More Fun To Compute
Member
Well they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but I say that if it protects us from anger and sadness then it has something going for it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Changes in Steam and your future platform of choice
- Thread starter LuchaShaq
- Start date
Well they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but I say that if it protects us from anger and sadness then it has something going for it.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
You get more choices, you just have to be more careful with your money. I don't see a problem...
Well I'm not against game platforms taking the app store approach, they just need to do more work on discoverability. And Steam really has an opportunity here if it wanted to take the bull by the horns. I'm not sure I like Valves idea of giving up and letting anyone setup their own front end to curate Steam content as they like. Though maybe that would turn out great with for instance a Steam Store front end curated by some GAF people.
MDSLKTR
Member
Wat it's just a store dude how can it impact your enjoyment of gaming? It's like saying I can't enjoy music from iTunes because there's too many artists. Besides check the ps3 store now or wait a couple years to see what the ps4 store looks like. Garbage like cloudberry Kingdom or rocketbirds aren't exclusive to any service (and those even got promoted on the psblog). winter/summer sales is when the games that matter get the spotlight.
Woops I didn't clarify. Unless they changed it recently, I meant they shouldn't have them mixed in on the main page, specifically the changing banner.
The bar to entry has been lowered, which means that you have more low-quality titles making it onto Steam. That doesn't mean that the number of new, quality games appearing on Steam has been reduced - there are still just as many, if not more, good titles popping up now than there used to be.
What you can't do now is to just go to the front page, pick a new release at random, and expect it to be awesome. I don't see the big deal about that, though. What did people do before the floodgates opened? See a new game with an interesting title and go, "Oh, it's on Steam, so it must be good!" and click "buy"? Did they never bother with reviews and previews? I think it's unrealistic to expect Valve to curate the selection of games on Steam in hopes of offering guaranteed quality regardless of what you buy, and it's kind of ridiculous that some people seem to not only want that, but expect it. Apparently having to read up on new releases and follow reviews like you would with any other kind of product now spells doom for Steam.
Seriously, guys? C'mon now.I expect the grocery store not to stock milk jugs that are 2 months past expiration/rancid meat etc. And today the vast majority of new releases on steam are the game equivalent of that.
I don't buy shitty indie games or early access betas so Steam is my future platform of choice
PS4 isn't immune to this either. Mercenary Kings, Contrast and Daylight launched in barely playable states.
While I wouldn't call those games great, they are amazing compared to trash clones of mobile games that flood the store almost daily.
I never would have known about or bought half of my steam games if I didn't use to just pick random decent looking shit from the new releases and track down a quick gameplay vid or review. Even choosing at random used to give you a good shot of something decent.
Doing that now would take forever since there's so much trash.
I wasn't buying randomly.
Picking "random decent looking shit from the new releases" and pulling the trigger after watching a quick video sounds pretty close to "buying randomly" to me.
I hear a lot of people complaining about this lately and I personally dont get it.. also go back like over a year and there was people bitching how so many games like Mutant Mudds couldn't get on Steam.
I still look on the front page and see tons of great games I would love to buy.. the few stinkers don't bother me.
But for those who do want to complain I am sure there will be a way to filter out stuff like mobile ports eventually.
I still look on the front page and see tons of great games I would love to buy.. the few stinkers don't bother me.
But for those who do want to complain I am sure there will be a way to filter out stuff like mobile ports eventually.
maneil99
Member
What a load of trash, If you bought a game at the local retail store and it didn't include all the features and it's developers ditched it would that be acceptable to you.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Games on Steam have user reviews and forums. Read them.
cZarKastic
Member
No one is forcing any body to buy or vote up these bad game, the problem is not Steam it's the user-base.
kOsmikcoffee
Member
What the fuck? I love Steam. I see nothing wrong with Steam. Gaben has done masterful worth with it.
A console with a library consisting of 10 of the greatest games of all time and 50,000 of the worst games of all time would still be worth buying in my opinion. To me, a platform's true worth comes from the strength of its best titles.
Besides, I never really used the front page anyway, except to see what's on sale. With a wishlist I don't even have to do that.
Besides, I never really used the front page anyway, except to see what's on sale. With a wishlist I don't even have to do that.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
When I bring up Steam, it's sitting on my library.
I never look at the Store unless I'm typing in the name of the game I'm about to buy or there's a sale going on, and it's precisely because Steam has become a bloated piece of shit.
There should be much stronger content curation on there, and garbage games that were coded up in two days and dumped into greenlight shouldn't be there at all.
The whole "quality will float to the top" argument is about as accurate and feasible as trickle-down economics.
I never look at the Store unless I'm typing in the name of the game I'm about to buy or there's a sale going on, and it's precisely because Steam has become a bloated piece of shit.
There should be much stronger content curation on there, and garbage games that were coded up in two days and dumped into greenlight shouldn't be there at all.
The whole "quality will float to the top" argument is about as accurate and feasible as trickle-down economics.
Telephoto999
Member
while I still love steam, being burned by this current early access trend has moved me away from purchasing near as many games as I once did.
My current irritation is DayZ. I bought it day one of early access... and it hasn't changed much at all.
They keep talking, and the fan boys keep talking about all these behind the scene engine changes and how much better it's going to get...
But the absolute truth of the matter is a lot of what they want to do is already completely functioning in Arma 3 yet for some internal strife in this company they refuse to directly share the technology between the two despite DayZ selling much more than Arma 3. Also, now that the financial incentive is gone now that they literally ALREADY HAVE OUR MONEY the motivation to deliver on a fully functioning releasable product is GONE. This game will never be anywhere near where the idea and premise of the game promised.
/rant
My current irritation is DayZ. I bought it day one of early access... and it hasn't changed much at all.
They keep talking, and the fan boys keep talking about all these behind the scene engine changes and how much better it's going to get...
But the absolute truth of the matter is a lot of what they want to do is already completely functioning in Arma 3 yet for some internal strife in this company they refuse to directly share the technology between the two despite DayZ selling much more than Arma 3. Also, now that the financial incentive is gone now that they literally ALREADY HAVE OUR MONEY the motivation to deliver on a fully functioning releasable product is GONE. This game will never be anywhere near where the idea and premise of the game promised.
/rant
Wait I don't understand? You stop buying quality PC releases because there are bad games on the storefront?
I don't think you are a wackjob, I don't think anyone likes shovelware. But what store do you visit that doesn't sell games that aren't very good? Even in the good old days the walls of Funcoland were lined with crap plenty of times. I researched though and knew what to buy because of it.
I dislike mobile/tablet game storefronts because 95% of the titles are shite, and the 5% that are good, tend to merely be good by 'mobile standards' which are fairly well below the cream of the crop on dedicated gaming devices. That combination of things (plus the mass adoption of anti consumer business models prevalent in smartphone games) pushes me away from the Mobile App markets, its not solely the existence of shovelware. Shovelware is everywhere. And even today, Steam has a much lower ratio of it than any other large gaming marketplace I can think of, be it digital or physical.
The reason they can't directly share work is both games are completely different engines.
DayZ standalone tookn RV3 and morphed it into their own engine, one with more server-side integration.
Arma 3 runs of RV4, an engine that was far too early in development when work on DayZ began.
BasilZero
Member
Steam has become like the PS2.
A lot of great games with a ton of shovelware and low budget releases.
Nothing wrong with it though as there are some hidden gems among them.
Of course we also get ports (like the FFIII one that is coming out) and multiplat releases alongside the consoles.
Its a Win-Win for those who want to have more variety in choice.
Doesnt affect my way of purchasing games on consoles either. I only buy third party console exclusives and first party titles.
Everything else both indie and multiplats on Steam.
A lot of great games with a ton of shovelware and low budget releases.
Nothing wrong with it though as there are some hidden gems among them.
Of course we also get ports (like the FFIII one that is coming out) and multiplat releases alongside the consoles.
Its a Win-Win for those who want to have more variety in choice.
Doesnt affect my way of purchasing games on consoles either. I only buy third party console exclusives and first party titles.
Everything else both indie and multiplats on Steam.
The number of quality releases on Steam has increased if anything, and even if they're obfuscated in part by the number of crap releases, it isn't some monumental task to find them. Maybe the bar for admission is a bit too low, but generally speaking, the greater amount of choice is a positive. For instance, I've spent a whole bunch of time playing Hero Siege since I got it, and that started as a mobile game and probably wouldn't have ever gotten on Steam (or found by me) in the Steam-era that you're talking about.
The cost of browsing is so minimal that the only people really hurt are the developers that don't get that guaranteed Steam cash from merely being present anymore, but it's definitely a good deal for consumers. And this is coming from someone whose game just got Greenlit.
*Cue that Jimquisition episode*
Edit: Shit early access is a completely different issue.
The cost of browsing is so minimal that the only people really hurt are the developers that don't get that guaranteed Steam cash from merely being present anymore, but it's definitely a good deal for consumers. And this is coming from someone whose game just got Greenlit.
*Cue that Jimquisition episode*
Edit: Shit early access is a completely different issue.
I think this might solve or start to solve the central problem of discoverability facing digital storefronts.
The thing is, on the whole video games, or at least console games, have always been far more regulated than other media since Nintendo dragged the industry out from under the 1983 crash. But other media get along fine without that kind of stringent gate-keeping. If you really look at film, literature, or music, there's a massive shitload of utter crap out there. Shit like "Transmorphers" is allowed to exist but people have learned to ignore it and pretty much only buy what they're interested in.
I think this is for two reasons. 1) Those media are mature enough so people can reasonably quickly tell what's good and what isn't (that wasn't really true for most people regarding video games in the early 80's). 2) You don't have one storefront trying to curate an entire meduim or an entire platform anywhere except computer software.
I think iOS has its current problem because the App Store is too narrow a channel to process the totality of software released for iOS. Consoles of course solve this problem by allowing fewer games to be released, but with this indie thing going on the manufacturers are realizing they need to be as open as possible to ensure the next big hit is on their system.
I actually don't think Sony or especially Microsoft are open enough yet for that to happen. Most of the indie games on PS4, Xbox One, and Vita are coming out either on PC first or at the same time. Early Access games also aren't really possible on consoles yet, so even as things are now, the next Minecraft explosion probably won't happen on a console.
Shit like Minecraft and user feedback are probably what convinced Valve to be more open about what they let into Steam. And I think they realized at some point in order to ensure your platform get's all the gems in a timely manner, you gotta let in all the crap too. You just gotta figure out how to manage it.
So if the rumors about the future of Steam are true, it looks like Valve is taking the multiple retailers route -- letting various retailers filter things out just like they do in the brick & mortar space and for other media. Really, PC gaming has probably always had the most shovelware, and usually retailers handled all that crap instead of just one or a few digital stores. Valve would sort of be returning to that system.
So you go to copy parties instead?
SnoutBaron
Neo Member
Exactly, as far as I'm concerned, I don't mind it being a dumping ground (at the moment) since I find out about new games through various sources.
Telephoto999
Member
You can make excuses for them all you want.
However in truth, it doesn't change anything.
There was no reason to split development.
Arma 3 is infinitely ahead of where Dayz will ever dream of being.
The game will never be what people want.
Making a mountain out a molehill. The cream rises to the top generally these days still. A year ago most of my indie purchases were based on word of mouth, and they still are. Steam still largely plays favorites with the actually decent items. You generally don't see Shitty Mobile Port get a midweek madness. The upcoming summer sale will probably not give daily deals to the half dozen RPG maker games released this month. They'll be stuck in the Weeklong Deals limbo.
I mean, clearly some cleanup would be good, and it's a bit less user friendly, but to totally abandon the platform and act helpless is a bit over the top.
The issue is more about developer visibility than it being hard on the user to me. I feel bad for some of them.
I mean, clearly some cleanup would be good, and it's a bit less user friendly, but to totally abandon the platform and act helpless is a bit over the top.
The issue is more about developer visibility than it being hard on the user to me. I feel bad for some of them.
MIlk and meat can be objectively verified as spoiled. Who can objectively determine if a game is bad?
So yes, you're asking for the equivalent of a grocery store that only stocks food you like.
What's weirder still is that you also want someone else to decide what foods you will like for you.
Slackerchan
Member
With a little due diligence the average consumer is more than capable of navigating through Steam and determining what's crap from what's not. True, Steam could probably use some more moderation on their part in determining what products get on service but, again, consumers should step up and be more cautious in their purchases.
antikythera
Banned
I don't know about FTL one way or another, but what Xbox Marketplace does works well. The store would look a lot nicer with a good aggressive cleaning.
Cato the Censor
Member
Bad games? Released on Steam? Preposterous! OP, you are right in deciding to let Sony present quality games for you to buy. All this choice on PC CAN be overwhelming.
This right here. Sadly you have to take the bad with the good. I get most of my games from a GAF review or word of mouth from a friend. I dont see a big problem with green light; but I can see the annoyance.
DXLelouch153
Banned
i use Gaf as a measuring stick on if a steam game is interesting
hasn't failed me yet
hasn't failed me yet
petran79
Banned
PS Vita too has a good amount of bad games as well.
only difference is that some of them get a translation and voice over and are ultra expensive.
the lack of PC gaming popularity in Japan, made developers distribute their crap on portable consoles instead..
Crimsonclaw111
Member
All early access games have a disclaimer at the top page. Some people, myself included, will absolutely not buy a title with that banner across it.
Roland1979
Junior Member
I think it's a huge problem, but one they can quickly turn around if they would really want to, and it hasn't, isn't and likely won't affect my hardware choice. I prefer to game multi-platform and that will not change. Growing up with not much cash to spare has thought me to do my research well and that a good story is still a good story 3 months later. So i could buy 2 or 3 games for $60 instead of just one. Twitch and GAF has only made it easier to determine what to play. However, i see this as some infection and i don't want that balance to shift where you cannot make out the forest from the trees. Valve has the money and resources to change this. The question is do they want to?
First two posts pretty much say all that needs to be said.
Its a bit ridiculous to stay away from PC gaming just because there are some bad games on sale that you don't have to buy.
CecilRousso
Member
They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. When they didn't let everyone in, Neogaf trashed them for that. Everytime a developer cried about not getting on Steam, there were large threads on GAF where everyone just felt that Valve were stupid and unfair.
Now pretty much everyone can get on Steam, and that's also wrong?
It really isn't hard to find the good games on Steam on now either.
*Read what Gaf says.
*Add Rock, Paper, Shotgun to your RSS feed.
*See what kind of games your friends on Steam play and recommend.
And even if you do find fewer games worth buying now, you probably bought way to many games before.
Now pretty much everyone can get on Steam, and that's also wrong?
It really isn't hard to find the good games on Steam on now either.
*Read what Gaf says.
*Add Rock, Paper, Shotgun to your RSS feed.
*See what kind of games your friends on Steam play and recommend.
And even if you do find fewer games worth buying now, you probably bought way to many games before.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Actually an optional filter in the settings tab would be nice to hide Alpha games.
CecilRousso
Member
Another idea for those who feel its' too hard to find the good games now: Try looking in your library first, among all the games you already bought but haven't played.
I'd hope so.
Not in the least. I'm a big boy, and perfectly capable of selecting which games to buy on my own, without any platform holder deciding what I may buy. As such, I'm happy that I can now get most games on Steam instead of having to purchase them outside the ecosystem (though I am fine with that as well).
Yes, I just decided a few days ago that I'll get an 8-core Haswell-E.