Unskilled, poor paying work for the Brits, skilled, high paying work for the best and brightest in the world.
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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows
- Thread starter theaface
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Unskilled, poor paying work for the Brits, skilled, high paying work for the best and brightest in the world.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The OP is so good
The description for Cameron is great
Corbyn as Littlefinger was unexpected but works really well
The description for Cameron is great
Corbyn as Littlefinger was unexpected but works really well
The only way wages can rise for unskilled work is to have a shortage of supply of labour. Simple supply and demand economics.
Some of those jobs don't even get advertised on the UK job market the employer just rings a Rent-An-Eastern-European agency and brings in labour willing to be whipped for no cost. This creates a persistent depressing effect on unskilled wages as demand can be satiated without limit. The problem this causes is that it only takes one employer to leverage cheap labour to gain a competitive advantage and everyone then feels compelled to do it.
Amazon for instance have legions of self employed foreign drivers delivering parcels, I'm yet to meet an English one. You can't tell me there's no one in this country willing to drive about for a living.
My industry is construction, "Apprenticeship," is the new buzzword in my game certainly.
ClosingADoor
Member
What stopping the government from increasing minimum wage at the moment to do those jobs then? Because here the argument is that people need to earn more from that work. Well, that is fine (if it is possible, because margins aren't exactly high in all these jobs, but that aside), but nothing is stopping the UK government from increasing wages. Or from lowering taxes for those on minimum wage so their net wage is up.
And honestly, we don't want to do that work. It sucks. It is getting up early, it is tiring, it is long hours. People from Eastern Europe do it because in the end it is still better then their home situation. For us, not so much, because our home situation is pretty fine even if we don't work. Once their home countries improve, they don't want to do it anymore also.
jimbobsmells
Member
Only the 'highly skilled' have the right to migrate in our glorious Brexit future.
Westbahnhof
Banned
This is why it's bizarre and hilarious that my friend was denied her beer at some shop in Aberdeen because they didn't accept her German non-passport ID.
"I used this to come into this country!"
Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order
Member
Norwegian/English. Was gonna be a lawyer in the UK, I have a LLB specialized in... EU law and Politics 🤣😅
Can't make this shit up...
Really?
Whenever I've come back into the UK from France I've always been asked for my passport.
Does France have a EU-recognised ID card? If so, you should be 100% fine. I am based in the UK and have travelled all over the EU on my ID card for over 12 years.
Increasing minimum wage will exacerbate the problem, not solve it.
Minimum wage earners currently pay no tax, a lot actually qualify for subsidies.
The last paragraph is nonsense. We cleaned our own toilets and picked our own fruit before mass immigration, you are talking to someone who spent his school summer holidays working on the local farms and loved it.
They ask me for my passport whenever I go there by airplane. They never accepted my Spanish ID. So that comes like a surprise huh
Souldriver
Member
I don't watch Game of Thrones, and still I got some enjoyment out of the OP. 
Anyway, things are look pretty good.
Anyway, things are look pretty good.
No EU nationals need to show their passport when entering & exiting the UK
I know plenty of EU people who have visited the UK without a passport. In fact airports usually have a line marked "national IDs".
Not sure if Spanish IDs are a special case though...
Hmm, thats not right then - my gf has been travelling to/from the UK using her Spanish ID like 3 or 4 times a year for the last 5 years or so. At the moment you can definitely get through the airport with just an EU ID card
ClosingADoor
Member
So... you willing to do that work 40 hours a week for 20 years or so at minimum wage? Doubt it. You can still do the job, they will hire you no problem.
How is increasing minimum wage not fixing things. Britons don't want to do the job. Increase minimum wage. They still don't want it, according to you. So in which situation would they want to do the job?
Will be interesting to see how Tywin survives this shitshow considering what happened to the High Sparrow.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/06/jacob-rees-mogg-opposed-to-gay-marriage-and-abortion-even-after
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/06/jacob-rees-mogg-opposed-to-gay-marriage-and-abortion-even-after
Do what job?
You do realise "labour shortage," is actually code for "We are having to pay more!!?"
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, and that is what you argued against:
So when will Britons want to do the job, if increasing wages will not do it? Or am I misunderstanding your argument here?
You might say, increasing minimum wage will lead to more people coming. But that is already offset by Britons who would now do the job because they will earn more. If they do not want the job even when earning more, then stopping EU-immigrants from coming will also not suddenly have local people taking these jobs.
I dunno, do we get much unskilled labour from outside the EU, they have complete control of that but nobody seems to discuss those numbers being high.
Yes, there seems to be this lack of understanding that controlled migration from outside the EU is higher than uncontrolled migration from inside the EU.
You only have to look at how many workers cleaning office buildings, hotels etc in London and other big cities are from places like South America.
Could it just be down to the nomenclature that is used, controlled vs uncontrolled.
No it isn't.
You can't just increase the price of labour on a market that isn't ready for increased prices. Not only does it create false inflation for everyone it also makes us uncompetitive.
The ideal situation is the demand for goods and services increases which in turn increases the demand for labour. In this situation if supply is finite then wages will naturally be pushed steadily upwards as competition for labour increases, the wage inflation at this point isn't too much of an issue for competitiveness as other economies of scale start to come in to play through increased output.
We currently have a weird situation where we have got low unemployment but we are seeing really slow unskilled wage inflation which suggests demand for labour is getting satiated somewhat indefinitely. Believe me Costa will pay more to employ a Barista once they start to get hard to come by, until that point, they won't.
The UK and the US are at functionally full employment. Wages are largely stagnant in both.
ClosingADoor
Member
Those come mostly for studies it seems. Wonder how many stick around after. And family unification.
So artificially increasing wages will somehow be bad (despite it giving people more money to spread around in the economy) but artificially decreasing the labor supply is not? Both lead to inflation and makes you less competitive, because if increases costs.
Costa will pay whatever they can get away with. If that is too little to have a functioning job market, the government should step in and increase the wages a bit.
The real problem in the UK economy is the lack of productivity growth more than anything else. UK employers have failed to invest in labour-saving technologies that can increase productivity. Instead UK employers have decided its better to employ more low-wage employees on zero hour contracts, how probably not that incentivised to be more productive.
Ah the stupidy wagon trundles on.
http://news.sky.com/story/ftse-100-chiefs-fury-at-no-10-letter-backing-ministers-on-brexit-11023229
Oh this is so funny.
http://news.sky.com/story/ftse-100-chiefs-fury-at-no-10-letter-backing-ministers-on-brexit-11023229
Oh this is so funny.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Those come mostly for studies it seems. Wonder how many stick around after. And family unification.
So artificially increasing wages will somehow be bad (despite it giving people more money to spread around in the economy) but artificially decreasing the labor supply is not? Both lead to inflation and makes you less competitive, because if increases costs.
Costa will pay whatever they can get away with. If that is too little to have a functioning job market, the government should step in and increase the wages a bit.
Most students leave actually. Read an article stating that the figures for students who stayed afterwards was very, very wrong.
Those come mostly for studies it seems. Wonder how many stick around after. And family unification.
So artificially increasing wages will somehow be bad (despite it giving people more money to spread around in the economy) but artificially decreasing the labor supply is not? Both lead to inflation and makes you less competitive, because if increases costs.
Costa will pay whatever they can get away with. If that is too little to have a functioning job market, the government should step in and increase the wages a bit.
We are artificially increasing labour supply currently by pinching labour from countries with their own problems and shortages.
It should be noted that I'm all for immigration, I just think that like the rest of the economy Labour supply should be properly managed.
Put simply if you force higher prices on a thing then less is purchased in none supply constrained scenarios. You can't defeat supply and demand economics.
oh for fuck sake. he's one of those kinds of tories.
Dear Government,
You are the best at Brexit, and I support you. I think you are strong and stable.
Yours sincerely,
Not Government
Next step, produce make britain great again hats.
jimbobsmells
Member
Only if they are red, white and blue hats.
Rees Mogg is like a cartoonish version of an evil Tory.
A bigot, racist, homophobic, pro life, eurosceptic, highly religious, socially and fiscally conservative toff. Even looks the part, tall and thin like a long steak of piss, grey skinned, complete with the round glasses and beady eyes.
Its dangerous because he seems like a bumbling idiot, just like Boris people laugh at him and think "Oh what a strange man". It happened during the election when the funny picture of him and his son outside the tattoo parlour went viral but he could actually do a lot of damage if he ever gets himself into a position of power in a cabinet reshuffle or God forbid a leadership run. There's a dearth of talent in the Tory party so it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility.
A bigot, racist, homophobic, pro life, eurosceptic, highly religious, socially and fiscally conservative toff. Even looks the part, tall and thin like a long steak of piss, grey skinned, complete with the round glasses and beady eyes.
Its dangerous because he seems like a bumbling idiot, just like Boris people laugh at him and think "Oh what a strange man". It happened during the election when the funny picture of him and his son outside the tattoo parlour went viral but he could actually do a lot of damage if he ever gets himself into a position of power in a cabinet reshuffle or God forbid a leadership run. There's a dearth of talent in the Tory party so it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...irish-border-post-brexit-say-leaked-eu-papers
What's shocking is that this is considered news; the fact that we'd have to fix our own mess in Ireland instead of the EU should have been common sense from day one.
What's shocking is that this is considered news; the fact that we'd have to fix our own mess in Ireland instead of the EU should have been common sense from day one.
anonymous_abc
Member
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Last edited:
The article basically says some people aren't providing a signature.
Not exactly news,even with the journalistic twang.
We all share an understanding that Brexit is happening, a commitment to ensure that we make a success of the outcome for the whole country, and a confidence that a global Britain has the potential to become one of the most productive economies of the 21st century.
TL
R; hopefully everything will be OK - please sign here!We all share an understanding that Brexit is happening, a commitment to ensure that we make a success of the outcome for the whole country, and a confidence that a global Britain has the potential to become one of the most productive economies of the 21st century.
TL
Do we know how many have agreed with that statement yet?
There are some minor solutions they could try:
If a hard border is created give Irish dual citizenship so people can get through border control easily.
Get individual counties to vote if they want to remain in the UK or stay in the EU and join Ireland. I don't see unification as a whole happening but county by county basis might get some border counties to flip.
Smaller border and Ireland might be able to take on the cost of individual counties instead of a whole country.
If a hard border is created give Irish dual citizenship so people can get through border control easily.
Get individual counties to vote if they want to remain in the UK or stay in the EU and join Ireland. I don't see unification as a whole happening but county by county basis might get some border counties to flip.
Smaller border and Ireland might be able to take on the cost of individual counties instead of a whole country.
Souldriver
Member
A daily reminder how much of a mess the brexit is, and how the EU is focusing on protecting its interests while the UK is caught in surprise and can only muster a no. Shits gonna hit the fan on 29 march 2019. It's incredible how you can hold a Countdown clock to announced economic and political disaster.
Things are looking pretty good.
The quote or my synopsis?! I don't think that info is in the article. There's not much to disagree with when all it says is 'we are publicly trying to be optimistic' - I guess everyone can endorse that. The issue is that privately there appears to be no plan, no clue and no process or understanding to address the hideous complexities of the situation. I assume that's why business is pissed, and they're quite right to be.
Its always been amazing how Brexiteers painted the EU to be this huge Britain-hating organisation that just wants to bleed the country dry, but also that it will bend over backwards to give the UK what it wants when the UK leaves. Its especially annoying when you consider that the opposite is basically true too