-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
CES: Press' first impressions on Steam Machines and Controller
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
Why is that?
I can't speak to the haptic stuff, but I'm always wary of touchpad style controls. The left stick stuff sounds rough to me, not sure aiming would be enjoyable either.
Both traditional KB+Mouse and various existing controllers will work with SteamOS too. I'm not surprised people are finding it hard to use. It's a totally new take and probably isn't very intuitive. Do any of the 300 Steam testers love it after using it for a long period of time?
Boombloxer
Member
Not going to jump to conclusions yet.
The controller is definitely different, but it's still a work in progress. I don't think the Steam Machines will be more than a 5-6M niche, but they should be given time, as its not out yet.
Sounds like a long way to go, but that's what testing is for. How long it takes is a different story.
The controller is definitely different, but it's still a work in progress. I don't think the Steam Machines will be more than a 5-6M niche, but they should be given time, as its not out yet.
Sounds like a long way to go, but that's what testing is for. How long it takes is a different story.
Yeah it sounds pretty funky on paper. Can't wait for trying it out though. Go check out this guys videos. Lot of games tested with the controller. https://www.youtube.com/user/TrialByGame
jediyoshi
Member
Have you never enjoyed the pure bliss that is the original iPod scroll wheel?
This is a problem with this entire idea of reaching too far out for a unique controller. Look at nintendo's mess now and take in account of how much money MS and Sony spent for R&D on their controllers. If there was a ton more room for innovation...do you honestly think MS and Sony wouldn't go for a completely new gamepad design? I have a real good feeling that the reason for both MS and Sony sticking with this "standard" gamepad design after all the millions upon millions spent on R&D for their controllers...that maybe just maybe there simply is not nothing out there that much better than the dual analog sticks,etc..that standardized design that we all grow to love over the years with gamepads.
I don't know i could be wrong but it just seems that Valve is reaching to far out there and the results are exactly this..a piss poor controller design. Valve just should of scrapped the entire idea honestly...just let the standard gamepad be the answer as it is now. If MS and Sony dumped millions into controllers and this is what we have..why on earth did Valve think they could come out with something better with a miniscule fraction of R&D into their controller?/ It kinda baffles me really....
In fact this entire "steam machine" thing just smells like failure...as much as i love Steam Service for PC gaming...
Navigating for music and playing a real videogame are two completely different beasts
jediyoshi
Member
Please break down to me the end result's mechanical difference in a user putting input into a touchpad device that requires precision and getting a myriad of feedback in response.
Unfortunately the standard xbox/ps gamepad is not working that good for games that use kbm. Sure many games do work just fine but it's not really the right solution. Also if you want, you can use those controllers too with steam and steamos. I think the steam controller is way more innovative than the "old" designs. We haven't had anything like this before and this is basically completely new technology. It's not very familiar and it has a learning curve. But every controller have that. First time i tried the mouse look in quake, i was watching the ceiling for the first hour. I hated the xbox gamepad at first and could not play at all.
They did not dump millions for research but i think that does not matter. It does not mean that it's automatically worse because of it and they do some pretty rigorous testing right now. If it looks like that this just does not work, they will scratch it and do something else. They have said this themselves.
The steam machine thing is mostly about getting linux gaming more popular. Go see my posts at previous page.
turbo touch for snes was of my favorite controllers of all time
i could get used to this steam controller if the pad is any way like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUqV_u_JgLQ
i could get used to this steam controller if the pad is any way like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUqV_u_JgLQ
First post and that's exactly what I was going to say. I absolutely loved those controls, too. Unfortunately if they don't get movement figured out then the whole thing will be a bust.
grandwizard
Member
Valve is showing off Legacy Mode because they know that that is going to be THE mode for the foreseeable future. That is why they have put so much effort into the steampad controller configurator via big picture and the easy sharing of them. Valve is a powerful company but they are smart enough to know that even they are not going to be able to get a huge number of developers to directly integrate the steampad into their games so soon. Most likely it'll be just the Valve games and a few valve friends games.
What this means is people will go through the growing pains that comes with m/kb emulation on a device that is not a m/kb. This includes the button prompts on the screen not matching what is on your controller (very annoying in a QTE heavy game), and things like having to emulate WASD rather than get true analog movement. Even if you could get the pad to emulate an analog stick xinput, you'll find most games won't accept that simulataneously with a mouse input.
I really think the Steampad would benefit from replacing the left side pad with a stick, as that is just more familiar for character movement and the resistance on it is useful for feedback. I have to reserve judgement though until I actually get one in my hands and can feel the haptics for myself.
alexandros
Banned
But developers don't need to do any additional work for the Steam Controller to emulate a 360 pad where it is supported, Valve should be able to do that easily.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
You normally use two mice?
Boombloxer
Member
Could still be tricky though. Non-native is always a pain.
RealityPales
Member
I just don't know how these could possibly have mass market appeal...
And don't say that's not what they're going for. That's what every company is going for.
And don't say that's not what they're going for. That's what every company is going for.
Controller looks to be a flop, which doesn't surprise me. Gaming already has the superior control method in mouse/keyboard, with dual analog controllers as a decent secondary alternative. If Valve's goal is to make PC gaming more accessible to the masses with the Steam Box, the approach should have been to cultivate an environment where developers want to rethink popular PC genres to work with dual analog controllers... not to try and design a controller that would retroactively feel good with previously released titles in a format they weren't intended for.
That's already been tried with consoles, much more aggressively than anything Valve could muster with the Steambox. In the end certain genres just don't work well with controllers, which negatively affects sales and game design. The flexibility of the Steam Controller is the right idea, the PC platform is based all around flexibility, they just need more iterations I guess.
ashecitism
Member
Tested vid featuring Greg Coomer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AnV0v9bs0
endresults
Member
SteamOS could improve game performance 100% and it still wouldn't mean much if you have to fight the controller every step of the way. I hope they figure something out.
Can Crusher
Banned
I think it's important to consider that steam machine beta users are by default inclined to endure, learn, and force their way until they get used to the steam controller. In theory I would say the vast majority of its beta testers will go the extra mile to make it work and find the positives. The fact that it's still problematic after they spend many hours on it, is not a positive indicator for a controller that is months away from release.
I reckon that if any other company was doing the controller it would've been dismissed as a niche product by now.
IISANDERII
Member
Jesus, Norm needs to take some shots of tequila before doing an interview, he seemed very nervous. And it made Coomer nervous too.
ashecitism
Member
From the RPS impression:
So true. But then again Civ5 doesn't have a linux version yet, and having Win on this event would have been weird I guess. But surely there are some cursor-heavy linux games out there.
I don't recall seeing any tester being 100% in love with it so far, but I could have missed those posts. Testers who have sorta warmed up to it and recognize how it's good for certain games? Sure.
Certain testers certainly had no qualms in ditching SteamOS and the controller and putting Win on the machine and plugging in their preferred controller only after a couple of days of testing. It varies, but I can see your point. Controller requires a lot of time and some features are still missing.
By now? People have been dismissing this whole inittiative as niche or DOA even from the get-go. These opinions just strenghten that narrative.
So true. But then again Civ5 doesn't have a linux version yet, and having Win on this event would have been weird I guess. But surely there are some cursor-heavy linux games out there.
I don't recall seeing any tester being 100% in love with it so far, but I could have missed those posts. Testers who have sorta warmed up to it and recognize how it's good for certain games? Sure.
Certain testers certainly had no qualms in ditching SteamOS and the controller and putting Win on the machine and plugging in their preferred controller only after a couple of days of testing. It varies, but I can see your point. Controller requires a lot of time and some features are still missing.
By now? People have been dismissing this whole inittiative as niche or DOA even from the get-go. These opinions just strenghten that narrative.
charlequin
Banned
Very possibly! But one of the things I like about companies like Valve is their ability to push through ideas that seem dumb upfront (like, well, Steam itself) until they can be iterated to a point where they're actually useful. If there's a chane the controller can still turn out to be useful, I want to give it enough time to sink in, even if there's an awkward adolescence upfront.
MutonCommander
Banned
So, Valve is taking its traditional slow iterative software approach to hardware as well. Unless the company suddenly announces a slew of Linux games from big and small developers, I won't be buying a first-gen Steam Machine. I'd rather wait until the whole ecosystem is baked and ready rather than be stuck with an early adopter clunker of a machine.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I'm treating steam boxes the same way I (try) and treat early access games. that is not to buy them but keenly follow their development.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Out of the gate, it's a better setup for keyboard and mouse games on a couch because most people would have an annoying time of trying to use a keyboard and mouse on a couch.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
So is there an expected price for this? I'd be willing to try it for say 30 maybe a little higher but not much.
GHG
Member
I personally think that this is one of those devices that just takes a while to get used to but once you do, you'll find it far superior to a regular controller.
Instinctively us humans are resistant to change and anything different gets labeled bad, a lot of the time wrongly. Sometimes we need to open our minds and push against these instincts.
Instinctively us humans are resistant to change and anything different gets labeled bad, a lot of the time wrongly. Sometimes we need to open our minds and push against these instincts.
8-bit Hero
Banned
Will this be Valve's first failure?
Valve has had failures in past.
Steam was their greatest failure, and their biggest success.
Hmmm a new machine that can (and will) still have vast users using KB&M with a controller that is not even Marmite levels of joy (Love it or Hate it).
The controller looked poor on reveal and these impressions seem to be cementing that it is...far from ideal or intuitive??
Early days but not a good start for Valve, although it is only Steam OS they are really selling/pushing anyway!
The controller looked poor on reveal and these impressions seem to be cementing that it is...far from ideal or intuitive??
Early days but not a good start for Valve, although it is only Steam OS they are really selling/pushing anyway!
probably worth paying more attention to the beta testers ongoing feeling of the pad than press' short impressions. Its a familiar controller (pad in hands, main action with thumbs) but an unconventional input method, gonna trix the brainz. (I havent been following the beta testers so dunno how they are finding it now).
Fried Food
Banned
I don't see how you could play a competative FPS if you are controlling your view by swiping? seems incrediblly imprecise.
precision would be fine, it'd be the speed of moving a big arc that'd be the letdown.
ashecitism
Member
Polygon is actually positive/hopeful about it; video featuring Jeff Bellinghausen: http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/9/5290746/steam-controller-hands-on-valve-ces-2014
plus, about Dota 2
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/8/5289314/valve-working-to-get-dota-2-playable-on-steam-controller
btw I thought they already released the specific API for the controller, but here he says "soon"
plus, about Dota 2
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/8/5289314/valve-working-to-get-dota-2-playable-on-steam-controller
btw I thought they already released the specific API for the controller, but here he says "soon"
alexandros
Banned
I'm very interested to see how developers take advantage of the controller api, I'm expecting some really innovative control schemes.
I don't know why Dota or multiplayer FPS games are always the first thing brought up in threads about this controller. There are plenty of games on steam that don't work well, or at all, with a 360 controller that don't fall into those categories. The controller seems like it would be a good fit for stuff like Kerbal Space Program, Civ, Total War, or the paradox games. It won't be perfect for every game, but what controller is?
alexandros
Banned
Also, older titles that don't support controllers at all.