that lasts through the game instead of just being a side quest where the reward is a sex cutscene.

...Actually, fuck that, just don't do it. I have zero confidence in Bioware at this point.

You're asking a lot from writers with the emotional maturity of teenagers producing a game with a target demo of mostly teenage boys.

Seriously though I feel ya...I'd prefer a mature, romantic, sexual plot-line as well. But I think that would require writers who have actually had those experiences themselves. lol Still, I'd prefer a nod to sex/romance rather than none at all. I've always felt that the idea of role-playing games to simulate a "life" in an alternate universe (whether it be past/present/future) are always missing something by making gold/cash/credits the primary motivator for our characters. In real life, sex (with or without romance), marriage, family, legacy, etc...is at least as big a motivator for most human beings as money/job/resource acquisition (not counting the sociopathic banksters suffering from hoarding syndrome who brought down the world economy...but that's another discussion ). At any rate, I think RPGs which at least *attempt* to show this is a partial motivator are good which is why I dig these tid-bits in the Witcher, DA, Mass Effect, etc.... Yeah, it's cool to upgrade my character and get a new sword/laser blaster, but sometimes my alter-ego man (or woman) might just want to get a piece of ass...or find true love and get married. lol

 

[BeesEight]

Are there really that many people out there that truly believe that combat in most WRPGs is good? I thought it was pretty universally accepted that WRPG combat is usually just passable at best and is just something you put up with to enjoy other aspects of the game.

Modded BG2 combat I found to be incredibly engaging. Sure, it broke down into "whack-a-mage" tactic wise but with improved spells and AI, you actually had a reason to pause and consider the action of every member of your squad. The dominance of magic, however, is purely a D&D holdover so with some proper design you could make a system that has deep and deadly tactics that doesn't make one class leagues better than the others. And elements like positional backstabbing encourage positioning beyond "put warriors in front of mages."

I just want them to pick a side. I have no real issue with either style of combat system but DA2's hybrid system was just plain bad. They just need to choose whether they want to make a tactical or action RPG and focus on balancing the game's mechanics around that.

This is one of the reasons I avoided DA2. If we're going to have a party based system then I want a heavy tactical, party based combat. Running around with party members but forcing combat into a pseudo-action design just seems like a disaster to me. I'd like to see a refinement of the Baldur's Gate combat but if we must have action combat than ditch the party and go with the trending Dark Souls/Witcher/whatever solo gameplay.

Just finished it. Very thorough questions.

well i'll definitely give them an "A" for trying very hard.

I found the questionnaire rather lacking and misleading in a number of sections. I don't know what "epic storyline" means and there isn't an option for plain old "good writing." The question on tone (gritty, dark realism) is meaningless as there aren't any other options on tone for them to parse the answers anyway. I did give "Intimate Relationships" a big fat "unimportant" though.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I'm all about stripping out all of the combat changes made in DA2. I'll not buy the game if it leans more toward the Dragon Age 2 side of things. In fact, I hope they take it all the way back to KOTOR on the original Xbox.

And I couldn't care less about the romantic relationships. If they are totally absent, I won't miss them.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

The best thing they could possibly do is ignore DA2' existance completely
But they won't

 

[gogosox8]

I want to play those type of games, but normally do not because of the menu systems. Mass Effect did an ok job of doing what I am asking Bioware to do, and because of this, my wife and I beat all three games together.

EDIT

The same applies to pure RPGs. What I want and assume would be easy to do is to give the player the option (at the beginning of the game) that would allow the user to just pick up and play through the game without having to grind at all. This would allow non-rpg players the ability to experience the game without any of the hassles associated with rpgs. I think it is money just being left on the table for developers. There has to be many of us who want to experience these type of games but not put in 50 to 80 hours.

Sounds like you don't want an rpg, you want something else which was the problem with DA2. It tried to appeal too much to people who don't like rpgs which made it a subpar experience. You can't make a game that appeals to everyone, so just make a game that appeals to the audience your targeting. Since DA is an rpg, they should put rpg mechanics in the game.

 

[Kadayi]

-License D&D rules, use the rules, don't worry about ensuring the game fits the D&D world.

-Don't break the bank on graphics; a good art style with an isometric view and you're gravy.

No & No.

The whole D&D RPG model is plain risible and tired. People end up obsessing about the mechanistic aspects of stats, levels, magic items and min maxing and narrative engagement becomes secondary. About the best D&D based RPG (Planescape) succeeds because it largely subverts the formula by making the unnamed one unkillable, and therefore the narrative had more weight to it.

As regards isometric, please no. That whole removed tactical aspect in DA:O was dire. Way too many encounters in that game were built around this notion of success through Dark soulsesque trial and error, especially with some of the later big group fights to the extent that you needed to basically lose a few times in order to figure out how to game the system in terms of which AoE spells to cast where and when in order to overcome the placed opposition. Works OK in a game like Dark souls where from a narrative perspective you're effectively in a purgatory, but not so well when you're supposed to be a mortal in a living breathing world with just the one life to lose. Victory through replay is a terrible approach to encounter design. A player should always possess the means to overcome a situation as presented, and if they do fail it should be as a result of their own tactical actions, not due to a lack of options or foresight.

What games as a medium do increasingly well is atmosphere and immersion, and that's achieved best by keeping you as the player in the game space and less in the interface. I want my Role Playing Games, to be Role Playing Games, not poor replicators of P&P RPG mechanics.

 

[Reuenthal]

I want something awesome to happen when I click A.