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[Omnistalgic]

I don’t like ND’s situation as a kinda catalyst for there not being enough diversity in the voice acting world. Heck, there’s not enough black people in the video-game industry period, and that stems from all sorts of social/economical issues. But, I don’t think it’s fair to highlight the ND situation, especially since there’s some white characters played by black actors.

I hope one day everything is all even and righteous, but hey, this is the reality.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I don’t like ND’s situation as a kinda catalyst for there not being enough diversity in the voice acting world. Heck, there’s not enough black people in the video-game industry period, and that stems from all sorts of social/economical issues. But, I don’t think it’s fair to highlight the ND situation, especially since there’s some white characters played by black actors.

I hope one day everything is all even and righteous, but hey, this is the reality.

Why is it not fair? It's the most recent.
Also black actors playing not comparable to white actors playing people of color.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I see this brought up often, but every character with the exception of

Spoiler

three, obviously excluding Joel and Ellie, almost everyone ends up dying in TLoU. The ones that live are Tommy, Maria, and Bill. And they all have one thing in common, they actively avoided going too far with Joel and Ellie. Bill doesn't want to leave his town because he knows it, and he wants Joel and Ellie out of there so he's not distracted. Maria never leaves the compound, and Tommy only goes a brief distance away before returning. So out of a cast of 15, including those that played major or at least named roles, five characters survived.

That's narrative reasonings though. Didn't really matter. Henry and Sam

Spoiler

could have been white and nothing in your above post would change

. Bill

Spoiler

could have also been black

and nothing in your post would be becoming incorrect.

What is interesting, well maybe not really, is really,

Spoiler

none of the black characters survived. The writer could have invented ways to make any one of them survive,

but no, heh.

 

[Dick Jones]

I honestly believe that Druckmann picked the best woman he thought that could bring out the characteristics of Nadine. It was only later that Naughty Dog chose a design that made Nadine black. Is anyone actually disputing this version of events?

Should ND, have after picking their design sack Laura Bailey because although they were satisfied with her voice-over work, she wasn't black enough for the job? What should Naughty Dog have done?

The arguments that it should have been a blind audition is invalid in this situation as Nadine was cast prior to the final design and not the other way around.

I understand that this thread has evolved into a general discussion on the lack of minority voice actors cast in roles but, some comments have ignored the facts in this case and imply that ND are racist. Casting a voice because they are only the same skin colour as the character is wrong, it should always be to pick the voice that best suits the character and will flesh out that character best.

Should I not play Uncharted because I'm not a smartass, athletic American who has incredible upperbody strength?

Oh yeah, and a serial killer. 😉

 

[Reebot]

That's narrative reasonings though. Didn't really matter. Henry and Sam

Spoiler

could have been white and nothing in your above post would change

. Bill

Spoiler

could have also been black

and nothing in your post would be becoming incorrect.

What is interesting, well maybe not really, is really,

Spoiler

none of the black characters survived. The writer could have invented ways to make any one of them survive,

but no, heh.

But as you just noted, the race of each character plays no role whatsoever.

They

Spoiler

all die because almost every named character dies.

There's no malice or ill intent here.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How is that not an issue with an LGBT actor portraying a straight character?

Or is your position just that an LGBT actor poorly portraying a straight character doesn't hurt anyone in your opinion/you can't give a shit?

That, and the fact that an LGBT character is significantly more likely to have their sexuality and/or gender poorly represented than a straight or cis character is.

 

[Laughing Banana]

But as you just noted, the race of each character plays no role whatsoever.

They

Spoiler

all die because almost every named character dies.

There's no malice or ill intent here.

Perhaps, I don't know. Maybe they wrote it that way subconsciously? I don't know. Like I said, they could have made someone like Bill

Spoiler

as black and at least make one of them prominent black dudes survived the whole ordeal

, lol, but they chose, maybe subconsciously, otherwise.

It's just an interesting note that I just realized. That typical hollywood trope is still in full effect, I see, hahah.

 

[Reebot]

Perhaps, I don't know. Maybe they wrote it that way subconsciously? I don't know. Like I said, they could have made someone like Bill

Spoiler

as black and at least make one of them prominent black dudes survived the whole ordeal

, lol, but they chose, maybe subconsciously, otherwise.

It's just an interesting note that I just realized. That typical hollywood trope is still in full effect, I see, hahah.

I think "coincidence" is a far, far more likely explanation.

 

[Apt101]

I wish we did have solid statistics, it would help identify the problem if it's related to hiring practices. Or, at least the extent of it, as we know that the phenomenon of employers overlooking candidates with classically "black names" (or Hispanic, for that matter) exists, and I see no reason to believe that bias doesn't also exist in the entertainment industry (why would they be immune?).

Some people in this thread dislike the idea of quotas, "forced equal representation" as it's been referred to. But in a system with bias sometimes that's one of the most effective ways to overcome it. Another is taking a shot on a person of color for leading roles. I like that they tapped a person of mixed race to headline American Gods - we need more of that. There was no clear indication of Shadow's outward racial appearance in the books (and if there was, it was so brief I missed it), so why not hire someone of color for it? Push for diversity at that level.

In a racially perfect world (for lack of a better phrase) these things would fix themselves, but we live in a country that isn't perfect.

 

[Meaty]

I wish we did have solid statistics, it would help identify the problem if it's related to hiring practices. Or, at least the extent of it, as we know that the phenomenon of employers overlooking candidates with classically "black names" (or Hispanic, for that matter) exists, and I see no reason to believe that bias doesn't also exist in the entertainment industry (why would they be immune?).

Some people in this thread dislike the idea of quotas, "forced equal representation" as it's been referred to. But in a system with bias sometimes that's one of the most effective ways to overcome it. Another is taking a shot on a person of color for leading roles. I like that they tapped a person of mixed race to headline American Gods - we need more of that. There was no clear indication of Shadow's outward racial appearance in the books (and if there was, it was so brief I missed it), so why not hire someone of color for it? Push for diversity at that level.

In a racially perfect world (for lack of a better phrase) these things would fix themselves, but we live in a country that isn't perfect.

I agree with most of what you said, but I think in the case of shadow, he should look

Spoiler

similar to Wednesday, at least in some traits

.

I think that its perfectly fine and awesome if you push to make a character be played by a minority if it haves no impact on the story, I think Laura or any other character should be cast as a minority instead.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Perhaps, I don't know. Maybe they wrote it that way subconsciously? I don't know. Like I said, they could have made someone like Bill

Spoiler

as black and at least make one of them prominent black dudes survived the whole ordeal

, lol, but they chose, maybe subconsciously, otherwise.

It's just an interesting note that I just realized. That typical hollywood trope is still in full effect, I see, hahah.

There's reaching, and then there's accusing Neil Druckmann of subconsciously making sure that every black character in his narrative dies, despite the fact that white characters die too. Including children. Come on dude. I do feel there's a lot of misunderstandings of the whole situation even though we know how the casting happened in the first place. And with the mindset of the director.

 

[Degen]

It's only weird to me when they try to "sound black"

It never, ever, ever sounds believable, ever

Really awkward

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I wish we did have solid statistics, it would help identify the problem if it's related to hiring practices. Or, at least the extent of it, as we know that the phenomenon of employers overlooking candidates with classically "black names" (or Hispanic, for that matter) exists, and I see no reason to believe that bias doesn't also exist in the entertainment industry (why would they be immune?).

Some people in this thread dislike the idea of quotas, "forced equal representation" as it's been referred to. But in a system with bias sometimes that's one of the most effective ways to overcome it. Another is taking a shot on a person of color for leading roles. I like that they tapped a person of mixed race to headline American Gods - we need more of that. There was no clear indication of Shadow's outward racial appearance in the books (and if there was, it was so brief I missed it), so why not hire someone of color for it? Push for diversity at that level.

In a racially perfect world (for lack of a better phrase) these things would fix themselves, but we live in a country that isn't perfect.

In principle I can see the problem but in reality it seems like the best way.

There's reaching, and then there's accusing Neil Druckmann of subconsciously making sure that every black character in his narrative dies, despite the fact that white characters die too. Including children. Come on dude. I do feel there's a lot of misunderstandings of the whole situation even though we know how the casting happened in the first place. And with the mindset of the director.

Sure, it's just unfortunate confidence.

 

[Meaty]

It's only weird to me when they try to "sound black"

It never, ever, ever sounds believable, ever

Really awkward

Thats true for every accent ever tho. When they try to sound russian, german, anything. In any movie, any game. Anything.

 

[Ricky_R]

I see that we're back at square one with this topic and ND.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Sure, it's just unfortunate confidence.

In this specific instance I believe it is given the info about the actors involved, the casting session, the director, the studio etc. Don't get me wrong, there is a systemic issue when it comes to the portrayal of different characters of different descents as well as the casting of leads, i'm in no way denying that this industry, similar to hollywood is resistant to the idea of black actors/characters being leads.

 

[Lime]

It's only weird to me when they try to "sound black"

It never, ever, ever sounds believable, ever

Really awkward

Yeah, one would have thought that Eidos Montreal would've learned from this:

And perhaps improved themselves by getting someone else who isn't some white dude to be the main lead in a narrative about oppression and apartheid (however I recognize that at least their two side-characters helping Scruffy McWhite are non-White in the sequel)

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I see that we're back at square one with this topic and ND.

I guess.
You don't care but continue to post in these threads.

In this specific instance I believe it is given the info about the actors involved, the casting session, the director, the studio etc. Don't get me wrong, there is a systemic issue when it comes to the portrayal of different characters of different descents as well as the casting of leads, i'm in no way denying that this industry, similar to hollywood is resistant to the idea of black actors/characters being leads.

Yes, I agree with that but absolve ND of falling into a unfortunate trope.

 

[mikefrails]

Uncharted 4 is by far the most egregious for this. ND could've shelled out for the woman they based the character's visuals on.

 

[Pandy]

They forgot "and the other way around."

I don't seem to see the mention of the known fact that there's also a black actor playing a relevant white character in the game.

Both cases are entirely fine, of course. Having worked in voice acting for 6 years (including giving input in the distribution of roles), a voice actor should be selected according to his voice, not according to his color, gender (there is a ton of women voicing male teens and pre-teens for instance, especially in animation) or any other factor not related to whether the voice fits the character.

This.

Ever since I learned Bart Simpson was a grown woman (Nancy Cartwright) I've known that it doesn't matter a damn what a voice actor/actress looks like so long as they can play the part.

 

[Mivey]

Isn't this known as "colorblind casting"?

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

You never actually see the Oracle in the games, and Ash looks mixed rather than straight white, so not sure if these are actual victories.

She has full lips, but I don't see the mixed thing. I think it's important to count the victories and still stay persistant in moving forward. But I still think it's just as important to acknowledge when devs are making moves.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I agree it happens, but as per the above, I disagree that everyone is guilty of it. How do we resolve the problem in some areas is the problem. I like the idea of blind casting suggested earlier in this current threads example,

that's the problem with an unconscious bias. People convince themselves that it doesn't affect them, which is in some way why you're having trouble grasping it right now. Rest assured, it affects everybody to some degree. It doesn't make you a bad person, it's just how people are wired.

 

[Fbh]

I obviously agree with getting more diversity in the casting and in the actual charaters in videogames. And if this character ends up opening the discusion for more diversity in voice actors then I guess there is a positive aspect to it.

But I personally don't see an issue with this situation. It's animation, one of the advantages of the format is that anyone can play any character because your physical appearance doesn't matter. You can have grown people palying kids (The Simpsons), black people playing white people (some examples shown in this thread), White people playing black people (like here), women voicing male characters (every shonen anime ever), men playing females (Granny Goodness from Justie Legue), etc.

Now, if there is evidence that Laura Bailey was chosen because of her skin color, then shame one ND and I hope that what they did is known.
But from how the actress herself explains the situation, it seems like they just casted everyone and went with the person they liked the most. And Laura Bailey is great so I can see why they went with her

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I obviously agree with getting more diversity in the casting and in the actual charaters in videogames. And if this character ends up opening the discusion for more diversity in voice actors then I guess there is a positive aspect to it.

But I personally don't see an issue with this situation. It's animation, one of the advantages of the format is that anyone can play any character because your physical appearance doesn't matter. You can have grown people palying kids (The Simpsons), black people playing white people (some examples shown in this thread), White people playing black people (like here), women voicing male characters (every shonen anime ever), men playing females (Granny Goodness from Justie Legue), etc.

Now, if there is evidence that Laura Bailey was chosen because of her skin color, then shame one ND and I hope that what they did is known.
But from how the actress herself explains the situation, it seems like they just casted everyone and went with the person they liked the most. And Laura Bailey is great so I can see why they went with her

The article used this recent "controversy" to talk about the issue in general and also address some of your comments.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Uncharted 4 is by far the most egregious for this. ND could've shelled out for the woman they based the character's visuals on.

Do we know that they based the appearance on an actual woman or is this another coincidence where people genuinely believe they based a character's appearance off of an actress/model? Without taking into account the fact that the characters literally start out as a shit ton of drawings before a final appearance is picked and modelled or the fact that developers are rarely dishonest about doing so, quite the opposite, they usually specifically state that they've done so.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I think on an individual basis, it shouldn't be a big deal. I share Druckmann's mindset there in that what you play should not represent your appearance as this is all fantasy.

However, this assumes there isn't a major representation issue in the field in the first place. If we had many black guys playing white/Asian/Latino/etc guys outside of Phil Lamarr, this very likely wouldn't be a discussion in the first place.

 

[Ricky_R]

I guess.
You don't care but continue to post in these threads.

Not sure where I said I don't care, but if you say so then it must be true.

 

[Pandy]

Yeah, one would have thought that Eidos Montreal would've learned from this:

And perhaps improved themselves by getting someone else who isn't some white dude to be the main lead in a narrative about oppression and apartheid (however I recognize that at least their two side-characters helping Scruffy McWhite are non-White in the sequel)

This is such a tired and selective example in a game which has a level of cast diversity (both on and off screen) that most games don't even get close to.

Also, Letitia's voice actress, Amanda Strawn, happens to be a black woman. Just to keep things right for those not in the know given the nature of the discussion.

 

[mindsale]

That's narrative reasonings though. Didn't really matter. Henry and Sam

Spoiler

could have been white and nothing in your above post would change

. Bill

Spoiler

could have also been black

and nothing in your post would be becoming incorrect.

What is interesting, well maybe not really, is really,

Spoiler

none of the black characters survived. The writer could have invented ways to make any one of them survive,

but no, heh.

The Last of Us sports an incredibly diverse cast.

Spoiler

A woman of color, Marlene, is the antagonist. Bill is gay. Ellie is gay. Ellie's friend and crush is a gay teen girl of color. Yes, all significant characters of color (Marlene, Riley, Henry, Sam) die, but of the ultimate party survivors (Joel, Tommy, Ellie, Bill), half are homosexual.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

I was kind of put off when Gray Fox didn't actually turn out to be black.

To be fair, he was conceptualized in 1987 in Metal Gear for the MSX.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Not sure where I said I don't care, but if you say so then it must be true.

Then why not make a comment that's constructive instead of what you wrote.

This is such a tired and selective example in a game which has a level of cast diversity (both on and off screen) that most games don't even get close to.

Also, Letitia's voice actress, Amanda Strawn, happens to be a black woman. Just to keep things right for those not in the know given the nature of the discussion.

Which makes it even crazier that a racist stereotype stayed in.
Wonder what the voice director asked her...

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Anyone knows examples of Black actors voicing white characters ?

The closest I can think is Kratos ....

Snoop Dogg in King of the Hill probably doesn't count (not a game, but first thing that came to mind)

I wish there was a KotH game

 

[Cynar]

Anyone knows examples of Black actors voicing white characters ?

The closest I can think is Kratos ....

Darth Vader

 

[neurosyphilis]

As a black kid, I don't have a problem with it at all. Especially when it's a very talented and passionate voice actor like Laura Bailey.

 

[neurosyphilis]

At least Naughty Dog are amongst the few that give us really great minority characters. Sam and Henry were really great well did characters, and it will be the same for this character. I wish more developers put strong black characters in their games like Naughty Dog does.

 

[Creaking]

To be fair, he was conceptualized in 1987 in Metal Gear for the MSX.

True true, I forgot about that.

 

[walltowall]

As a black kid, I don't have a problem with it at all. Especially when it's a very talented and passionate voice actor like Laura Bailey.

At least Naughty Dog are amongst the few that give us really great minority characters. Sam and Henry were really great well did characters, and it will be the same for this character. I wish more developers put strong black characters in their games like Naughty Dog does.

I think the question can be asked, how hard did they look?

343i was able to fill the role of Jameson Locke, twice, with talented actors of color.

 

[Kinyou]

Yeah, one would have thought that Eidos Montreal would've learned from this:

And perhaps improved themselves by getting someone else who isn't some white dude to be the main lead in a narrative about oppression and apartheid (however I recognize that at least their two side-characters helping Scruffy McWhite are non-White in the sequel)

That wasn't a white woman trying to sound black. I already posted an interview with the actress and her insights earlier in the thread.

http://gameranx.com/features/id/19666/article/an-interview-with-amanda-strawn/

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

That wasn't a white woman trying to sound black. I already posted an interview with the actress and her insights earlier in the thread.

http://gameranx.com/features/id/19666/article/an-interview-with-amanda-strawn/

Interesting insight to say the least.
Shows how stuff like that gets through and what Eidos Montreal thinks homeless people speak.

 

[TalonJH]

To be honest, I care a lot more about seeing diverse characters in games than I do who voices them.

Kind of off topic: Wow, Kimberly Brooks has really done a lot of great characters in games with very little fame. She needs a leading role.

Daisy Fitzroy
Bioshock Infinite

Batgirl/Barbara Gordon
Various DC Games

Shinobu Jacobs
No More Heroes

Just to name a few.

 

[Night Angel]

Uncharted 4 is by far the most egregious for this. ND could've shelled out for the woman they based the character's visuals on.

Pretty sure this was bullshit, and proven to be so in the last thread.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Uncharted 4 is by far the most egregious for this. ND could've shelled out for the woman they based the character's visuals on.

I think the question can be asked, how hard did they look?

343i was able to fill the role of Jameson Locke, twice, with talented actors of color.

They cast the voice actress first, without knowing what the character would end up looking like. All they knew was that she was South African, the artist then came up with the rendition of Nadine as black and they did not want to change it because they fell in love with that design.

 

[zsynqx]

They cast the voice actress first, without knowing what the character would end up looking like. All they knew was that she was South African, the artist then came up with the rendition of Nadine as black and they did not want to change it because they fell in love with that design.

To be fair, reading the OP is hard work

 

[Lime]

That wasn't a white woman trying to sound black. I already posted an interview with the actress and her insights earlier in the thread.

http://gameranx.com/features/id/19666/article/an-interview-with-amanda-strawn/

That's not the point - the point is that the character was a dumb and unfortunate portrayal of a Black character regardless of the ethnicity or melanin level of the voice actor. While Strawn is entirely justified in doing what she wants, the character that Eidos Montreal wrote and voice directed was eye-rolling as hell (Strawn even comments on the failure of Eidos Montreal by not giving the voice acting sessions sufficient room and time to develop):

http://techland.time.com/2011/08/31/the-worst-thing-about-deus-ex-human-revolution/.

 

[HMD]

I wish someone would go this in-depth for brown characters in gaming, we don't even matter.

 

[Cimarron]

Ashley Williams from Mass Effect.

Truth be told I thought she was a very light skinned sista.

 

[Kinyou]

That's not the point - the point is that the character was a dumb and unfortunate portrayal of a Black character regardless of the ethnicity or melanin level of the voice actor. While Strawn is entirely justified in doing what she wants, the character that Eidos Montreal wrote and voice directed was eye-rolling as hell (Strawn even comments on the failure of Eidos Montreal by not giving the voice acting sessions sufficient room and time to develop):

http://techland.time.com/2011/08/31/the-worst-thing-about-deus-ex-human-revolution/.

I wasn't disagreeing that it was a dumb portrayal, just that it wasn't an example for "someone trying to sound black" which was said in the post you were agreeing with. It's not really related to the topic of this thread.

 

[Ricky_R]

Then why not make a comment that's constructive instead of what you wrote.


Which makes it even crazier that a racist stereotype stayed in.
Wonder what the voice director asked her...

What's wrong with my comment? We're back at square one using ND's situation
needlessly. Also, you still haven't told where did I say that I don't care.

The problem is real. ND has been trying to help overcome it, not worsen it.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

What's wrong with my comment? We're back at square one using ND's situation
needlessly. Also, you still haven't told where did I say that I don't care.

The problem is real. ND has been trying to help overcome it, not worsen it.

It's the most recent example of this issue used to talk about this issue in general and raise awareness of it.
No one is picking on ND or calling them racist for this. And that's why I have a problem with your comment, it focused on starting point instead of bigger picture to protect ND, I guess.