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[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Why step into the line of fire when you've learned the hard way that the public doesn't relent? This will only end when gamers as a community decide to call out their own consistently.

Actually, I don't think the online abuse will ever end.

The internet isn't some localized community of people who are easily identifiable and thus can be held to account easily for their words and misdeeds.

The internet is a global wild west in effect. Even if every country legislated against online harassment and abuse, the actually policing of it online would still be limited to the resources and capability of those countries trying to keep their connected citizens in-line.

If policy-makers and law enforcement can't put an end to it, then the online community of sensible gamers consistently calling it out isn't going to have a hope in hell of achieving that.

Unfortunately, unless the internet itself becomes completely locked down and tightly regulated, online abuse and harassment by those who take advantage of the anonymity the platform provides are here to stay and a depressing reality of a free and neutral net.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Some dude a few years ago came up to our booth [not at either of the cons you mentioned] and started going after our games (female) artist.

I promptly told him that I'd call security if he ever came back to our booth (a stupid bluff, I know, but they fell for it).

At another con, one of my friends was at their booth when some guys came up and started grilling him about DLC.

So it definitely happens.

Wasn't expecting them to be so brazen about it in public...

Such a shitty environment.

 

[Karsticles]

That and the Dunning Kruger effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

It's like a Republicans vs. Democrats theory.

 

[MilkBeard]

I'm glad this was brought up so poignantly. There is a huge problem with toxic negativity in gaming, and in the end, it doesn't even have much to do with actually critiquing games; it has everything to do with the way people gang up and spew negative nonsense and indulge in their shitty behaviors behind the curtain of a computer screen. And it is saddening that it happens 50x worse for women working on games (referring to the post by GhaleonB).

Critiquing games can be separated from this kind of toxicity. We have to be vigilante in stepping up and saying 'this is not right' when possible.

 

[The Elite]

There's always that person who sits in an OT of a game that he or she hates and continues to post about how much the game sucks. Criticism is fine but at a certain point why are they sticking around? The game sucks for you, we get it, let the people who enjoy and want to talk about the game do that. If you didn't like it and had your say just move on and don't by a future product from the same developer if the changes you want are not corrected.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Wasn't expecting them to be so brazen about it in public...

Such a shitty environment.

Public event + you think you are best friends with the devs + you think the dev will share your opinion about everything in the industry = shitty combo.

There's always that person who sits in an OT of a game that he or she hates and continues to post about how much the game sucks.

Hello, Twitch chat. I've never been in one of my female friends rooms where they did not get attacked for being a "girl gamer". It's worse if its a devstream. Far, far worse.

Some dude in the Critical Role chat once literally wrote "someone should tell Liam about SJWs" because he was wearing a shirt that read Proud Social Justice Warrior or something.

 

[Water]

I was looking around to see if I can find a more newbie-friendly thing but it's hard to find stuff that avoids jargon.

This was an article I found interesting: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Mar...th_Unity_in_creating_an_arcade_style_game.php

It's true that the guy had a lot of complaints about Unity, and to be honest despite not being very experienced with game dev I can sympathize with his complaints about the inability to customize things in Unity (a friend of mine was complaining about Unity shaders at some point). ...

FYI, I think the blogger is at fault for his first complaint - he didn't need to settle for guesstimating what the built-in physics are going to do. It looks like a simple enough scenario that he could have trivially written custom physics at least for the part of the object motion that he needs AI prediction for. My game dev students who have only been programming for months would get it done, and a seasoned dev would take just a few hours.
(It's a legit complaint about the engine that you can't inspect some of its innards when you want, I just don't think it's relevant in this particular case.)

Also, thanks to whoever linked this amazing Skullgirls thread here earlier. I'm in tears from laughing at some of those posts.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516730

 

[Narroo]

Here's a fantastic microcosm of what happens when reality intersects with GAF, nevermind the general public

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516730

They later got screwed over with their Indivisible Demo.

They went to (partly) crowd fund a game called Indivisible, and they created an entire demo to showcase the game. They barely got funded and people were complaining about how they were being partly supported by a publisher and how much cash, 2 million, they were asking for.

Meanwhile, at the same time, Mighty Number 9 got millions for funding based on several concept pictures.

 

[Syril]

They later got screwed over with their Indivisible Demo.

They went to (partly) crowd fund a game called Indivisible, and they created an entire demo to showcase the game. They barely got funded and people were complaining about how they were being partly supported by a publisher and how much cash, 2 million, they were asking for.

Meanwhile, at the same time, Mighty Number 9 got millions for funding based on several concept pictures.

Really? I think it's pretty impressive that they were able to raise more than double the amount of their Skullgirls fundraiser for a game that wasn't blatantly appealing to nostalgia.

 

[Bert]

"A 13 year old said something stupid and this is in some way relevant to a fanbase of millions"

Seriously, how to people still not understand the nature of the Internet and the numbers involved?

Of course there are arseholes, there's 2 billion people online, even if only 0.01% are arseholes that's still 20,000 running about spewing shit. The trick is to ignore them.

All reads like whiny crap to be honest, despite the nuggets of sensible stuff in there. And don't tell me that games studios would be revealing everything if it wasn't for mean people on the Internet. I'm old enough to remember before the Internet and it didn't happen then either.

I'm sure it's shitty to be a dev at times, I don't doubt that one bit. But the whole thread in OP just comes off as someone far too sensitive and who is massively reaching in terms of the causes and their impact.

I mean I remember the "tricks of devs" Twitter thread and most of the reactions like the ones he quoted were clearly joking about "being lied to" or whatever. Mostly it was people interested and amazed.

 

[The Lamp]

I dunno, isn't like 99% of this due to the fact that game developers don't tell the general gaming public how hard this stuff is? If no one ever spreads the information about how costly it is to implement multiplayer or switch engines, why would you expect the average joe to realize how damn hard/expensive it is?

There are some things you can explain and some things some people will never understand unless they learn it and experience it themselves.

As a chemical engineer, I try to advocate for science and chemistry and how our industries work and what it's like to publish scientific knowledge. To some extent, people will get it, but some just don't believe you or just won't get it unless they sit their ass through 3 years of chemistry courses, so some things are not worth explaining or the headaches with the public. If I was a climate change scientist, I would be as discouraged as game developers with trying to talk to the public. My eyes roll out of my head every time I try to have a conversation with some snooty uber driver about why there are no "addicting, cancer-causing" GMOs in your food.

 

[Pixieking]

Somewhat related:

https://twitter.com/Gaohmee/status/913541435244154880

Jennifer Scheurle‏Verified account @Gaohmee 10h10 hours ago

Obvious is, that as an industry we struggle more than any other with our relationship with our audiences, harassment is very common.

30 industry friends have recently lost their jobs and audiences, instead of empathy, had only snide and harassment left for them.

Obvious is also that talking openly about how we do our jobs can lead to people feeling betrayed and harassing us as well.

All these things are the obvious issues to solve. But no problem stands by itself, so the subtle problems we have among ourselves feed it.

I have realised this very clearly in the past months now that I work with highly regarded, long-standing, world-leading people like NASA.

NASA as well as recently Boeing collaborations have been incredible eye-openers to me, showing me clearly where my industry still lacks.

Over 6 years of career and I have never worked with more professional, warm, kind and supportive people before as I have at NASA and Boeing.

Yeah, this industry is a bit fucked.

 

[Apeboy]

You would think game developers would be the most savvy when it comes to one of the most paramount rules of the internet.

Don’t feed the trolls.

Too many times I find it a bit too convenient that companies point the finger at the lunatic fringe to somehow lay responsibly at their feet for whatever reason. They’ve been a scapegoat in more than one instance. Some of the crap they allow to exist on their own forums baffle me. Studios could benefit by treating the trolls as trolls and not empowering them by giving them the time of day.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Everything he said is true and it's completely sad. I honestly can't think of another 'culture of fans' that are more toxic than 'gamers'.

You ever heard of soccer? Each weekend thousands of policemen have to protect citizens from so called fans here in Germany. And it is even worse in some other European countries. At gamescom on the other hand I have never seen someone kicking or beating others. And no policemen of course.

There are always idiots on the internet. Even if you are just posting pancake recipes. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be candid with public. Did "Iwata asks" hurt the image of him or the developers? No. If you explain things to people at least there's the chance they will understand instead of fabricating their own story.

 

[Freshmaker]

Just recently we had that thread w/someone calling Cuphead's sound design "abysmal" and even when Teeth came into the thread the OP largely ignored him.

People need to chill

I could see that perception if the poster had never paid attention to the source material Cuphead references.

I rather like how it makes everything feel just that much more off kilter.

 

[OceanBlue]

You ever heard of soccer? Each weekend thousands of policemen have to protect citizens from so called fans here in Germany. And it is even worse in some other European countries. At gamescom on the other hand I have never seen someone kicking or beating others. And no policemen of course.

There are always idiots on the internet. Even if you are just posting pancake recipes. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be candid with public. Did "Iwata asks" hurt the image of him or the developers? No. If you explain things to people at least there's the chance they will understand instead of fabricating their own story.

Why should developers bother instead of just not interacting with the online gaming community?

 

[Jacksinthe]

Why should developers bother instead of just not interacting with the online gaming community?

Because we still know there are a lot of good peeps out there. Not hard.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Truth.
I’ve become way more insular personally, especially here, after like 15 years it wears you down. And it’s gotten exponentially worse the past 2-3 years ::shrug::

It might just be nostalgia, but I'm pretty sure back in the days of uk.games.misc etc. we weren't such arseholes. We celebrated gaming.