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Can we please stop with the whole "60 fps is not cinematic" argument.
- Thread starter mechphree
- Start date
KojiKnight
Member
Wait, people used the "cinematic" excuse seriously? I thought that was always sarcastic? Not even joking, I always read "it's more cinematic" as if it had a lot of winking done afterwards...
I disagree, SSM uses developer controlled camera because they want the GOW series to look like a Hollywood epic. ND also started using dynamic gamer angles with UC3 and to a lesser extent with TLoU.
There is no rule that states that 60FPS is some kind of universal requirementfor anything visually. Something is not less if it doesn't have 60FPS.
South Park is one of the few games where I felt 30fps was fine. Probably because it is turn based
biggersmaller
Banned
Yup. Games inarguably benefit from the highest possible refresh rate. But as you said, keep that shit away from my movies. I know it's only a matter of what I'm accustomed to, but it's not like that counts for nothing when 90% of the movie-going public agrees.
styl3s
Member
The problem with the 30/60 debate is a lot of people hyperbole the shit out of 30fps and call it "unplayable"
30fps is not unplayable by any means and it's absoultely absurd to think that. If you are used to 60fps that's fine. I have been a PC gamer since 2000 and a console gamer since about 1985. I love both, 30, 60 or 120. I look for story when playing a game solely based on that. I look for tight and fun gameplay along with story on most others. I still pick up console games that run at 30fps over playing them on my PC that can run them at 60fps at times, that's how little of a shit i give about it.
GRANTED i do think that Racing and Fighting games both benifit from 60fps but that isn't to say 30fps makes them unplayable. Forza Horizon was fucking fantastic at it was 30fps.
We've been putting out games at 30fps (more or less, yeah) for a while now. I mean, if you want only 24fps, that will let us put a whole lot more effects in!
Speaking less sarcastically, 30hz, 60hz and anything in between is more than just about being cinematic, it's about the underlying systems that affect gameplay and how they refresh. Your body/eye can't compensate for that like it does when watching 24fps source material on film. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge cinephile and buy Criterions, watch things in as original format as possible, etc., but in games, as most of us know, the higher the frame rate you can pull out, the better the overall experience, generally speaking.
Games vs. TV don't have that "soap opera" effect at higher than 24fps frame rates in my experience, but then again I'm not a dark10x frame rate peeper
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing our final result with TLOU PS4.
Well, personal taste aside, is it not safe to assume that visual fidelity can increase with a lower framerate? Meaning Uncharted PS4 is going to be beautiful at 30FPS
.Prophet Steve
Member
Are you serious? Plenty of console games that are 60 FPS, and besides of the input effect it has, it looks better too. When I play games with a controller on PC I still love them to be 60 FPS.
plagiarize
Banned
30 fps is completely fine when it never drops below, like in Forza Horizon or AC4 on PS4... but '30 fps' like in GTA5 and The Last of Us PS3 is what I personally find unplayable.
Frame drops break me out of the experience, and dropping from 30 is much more harmful than dropping from 60.
Ideally I want to be playing something and cant determine what is cutscene or gameplay.
Senor Kami
Banned
This. Neo Gaf is literally the only place that I've heard people arguing for higher framerate movies or saying that 24fps is jerky. High frame rate isn't bad by default but current technology makes it look like shit. Some people call it a "soap opera" effect but I think that's an insult to soap operas. Soap operas don't look fake when things start moving.
Games are the same way. Racing games look great at 60FPS imo. Actually tons of games do. Stuff with people generally doesn't to me. I blame it on tech combined with developer incompetence. If it was simply the framerate, nothing would look good. The fact that some things do leads me to believe that some studios simply are garbage at it while others aren't.
Simply put, TVs can't output at 48 fps without a pulldown method that would incur a lot of stuttering. This is one area where I think James Cameron is going to have a tremendous advantage in for the Avatar sequels, since he's planning on shooting them at 60 fps, which doesn't need any of that nonsense to display properly on a TV set.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
What makes them "your" movies? They're MY movies just as much, and I want them at higher framerates.
90% agrees on 24fps? Are you sure about that, and why does it matter? Tyranny of the majority, yay! Frameskip would be easy to implement specifically for those who think they want it.
'Frameskip'? No, if you have 48fps, and you shoot at 1/48, you can abstract basically a perfect 24fps version of a film, but if you go to anything about 48, you can't anymore.
CadetMahoney
Member
I thought they where joking too, just goes to show.
That was Cameron's orig plan but didn't i read that it had changed because of the 'backlash' against The Hobbit?, i thought i read that.
So anyway if AVATAR 2 runs at 60fps, we should also get 60fps on the Blu-Ray?.
travisbickle
Member
It's predominantly used as a joke, but the joke is that a few believe it, like "I can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080p anyway" meme.
Can't we just agree that those who are really interested in the frame rate will play on PC and have a good time, and those who prefer an easier console experience will play on console and also enjoy themselves?
Then we can stop the dick waving on shit nobody cares about and focus more on good games.
Now amount of bitchy comments on either side will change anybodies mind on anything.
Then we can stop the dick waving on shit nobody cares about and focus more on good games.
Now amount of bitchy comments on either side will change anybodies mind on anything.
GlamFM
Banned
I don´t see how these things have anything to do with each other.
It should be the other way around, (almost) stable 1080p@60 on consoles, and prettify toggles on pc. That way even after years of eyecandy advancements, when even those cinematic experience slideshows would look outdated and ugly, one would have timeless playable framerates.
You remind me off the Arkam Gamesbwhere the prerendered cutscenes look way worse than the game itself on a good PC.
Some devs and publishers value framerate even on consoles. It's a valid discussion.
ResidentDante
Member
i thought this was a good example, featuring Counter-Strike:
http://30vs60fps.com/
or this one:
https://boallen.com/fps-compare-html5.html
I'm really not fussed about what way which way it should be man. GAF can make itself look like a bunch of turds arguing about this every two days, when honestly, no amount of these threads has ever changed anyone's mind on anything.
I will never talk a PC guy around to why I enjoy consoles. A PC guy will never talk me out of enjoying consoles.
I know what I like, and so does he. And that's cool.
So why waste so much time and nerd rage trying?
nkarafo
Member
Not only that. Future generations will look at out 24fps movies and wonder how could we be entertained with that shit.
AstroNut325
Member
60fps
In games.
And movies.
Please.
In games.
And movies.
Please.
As far as I know, he hasn't budged on shooting at HFR at all. He's a stubborn son of a bitch, and if his mind is set on doing things a certain way, you're not going to talk him out of it.
The Blu-ray situation is an interesting one, because players do support 1080p60, but there's an issue of disc space to consider, and that would only be in 2D, since HDMI profile is still limited to either 1080p24 or 720p60 for 3D anything on Blu-ray players. That will probably change once 4K becomes more widespread, but that's what is currently needing to be dealt with.
TheKastorian
Member
Sorry for the vulgar language, but The Hobbit at 48 fps looked like crap.
I like my games at 60fps but wouldn't mind having cutscenes in the 24-30 fps range. The best current example I thought of game that could use this was Ground Zeroes.
I like my games at 60fps but wouldn't mind having cutscenes in the 24-30 fps range. The best current example I thought of game that could use this was Ground Zeroes.
going from 60FPS to 30FPS on that made me feel nauseous.
I will never embrace The Hobbit.
polyh3dron
Banned
Because TVs have a refresh rate of 60hz. So you can either sync to the refresh rate of the TV, or you can double every frame to make your frame rate be half of that.
No they won't, they'll look back and wonder where it all went wrong.
I was really worried when some folk said Ground Zeroes 60fps cutscenes made them look cheap or too fast, but after seeing them myself, I think they're fantastic. The detail, fidelity and smoothness on display is just magnificent.
I watched some of the cutscenes again on youtube, which compresses them to 30fps, and damn was the difference in quality noticeable. I could see stuttering, there was less clarity, and it actually made my eyes tired watching it compared to the direct 60fps in the game.
polyh3dron
Banned
How about no?
Console games used to run at 60FPS almost all the time back in the day.
polyh3dron
Banned
Blu-ray supports 2D 1080p/60 video so they could have converted it to 60 for the 2D version if they really wanted to.
24FPS video gets converted to 30 all the time and has been for years using what's called the "3:2 pulldown" process. The same process can be used for 48FPS video to make it 60FPS.
I don't think so, the 60fps titles I remembered were fighting games.
polyh3dron
Banned
I had a long post earlier in the thread that explained how the 2D consoles ran games almost exclusively at 60FPS and I'm not wrong about that.
This is the part of the frame rate thread where people come in with bad information and poison the well saying that the people with the correct information are wrong usually.
If you started with the PS1, maybe.
60 fps was practically mandatory for consoles before 3D gameplay entered onto the scene.
60 fps does make games more fun, by virtue of making them more responsive, sooooooooooooooooooooo...
This one for me is the best example.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
The problem with 60fps games mostly applies to those that use a photorealistic style. More frames allow our brains to perceive more effectively the fakeness of what we're seeing on the screen. One comment from one of the first viewers of the Hobbit at 48fps sums it up perfectly: "at 24fps I see a hobbit but at 48fps I see a guy dressed as a hobbit". I don't have a problem with devs targeting 60fps but it would be nice if they offered an option play the games at 30fps, at least the cutscenes since those tend to be the most jarring.
These are some examples:
Then again, I suppose most people don't notice or care about these issues, just like most people don't notice or care about ghosting on modern TVs.
It's also interesting that so many people not only cannot accept that there are legitimate reasons why some prefer 30fps over 60fps but also engage in shaming us for our preferences.
These are some examples:
Then again, I suppose most people don't notice or care about these issues, just like most people don't notice or care about ghosting on modern TVs.
It's also interesting that so many people not only cannot accept that there are legitimate reasons why some prefer 30fps over 60fps but also engage in shaming us for our preferences.
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