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[vertopci]

L4D PC version is surprisingly entertaining to watch since its so different from other FPS.

 

[Grayman]

This to infinity. CPMA as well for pro players.

CPMA supports at least 3 game types.
CPM: default, the good one. air control, tiered armor protection
VQ3: base q3 but with framerate independent physics
CQ3: improved Q3 that Quake Live is similar to

CPM would be great for everyone if it had the players.

Quake Live has most of what was needed from CPMA to play "Quake 3" now(custom bright skins, autoaction, timeouts, selective nomip, etc)

 

[AdventureRacing]

I'm fucking leaps and bounds over the average console player. I played at stupidly high levels in Quake, CS, and UT. Don't preach to me like some average 12 year old kid.

Games like COD4, Gears and Halo 3 have elements that eliminate that huge skill gap that is present on PC games and even fighting games. The skill gap still exists from a knowledge and mind game level, but it's not something that separates a huge portion of the community like other competitive games have. Regenerating health, aim assist, and analog controller. The playing field is so even, and the average person can kill you without even trying because the game is on their side 99% of the time. I'm not saying these are bad games, and no one should play them, but from a competitive point of view, these games on a console don't even compare to the level of depth, control, and complexity that PC FPS/RTS/Fighting games offer.

and this is being merciful.

This. And he didn't even mention PC's secret weapon: Tribes.

Don't try and make out like im trolling PC games. I enjoy PC gaming and i know it requires more skill.

This doesn't instantly mean that every single console game requires no skill whatsoever. That is what vocab keeps saying which is bullshit.

 

[vertopci]

Don't try and make out like im trolling PC games. I enjoy PC gaming and i know it requires more skill.

This doesn't instantly mean that every single console game requires no skill whatsoever. That is what vocab keeps saying which is bullshit.

Looks to me like he's saying console games require little skill compared to PC games and are made more for casuals. Which is true.

Regenerating health is the stupidest fucking thing ever.

 

[Atrophis]

Enemy Territory, both versions, is great to watch shoutcasted as it involves so much coordination.

Warcraft 3 is good as well as its pretty easy to follow. Watched a lot of the matches from blizzcon a few years ago and ive never even played War 3 online.

I would watch starcraft matches but i never have a clue whats going on :lol

Of course can never get enough of trick jumping videos from Q3.

 

[Majestros]

Do we have to call it a "sport"?

Not only does it derail every one of these discussions, but it's helluva lame too. Seriously, the thesaurus is your friend. Nobody's ever gonna get any respect using terms like "eSports" and "cyber athelete." You don't see chess players going around calling themselves any of these things.

 

[John]

Enemy Territory, both versions, is great to watch shoutcasted as it involves so much coordination.

Quake Wars?? 0_o The demo I played had more forgiving auto-aim than the first Red Faction.

 

[Atrophis]

PC shooters dont have auto aim :lol

 

[Kimosabae]

Do we have to call it a "sport"?

Not only does it derail every one of these discussions, but it's helluva lame too. Seriously, the thesaurus is your friend. Nobody's ever gonna get any respect using terms like "eSports" and "cyber athelete." You don't see chess players going around calling themselves any of these things.

Not to be rude, but you're just being closed minded.

First, you'd be hard-pressed to convince any conscious person today that Chess isn't a sport.


Second, language is a very malleable substance. There's no need to create off-shoot monikers -- the more competitive gaming gets accepted in the mainstream consciousness (in assumption), the more those terms will apply.

Being a former athlete myself, I can attest to there being many admirable physical and psychological traits on display in competitive gaming (that parallel other "sports"), such as high levels of eye-hand coordination, dexterity, confidence, reflexes etc.

Once people are able to look past the meager physical constitution that tends to afflict gamers, people will be able to expand their outlook on what makes their talents admirable.

Golf is a great mainstream example. People in the traditional sports world have hotly debated for years and still lightly debate whether it's a sport or not, but by and large, golf is considered a legit sport today.

-Kye

 

[FFChris]

It's pretty fun watching the Halo 3 games on MLG, once you begin to understand what's going on there is quite a lot of depth.

Haven't really watched any other pro-gaming, aside from Starcraft (where I never have a clue what's happening) but Counter Strike might be interesting to watch. I guess team FPS's interest me most.

Looks to me like he's saying console games require little skill compared to PC games and are made more for casuals. Which is true.

Regenerating health is the stupidest fucking thing ever.

Apples and oranges. A top PC player would have trouble competing at the top level of console gaming and visa versa. You're kidding yourself if you think any normal console player could get anywhere near to the level of skill the top levels play at.

 

[DDayton]

Not to be rude, but you're just being closed minded.

First, you'd be hard-pressed to convince any conscious person today that Chess isn't a sport.

To be perfectly fair, I think you'd be much harder pressed to find a conscious person today who thinks Chess is a sport. It's a game, certainly, but I've yet to run into people who are convinced it's a sport.

Poker isn't a sport, but it has developed a following and is televised in some parts much like a sporting event.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Apples and oranges. A top PC player would have trouble competing at the top level of console gaming and visa versa. You're kidding yourself if you think any normal console player could get anywhere near to the level of skill the top levels play at."


The ceiling for skills in console shooters is much lower than PC ones.

 

[Kimosabae]

To be perfectly fair, I think you'd be much harder pressed to find a conscious person today who thinks Chess is a sport. It's a game, certainly, but I've yet to run into people who are convinced it's a sport.

Poker isn't a sport, but it has developed a following and is televised in some parts much like a sporting event.

There's nothing fair here, because there's nothing substantial.

What's your definition of a sport? Again, obviously parochial and in tune with mainstream tastes.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sport

"a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

Obviously, this definition doesn't dovetail consummately with Chess, because "physical activity" jumps out at you as something that most definitely isn't an element of Chess.

So that's it then? Physicality is the defining element of a sport? Not it's set of rules and culture that promotes competitive behavior?

Because if so, then any everyday, run-of-the-mill, profane physical activity could be considered a sport. But of course it doesn't work that way, because it takes more than a high level of physicality for something to be sport-worthy. I'm not going to run outside to the nearest Palm Tree, leap for the nearest coconut and declare that a sport.

What's considered sports-worthy is defined by social forces that are far from static, regardless of any people with bigoted ideas of what is or isn't. Find me one serious Chess player that would agree that Chess isn't worthy of the moniker. And don't give me any personal anecdotes about your friends, because I don't care about them (no offense!).

You mentioned Poker? ESPN covers Poker tournaments extensively, which is a sports network. But judging by your last response, you'll probably brush that aside and tell me something insane like: "ESPN covers other 'games' that aren't considered sports.", ignoring the fact that they must have something substantial with "real sports" in common, or else they wouldn't be featured on the channel. Numbers of followers aren't enough. There's large numbers of people that follow tons of things that aren't featured on ESPN.

There's a few analysts that still don't consider Golf to be a sport on that station: all individuals of a bygone era being swept away by change.


-Kye

 

[DDayton]

What's your definition of a sport? Again, obviously parochial and in tune with mainstream tastes.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sport
"a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."
Obviously, this definition doesn't dovetail consummately with Chess, because "physical activity" jumps out at you as something that most definitely isn't an element of Chess.
So that's it then? Physicality is the defining element of a sport? Not it's set of rules and culture that promotes competitive behavior?

I'd argue that games are defined by rules (and/or a culture promoting competitive behavior), and that "sports" are subcatagories under that classification.

Because if so, then any everyday, run-of-the-mill, profane physical activity could be considered a sport. But of course it doesn't work that way, because it takes more than a high level of physicality for something to be sport-worthy. I'm not going to run outside to the nearest Palm Tree, leap for the nearest coconut and declare that a sport.

... but someone COULD begin a regular competition concerning leaping for coconuts, and make a game out of it, developing the sport of Coconut Jumping.
It might be crazy and/or silly, but it could be developed into a sport. It isn't, currently (and I see no logical reason why it ever would be), but it could become one.

What's considered sports-worthy is defined by social forces that are far from static, regardless of any people with bigoted ideas of what is or isn't. Find me one serious Chess player that would agree that Chess isn't worthy of the moniker. And don't give me any personal anecdotes about your friends, because I don't care about them (no offense!).

Well, the International Olympic Committee does recognize Chess as a sport... I'm merely arguing that you'd be hard pressed to find many folks who would agree with you on that point. The general understanding of "sport" includes an emphasis on the physical activity -- otherwise other modifiers are applied to the term (motor sports, for example). I'll readily call chess a game, but I'm not sure how it qualifies as a "sport", exactly. Granted, it may be a difference in terminology between us, but...

You mentioned Poker? ESPN covers Poker tournaments extensively, which is a sports network. But judging by your last response, you'll probably brush that aside and tell me something insane like: "ESPN covers other 'games' that aren't considered sports.", ignoring the fact that they must have something substantial with "real sports" in common, or else they wouldn't be featured on the channel. Numbers of followers aren't enough. There's large numbers of people that follow tons of things that aren't featured on ESPN.

Nah... I'd just say that I don't use television to determine the nature of anything. ESPN fills time with poker because it is a popular competitive game; however, under the most common understanding of "sport"/"sports", I'm not really sure that it qualifies.

There's a few analysts that still don't consider Golf to be a sport on that station: all individuals of a bygone era being swept away by change.

... although golf would seem to readily qualify as a sport under any use of the term, at least in comparison to chess or poker.

Might I ask why you appear to be so antagonistic about this?

 

[John]

PC shooters dont have auto aim :lol

Dude, my reticule locked right on people from five miles away.

 

[lakesideflight]

I usually watch the MLG live stream for Halo 3 or WoW whenever a tournament is up. I like watching competitive starcraft and warcraft 3 but I don't know when tournaments are being played with them so I usually don't catch them.

Also GotFrag.com is a pretty good place for competitive gaming news.

 

[Tashi]

This will never happen. Not even close. There's already way too much other sports to cover.

Not that it can't be covered by legit media...just not ESPN.

If it's going to be covered by legit media, it will be ESPN

http://www.mlgpro.com/content/page/181255/A-Historic-Day-For-Major-League-Gaming

 

[GamerSoul]

I love action so i'd definitely watch FPS's or fighting games. The trick is to find great commentators that ill give viewers more insight and a deeper look at what is really going on. That way people are also learning about the game and are being entertained.

 

[Xenomorph]

I could watch StarCraft all day if they broadcast here in America. Shits entertaining.

 

[vanty]

PC shooters dont have auto aim :lol

I'm pretty sure some PC games have some sort of "aim assist" option in the mouse settings, though surely for offline only. Maybe ETQW has this since it's a console game as well isn't it?

 

[methane47]

Do you actually like Halo?

And if you do like it, is it just a fleeting casual interest, or are you really into its multiplayer component?


-Sabae

Fleeting Casual Interest...

Does this affect my view of Televised Competitive Gaming?

 

[Major Williams]

I could watch StarCraft all day if they broadcast here in America. Shits entertaining.

100% agree. I watched it even when it was broadcast in Korean on youtube for crying out loud. It is such a great spectator sport, and shows what can be done with broadcasting the sport.

 

[Warm Machine]

This thread reminds me that I just bought the book Gameboys..

http://gameboysbook.com/

it is about competivie gamers in the CS community and focuses mostly on Complexity and the Team 3d clans battles playing CS. Just finished chapter 5. So far it is a great read.

 

[Kimosabae]

I'd argue that games are defined by rules (and/or a culture promoting competitive behavior), and that "sports" are subcatagories under that classification.

So you're implying here that not just any game can be a sport...

... but someone COULD begin a regular competition concerning leaping for coconuts, and make a game out of it, developing the sport of Coconut Jumping.
It might be crazy and/or silly, but it could be developed into a sport. It isn't, currently (and I see no logicaly reason why it ever would be), but it could become one.

... But go on to prove my point: that social forces primarily determine what games gets legitimized in the human consciousness as a sport.

Touche?

It's arbitrary. There's nothing innate about any game that makes it "sport"-worthy.

Most sports you know today have humble beginnings that were hardly recognizable in their nascency: all it took was corporate appropriation to give them legitimacy in the human consciousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_baseball

http://www.ezilon.com/information/article_239.shtml

Might I ask why you appear to be so antagonistic about this?

Err... sorry. This isn't something I do intentionally and I am trying to work on it -- you actually got the blunt end of a heavily edited version, in which I was consciously trying to curtail the antagonistic tone :lol

I'm just a very direct person, it's just how I am. Add the fact that I'm very passionate about this subject (as you can see from the rather long post I made on the previous page everyone ignored).

Again, I apologize.

Methane47:

I would argue that it would effect your ability to enjoy televised competitive gaming.

I'd argue that, people indoctrinated into a particular sports culture either participated in the sport at some point in their lives, or someone close to them did. Indoctrination into the major sports in our country is not hard, due to their pervasiveness as well as the sub-cultures that derive from them (bar culture, tailgate parties etc.).

If you've never played any video game seriously (not competitively, just seriously, as in, you were emotionally invested in winning), let alone Halo, then it's hard to grasp or appreciate why someone would take a video game that seriously, without proper introductions.


-Kye

 

[DDayton]

So you're implying here that not just any game can be a sport...

Implying? I thought I was outright stating it...

... But go on to prove my point: that social forces primarily determine what games gets legitimized in the human consciousness as a sport.

Touche?

It's arbitrary. There's nothing innate about any game that makes it "sport"-worthy.

Perhaps we're using the term "sport" differently, then. You seem to be using it as a laudatory -- I'm using it purely to distinguish one form of game ... the sort with feats of physical effort. That might be a slightly lax definition, but it is one that generally seems applicable.

Most sports you know today have humble beginnings that were hardly recognizable in their nascency: all it took was corporate appropriation to give them legitimacy in the human consciousness.

... but how does that contradict what I've said? Sports are games with physical efforts/labor components, possibly focused around actions of physical dexterity or endurance.

Err... sorry. This isn't something I do intentionally and I am trying to work on it -- you actually got the blunt end of a heavily edited version, in which I was consciously trying to curtail the antagonistic tone :lol

No problem! Just as long as we don't turn NeoGAF Textual Sparring into a competitive sport! (heh)

 

[Corran Horn]

Back when I lived with my parents like 2 years ago they had a channel called GamePlay HD on their satellite.
I would watch it and was kinda cool, they showed Warcraft 3 tournaments and other stuff like Resistance/Battlefield 2042/etc tournaments from time to time. Got me into watching some stuff like Starcraft on Gomtv.

 

[Kimosabae]

Implying? I thought I was outright stating it...


Perhaps we're using the term "sport" differently, then. You seem to be using it as a laudatory -- I'm using it purely to distinguish one form of game ... the sort with feats of physical effort. That might be a slightly lax definition, but it is one that generally seems applicable.

Okay, now your position is confusing me.

I'm lobbying against "laudatory" applications of the word "sport". When certain games are described with the term, there tends to be a general backlash. Mainstream understanding does not want to see video games, chess, rock-paper-scissors and other counter-cultural competitive outlets correlated with football, basketball and baseball. They're not on the same "level".

I don't believe the amount of physical activity alone embodies sportfulness. I don't see how any reasonable person could possibly believe that.

... but how does that contradict what I've said? Sports are games with physical efforts/labor components, possibly focused around actions of physical dexterity or endurance.

I'm not sure it does anymore, because you're confusing in regards to what you're actually arguing. It's simply supporting my argument regarding the social construction of sports.

-Kye

 

[DDayton]

Okay, now your position is confusing me.

I'm lobbying against "laudatory" applications of the word "sport". When certain games are described with the term, there tends to be a general backlash. Mainstream understanding does not want to see video games, chess, rock-paper-scissors and other counter-cultural competitive outlets correlated with football, basketball and baseball. They're not on the same "level".

I don't believe the amount of physical activity alone embodies sportfulness. I don't see how any reasonable person could possibly believe that.

I think the backlash is not due to laudatory or other terms, specifically, but of a distinction seen between sports (with physical components) and games. When you say you don't see how a reasonable person could believe that, I must admit a certain level of confusion... I've always seen sports as a subcatagory of games, with a certain inherent physical component different than that found in other games.

I'm not sure it does anymore, because you're confusing in regards to what you're actually arguing. It's simply supporting my argument regarding the social construction of sports.

Hmm. I think I was arguing simply that most people wouldn't say that video games are "sports".

Whether that has any bearing on them being televised or watched is another issue entirely, really.

 

[Nocebo]

I love watching pretty much any game played by a skilled player, doesn't even have to be competitively.
The game types I watch the most are competitive fighting games (street fighter) and RTS games (starcraft mostly). I can't wait till gomtv season 4 begins. Flash was a monster in season 3, didn't lose a single round untill the final.

I started watching starcraft just for the hell of it. I hadn't even played in years. The matches got me excited and now I can't wait to get into starcraft 2.

The only SC matches I sometimes find boring are Zerg versus Zerg because they're always pretty much the same: tech to mutas asap.

 

[To Far Away Times]

I like following the competitive fighting game scene.

"Let's go, Justin!!"

 

[Error]

starcraft matches, about the only competitive gaming that entertains me enough to watch it.

 

[Gully State]

After watching some Korean starcraft matches, I wish American competitive gamers had better sportmanship.