alexandros
Banned
That's actually a very good idea, but Valve clearly phoned it in at CES PR-wise.
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CES: Press' first impressions on Steam Machines and Controller
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
That's actually a very good idea, but Valve clearly phoned it in at CES PR-wise.
Yep, let's all just stop trying to improve and invent things.
I played with the Steam controller months ago. My impressions below...
The problem is if you're going to reinvent the wheel you need a wheel that is better than the current wheel, otherwise there's no incentive to switch. This is not better for anyone.
The controller is neither better than a KB&M or an Xbox Controller initially picking up or at the highest level. It's a middle of the road solution which is bad.
The Steam controller takes a long time to get used to (hours) before you're as proficient with it as a Xbox controller or KB&M. But I can just plug in an Xbox controller or KB&M and use those instantly without any hassle. On top of that at the highest level of competitive play you won't use it either (say on DotA2 you're going to stick with the KB&M.)
So there's no incentive for hardcore players to stick with it because the old method is better. And there's no incentive for casual players to use it because it's harder to initially learn and pick up then a traditional KB&M or xbox controller.
I played CS with easy bots with it and I felt like a grandmother trying to play games with her children. I couldn't get kills. And I used to play CS 1.6 in CAL and at Lan cafes for money in tournaments. Hook up a KB&M or even an xbox controller and I'd have done just fine.
But I love that Valve has gone out on a limb and tried to reinvent the wheel. Also the Steam box doesn't live or die with this controller because you can use a KB&M or xbox controller with it. So they can take the risk and lose nothing. I'm glad they took a risk and I hope they continue to refine it. I had really high hopes that they got it right, but I don't think they did yet.
The problem is if you're going to reinvent the wheel you need a wheel that is better than the current wheel, otherwise there's no incentive to switch. This is not better for anyone.
The controller is neither better than a KB&M or an Xbox Controller initially picking up or at the highest level. It's a middle of the road solution which is bad.
The Steam controller takes a long time to get used to (hours) before you're as proficient with it as a Xbox controller or KB&M. But I can just plug in an Xbox controller or KB&M and use those instantly without any hassle. On top of that at the highest level of competitive play you won't use it either (say on DotA2 you're going to stick with the KB&M.)
So there's no incentive for hardcore players to stick with it because the old method is better. And there's no incentive for casual players to use it because it's harder to initially learn and pick up then a traditional KB&M or xbox controller.
I played CS with easy bots with it and I felt like a grandmother trying to play games with her children. I couldn't get kills. And I used to play CS 1.6 in CAL and at Lan cafes for money in tournaments. Hook up a KB&M or even an xbox controller and I'd have done just fine.
But I love that Valve has gone out on a limb and tried to reinvent the wheel. Also the Steam box doesn't live or die with this controller because you can use a KB&M or xbox controller with it. So they can take the risk and lose nothing. I'm glad they took a risk and I hope they continue to refine it. I had really high hopes that they got it right, but I don't think they did yet.
I appreciate what Valve's trying to accomplish with the controller. And hopefully they'll eventually get it right. But Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo invest tens and tens of millions of dollars (Microsoft over $100 mil) on their controller designs. It's an extremely difficult and costly enterprise. Is it really worth throwing good money after bad to develop this controller when a KB/M and third party controller do the job just as well?
alexandros
Banned
Don't remind me, the event was at 3 a.m. in my country and I stayed awake to follow it live. Then Gabe appears, talks about about some vague stuff, goes "I'm out, bitches!" and that was it. What the fuck.
Still, PR blunder aside, both the Steam Machines and the Steam Controller have real potential. I just hope they plan their next reveal much better.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Sounds like the left circle pad should be replaced with an analog stick/dpad combo since that will be emulating analog or wasd movement 99% of the time anyway. The right side still sounds like a viable alternative to an analog stick though. Would really like to get my hands on this thing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's a win/win for everybody- for games that the Steam controller doesn't offer the best input method, it's easy enough to just use another controller or KBM, and the Steam controller is there for something different and the occasional game that it really does work well for.
The problem is, as I said, KB/M or xbox controller does the job BETTER than the SteamOS controller.
If you're going to use KBM, why even bother with a steam machine in the first place? Get a regular PC.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Is the controller the only appeal of the Steam Machine?
Ivan
Member
Vigilant Gambit
Member
I think the point of the steam controller is less to be better than KBM/360 pad and more to provide an actual workable solution for steamos/couch play.
I can't play Civ V on my couch.
I can't play Civ V on my couch.
SteveWinwood
Member
Yes? What else is there? It's a PC with a console like interface designed to be used in the living room. Without that interface, it's nothing more than a preconfigured PC you can get anywhere.
The controller as we know it has been the same since the stone age.
Yes, MS spend over 100 million on designing it, but that's just about the design. Sony and MS don't dare to play with the true important mechanics.
For example:
The turning 180 degrees in a shooter: it's the exact same slow velocity on a PS4 and Xbox One controller as it is on the PS1 and Xbox 1(?) controller.
It's bullshit. It's like you are controlling a robot instead of a person.
It'll never be as good. It'll be convenient to not lug a keyboard on your lap to play a PC game, sure. But you're not going to want to do any serious online competitive gaming that way. The games were made with either a controller or KB/M. Think of it like analog controls simulated on an tablet game. It'll never be as good as the real thing. Even the best cases of it are good, but a controller is preferred.
ashecitism
Member
Yes, Valve was pretty clear in their announcement that full compatibility with their library was a main point in designing this. Not every game has controller support, and if you want to play Civ V on couch this will be a more comfortabke solution than kb&m. This is not an ultimate, replace-you-current-device product.
I really don't want to use analog stick based controlled in all my games. I can now switch between comfy couch mode and desktop mode pretty easily using xbmc and big picture but the xbox controller limits the games that i can play via tv. You can emulate the mouse cursor too on some games but it's just bad. Also i don't really like how limited it is overall.
The steam controller looks like that it can solve most of these problems and i'm definitely getting one when possible. I have been following the beta test and it while it looks like it's not a perfect quite yet, the potential is there. It's actually still missing the most powerful features and is just working as a kbm emulator right now. It's a completely new device and we really haven't got anything like this before so i'm sure it needs to get used to. I hated the xbox controller too when i got one couple years ago. Now after playing dark souls for about 200 hours, i'm finally getting hang of it.
The steam controller looks like that it can solve most of these problems and i'm definitely getting one when possible. I have been following the beta test and it while it looks like it's not a perfect quite yet, the potential is there. It's actually still missing the most powerful features and is just working as a kbm emulator right now. It's a completely new device and we really haven't got anything like this before so i'm sure it needs to get used to. I hated the xbox controller too when i got one couple years ago. Now after playing dark souls for about 200 hours, i'm finally getting hang of it.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Which is a great thing to aim for, and it does sound like they've done well in that regard. What concerns me is that it may turn out to be a jack of all trades, but a master of none. If it's an even worse replacement for a kbm setup in FPS than dual analogue then it seems pointless, and I'm not convinced that it will be any more than adequate for other types of game.
Or maybe these press folk are just trying to use it like a dual analogue and missing the point. I want to get my hands dirty with it and find out.
SteveWinwood
Member
Anyone who thinks this is going to replace their control scheme for CS or Dota is insane.
I can't think it would be terribly hard to replace a 360 controller for a majority of PC games that'd you'd use it for though.
they'd have to try pretty hard if they wanted to make it worse for shooters than dual analog sticks
I think Valve is really overreaching with this Steam Machines thing. Their approach ("we're Valve, we're awesome!") doesn't really cut it for me. They haven't done anything to me that proves that there is a demand or any need at all for a Steam Machine. Worse, they don't seem as though they feel they need to prove it.
If it fails, they probably won't care, since it's a drop in the bucket for them. But in order for the initiative to succeed, they will need tons of support from OEMs and software third parties. And they *will* care if it fails...
If it fails, they probably won't care, since it's a drop in the bucket for them. But in order for the initiative to succeed, they will need tons of support from OEMs and software third parties. And they *will* care if it fails...
Hello time traveler! Is there any other information from the future you'd like to share besides this?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
They already said you can buy the controller separately and you can already download the interface right now for free. So yeah that basically is all that steam machines really are.
They also said manufacturers can make their own versions of steam controllers, so you might not even get that controller included with some steam machines.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Valve should just work on native DS4 support for these machines and be done with it lol. I use the DS4 on my PC and it is fabulous.
The only games that need mouse / keyboard anymore are really RTS type games or games that have 20 buttons that need hit at some point like a real in depth simulator or MMO or someting.
I see what they are trying to do with the steam controller, I just think atm it is just too radical of a change compared to the standard dual analog stick everyone has used since the Dual Shock for what, 15 years now? Too much change too fast I think.
I will just plug my DS4 / 360 controller into my steam machine until these controllers are perfected.
The only games that need mouse / keyboard anymore are really RTS type games or games that have 20 buttons that need hit at some point like a real in depth simulator or MMO or someting.
I see what they are trying to do with the steam controller, I just think atm it is just too radical of a change compared to the standard dual analog stick everyone has used since the Dual Shock for what, 15 years now? Too much change too fast I think.
I will just plug my DS4 / 360 controller into my steam machine until these controllers are perfected.
Dual trackballs. ezmodo
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What are you trying suggest? That it could be improved over time? Because it sounds like his concerns won't be fixed unless they change it so much that it wouldn't even be the same controller anymore.
As far as I am aware, they said from the start that they are willing to do that if that's what it takes. So yes, the experience could be improved even though the controller is not good enough yet.
~500$ price point is too high for pre-built machine with controller, support etc? Cheaper laptops usually cost about the same and people even replace those fairly often. Also because the PC hardware is getting upgrades continuously, the prices should drop pretty fast, especially on older models.
Good thought there.....that sounds incredibly annoying.
alexandros
Banned
You can set a deadzone, it is not an issue.
The only thing I wish they would have done differently is split the back two triggers into four buttons each, instead of having two big flat buttons. That way you could have 12 buttons instead of 6. This is still a day one buy for me. From the videos I've seen of people using the controller, they're getting used to it pretty fast. I use a thumb trackball, so I figure getting used to what's essentially an emulated thumb trackball on the right side won't take very long to get used to.
The problem is, the controller takes more than a few hours to get used to, which is pretty obvious when you first sit down with it. People who have been playing games with xbox/ps controllers for the past decade have already had those few hours of adjustment to begin with and don't even remember what it was like the first few times they used a controller.
The fact that I've seen videos of people doing consistent 180s playing Painkiller after a few hours of use is what's convincing me that it's still useful. If you could use this on console literally 100% of the competitive FPS crowd would be using it.
The problem is, the controller takes more than a few hours to get used to, which is pretty obvious when you first sit down with it. People who have been playing games with xbox/ps controllers for the past decade have already had those few hours of adjustment to begin with and don't even remember what it was like the first few times they used a controller.
The fact that I've seen videos of people doing consistent 180s playing Painkiller after a few hours of use is what's convincing me that it's still useful. If you could use this on console literally 100% of the competitive FPS crowd would be using it.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I'm confused by this part. Twin stick FPS isn't much of a learning curve at all... too me a matter of minutes to transition from Mouse/Keyboard to console controller. My kids at a young age picked up both super easy... this doesn't seem as intuitive.
I still want to get my hands on one.
Dictator93
Member
What valve really cares about is having something marketable in-order to increase the market share.
Ultimately they want people picking some sort of steam platform over the other consoles.
Go watch this guys videos for actual gameplay and feedback for the controller. He is awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/user/TrialByGame
https://www.youtube.com/user/TrialByGame
Marketshare for SteamOS, linux and steam to be exact. If we want to get rid of Windows, this needs to happen. People will not suddenly start installing SteamOS. It did not happen with ubuntu when the linux version of steam was released. There needs to be something like Steam Machines first that people can buy instead of pre-built windows machines. Maybe after a while, people start installing more SteamOS too on their own built PCs.
Wouldn't it still be an issue for games best played with a dpad, like sidescrollers? I know the Super Meat Boy guy vouches for it, but still, the security of buttons is pretty hard to beat.
Unless the touchpad is clickable. Is it?
UpUpDownDown
Member
I for one am shocked at these revelations.
It's the chicken/egg issue. There won't be a lot of AAA games because there isn't a Linux market which in turns will prevent anyone from going "Oh, look at that,it can run a good chunk of my library!".
Yes that's true. At least valve is doing something. If this does not work, I doubt nothing will.
I guess.
I'm just surprised at the lack of actual promotion they seem to be doing. It's almost like they don't want to be involved in anything beyond : "Here is the basic stuff we have, make some more stuff if you want". Linux will never be seen as a proper gaming OS without someone driving the actual development. Previously, I've assumed that Valve would be taking that role and creating some kind of process which developers can use to easily port their games to Linux.
The actual conference was 7 minutes? Don't they want to hype up their platform?
This entire affair us just puzzling.
PandaPedinte
Member
It's clickable.
Well there are those Steam Dev days coming later this month. Also right now they are still in a testing phase. Actually even this CES event is part of a feedback test from press etc.