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[Parallax Scroll]

One thing that I find pretty fascinating is the world of competitive videogaming. Several types of games have professional leagues or record-keeping organizations. And most of the competitive gaming communitites that I've seen have a superstar player or two who gets a decent amount of media attention, prize money, and endorsements. Tournaments or competitions are often broadcast on TV or online, so you can watch it like a spectator sport. Honestly, watching some of these competitions is far more entertaining than I would expect. They're generally for games that I've played, but I'm no good at. And once you get to know the people in that particular game community, watching becomes even more fun since you can pick a favorite player to root for.

The major competitive gaming communities I'm familiar with include:

1. The fighting game community, particularly the yearly Evo tournament. Elite players in this community include Justin Wong and Daigo Umehara.

2. Twin Galaxies and the tracking of high scores on classic arcade games. Billy Mitchell and Steve Wiebe are well-known members of this community.

3. First person shooter competitions such as the ones in Major League Gaming. I'm not as familiar with this one, but fatal1ty is the most famous player here.

4. The Korean Starcraft community. Now that gomtv.net broadcasts games in English, it's much easier to follow this scene. There are a lot of star players here such as Boxer, Flash, and Jaedong.

I guess the speed running community would be another one?

I'm not entirely sure why I get so much entertainment from watching people play videogames that I'm no good at. But I do.

This thread is for any discussion related to competitive gaming from the spectator's perspective. But if any gaffers actually compete in these things, I'd like to hear your perspective too.

 

[Beowulf28]

They used to broadcast MLG halo 2 tournaments on USA which was pretty cool but I would have like to see them televise some other games.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

I used to be very familiar with the Brazilian Pump it Up scene, the Pokemon scene and also a little bit with the local fighting scene

I follow some videos of Evo on youtube, but I pretty much grew out of it eventually.

It's not weird at all, I really liked going to tournaments for these three games, and enjoyed myself quite a lot.

I've played Bogeymanz better than anything in the other games, but I quite enjoyed watching tournaments too.

 

[vocab]

Competitive console fps are boring to watch. I just don't get impressed at all. Yay, the game helped you auto aim at that guy. I am so impressed by your skill!

PC Fps are way more intense and way more satisfying to watch. You know when someone is so much better or outplaying the other person/team. Quake, CS 1.6, and even no name games like Painkiller were fucking some of the greatest gaming memories of spectating. Just seeing reaction shots, juggles, insane 1 shots being made at crazy speeds gets me pumped and makes me want to play the game. That is why those games are both good to play, and fun to watch.

Fighting games are also another great spectator sport. SFIV is kind of boring to watch, but games like CVS2, ST, 3S, and even broken ass Marvel is fun as hell to watch.

 

[Oreoleo]

Spectating video games seems kinda stupid to me. But I guess if you're really really hardcore into a game I could see the intrigue of watching top-tier players competing against each other(SF4, MLG Halo for example). But like, G4 has (Or had? fuck if I ever watch G4) shows of nobodies competing in random games. That's retarded. I could get into something like PAX's Omegathon though, where the crowd and environment of being there would make it exciting to watch. Generally speaking though, I'd rather play a game than watch it get played.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I love watching high-level fighting game competition.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I suppose we can use this thread to help people find where they can spectate some of these games. For starters, http://www.gomtv.net/ is the place I go for English-commentary Starcraft matches. They have several seasons of the Averatec Intel Classic tournament available to watch, and the announcer, Tasteless, is very good at what he does.

 

[Johnas]

I guess the speed running community would be another one?

Speed Demos Archive contains various speed runs for all different types of games. You'd be surprised at some of the random titles people decide to speedrun.

www.speeddemosarchive.com

 

[polg]

I loved that Tekken DR on PS3 allowed to watch other matches while waiting. I'd definitively watch other fighting games, not sure about other genres

 

[Red Scarlet]

I enjoy watching, so much so that it was my tag at metroid2002.

I know there's a L4D tournement thing going, but I can't find vids that work. If it's a game I enjoy, I don't mind watching it whatever it is.

 

[Tashi]

http://www.mlgpro.com/

MLG (Major League Gaming) has grown in popularity over the past few years. They just had a tournament in Dallax, Texas this past weekend. Teams compete in Halo 3, Gears of War 2 and World of Warcraft. They also have online tournaments through Gamebattles for lots of other games. Some of teams have received 1 Million dollar multi-year contracts and the Halo 3 teams can win 20,000$ at each event for first place and 100,000$ at the championships that are usually held in Las Vegas. Halo is really what made MLG what it is today. However, they are picking up different games and it's good to see that. I fully see Modern Warefare 2 becoming part of the "MLG Pro Circuit" They have pretty good sponsors in Stride Gum, Dr. Pepper and a partnership with ESPN. I don't know when we'll start to see MLG highlights on SportsCenter but I think it could happen. It's pretty legit.

I actually really enjoy watching the online stream that MLG puts up of the events. They actually have commentators and for the most part they do a good job. I'm a really big Halo fan so watching the best players in the world play is a nice treat.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Spectating video games seems kinda stupid to me. But I guess if you're really really hardcore into a game I could see the intrigue of watching top-tier players competing against each other(SF4, MLG Halo for example). But like, G4 has (Or had? fuck if I ever watch G4) shows of nobodies competing in random games. That's retarded. I could get into something like PAX's Omegathon though, where the crowd and environment of being there would make it exciting to watch. Generally speaking though, I'd rather play a game than watch it get played.

For me, part of it is the people. Watching 2 random dudes play Starcraft is one thing, but watching Flash and Jaedong going at it is much more exciting.

 

[Opiate]

A huge portion fo the problem is that the games change. We can't have different leageus with different gam es being played and so forth.

Poker is quite popular, I have no doubt video games could be too. The problem is that the rules of the video game aren't easily communicable when the game they're actually playing changes every year.

We need something like Starcraft or WoW which seem to have longer lifespans. Halo/UT don't work as well because they release iterations too quickly. We need a game that can continue to be played 5-10 years after its release and maintains its "official pro game" status during the full duration.

Edit: Just to be clear, it doesn't have to be the MMO/RTS genres, those are incidental. The point is that the game has to have deliberate staying power. Pick a game, and stick with it.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

A huge portion fo the problem is that the games change. We can't have different leageus with different gam es being played and so forth.

Poker is quite popular, I have no doubt video games could be too. The problem is that the rules of the video game aren't easily communicable when the game they're actually playing changes every year.

We need something like Starcraft or WoW which seem to have longer lifespans. Halo/UT don't work as well because they release iterations too quickly. We need a game that can continue to be played 5-10 years after its release and maintains its "official pro game" status during the full duration.

Starcraft, Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Super Street Fighter II Turbo are all pretty old, and they've all got thriving competitive communities.

 

[Grayman]

A huge portion fo the problem is that the games change. We can't have different leageus with different gam es being played and so forth.

Poker is quite popular, I have no doubt video games could be too. The problem is that the rules of the video game aren't easily communicable when the game they're actually playing changes every year.

We need something like Starcraft or WoW which seem to have longer lifespans. Halo/UT don't work as well because they release iterations too quickly. We need a game that can continue to be played 5-10 years after its release and maintains its "official pro game" status during the full duration.

The problem with that though is that sponsorship from hardware companies goes away. The GPU and CPU guys push more money for Quake 4s, Painkillers, and CS Sources instead of the games that were established.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I have watched hundreds of Enemy Territory matches, admined many too. Not in a long while though, but it was fun seeing friends and others play on rather high levels for money and stuff.

 

[Kade]

I can only watch demos/replays because I hate the editing of televised and commentated eSports. They switch camera angles, chop the clips, etc. It's annoying to watch. I love the RTS style and SourceTV style where I can just switch from player to play or fly around the map.

 

[Opiate]

Starcraft, Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Super Street Fighter II Turbo are all pretty old, and they've all got thriving competitive communities.

Yes, excellent examples.

The problem with that though is that sponsorship from hardware companies goes away. The GPU and CPU guys push more money for Quake 4s, Painkillers, and CS Sources instead of the games that were established.

Good point.

 

[Subitai]

I follow Starcraft, Warcraft, and Evo. Seeing the insane crap these guys can do I find extremely entertaining.

 

[Oreoleo]

SourceTV

Is this something included in the Source base or do I have to download separately? If there's one thing I could get into watching, it's competitive TF2.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I follow Starcraft, Warcraft, and Evo. Seeing the insane crap these guys can do I find extremely entertaining.

That's another thing I enjoy about it. I can watch what tricks these guys use, and generally there are detailed articles and forum threads that analyze what these guys are doing to a crazy level of detail. So for a handful of games (mainly Marvel and Starcraft) I know a ton about the strategies involved and how to win, but I've never mastered implementing those techniques myself.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Major League Gaming does it right IMO. I watch every tournament through their online stream. Feels like your watching a real braodcast.

 

[jett]

Evo and those starcraft matches blizzard puts out are very entertaining.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I think Fighting Games have the most marketting promise IMO. Two people in a ring fighting.....Everyone can relate on that level alone.

FPS' and Shooters are too much to keep up with in terms of broadcasting and making look exciting, specially watching team matches.

Not a big fan of RTS' so dont wanna really comment.

 

[Kade]

Is this something included in the Source base or do I have to download separately? If there's one thing I could get into watching, it's competitive TF2.

It's within Source, but it only works on matches that are currently live. You'll be a few rounds or minutes behind but you can fly around the map or focus on one players perspective, which is way better than watching demos.

 

[Darklord]

starcraft matches blizzard puts out are very entertaining.

Yeah, I watched one when blizzcon was on and it was strangely interesting.

 

[Geneijin]

I love watching Guilty Gear in particular even though I suck and never committed to a stick. The Korean Starcraft scene is insanely fun to watch too. Reminds me of my childhood.

http://mac-himeji.sytes.net/ was where I caught some streams of GG:AC this year and last.

 

[Kaako]

I could watch SF4 tournaments like SBO and Evo all day. No joke.

 

[JCX]

I guess I'm the opposite of the OP. I find watching other people play video games to be boring for the most part. It is good for picking up tricks for your own game, but nothing I'd like to watch on the regular.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

So, no interest in the Twin Galaxies/high score community? It's probably cause I just watched King of Kong recently, but I'm finding that community pretty fascinating as well. I think Billy Mitchell and Mr. Awesome are more interesting characters than anyone else in competitive gaming.

Oh, and that referee dude, Walter Day. Dude wears a ref jersey and has a Santa Claus beard. You can't make this shit up.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Competitive RTS-any RTS really-works terrific as a spectator sport. Games have clearly defined phases, are very competitive, and feature a wide enough array of potential gambits and tactics that no two games play out exactly the same.

Starcraft is of course the champion of this, but Warcraft 3 (go on youtube and look for Moon's games), Company of Heroes, and Age of Empires all make for good watching. I like to queue up a few games in the evening during my exercise regiment.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Competitive RTS-any RTS really-works terrific as a spectator sport. Games have clearly defined phases, are very competitive, and feature a wide enough array of potential gambits and tactics that no two games play out exactly the same.

Starcraft is of course the champion of this, but Warcraft 3 (go on youtube and look for Moon's games), Company of Heroes, and Age of Empires all make for good watching. I like to queue up a few games in the evening during my exercise regiment.

Yep. With commentary in a language you can understand, Starcraft matches can be quite compelling. I don't even need to be an expert player, since the announcers make it easy to follow the subtleties of what is going on.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

Fighting games and the occasional RTS are the only games I ever care to watch played competitively. It's fun sometimes to watch a great SF4 or BlazBlue player go at it, but people continue to massively overestimate how fetching it is for the average person. I think gaming leagues will eventually find and settle into a niche but there's no way gaming is going to find mainstream support and have a place in Sports Center.

 

[twofold]

I personally love 1v1 fps duelling. Quake Live is producing some damn good matches, with ESLTV covering the matches in great style.

Loads of vids here, if anyone's interested- http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod_search/?q=quake&page=1.

The top video from Gamescom has two former Quake champions (2gd and Fatal1ty) doing commentary and they do a good job explaining what sort of strategy both players are employing and how different maps are played. Well worth checking out.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I enjoy watching, so much so that it was my tag at metroid2002.

I know there's a L4D tournement thing going, but I can't find vids that work. If it's a game I enjoy, I don't mind watching it whatever it is.

One reason I didn't list the speed running scene is because it seems to lack the drama of some of these other communities. I like learning about the people, and seeing all the rivalries and the drama between them. Speed running always seemed more straightforward to me, but maybe I'm missing something. You're probably gaf's most prominent member of that community; can you tell us anything interesting about it?

 

[Acid08]

Competitive console fps are boring to watch. I just don't get impressed at all. Yay, the game helped you auto aim at that guy. I am so impressed by your skill!

PC Fps are way more intense and way more satisfying to watch. You know when someone is so much better or outplaying the other person/team. Quake, CS 1.6, and even no name games like Painkiller were fucking some of the greatest gaming memories of spectating. Just seeing reaction shots, juggles, insane 1 shots being made at crazy speeds gets me pumped and makes me want to play the game. That is why those games are both good to play, and fun to watch.

Fighting games are also another great spectator sport. SFIV is kind of boring to watch, but games like CVS2, ST, 3S, and even broken ass Marvel is fun as hell to watch.

You troll consoles in every single thread I've seen you post in. u mad?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Yep. With commentary in a language you can understand, Starcraft matches can be quite compelling. I don't even need to be an expert player, since the announcers make it easy to follow the subtleties of what is going on.

At some point you learn the game well enough that even foreign language commentary is fine. I watch live Korean SC streams regularly and, well, Fantasy massing vultures or Flash turtling is pretty easy to understand regardless of the language of the commentary.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Competitive console fps are boring to watch. I just don't get impressed at all. Yay, the game helped you auto aim at that guy. I am so impressed by your skill!

PC Fps are way more intense and way more satisfying to watch. You know when someone is so much better or outplaying the other person/team. Quake, CS 1.6, and even no name games like Painkiller were fucking some of the greatest gaming memories of spectating. Just seeing reaction shots, juggles, insane 1 shots being made at crazy speeds gets me pumped and makes me want to play the game. That is why those games are both good to play, and fun to watch.

Fighting games are also another great spectator sport. SFIV is kind of boring to watch, but games like CVS2, ST, 3S, and even broken ass Marvel is fun as hell to watch.

You can juggle in first person shooters?

 

[Red Scarlet]

One reason I didn't list the speed running scene is because it seems to lack the drama of some of these other communities. I like learning about the people, and seeing all the rivalries and the drama between them. Speed running always seemed more straightforward to me, but maybe I'm missing something. You're probably gaf's most prominent member of that community; can you tell us anything interesting about it?

I don't really know. I know there was a rivalry between Smokey and myself for SM, but that stopped afaik when we finished out last things, and I've since been out of the whole 'scene' for about 3 years now. All I know is that SDA was just Quake videos until the host guy (Radix) decided to put his Metroid Prime speed run up there, then one of my SM videos was too much for metroid2002 to handle download-wise, so SDA started hosting speedruns of whatever after that.

 

[vocab]

You troll consoles in every single thread I've seen you post in. u mad?

What has that got to do with competitive FPS's? You sad?

You can juggle in first person shooters?

Yes. Any game with splash damage and a rocket launcher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X32Azk8OzQ&feature=channel_page This is me back when Quake 4 was released and fresh. Shitty game, but that's where the community was. Btw the game is not that slow, it's just slowed down due to shitty fraps, and piss poor video editing skills

 

[Teknopathetic]

"You can juggle in first person shooters?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6weJAm_SI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKtLvedjBnE


As for the topic, I love watching (good) competitive sports. RTSs as Frag mentioned are great to watch. Fighting games, of course. *Duel* FPSs are also really great fun to watch. Most other genres, not so much.

 

[Feel the Swift]

Halo 3 is probably my favorite multiplayer game of this generation. I've played the game to death, and I've also watched pro players dominate in this game. MLG is so exciting to watch and I love rooting for my team (Final Boss; unfortunately they haven't been playing too hot). I went to MLG Columbus this year and it was pretty fantastic. All of the other events I have watched through the live stream. Some people would rather be playing the actual game than be watching other people play it, but in this case I disagree. It's so awesome to see a pro pull off a sick no-scope or a triple kill, frenzy, etc. Maybe I just have a passion for the game. :lol

 

[Grayman]

I think Fighting Games have the most marketting promise IMO. Two people in a ring fighting.....Everyone can relate on that level alone.

FPS' and Shooters are too much to keep up with in terms of broadcasting and making look exciting, specially watching team matches.

Not a big fan of RTS' so dont wanna really comment.

Mechanically though the shooters are easy to understand because there are not unique moves, combos, tactics, supers, ultras, and such per character.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Mechanically though the shooters are easy to understand because there are not unique moves, combos, tactics, supers, ultras, and such per character."


None of that matters because everyone can understand two guys hitting each other and a life bar depleting. Also it's easier to follow because all the action happens on one screen.

And even if you don't understand the tactics, you can definitely still understand when something big just happened.

 

[Acid08]

What has that got to do with competitive FPS's? You sad?

I'm sad that you feel the need to troll consoles while no one in here was trolling PC's.

 

[vocab]

"Mechanically though the shooters are easy to understand because there are not unique moves, combos, tactics, supers, ultras, and such per character."


None of that matters because everyone can understand two guys hitting each other and a life bar depleting. Also it's easier to follow because all the action happens on one screen.

Pretty much. The only way to even get a good sense of perspective in duel FPS or even RTS is to have two screens for each player. It's really hard to stay focused on everything at the same time. Fighting games being on one screen is probably the best thing about the genre.

I'm sad that you feel the need to troll consoles while no one in here was trolling PC's.

Not trolling consoles. I got nothing against them. I just think console FPS are a joke, and analog controllers cripple the competitive nature for some of these games. Every thing in console fps feel like they are watered down to put every one on the same playing field, when it should be based on a skill, not because the controller aimed for you,. Sorry if I come off that way.

 

[THE Caffeinated]

EVO was pretty awesome to watch.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

"Mechanically though the shooters are easy to understand because there are not unique moves, combos, tactics, supers, ultras, and such per character."


None of that matters because everyone can understand two guys hitting each other and a life bar depleting. Also it's easier to follow because all the action happens on one screen.

And even if you don't understand the tactics, you can definitely still understand when something big just happened.

The bolded is one reason I've never gotten into spectating first person shooters. With fighting games it's all on one screen. With FPS you can have the referee/spectator click around and show you whatever's interesting at that moment. I think that works really well.

As for juggling with rockets, that makes sense. I never got serious into Quake 3 or any other Quake... those games are hardcore as shit.

 

[TheExodu5]

lol MLG. It's a really low key competition that is brought into the spotlight due to a push onto broadcast media. The whole thing just seems like one big advertisement push.

CPL and WCG were the biggest competitions a few years back. Not sure if CPL is still around though.

As much as PC FPS are a lot more interesting to watch than the old boring console FPS, RTS and fighting games are a hell of a lot more fun to watch than either because the action is much more easily summarized and absorbed.

 

[vocab]

lol MLG. It's a really low key competition that is brought into the spotlight due to a push onto broadcast media.

CPL and WCG were the biggest competitions a few years back. Not sure if CPL is still around though.

CPL is dead in the US and their reputation is forever tarnished because Munoz didn't pay the players who won. CPL is still alive, but some middle east company bought it, and I still think Munoz has something to do with the company. CPL China should be happening soon, but no gives a shit about it.