now imagine a world where these games are forbidden. At least on some level forbidden (like, say, it is forbidden by law that a single person can invest more than 100 on a single game per week). Well, they won't be forbidden all in the world. But maybe at least in the EU. And then imagine what kind of games could come then. It would be a much friendlier, much more enjoyable gaming environment on smart devices.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Boy splurges 37,000 euros playing free game
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
- Start date
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Forget Apple...does his mother not check her accounts? Lol
In most jurisdictiond of the United States, I believe contracts like this with minors are revocable until the minor reaches the age of majority and affirms the contract, or fails to disaffirm it within a certain amount of time after reaching the age of majority (6 months possibly, but that's going off memory so I may be off..... and it may vary from state to state).
So, I doubt this would be a problem in the US.
Does anyone know if a similar law is in place in other nations? If not, we shouldn't be blaming the game company. We should be blaming the law makers in my humble opinion.
So, I doubt this would be a problem in the US.
Does anyone know if a similar law is in place in other nations? If not, we shouldn't be blaming the game company. We should be blaming the law makers in my humble opinion.
This is the part I find strange. You'd think the CC would have reached its cap and prevent it from being used a lot earlier.
Credit Card limits exist precisely to prevent shit like this.
Free-to-play can be a disgusting gaming model (and usually is). No one should ever even be able to spend this obscene amount of money on a game. The majority of games cost $1 to $60, and no one should be given the opportunity to spend more than this because of a model that preys on addicts. Too bad, really. Not saying the boy was wrong, but he is obviously an addict and this game preys on their weaknesses without caring. I am sure they sit back and laugh that they are putting their children through University on the weakness of a teenager.
Just dispute the charges and get the money back. The kid didn't have permissions to spend it.
Was it on a credit card or debit card? If debit who has 37k just sitting in their current account and not in investments or savings.
EDIT: Ahhhh overdraft. Fucking hell, who has a 37k overdraft?? Insane.
Was it on a credit card or debit card? If debit who has 37k just sitting in their current account and not in investments or savings.
EDIT: Ahhhh overdraft. Fucking hell, who has a 37k overdraft?? Insane.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Small price for the being the best at Game of War
nikos
Member
Both of them must be to not notice 37k being spent.
I don't get how this is the company's fault.
They made the game, it's out there for "free", you can pay for stuff if you want to. It's the kid's choice. The goal of a company is to make money, should they tell the kid to please stop giving them money? The kid and/or his parents are the only ones to blame here.
You guys might not like the business model, but it's how it works, and no one forces you to pay a dime.
They made the game, it's out there for "free", you can pay for stuff if you want to. It's the kid's choice. The goal of a company is to make money, should they tell the kid to please stop giving them money? The kid and/or his parents are the only ones to blame here.
You guys might not like the business model, but it's how it works, and no one forces you to pay a dime.
I actually played this game a few months ago.
There was a guy in my clan that spent thousands of dollars during my brief time in the game. Thousands. Each time he bought the $100 chest thingy, everyone in the clan got an item. Well, sometimes I would log into the game and see 10 to 15 items waiting for me because of his purchases. It was insane.
There was a guy in my clan that spent thousands of dollars during my brief time in the game. Thousands. Each time he bought the $100 chest thingy, everyone in the clan got an item. Well, sometimes I would log into the game and see 10 to 15 items waiting for me because of his purchases. It was insane.
flatearthpandas
Member
I was wondering that as well. What type of annual income do you need to get a credit card limit like that on a single card?
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
If this keeps happening then publishers can look forward to a lot more regulation, and all the associated costs and delays with maintaining compliance.
I work in the "gaming" industry (gambling), and compliance headaches are part of life, if you want to avoid significant fines.
F2P devs will have deserved it, if you ask me. The design tactics being employed border on unethical. All it's going to take is a shift from concern about coin-out (you can win money) to coin-in (you can lose a bunch of money), and the F2P model will be sitting right next to gambling at the shit-trough of stringent regulation.
I'm looking forward to all the futile faux protestation...
I work in the "gaming" industry (gambling), and compliance headaches are part of life, if you want to avoid significant fines.
F2P devs will have deserved it, if you ask me. The design tactics being employed border on unethical. All it's going to take is a shift from concern about coin-out (you can win money) to coin-in (you can lose a bunch of money), and the F2P model will be sitting right next to gambling at the shit-trough of stringent regulation.
I'm looking forward to all the futile faux protestation...
Same happened to me when someone tried to charge train tickets in the czech republic - never been there - to my credit card.
Best Value!
Seems like a series of goofs from the kid, the mom, the bank and everyone else potentially responsible if no one noticed 37k€ were gone. This is a problem with, but not the fault of F2P games, but any respectable F2P publisher would have better safety in place so stuff like this doesn't happen. So it's definitely shady on part of the developer, unless they're incompetent or careless. All three are possible.
Belgium, man. Do a little research the next time you decide to do a drive-by post.
Belgium, man. Do a little research the next time you decide to do a drive-by post.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
At 15, you're too old to not know what you're doing. Either he's an idiot or he just didn't care
I don't really get how this is much different than a kid addicted to something else being given his parent's credit card and going out to score whatever he is addicted to. Kid knew he was spending money on shit.
Don't ever give a teenager a credit card, especially one with an over $30,000 credit limit.
Don't ever give a teenager a credit card, especially one with an over $30,000 credit limit.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Most real world "whales" aren't rich fucks with too much money and no brain who go "brah I gotta get to muh business meeting, make this quick". Most of them are average people addicted to a game the same way people get addicted to gambling making really poor financial decisions. The entire business is shady and wrong, but especially so when targeted at kids.
I've said in the past there's nothing wrong with being addicted to games. With these kind of games, there absolutely is.
crazygambit
Member
I'm thinking the same reasons why we don't let minors enter casinos should certainly apply here right. The game had actual gambling with real money and there's no restriction barring minors getting addicted to it? Yeah, someone is gonna get in trouble over this.
Yep, this. I mean its basic reading. I'm pretty sure the game even shows you the IAP options like 4.99$--->25k gold or w/e.
Complete dutch article translated:
37.000 euro of parents money wasted with "free" game
More than 37.000 euro. That's the amount a fifteen year old boy from Antwerp wasted in only a few months time without the knowledge of his mother. The National Commission for gambling sounds the alarm: "On the internet everything is allowed - we need more strict laws and policies"
Robin (not his real name) had been playing Game of War - Fire Age for only a few months. This internet game is freely downloadable. Players have to build an army and a city in order to destroy their opponents camp.
"Robin has been playing video games for years, just like his brothers", his mother says. "But he never played for money, we had no reason to be worried."
What his mother didn't know, was Robin got more and more involved in the world of Game of War. He wanted to do everything for it.
"When I was planning to go on vacation, I asked Robin to install some e-books on my tablet, something I don't know how to do myself", says the woman. "To buy these books I have given him the credit card of my father." And Robin added this credit card to his own iTunes account, the download service of Apple. He discovered he could buy virtual gold within the game using a credit card. This virtual gold made him progress to the game significantly faster. "While you are playing tons of advertisements are displayed, there is even an in-game casino that you can play. You only have to click once to make a purchase and real money is being spent, which was exactly what he did again and again, not knowing how much money he was actually spending as nothing shows what the amount is that you already payed."
37.000 euro of parents money wasted with "free" game
More than 37.000 euro. That's the amount a fifteen year old boy from Antwerp wasted in only a few months time without the knowledge of his mother. The National Commission for gambling sounds the alarm: "On the internet everything is allowed - we need more strict laws and policies"
Robin (not his real name) had been playing Game of War - Fire Age for only a few months. This internet game is freely downloadable. Players have to build an army and a city in order to destroy their opponents camp.
"Robin has been playing video games for years, just like his brothers", his mother says. "But he never played for money, we had no reason to be worried."
What his mother didn't know, was Robin got more and more involved in the world of Game of War. He wanted to do everything for it.
"When I was planning to go on vacation, I asked Robin to install some e-books on my tablet, something I don't know how to do myself", says the woman. "To buy these books I have given him the credit card of my father." And Robin added this credit card to his own iTunes account, the download service of Apple. He discovered he could buy virtual gold within the game using a credit card. This virtual gold made him progress to the game significantly faster. "While you are playing tons of advertisements are displayed, there is even an in-game casino that you can play. You only have to click once to make a purchase and real money is being spent, which was exactly what he did again and again, not knowing how much money he was actually spending as nothing shows what the amount is that you already payed."
impetuous_silly
Member
Here's an idea: How about we never begin a thread title with "boy splurges...".
YoYo Switch
Banned
How the fuck does someone like one of these games enough to drop 30k on it
Play a real game my man dam
Play a real game my man dam
This is the problem with free to play, if you can spend 37k on something without anyone noticing, even buying extra gold without knowing you're doing something that is costing you real money, the dev designed to game to rip people off
It's great when you see F2P done right, but as a model its so temping for the dev to creep slowly over to a "more money for us, more of a rip off to the customer" model
It's great when you see F2P done right, but as a model its so temping for the dev to creep slowly over to a "more money for us, more of a rip off to the customer" model
HawksWinStanley
Member
So the kid's a thief and committed identity fraud. He should be charged as an adult and imprisoned for life.
DarthWalden
Banned
I think the mother should take some fault for this... My son charged 200$ to fruit ninja and I noticed the exuberant charge on my credit card immediately and I called up apple immediately and they refunded me.
...why?
Well you probably use the gold you bought ingame to spend. But the thing is you can buy that with a press of a button. I never tried the casino though i only got it from the article that was posted.
I've heard a few cases where this has happened, and the parent has been refunded without any issues every time, the fact that is the case would imply they're aware there is no safely net in place to prevent things like this from happening
I feel like they could do something that would help.
Like if iOS IAPs had a soft cap of $100 per month per account unless the user opted in to unlimited IAPs. The opt-in could contain information about these crazy situations. It might not prevent all the issues, but it would reduce them I think.
pinkurocket
Member
The boy knew exactly what he was doing. He's simply irresponsible with (other people's) money and is hiding behind an act of ignorance to get away with it. It's nothing new at all.
Microtransactions and freemium models are still awful, but in this case it's not just the problem of those.
Microtransactions and freemium models are still awful, but in this case it's not just the problem of those.
IAPs are fine, gambling with real money is not. And that includes blind boxes in my opinion, like in DotA2 or TF2. I don't have a problem with games using business models like that, but they shouldn't be M, they should be AO. Just like actual gambling.
Yeah these people make games with the sole intention of draining money from the vulnerable, and that is the problem with F2P, for every game that uses the model to fund a great free game, there are 1000 devs making games to rip people off
Version 3.0
Member
I find it disgusting that it's even possible to spend that amount of money in any game, especially one labelled "free". It's a scam, and what happened here is exactly what's designed to happen outside of it not being his own card.
Still, there were multiple failures on the other side, too. The CC should have better protection. My CC company would've called me immediately. Hell, they called me this weekend for buying gas out-of-state.
The parents should know better and use the built-in phone / tablet protections.
The kid should know basic math and realize how much he was spending.
But it all starts with an app that's designed with the specific intent of this result.
Still, there were multiple failures on the other side, too. The CC should have better protection. My CC company would've called me immediately. Hell, they called me this weekend for buying gas out-of-state.
The parents should know better and use the built-in phone / tablet protections.
The kid should know basic math and realize how much he was spending.
But it all starts with an app that's designed with the specific intent of this result.
There is blame to go around on all parties involved, here, especially the parents. However, Apple must put better checks in place for this kind of thing. I mean, once he passed 1000 there should have been red flags all over the place thrown up and someone should have called to verify the purchases were legit.
I doubt 99% of all gamers will spend £37,000 on games in their lifetime
That's quite the high credit card limits they have there. But seriously, I think there should be some limits. I know F2P games need some heavy payers to subsidize the rest, but they really shouldn't depend on individuals spending multiple thousands a month, at least not without some sort of warning/reminder/disclaimer after total spending goes over a certain amount.
Also, this needs to be implemented by Apple and Google themselves or the only way to get it done is through legislation, because many devs are super scummy. I've seen countless games that don't even bother displaying how much the purchase is going to cost inside the game UI. Some don't even properly identify buttons that are going to trigger a purchase as such, the password prompt just comes up for no apparent reason.
Also, this needs to be implemented by Apple and Google themselves or the only way to get it done is through legislation, because many devs are super scummy. I've seen countless games that don't even bother displaying how much the purchase is going to cost inside the game UI. Some don't even properly identify buttons that are going to trigger a purchase as such, the password prompt just comes up for no apparent reason.
Dungeon Keeper mobile missed a trick.
eighty(one)
Member
Maybe his mom didn't notice, because it wasn't her money/account. For whatever reason, she was buying Ebooks using her own fathers account. This whole saga effected the grandfather, I suppose?
It says right there in the original post. In only a few months.