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[GameAddict411]

I think the star of David is no longer just associated with just Judaism only. Zionism got in the mix, and I think it's fair to ban the symbol in that context considering the level of oppression we have seen from Israel to the Palestinians.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Uh, nah, if I was organizing an event and Neo Nazis wanted to be a part of my parade, I don't care if they are actively promoting anti-semitism at that event -- them being there would be me condoning their main message as a group.

Boy, Godwin's Law is all kinds of irrelevant in the Trump Era, eh?

 

[Rest]

1) The Star of David doesn't just represent Israel. It also represents Judaism

It also represents Jewry. It's a symbol that stands for a very broad group of people in several different ways.

 

[Mahonay]

Man, I grew up going to Chicago Pride parades. What is this dumb bullshit? Act like adults, not like entitled little children that pick and choose who is allowed play with you.

How the fuck did this not get shot down along the way?

 

[Quixzlizx]

I think the star of David is no longer just associated with just Judaism only. Zionism got in the mix, and I think it's fair to ban the symbol in that context considering the level of oppression we have seen from Israel to the Palestinians.

So we should definitely be banning the Muslim crescent, then. Considering the CONTEXT is LGBTQ rights.

 

[Sunster]

Yeah this is absolutely stupid for quite a few reasons:

1) The Star of David doesn't just represent Israel. It also represents Judaism

2) Even putting things in just the Israeli terms, the issue isn't ALL of Israel. The issue is the right-wing leadership in Israel, particularly Netanyahu.

3) A Pride Parade doesn't strike me as the right time to protest Israel considering that they actually have been decent on LGBTQ issues.

I think it's about solidarity with Palestine.

 

[EmiPrime]

Zionism is racism. Sounds like the marchers weren't expelled for their flags but for expressing racist beliefs.

 

[TestOfTide]

I think it's about solidarity with Palestine.

I get that, but that's not a reason to ban the Star of David.

AT MOST, that would a reason to not allow the Blue and White Israeli Flag, not the Star of David.

According to the article, it was rainbow flags that had the Star of David on them, so that's not the Israeli Flag.

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

Man, I grew up going to Chicago Pride parades. What is this dumb bullshit? Act like adults, not like entitled little children that pick and choose who is allowed play with you.

How the fuck did this not get shot down along the way?

Again, the actual Pride Parade isn't what's referenced in the article. This is a separate parade called the Dyke March, which took place on Saturday as opposed to the official parade which took place yesterday. The BBC article title (and, by extension, the title in OP) unfairly makes it seem like the official Parade banned the Star of David, which is absolutely not the case.

 

[Mahonay]

Zionism is racism. Sounds like the marchers weren't expelled for their flags but for expressing racist beliefs.

Outright banning the Star of David, in a parade that's supposed to be about acceptance and openness, is not the way to go about it.

I'm someone that tends to sympathize with Palestinians considering how abhorrently Israel behaves towards them (also fuck Bibi), but this is such a ridiculous thing for a Pride parade to be doing.

Again, the actual Pride Parade isn't what's referenced in the article. This is a separate parade called the Dyke March, which took place on Saturday as opposed to the official parade which took place yesterday. The BBC article title (and, by extension, the title in OP) unfairly makes it seem like the official Parade banned the Star of David, which is absolutely not the case.

God damn it I'm yelling about nothing.

 

[Sunster]

I get that, but that's not a reason to ban the Star of David.

AT MOST, that would a reason to not allow the Blue and White Israeli Flag, not the Star of David.

According to the article, it was rainbow flags that had the Star of David on them, so that's not the Israeli Flag.

yea, it was definitely misguided. just saying that's probably why they were protesting Israel regardless of their record on the LGBT

 

[phanphare]

Uh, nah, if I was organizing an event and Neo Nazis wanted to be a part of my parade, I don't care if they are actively promoting anti-semitism at that event -- them being there would be me condoning their main message as a group.

are you fucking kidding me with that comparison?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

There is no context in which the only kind of racism is systematic racism. Racism is racism and bigotry is bigotry.

Clearly this is a conversation over your head.

In any case still waiting for those receipts.

 

[Rest]

Clearly this is a conversation over your head.

Oh yes, belittlement is a way to win an argument.

 

[Beefy]

But people on GAF told me minorities can't be bigots.

No one said that at all

Oh yes, belittlement is a way to win an argument.

Says the dude that started with the post like you did...

--------------

Anyways this isn't on. We need to stick together.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Zionism is racism. Sounds like the marchers weren't expelled for their flags but for expressing racist beliefs.

Saying Jewdism or displaying Israeli heritage = Zionism is racism

 

[Mahonay]

But people on GAF told me minorities can't be bigots.

And people like you like to purposely antagonize with posts like this.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Oh yes, belittlement is a way to win an argument.

You've failed to produce any proof for your initial claim. You have no ground to criticize someone else's argument.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Zionism is racism. Sounds like the marchers weren't expelled for their flags but for expressing racist beliefs.

It is perfectly possible to both believe the state of Israel has the right to exist where it does and that Palestinians should be given full rights within the state.

 

[EmiPrime]

Saying Jewdism or displaying Israeli heritage = Zionism is racism

Read the damn thread buddy.

Those who got expelled expressed support for Zionism (a racist ideology that promotes exceptionalism and is responsible for ethnic cleansing and apartheid) and are members of a pink washing group with direct ties to the Israeli state.

This has bugger all to do with their flags.

It is perfectly possible to both believe the state of Israel has the right to exist where it does and that Palestinians should be given full rights within the state.

Yeah, shame about the people who got turfed out of their own homes and their land stolen to that end, huh.

 

[Jenov]

Uh, nah, if I was organizing an event and Neo Nazis wanted to be a part of my parade, I don't care if they are actively promoting anti-semitism at that event -- them being there would be me condoning their main message as a group.

jesus christ, what kind of a comparison is that

 

[Mahonay]

Uh, nah, if I was organizing an event and Neo Nazis wanted to be a part of my parade, I don't care if they are actively promoting anti-semitism at that event -- them being there would be me condoning their main message as a group.

 

[Skellig Gra]

The only grounds I could see for expelling that flag is that the rainbow flag is all inclusive already and they shouldn't dilute the message. Otherwise you are just eating your own with this "trigger" bullshit.

 

[squidyj]

http://www.forthepeoplecollective.org/against-zionism-in-solidarity-with-dyke-march-chicago/

On June 24, a group of marchers at Dyke March carrying rainbow flags with a blue six-pointed star* in the center were approached and engaged by both Palestinian and Jewish anti-Zionist participants of the march. These individuals wanted to find out more about the intention behind the flags, as they are often seen at Israeli pride parades, are widely used in pinkwashing efforts, and were visually reminiscent of the Israeli flag due to the color and placement of the star*.

During an extended conversation during which Dyke March organizers and Jewish anti-Zionist attendees engaged the group, the marchers repeatedly expressed support for Zionism. Because of this, they were asked to leave by DMC organizers, and eventually did so.

but yeah, it's just cuz they're jewish /s

 

[phanphare]

http://www.forthepeoplecollective.org/against-zionism-in-solidarity-with-dyke-march-chicago/


but yeah, it's just cuz they're jewish /s

*We recognize and affirm that the Star of David is a Jewish symbol and not inherently connected to Israel or Zionism. As Ronen Shnidman has pointed out, the Zionist movement adopted the Star of David as its emblem in 1897. The cooptation of the star of David by the state of Israel, is deeply saddening and makes it hard to distinguish between imperialist ideology and non-state, religious belief. We celebrate the reality that Jewish communities, including jews of color and Black jews, are part of our queer and trans communities.

where is the line drawn?

 

[HiiiLife]

It blows my mind when marginalized groups knock each other down like this

Sad, really.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

http://www.forthepeoplecollective.org/against-zionism-in-solidarity-with-dyke-march-chicago/





but yeah, it's just cuz they're jewish /s

🤔

 

[ECC]

Read the damn thread buddy.

Those who got expelled expressed support for Zionism (a racist ideology that promotes exceptionalism and is responsible for ethnic cleansing and apartheid) and are members of a pink washing group with direct ties to the Israeli state.

This has bugger all to do with their flags.



Yeah, shame about the people who got turfed out of their own homes and their land stolen to that end, huh.

If this has "bugger all" to do with their flags and everything to do with expressing support for Zionism then they should say exactly that.

 

[VendettaRed07]

So because some people who brought the flag were causing trouble, now no one who wants to bring it is allowed because they might be looking to cause trouble too.

Tell me how that isn't assuming people from Israel or gay Jews support Zionism

 

[SomedayTheFire]

If this has "bugger all" to do with their flags and everything to do with expressing support for Zionism then they should say exactly that.

They did.

So because some people who brought the flag were causing trouble, now no one who wants to bring it is allowed because they might be looking to cause trouble too.

Tell me how that isn't assuming people from Israel or gay Jews support Zionism

Whaaaaat? They aren't banned. Read the article.

 

[EmiPrime]

If this has "bugger all" to do with their flags and everything to do with expressing support for Zionism then they should say exactly that.

"In a social media post, the Dyke March said: "This decision was made after [the expelled marchers] repeatedly expressed support for Zionism during conversations with Dyke March Collective members.""

It's in the OP...

 

[Chainsawkitten]

So because some people who brought the flag were causing trouble, now no one who wants to bring it is allowed because they might be looking to cause trouble too.

Tell me how that isn't assuming people from Israel or gay Jews support Zionism

What makes you say that? The flag hasn't been banned. Specific individuals carrying the flag were asked to leave.

 

[Timeaisis]

This 100% in line with us or against us attitude is hurting so many liberal movements right now, I feel.

A person can be multi-faceted, that's allowed. Acceptance, I thought, was the whole point.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

this is exactly how hate rhetoric works. they were expelled for showing zionist beliefs not the flag, and they've gone and made it a story about the flag and how they were thrown out because of that for sympathy and people are falling over themselves to believe them and condemn others.

 

[Kisaya]

this is exactly how hate rhetoric works. they were expelled for showing zionist beliefs not the flag, and they've gone and made it a story about the flag and how they were thrown out because of that for sympathy and people are falling over themselves to believe them and condemn others.

If this is really what happened then fuck those guys. Good on the Dyke March for asking them to leave.

 

[EmiPrime]

So because some people who brought the flag were causing trouble, now no one who wants to bring it is allowed because they might be looking to cause trouble too.

Tell me how that isn't assuming people from Israel or gay Jews support Zionism

Do you want to respond to my reply to you or are you going to keep misrepresenting what this is about?

This 100% in line with us or against us attitude is killing so many liberal movements right now, I feel.

A person can be multi-faceted, that's allowed. Acceptance, I thought, was the whole point.

There's no grey area in ethnic cleansing, settlement building and apartheid.

 

[squidyj]

If this has "bugger all" to do with their flags and everything to do with expressing support for Zionism then they should say exactly that.

the one who's saying it's all about the flags and the star of david is the propagandist with "A Wider Bridge" that was kicked out.

 

[squidyj]

where is the line drawn?

where specific efforts at pinkwashing have gone on using the same symbology in the past and efforts at dialogue between parties reveal a likely similar motive in this instance?

 

[Lulubop]

Oh yes, belittlement is a way to win an argument.

Bro are you gonna link some post or what? Stop ducking.

 

[phanphare]

where specific efforts at pinkwashing have gone on using the same symbology in the past and efforts at dialogue between parties reveal a likely similar motive in this instance?

so the star of david is bad now because of that?

isn't that kind of fucked up?

 

[squidyj]

so the star of david is bad now because of that?

isn't that kind of fucked up?

you seem to be incapable of grasping context. The star of david wasn't banned, that specific form of flag raised questions about the people holding them due to a past history of use. Dialogue confirmed a zionist motive on the part of those people holding the flag. They were then asked to leave.

What part of this are you having trouble with?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

so the star of david is bad now because of that?

isn't that kind of fucked up?

Are you going to continue to completely ignore the fact they're zionists and we're expelled for being zionists and not the flag?

 

[shoelacer]

It's a regular pride march that is in no way restricted or favoring lesbians, or even women for that matters, so the choice of the dyke word is bizarre at best. Specially when they make tweets about butch lesbians having male privilege and upholding toxic masculinity. Seems like the "everyone but dykes" march.

Dyke March was primarily organized by lesbians and was initially intended for women only. It's not a 'regular' pride march - it usually takes place before the 'regular' pride marches. Not sure what's "bizarre" about lesbians describing themselves as dykes

 

[phanphare]

you seem to be incapable of grasping context. The star of david wasn't banned, that specific form of flag raised questions about the people holding them due to a past history of use. Dialogue confirmed a zionist motive on the part of those people holding the flag. They were then asked to leave.

What part of this are you having trouble with?

because the opening for this particular interaction was the star of david. if they had held the same beliefs but weren't carrying a star of david flag nothing would have happened.

not to mention that the person quoted in the article believed in a two-state solution with an independent palestine. isn't that a good thing?

 

[EmiPrime]

so the star of david is bad now because of that?

isn't that kind of fucked up?

It's not "bad", it just raises eyebrows in this context and those suspicions in this case were well founded. Blame the groups like the one in the OP with ties to the Israeli state who organise pink washing and are now acting like victims because they are persona non grata for being massive racists.

Educate yourself on pink washing, it's a well coordinated propaganda method used by Israel for a good 10 years and LGBT groups have gotten wise to it.

 

[azyless]

Dyke March was primarily organized by lesbians and was initially intended for women only. It's not a 'regular' pride march - it usually takes place before the 'regular' pride marches. Not sure what's "bizarre" about lesbians describing themselves as dykes

Maybe that's the origin of the march but that's not what it is now.

 

[squidyj]

http://awiderbridge.org/awbs-laurie-grauer-why-was-i-kicked-out-of-the-dyke-march/

“You have to leave because you are making people feel unsafe. You are putting them in danger by being here.” I was told this by Chicago’s Dyke Collective organizers, volunteers, and even other marchers. Why? Because I was carrying a rainbow flag with a single Jewish star.

That's her assertion, which she apparently draws from this exchange

“Are you asking anyone else to leave?”

“Yes, one other girl who was carrying a similar flag.”

“So you are asking the two people who are carrying Jewish Pride Flags to leave, and no one else?”

“Just you, the other girl, and the religious protestors.”

“So you are asking the two people carrying Pride flags with Jewish stars on them and the “God hates fags” contingent?”

“Yes.”

From this exchange she ascribes motive of the flag and somehow it has nothing to do with

“Are you a Zionist?” “This march is pro-Palestine and explicitly anti-Zionist.” Just as I did not hide my flag, I did not hide when asked point-blank, that, yes, I care about the State of Israel.

or her disingenuous framing of every fucking encounter she had. cmon now.

 

[Dali]

Sounds like they need new leadership if that's their position.
I also don't know why they're calling themselves "Dyke March".

How else you gonna get BBC to write "dyke" 15 times?

 

[phanphare]

It's not "bad", it just raises eyebrows in this context and those suspicions in this case were well founded. Blame the groups like the one in the OP with ties to the Israeli state who organise pink washing and are now acting like victims because they are persona non grata for being massive racists.

Educate yourself on pink washing, it's a well coordinated propaganda method used by Israel for a good 10 years and LGBT groups have gotten wise to it.

this makes sense

it still seems highly problematic though and I can't help but see it as cultural discrimination

it seems like even people with accepted beliefs in this context would have been harassed if they had been carrying a star of david flag

 

[Sai-kun]

Maybe that's the origin of the march but that's not what it is now.

are you from chicago/did you go to the march?