Support NeoGAF

[skit_data]

AFAIK he has more or less expressed that Live service games is a necessary evil if we want to keep getting big single player games.

I can't say I disagree on his take that Bungie was a pretty stupid acquisition as it stands atm, but selling it at this point would be pretty stupid.

Seems more like a knee jerk hot take due to the severity of how bad Bungie actually failed.

 

[RoadHazard]

I mean, Bungie hasn't really done anything since Sony bought them. We'll see.

 

[The artful mincer]

Fucking dumb destiny is the tightest controlling fps game.

It takes a laugh at cod
And cod is now owned by microsoft

Doom 2016 and Eternal?

 

[AGRacing]

The only thing bigger than Fortnite in 2023 is the amount of time and energy being wasted trying to be the next Fortnite.

I’d sell Bungie too if I couldn’t convince them to make a single player banger first.

 

[K2D]

$3 Billion for a, net. negative. gain. Over valued. Worth even less if they choose to sell..

Bum deal all around.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Wasn’t one of the reasons they bought bungie was for their expertise in monetizing live service games? they might not be creating the output we want in terms of games but behind-the-scenes they’re probably offering something Sony bought them for.

 

[AJUMP23]

Sony should sell Sony music and make Sony great again.

 

[sono]

$3.6B back,

They paid $3.6 Billion?
They waz robbed

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who knows in this industry. Who thought Fortnite would become a behemoth. Sometimes there's just luck.

Apex Legends shadow dropped and became a huge success. Crazy.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

One publisher having a bad year is no reason to sell it lmao.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

$3 Billion for a, net. negative. gain. Over valued. Worth even less if they choose to sell..

Bum deal all around.

Considering the company missed forecasts by 45%, laid off people, and delayed their games, there's no point in Sony even selling Bungie. Might as well roll the dice on a rebound.

That humongous $3.6 billion price is going to be worth well less than $1 billion now. Destiny is all eggs in one basket and it's failing fast.

Considering Sony has that clause saying they take over Bungie autonomy if their sales continue to drop a lot, dont sell. Just take the Destiny IP and give it to another studio and gut Bungie by firing the execs.

 

[DrFigs]

Wasn’t one of the reasons they bought bungie was for their expertise in monetizing live service games? they might not be creating the output we want in terms of games but behind-the-scenes they’re probably offering something Sony bought them for.

I'm sure that's one of the reasons. But people assume the worst, like it's all about monetization. But Sony doesn't want to spend 200 mil on a live service game that no one plays, and Bungie has expertise in creating live service games that have lasted a long time with pretty good user engagement.

 

[Robb]

That’s very premature. We haven’t even seen what’s to come from this strategy yet. Can’t say I’m a fan of it on paper, but who knows. If it sucks just let them fail spectacularly and learn a lesson instead.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

6 months to know what would be the course of action.

 

[DavJay]

Overpaid heavily and now sell back for a fraction of the original price paid. Sounds like plan from a good CEO.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The only thing bigger than Fortnite in 2023 is the amount of time and energy being wasted trying to be the next Fortnite.

What about all the successful multiplayer games that are not as big as Fortnite? It's like saying "SP devs shouldn't waste their time trying to make the next Tetris". Silly.

Who knows in this industry. Who thought Fortnite would become a behemoth. Sometimes there's just luck.

I suspect PlayStation and Bungie built their Live Service Center of Excellence because enough intelligent people realized good multiplayer games are just as predictable as good single player games. It's not luck.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

I think Bungie will end up being Sony’s RARE. If you know, you know.

 

[reinking]

Everyone screams that Sony has to find a COD replacement. They acquire a company that could help them achieve that. Everyone screams.

 

[MrA]

They should totally sell bungie to nintendo just for bungie to be the village bicycle

 

[Danjin44]

Here is the new strategy....

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I like the rethinking of live services as it's not my cup of tea.

And Bungie is also not a shadow of itself like other fallen studios but they need to show their next game. I hope Marathon is good.

 

[StereoVsn]

Great idea. Let's just hope Sony kept their receipt. They can just go back to the store where they bought Bungie and ask for a refund at the customer service department.

They should ask to see the manager. I have the manager’s picture right here.

 

[ReBurn]

$3.5 billion for a company who missed forecasts by 45%, laid off people already despite Bungie CEO saying a year ago they wouldnt cut jobs.

On the plus side, Sony has a great clause in the deal saying if they miss forecasts too much, they take over board control. In other words, the autonomy the Bungie exec PRed when the deal happened has a secret clause in there saying they arent so autonomous if the financials sink.

The ability to take over Bungie and dissolve the board isn't a performance-based clause or trigger in their deal. Bungie's independence is, and has been since Sony bought the company, at the sole discretion of Sony leadership. There's no scenario where purchasing 100% of a company doesn't give the purchaser full control over the assets and legal entity they just purchased. The person you buy something from can't tell you what you're allowed to do with it after you buy it.

 

[AGRacing]

What about all the successful multiplayer games that are not as big as Fortnite? It's like saying "SP devs shouldn't waste their time trying to make the next Tetris". Silly.

The market is saturated. The idea Sony would deprioritize their wheelhouse single player games to statistically light money on fire is pretty silly.

I played “the finals” the other night. After half the server just leaving in game 1 I imagined the pit I’d have in my stomach if I invested any money into it.

 

[JimboJones]

Colin can be stubborn and narrow-minded in his takes, but I see where he's coming from with this one.

I don't think selling Bungie is really worth it at this point. They need to pivot in another direction.



Colin only plays single-player Sony games and refuses to play anything on the Switch. He doesn't emulate, either. He said recently that he marveled at how good the FFIV Pixel Remaster looks on the Playstation Portal and I just felt so sorry for him.

The macroblocking adds to the retro already blocky pixelated charm.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The market is saturated.

No evidence to suggest as much. No logical reason to believe as much. Tons of wishful thinking though.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Colin drops a few more clinically insane takes regarding Bungie...



- Fabricates a list of "data" composing of 15 studios that were cheaper to buy than Bungie. The other two hosts fail to mention that his combined list never made a franchise as successful as Destiny, which continues to generate exceptional revenue.

- Fabricates a story of another buyer sniffing around which made Sony spend 3.6B dollars without doing their due diligence.

- Says Sony is no longer pursuing GAAS despite Sony continuing to pursue GAAS.

Why does this bother me so much? Is it time for Men_in_Boxes to look inward?

 

[Kaiserstark]

Colin drops a few more clinically insane takes regarding Bungie...



- Fabricates a list of "data" composing of 15 studios that were cheaper to buy than Bungie. The other two hosts fail to mention that his combined list never made a franchise as successful as Destiny, which continues to generate exceptional revenue.

- Fabricates a story of another buyer sniffing around which made Sony spend 3.6B dollars without doing their due diligence.

- Says Sony is no longer pursuing GAAS despite Sony continuing to pursue GAAS.

Why does this bother me so much? Is it time for Men_in_Boxes to look inward?

That were the 15 studios ?

 

[radewagon]

Well, yeah. They must have even more buyer's remorse than people that bought Watch Dogs at launch.

 

[semiconscious]

I say sell bungie to bungie for a half bil! win/win!...

 

[WhiteWaterM00se]

If Sony was serious, the only real buyer is Apple. Which makes perfect sense. Apple needs a first party developer. And Marathon was an Apple game once upon a time.

I doubt Sony wants to sell to MS.

 

[Perrott]

Colin drops a few more clinically insane takes regarding Bungie...



- Fabricates a list of "data" composing of 15 studios that were cheaper to buy than Bungie. The other two hosts fail to mention that his combined list never made a franchise as successful as Destiny, which continues to generate exceptional revenue.

- Fabricates a story of another buyer sniffing around which made Sony spend 3.6B dollars without doing their due diligence.

- Says Sony is no longer pursuing GAAS despite Sony continuing to pursue GAAS.

Why does this bother me so much? Is it time for Men_in_Boxes to look inward?

- Destiny (2) is dying, unable to draw new players into the game (because of the vaulted content) and clearly unable to sustain Bungie's business revenue-wise, hence the layoffs at the studio over the past year. Is that you definition of exceptional revenue?

- We know per the internal documents leaked during the FTC trial for the ABK acquisition that, at the same time as when Sony started to look into Bungie as a potential M&A target, Microsoft also had the company among their shortlist for future studio acquisitions. Netease, who invested 100M into Bungie pre-pandemic, were also buyers of studios during that same timeframe.

- Sony has cancelled half of their initial GaaS lineup by now and axed several multiplayer teams and studios working on GaaS games over at PlayStation Studios. The fact that they'll see Fairgame$, Concord, Horizon: Hunters Gathering, future Bungie efforts and whatever thing Jason Blundell is working on through doesn't mean that GaaS will remain their core strategy in terms of first-party development unlike what their graphs and projections from 2 years ago were suggesting.

You might be the clinically insane in this situation...

 

[Gojiira]

People forget just how much money Destiny actually makes, it might be struggling at the moment but thats not always the case. Who knows just how things will go when the final expansion and the new structure season drop.
And like has been said if Marathon is a huge hit well all this ire will be quickly forgotten.
Worth remembering that Sony will be breathing down their necks now and in general they are excellent at getting the most out of their studios so again it might turn around.
And nobody can deny how hype Destiny 3 could be when its finally announced especially if they truly embrace change and listen to the feedback.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

- Destiny (2) is dying, unable to draw new players into the game (because of the vaulted content) and clearly unable to sustain Bungie's business revenue-wise, hence the layoffs at the studio over the past year. Is that you definition of exceptional revenue?

If layoffs guide your logic that hard then Nintendo, PlayStation, Microsoft, Electronic Arts, Epic Games and other leaders in the field are all failing too because...layoffs.

Also, Bungies GDC talk from 2 years ago revealed that the game had more players at that time than at any point in the games history. The IGN story about missing projections by 45% in 2023 was kept intentionally vague for a reason. To catch people who don't require specifics in their clickbait.

- We know per the internal documents leaked during the FTC trial for the ABK acquisition that, at the same time as when Sony started to look into Bungie as a potential M&A target, Microsoft also had the company among their shortlist for future studio acquisitions. Netease, who invested 100M into Bungie pre-pandemic, were also buyers of studios during that same timeframe.

That's the nature of the game. To suggest due diligence wasn't carried out because rote sale patterns were taking place is completely laughable. His accusation is baseless. Meant to attract the types of people who don't mind baseless claims.

- Sony has cancelled half of their initial GaaS lineup by now and axed several multiplayer teams and studios working on GaaS games over at PlayStation Studios. The fact that they'll see Fairgame$, Concord, Horizon: Hunters Gathering, future Bungie efforts and whatever thing Jason Blundell is working on through doesn't mean that GaaS will remain their core strategy in terms of first-party development unlike what their graphs and projections from 2 years ago were suggesting.

Sony cancelled 5 of the original 12 Live Service games that were scheduled to be released before FY2025. They were always making more than 12. Hiroki Titoki said their mid and long term strategy around Live Service remains unchanged. Also, the graphs you reference weren't from 2 years ago. They were from 11 months ago (May 2023)

But why look at specifics when vague, fake narratives give us the warm fuzzies?

You might be the clinically insane in this situation...

Doesn't appear so.

 

[Perrott]

If layoffs guide your logic that hard then Nintendo, PlayStation, Microsoft, Electronic Arts, Epic Games and other leaders in the field are all failing too because...layoffs.

Also, Bungies GDC talk from 2 years ago revealed that the game had more players at that time than at any point in the games history. The IGN story about missing projections by 45% in 2023 was kept intentionally vague for a reason. To catch people who don't require specifics in their clickbait.

Stop moving goalposts. We know that the reason why Bungie had to lay people off at the end of 2023 was explicitly because they missed their revenue projections by 45%. And given that they're only riding on Destiny 2 at the moment, I'd say it's not in its healthiest state but rather exact opposite.

Sony cancelled 5 of the original 12 Live Service games that were scheduled to be released before FY2025. They were always making more than 12. Hiroki Titoki said their mid and long term strategy around Live Service remains unchanged. Also, the graphs you reference weren't from 2 years ago. They were from 11 months ago (May 2023)

But why look at specifics when vague, fake narratives give us the warm fuzzies?

For a topic that you're so passionate about, I'm surpised by how wrong you are on facts and the timing of things.

This slide is from May 2022, two years ago.

Jim Ryan says PlayStation has 2 unannounced live service games coming this fiscal year | VGC

Sony plans to have launched 12 such titles by 2025…

www.videogameschronicle.com

And you're also wrong in the amount of live-services cancelled, as they've cancelled more than five:

• Team-based hero shooter new IP, spiritual successor to Matter. (Bungie, cancelled 2022).
  • Not including among the 12 live-service franchises to be released by March 2026 as Bungie's acquisition wasn't finalized at the time, but still cancelled under Sony ownership post-acquisition).
• New IP (Deviation games, cancelled 2023).
• Shooter online new IP (Firesprite, cancelled 2022).
• Twisted Metal (Firesprite, cancelled 2024).
• Marvel's Spider-Man: The Great Web (Insomniac Games, cancelled 2023).
• Project Camden, new online IP (London Studio, cancelled 2024).
• The Last Of Us Online (Naughty Dog, cancelled 2023).

I'm ridiculously knowledgeable about Sony. Give up, you won't beat me in this game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Stop moving goalposts. We know that the reason why Bungie had to lay people off at the end of 2023 was explicitly because they missed their revenue projections by 45%. And given that they're only riding on Destiny 2 at the moment, I'd say it's not in its healthiest state but rather exact opposite.

Nintendo, Playstation, Microsoft, EA, Tencent, Riot Games, Epic, Bungie and many other industry leaders recently laid people off due to missing revenue projections. Bungie laid off 8% of it's staff, many of which were from non production positions, which is about industry average.

Gaming as a whole isn't in the healthiest state right now. Bungie is no exception, despite certain people trying to act like they are.

For a topic that you're so passionate about, I'm surpised by how wrong you are on facts and the timing of things.

This slide is from May 2022, two years ago.

This slide is from May 2023, 11 months ago.

Jim Ryan says PlayStation has 2 unannounced live service games coming this fiscal year | VGC

Sony plans to have launched 12 such titles by 2025…

www.videogameschronicle.com

And you're also wrong in the amount of live-services cancelled, as they've cancelled more than five:

• Team-based hero shooter new IP, spiritual successor to Matter. (Bungie, cancelled 2022).
  • Not including among the 12 live-service franchises to be released by March 2026 as Bungie's acquisition wasn't finalized at the time, but still cancelled under Sony ownership post-acquisition).
• New IP (Deviation games, cancelled 2023).
• Shooter online new IP (Firesprite, cancelled 2022).
• Twisted Metal (Firesprite, cancelled 2024).
• Marvel's Spider-Man: The Great Web (Insomniac Games, cancelled 2023).
• Project Camden, new online IP (London Studio, cancelled 2024).
• The Last Of Us Online (Naughty Dog, cancelled 2023).

Which of those were scheduled to release before FY2025? Also, why did Shuhei Yoshida say this last year?

Former PlayStation Boss Says They 'Cancel So Many Games'

Shuhei Yoshida, the previous president of PlayStation, explained canceling all these games was done to “save” the devs

kotaku.com

Cancelled games are only relevant when they're Live Service. Hiroki Titoki saying their mid and long term Live Service strategy remains unchanged isn't helpful when building the fake narrative.

I'm ridiculously knowledgeable about Sony. Give up, you won't beat me in this game.

You just got more knowledgeable about Sony thanks to one Men_in_Boxes. You're welcome.

The overall point remains ridiculous. You don't judge a 3.6B dollar investment before they release a single game unless you're used to making clownish points.

 

[RickMasters]

I like the rethinking of live services as it's not my cup of tea.

And Bungie is also not a shadow of itself like other fallen studios but they need to show their next game. I hope Marathon is good.

The problem is not that they are shadow of themselves but what they have morphed into. Vampires for your wallet!


Bungie can make a good game. But they wil a slow coke up with some good ways ( to their new bosses) to price gouge the shit out of their player base. Sony might like their ideas….. but will the players when they are paying out the ass for….. EVERYTHING…. Like in destiny 2…. Former destiny 2 die hard and long time halo player speaking here. While they are not a shadow of what made them great…. The cominaly they are today is not what made them great. The company that’s are today is an expert at predatory GAAS money extraction. This is why Sony bought them. At some point this is gonna sink in with people, I’m pretty sure. Anybody who played destiny for a long period of time will know exactly what the fuck I’m talking about. Sony bought them for their ability…. To do… what they do…. Looking forward to marathon all the same. But I already know it’s game I’m Gina look back and after 12 months wonder how I spent more than the cost of a years worth gamepass on it…….

 

[Perrott]

This slide is from May 2023, 11 months ago.

And this is a similar slide from exactly a year earlier, May 26th, 2022. Page 29 in the link below.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/pdf/2022/GNS_E.pdf

Which of those were scheduled to release before FY2025? Also, why did Shuhei Yoshida say this last year?

Former PlayStation Boss Says They 'Cancel So Many Games'

Shuhei Yoshida, the previous president of PlayStation, explained canceling all these games was done to “save” the devs

kotaku.com

Cancelled games are only relevant when they're Live Service. Hiroki Titoki saying their mid and long term Live Service strategy remains unchanged isn't helpful when building the fake narrative.

Probably most of them, only exception being Bungie's hero shooter, given the 12 live-service franchises target. You needed pretty much all those projects, which were all live-service titles, in order to get to that number.

Also, I don't care what Yoshida says, that's irrelevant. A cancelled project is a failure, either creative or managerial, regardless of the rationale behind it.

The overall point remains ridiculous. You don't judge a 3.6B dollar investment before they release a single game unless you're used to making clownish points.

I think we're allowed to judge a $3.6B deal after learning that the company's management is clueless, that they're bleeding talent, missing revenue forecasts, having projects cancelled or on ice, that they're more often than not at odds with their own fanbase, and that the only way this situation could be rectified at this point would be if PS Studios management takes over the Bungie board - which is ironic, given that Sony bought Bungie for their expertise, so that they could teach PS Studios how things should be done.

You just got more knowledgeable about Sony thanks to one Men_in_Boxes. You're welcome.

Not even in your dreams.

 

[RickMasters]

And this is a similar slide from exactly a year earlier, May 26th, 2022. Page 29 in the link below.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/pdf/2022/GNS_E.pdf

Probably most of them, only exception being Bungie's hero shooter, given the 12 live-service franchises target. You needed pretty much all those projects, which were all live-service titles, in order to get to that number.

Also, I don't care what Yoshida says, that's irrelevant. A cancelled project is a failure, either creative or managerial, regardless of the rationale behind it.

I think we're allowed to judge a $3.6B deal after learning that the company's management is clueless, that they're bleeding talent, missing revenue forecasts, having projects cancelled or on ice, that they're more often than not at odds with their own fanbase, and that the only way this situation could be rectified at this point would be if PS Studios management takes over the Bungie board - which is ironic, given that Sony bought Bungie for their expertise, so that they could teach PS Studios how things should be done.

Not even in your dreams.

Shiiiiiiit….. good points from both of you…. Tough call to be honest! Neither of you are wrong… that’s why it’s tough one !

 

[DrFigs]

Stop moving goalposts. We know that the reason why Bungie had to lay people off at the end of 2023 was explicitly because they missed their revenue projections by 45%. And given that they're only riding on Destiny 2 at the moment, I'd say it's not in its healthiest state but rather exact opposite.

For a topic that you're so passionate about, I'm surpised by how wrong you are on facts and the timing of things.

This slide is from May 2022, two years ago.

Jim Ryan says PlayStation has 2 unannounced live service games coming this fiscal year | VGC

Sony plans to have launched 12 such titles by 2025…

www.videogameschronicle.com

And you're also wrong in the amount of live-services cancelled, as they've cancelled more than five:

• Team-based hero shooter new IP, spiritual successor to Matter. (Bungie, cancelled 2022).
  • Not including among the 12 live-service franchises to be released by March 2026 as Bungie's acquisition wasn't finalized at the time, but still cancelled under Sony ownership post-acquisition).
• New IP (Deviation games, cancelled 2023).
• Shooter online new IP (Firesprite, cancelled 2022).
• Twisted Metal (Firesprite, cancelled 2024).
• Marvel's Spider-Man: The Great Web (Insomniac Games, cancelled 2023).
• Project Camden, new online IP (London Studio, cancelled 2024).
• The Last Of Us Online (Naughty Dog, cancelled 2023).

I'm ridiculously knowledgeable about Sony. Give up, you won't beat me in this game.

Do you understand that games get cancelled early in development all the time. And that this is not exclusive to live service games. Or that it would have been extremely dumb for Sony to publish 69 multiplayer games in the span of 5 years like they originally wanted to.

 

[Perrott]

Do you understand that games get cancelled early in development all the time. And that this is not exclusive to live service games. Or that it would have been extremely dumb for Sony to publish 69 multiplayer games in the span of 5 years like they originally wanted to.

These games weren't cancelled in "early development", they weren't 3-month prototypes/pitches.

• The Last Of Us Online was cancelled after over three years of development as a standalone title plus two years as The Last Of Us Part II's multiplayer.
• Bungie's team-based hero shooter was cancelled after two years of development, following the cancellation of its predecessor, Matter, after another two years in development.
• Deviation's game was cancelled after three years in development.
• London Studio's new IP was cancelled after three years in development.
• Twisted Metal was cancelled two years over of development at Firesprite, following at least a year in development at Lucid.
• Insomniac's Marvel's Spider-Man: The Great Web was cancelled after a year and a half in development, probably same as Firesprite's shooter, which met its demise due to managerial and talent bleed issues over at the studio.

And even if games do in general get cancelled all the time, in this situation it actually does matter that these games got cancelled because Sony actually PROMISED their investors that they'd put out a certain amount of live-service games as part of their future strategy.

Because of all these cancellations, Sony's strategy is weakened, which in turn (and in combination with other recent bad news such as their failure in achieving their PS5 sales forecast for the FY) results in a decline in stock value.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

And this is a similar slide from exactly a year earlier, May 26th, 2022. Page 29 in the link below.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/pdf/2022/GNS_E.pdf

And 12 months AFTER that slide, they upped their investment into Live Service from 55% to 60%.

Probably most of them, only exception being Bungie's hero shooter, given the 12 live-service franchises target. You needed pretty much all those projects, which were all live-service titles, in order to get to that number.

Also, I don't care what Yoshida says, that's irrelevant. A cancelled project is a failure, either creative or managerial, regardless of the rationale behind it.

We don't disagree there. What we disagree about is the idea that a cancelled projects informs us of a change in overall direction. SP games are cancelled all the time according to Sony, and fake narratives aren't built around that fact. They're only fabricated when Live Service games are cancelled.

But again, keep dodging Hiroki Titokis quote about their mid and long term strategy around Live Service remaining unchanged. Rather, listen to Colin Moriarty if you prefer his word over Titokis for some reason.

I think we're allowed to judge a $3.6B deal after learning that the company's management is clueless, that they're bleeding talent, missing revenue forecasts, having projects cancelled or on ice, that they're more often than not at odds with their own fanbase, and that the only way this situation could be rectified at this point would be if PS Studios management takes over the Bungie board - which is ironic, given that Sony bought Bungie for their expertise, so that they could teach PS Studios how things should be done.

Nah, gamers are always the last to know. Sony has a high priced team that specialize in kicking the tires on M&A projects. Sony isn't spending 3.6B without doing serious homework. Gamers listen to clickbait fake journalism from IGN.

Judging a 3.6B dollar acquisition that early is like judging an NFL draft pick based on the suit he wears to go on stage with Roger Goodell after his name is called. Pure fantasy.

Not even in your dreams.

I'll trust PlayStation over IGN. You do you though.

 

[lh032]

take over bungie , dont be a coward sony.

 

[Perrott]

And 12 months AFTER that slide, they upped their investment into Live Service from 55% to 60%.

They didn't up their investment, what happened is that one year they didn't own Bungie (a thousand people live-service studio) and the next one, they did. Remember that the acquisition wasn't finalized until July 2022.

Nah, gamers are always the last to know. Sony has a high priced team that specialize in kicking the tires on M&A projects. Sony isn't spending 3.6B without doing serious homework. Gamers listen to clickbait fake journalism from IGN.

PlayStation has literally killed entire platforms of their own and some other times lost billions of dollars by making Don Mattrick level of bad decisions, so I wouldn't say they judgment is infallible. And I guess that's what all this discussion comes down to.

We both have made our points pretty clear by now. We'll see what's the latest they have to say about these various topics during their IR day in May.

 

[RickMasters]

And this is a similar slide from exactly a year earlier, May 26th, 2022. Page 29 in the link below.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/pdf/2022/GNS_E.pdf

Probably most of them, only exception being Bungie's hero shooter, given the 12 live-service franchises target. You needed pretty much all those projects, which were all live-service titles, in order to get to that number.

Also, I don't care what Yoshida says, that's irrelevant. A cancelled project is a failure, either creative or managerial, regardless of the rationale behind it.

I think we're allowed to judge a $3.6B deal after learning that the company's management is clueless, that they're bleeding talent, missing revenue forecasts, having projects cancelled or on ice, that they're more often than not at odds with their own fanbase, and that the only way this situation could be rectified at this point would be if PS Studios management takes over the Bungie board - which is ironic, given that Sony bought Bungie for their expertise, so that they could teach PS Studios how things should be done.

Not even in your dreams.

As much as ‘ we’ might like to judge so readily…. We didn’t have to make that judgement with 3,6 Bn dollars either.


I think I just have to refer to back to my time with destiny and the money I spent on that game before leaving it alone….. it’s very good at getting you spend money if you take an interest in it….. I’m willing to beat Sony wanted THAT…… but if I’m going buy a lot of commenta on red on the gaf…. GAAS is a bad idea for Sony…. But Sony are over there saying they need this money going forward. And they acquired bungie to show their other teams how to ‘destinyfy’ their games…. Which if I was to go by PS GAF users is not what they want…. But sony swear they need this money.



I don’t want to being up MS here but phil is right about identifying Gen Z habits. Even Sony has to prepare for the needs and wants of who is gonna buy and play their games in the next 30 years. It won’t be us when we all got arthritis and grandkids…….. but the industry itself must Atleast anticipate how Tommorow as gamers are gonna pay to play.



You and the other guy had good points but I still think that as a whole we should be aware of the generations of games that are coming of age now and how that influence and impact what devs make and how they distribute it. We should be aware that devs are trying to figure out what people who are not in that typical console age bracket of 25-35 want. Because Tommorow a gamers re aged 5-16 right now and they don’t fuck with consoles… AAA games….. but live tablets and Spend stupid money on MTX. It used to be sell a console and get back money selling games…. Even Sony and the likes of square complainthatvitvaint enough anymore….. we can’t just act like they are making this shotgun and it’s all hunky-dooree. Because for them it ain’t. As ha ears we can be so dismissive of the champlenwges of the jag dust when we are playing that AAA in 4K…. ‘I don’t see the problem…. Look at this game’ …… nobody thinks what it costs.. or how long they can keep that up. The one thing I’ll agree with Colin on ( and like others for the record… I think his view is outdated… it’s a I’ve throwback to the Early 2000s… like when old school heads with rap was still like the 90s… simply ain’t like that no more… the game has changed… MS knows it for sure… Sony are catching on….Nintendoknow but are lucky enough to be different enough that they can stand out for a gen or two more before they have to actually. But even their core audience( let’s face it most likely long time nintendo fans… but the family friendly image appeals to so much more) are getting older. And who they actually target are all playing tablet games ( kids) are on tablets playing these GAAS games.



I don’t play many gas’s games myself, but when I observe how youngsters play…. They ain’t like is in the 80s and 90s man….. me or you might play a chrono trigger…. These kids with their short attempt spans, though?…. Bro, they just want a new skin for their avatar. They don’t wan read lines uoinnlikes of text… they don’t wanna take turns doing attacks. They do t care about a million side quests. They don’t have time for it. Whether you mention MS, Sony or some other big 3P pub they all know this are gearing for that generation not ours.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Embracer has stated they won't stop acquisitions. That's a perfect match for Bungie. I'd sell before it's too late and Sony lays off 300 people and they start whining about toxic culture, harassment, and whatnot.

 

[Brigandier]

Sony's worst acquisition by far, Sony said that they would have a hands off approach with Bungie but they need to rethink that and take over that studio big time as Bungie are imo just trouble.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

They didn't up their investment, what happened is that one year they didn't own Bungie (a thousand people live-service studio) and the next one, they did. Remember that the acquisition wasn't finalized until July 2022.

So buying Bingie, a Live Service developer, was NOT an increase in Live Service investment.

PlayStation has literally killed entire platforms of their own and some other times lost billions of dollars by making Don Mattrick level of bad decisions, so I wouldn't say they judgment is infallible. And I guess that's what all this discussion comes down to.

No one said they're infallible. We're comparing the expertise of one of the most historically successful game companies on planet earth to gamers who prefer SP games.

Call me crazy, but I think PlayStations M&A team knows more about Bungie than Colin Moriarty.

We both have made our points pretty clear by now. We'll see what's the latest they have to say about these various topics during their IR day in May.

This is true.

One last thing though. I've brought up Hiroki Titokis quote about their Live Service strategy remaining unchanged now and, for some reason, you failed to address it. Is it because it hurts the narrative?

 

[IAmRei]

Or keep it, get rid of execs as soon as their contracts are done and bench those with bad influence - decisions.
There is definitely talent in Bungie. Even though i am not a fan of the game itself, the moment to moment and shooting mechanics are very good.
Maybe they could involve them with Killzone?

They surely don't need to sell them, but they need to get rid of the high salary execs and cut off their bonuses.

New Killzone? That could be a blast <3
Maybe also Socom?

 

[diffusionx]

Sony's worst acquisition by far, Sony said that they would have a hands off approach with Bungie but they need to rethink that and take over that studio big time as Bungie are imo just trouble.

It’s in the contract, if Bungie doesn’t hit certain milestones Sony has the right to intervene.

But yea it seems like they bought at the worst time to buy this stupid company.