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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Anth0ny
- Start date
Was a great tournament. Also if you haven't seen it, check out the Salty Suite match between n0ne and $Mike at this same event. Much less perfect, but also very entertaining set.
Also n0ne's set in loser's vs Colbol was really good too.
In the link quoted, I'm the nerd that's right above Druggedfox's shoulder in the player cam. 
LucidMomentum
Member
In the link quoted, I'm the nerd that's right above Druggedfox's shoulder in the player cam.
Haha, I love finding myself in tournament vids.
The Big Balc, Jose V vs ThunderZReign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOlz5MOBT0s&t=612s
I'm the dude in the middle standing up clapping with the black and purple Project M shirt. I lost that shirt somehow during that trip lol.
Haha, looks like you were hyped right there. I like it!
Brainfreeze
Member
Alright guys, I'm attending Smash Valley V in a week (www.smash.gg/tournament/smash-valley-v-featuring-lucky-abate-swedish-delight-wadi-more), my first real tournament. I'm not very good. I've watched a lot of Melee over the past 3+ years, so I have a decent understanding of the game and it's many mechanics and match-ups, but I have very, very little experience vs. others and my execution is barely above basic wavedashing, teching, L-cancelling, and pivoting. I main Falco but play Marth for a few match-ups and I play Doc and Luigi occasionally.
Anyway, does anyone have any 1-week training tips to try and level up as much as possible in that time? I don't expect to do well but if I can avoid being totally embarassed that'd be swell.
Anyway, does anyone have any 1-week training tips to try and level up as much as possible in that time? I don't expect to do well but if I can avoid being totally embarassed that'd be swell.
I don't really have any training tips but when you're at tournaments never be afraid to ask people for friendlies and when in tournament if you lose ask people what you can do better. I mean if you get 5 stocked yeah they probably can't tell you much, but a lot of people are really open to giving advice and it's kind of sad to see people at locals who are quiet, go 0-2, and don't really feel comfortable to ask because 90% of the people will help them out and it only takes a couple people to have your back to really improve
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Play people. Obviously some fundamental execution matters, but it doesn't do much good unless you actually have experience playing with others. Before you can execute what you want to do in a situation, you have to know what you want to do. And before you know what you want to do you have to recognize the situation in the first place. And that comes from experience playing against people.
Netplay is a great tool for this, and hopefully you will get lots of time for friendlies at the tournament.
Also keep in mind you are probably in for a rough bracket so don't be surprised if you go 0-2. Even at a local that would be likely, but at a regional like this it's almost guaranteed. A tournament that size may not have pools, so you may end up against a high seed (possibly a top 100 player since there are several attending) in R1 and the losers match is a total crapshoot. Could be someone equally inexperienced, or it could be a decent local guy that just happened to lose to someone like Lucky in R1.
Training you do in the week leading up to it will be a lot less useful than what you learn there, playing against real people. Focus your efforts on maximizing that benefit: play as many friendlies as you can, ask people for advice (helps to ask before you play so they know to watch for it). Every time you die, take just a second while you're on the invincibility platform to ask yourself what situations led to your previous death (unfortunately, a lot of this will be tech stuff early on though). Make sure you don't play just to play, but instead be actively thinking about what you can improve on after each match.
Also keep expectations seriously in check. You said you don't expect to do well, but expect even less than that. Expect nothing but to be challenged. I don't know how good you are obviously, you might be the kind of hidden boss that makes it out of pools. But for most people, early tournament experiences involve losing a lot.
That said, tech skill practice is always helpful. Doing that each day is good. I'd also recommend focusing almost only on your main for now.
More importantly, have a good time!
Brainfreeze
Member
Thanks for the advice guys. I have tried to play netplay in the past, but I've always had terrible lag issues, which is why I have so little experience, because none of my close friends care to play. Hopefully I can pick up a lot of experience while I'm there.
I'll admit I tend to be really shy at these things, especially since I'm going alone, but I'll do my best to get as many friendlies in as possible. I went to a couple PM tourneys back in the day and... I didn't play nearly as much as I would have liked. I'll try to change that this time.
I'll admit I tend to be really shy at these things, especially since I'm going alone, but I'll do my best to get as many friendlies in as possible. I went to a couple PM tourneys back in the day and... I didn't play nearly as much as I would have liked. I'll try to change that this time.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Probably about time for me to try and get netplay setup and get bopped endlessly. Just been working on getting the feel of Falco for about 20 minutes a day. Dumbshielding a bit less, hitting most of my L cancels and my wavedashes suck but are noticeably improving.
Why can I wavedash out of shield but not out of shine, lol?
I can doubleshine and am getting a little more consistent with it. Have the motion down, it's not all that hard with Falco.
Shortens are hard. I can hit them, but never a specific one.
If there's one thing I can say, Falco feels more natural to me than Sheik did. No matter how much I practiced with her it never felt "right." Despite pushing less buttons to play the character I felt like I struggled more with timings and froze up or stumbled a lot more often.
But I can't stick with a character. After I stop playing for 6 months I wonder who I will pick up next time? So far, Marth/Yink (casual play) -> Falcon -> Sheik -> Fox (sorta kinda) -> Falco.
Why can I wavedash out of shield but not out of shine, lol?
I can doubleshine and am getting a little more consistent with it. Have the motion down, it's not all that hard with Falco.
Shortens are hard. I can hit them, but never a specific one.
If there's one thing I can say, Falco feels more natural to me than Sheik did. No matter how much I practiced with her it never felt "right." Despite pushing less buttons to play the character I felt like I struggled more with timings and froze up or stumbled a lot more often.
But I can't stick with a character. After I stop playing for 6 months I wonder who I will pick up next time? So far, Marth/Yink (casual play) -> Falcon -> Sheik -> Fox (sorta kinda) -> Falco.
S2J CONSISTENTLY getting into every smash summit and not getting any better is one of the most annoying things ever
Mang0 "nation" is fucking annoying
I want to see newer players, there should be a clause on inviting the same people over and over just because one top player uses their fan base to clog the system for their friend
Mang0 "nation" is fucking annoying
I want to see newer players, there should be a clause on inviting the same people over and over just because one top player uses their fan base to clog the system for their friend
You just described me lol
Tbf I play a lot of friendlies, I just don't talk to anyone in them, I'm usually on my phone in between games or silently watching the other people play. Also whenever I've gotten advice in the past a lot of the time it's stuff I already know like "Work on your punish game," or them telling me about tech that I already know about but can't consistently do.
S2J is getting better, the problem is that he's improving at the same rate the meta is. You can tell his edgeguarding/neutral have gotten better in the last year, but everyone's gotten better too. Also he's someone I consistently enjoy watching every Summit.
Also I'll be real this Faceroll spirit bomb has me tilted a little bit. Dude already has access to some of the best practice in the world and his Sheik isn't that interesting IMO.
I'm not a good player by any means, but if you feel like the advice that you get isn't helpful, try asking for more specific things. Like, "How do I DI Falcon's fthrow to avoid the worst followups?" or "Am I being too easy to read?" I've always felt like getting specific advice has helped my game a lot, especially in matchup knowledge.
Of course, I'm someone who sometimes goes 0-2 at my local, so you might be at a point where advice like that is less helpful.
I feel like advice like that is probably helpful at every skill level (and I'm about as good as you lol), the problem is a lot of the time I don't even really know what to ask for. One time a few months ago I played with this guy who's sort of an arcadian-tier player and he was giving me all kinds of good advice, but a lot of it was stuff I wouldn't think to ask about (i.e. "You need to play more defensive and grounded against Sheik, wait for her to approach more").
LucidMomentum
Member
I had Faceroll, Mchi, and TrichaelMan in my Pool at We Livin this weekend. I also got to play doubles with DonB so that was cool.
Needless to say I got bopped though. 25th out of 51 though, not bad.
Our other Kern County player, Tenshii got 14th which was dope.
In PM I also got 25th, had to play Venom and Blank and Yink in my pool. But the guy I drove up with, Dr. got 5th.
All in all, a fun weekend.
As for Faceroll getting into the summit, he's on the come up for sure but he lacks matchup experience I feel. I've been kind of meh about him after his "tutorial" on how to quickly improve at Smash on Kira's channel which basically came down to "go to more tournaments and play friendlies with better players" which is a great way to improve for sure, but only applies if you live in a place like SoCal where there's a weekly almost every day of the week.
Needless to say I got bopped though. 25th out of 51 though, not bad.
Our other Kern County player, Tenshii got 14th which was dope.
In PM I also got 25th, had to play Venom and Blank and Yink in my pool. But the guy I drove up with, Dr. got 5th.
All in all, a fun weekend.
As for Faceroll getting into the summit, he's on the come up for sure but he lacks matchup experience I feel. I've been kind of meh about him after his "tutorial" on how to quickly improve at Smash on Kira's channel which basically came down to "go to more tournaments and play friendlies with better players" which is a great way to improve for sure, but only applies if you live in a place like SoCal where there's a weekly almost every day of the week.
Title was really confusing, until I realized this had nothing to do with the real Axe.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I don't really pay much attention to Summit voting but that last round was really close. Had 7 players within 48 votes and the bottom one was eliminated.
Duck and Faceroll out today. Duck just barely, Faceroll was a few hundred votes behind.
Duck and Faceroll out today. Duck just barely, Faceroll was a few hundred votes behind.
fredrancour
Member
apparently the midwest people tried to do what new england did and just barely messed up: spend just enough to not get eliminated to save as many votes as possible for a surge on the first day where people get sent to summit.
i think duck's gonna endorse hugs now tho. i had hugs's stream open as the countdown ended and he appeared to be communicating with duck or a midwest vote organizer about what went down and the remaining balance of their votes, and seemed encouraged by what he heard in response to his questions about getting a little samus main solidarity.
theprodigy
Member
oh look, SoCal pushing around other regions, and people say Melee and Smash 4 have little in common competitively
As much as I could care less about Lucky and Hugs getting in, you can't really be mad about it honestly, Socal are the only region who have been streaming like 30+ of the 48 hours between all voting, the only excuse really is for Rudolph who if wanted to campaign would've had to do so are like 3am JPN time to apply to voting, unfortunately japanese streaming doesn't seem readily available regardless. But as a voter in the later tiers that are now not my #1 priority, I find it very discouraging to vote for people not campaigning, and especially the ones who just make like a single reddit post and then just make their friends shill for them as their extent of campaigning.
Edit: Rudolph Reaction
https://clips.twitch.tv/rudolphssbm/UninterestedFlamingoFuzzyOtterOO
(((
Edit: Rudolph Reaction
https://clips.twitch.tv/rudolphssbm/UninterestedFlamingoFuzzyOtterOO
(((chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
If they really wanted or cared about regional diversity they could make that part of the nomination phase. Only so many people from one region can reach the voting phase.
But they won't do that because they don't care. The way it works now brings in the most money, even if it results in tyranny of the majority.
But they won't do that because they don't care. The way it works now brings in the most money, even if it results in tyranny of the majority.
Definitely not one of my favorite players. Lucky should be cool though (guess he just seems that way since he's been out of it for a while).gonna be fun to see S2J not break a top 8
add nothing to commentary
and only marginally improve despite living in socal with some of the most top players in the world
especially for the fourth summit in a row
Doesn't matter much to me though, I'm gonna be playing Zelda that weekend anyway.
I like S2J, it's easy to say that he "adds nothing," but the dude just recently played one of the greatest sets of the last couple years (vs. Armada at Genesis 4), and him playing Mafia is hilarious. I would have rather not seen Lucky since I don't find him that interesting (in terms of gameplay or personality) but eh.
I think I agree with what Leffen said, it's hard to get mad when it's a personality contest and the SoCal guys actually stream and market their personality. Though it is bullshit that it's harder for international people to get votes in the first place since buying stuff from Summit shop costs a lot more money because of shipping. It's also kind of hard to get people like Rudolph exposure. I do agree that it's unfortunate to see this little regional diversity, but I think I'd be more unhappy if there was a lot of regional diversity but only like, ONE player from all of California (Mango) or something.
I think I agree with what Leffen said, it's hard to get mad when it's a personality contest and the SoCal guys actually stream and market their personality. Though it is bullshit that it's harder for international people to get votes in the first place since buying stuff from Summit shop costs a lot more money because of shipping. It's also kind of hard to get people like Rudolph exposure. I do agree that it's unfortunate to see this little regional diversity, but I think I'd be more unhappy if there was a lot of regional diversity but only like, ONE player from all of California (Mango) or something.
LucidMomentum
Member
I took two stocks of Lucky at Power 9 in Winner's Round 2 once.
On stream.
He SD'd twice.
On stream.
He SD'd twice.
WE TAKE THOSE
I took two stocks off of None once at Genesis. Granted it was in a friendly and he was mostly practicing shield drops but I was like wtf since I suck. I was going even with him first stock
Seriously, S2J is awesome and we can always use more Falcon in our life.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Are they using NTSC in Europe? Fire fox seems like it's going further than PAL.
lastrealgameralive
Member
Soon there will be competitive Coin Battles.
And competitive Super Sudden Death Battles.
And competitive Invisible Melee Battles.
The tier list changes dramatically for all three. Such change will make a lot of tournament players uncomfortable. But it must be done.
And competitive Super Sudden Death Battles.
And competitive Invisible Melee Battles.
The tier list changes dramatically for all three. Such change will make a lot of tournament players uncomfortable. But it must be done.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
You're trolling, but I don't think a coin battle tier list would be all that different. Peach and Puff would probably move down and Mario bros (edit: and Yoshi) would probably move up a little.
lastrealgameralive
Member
I plan to drastically alter the Smash scene to restore the spirit of the game starting in California.
Yoshi and Bowser are S-Tier in coin battle. Yoshi will always win in a free-for-all. How come we don't see free-for-all tournaments?
Bowser is top-tier in Super Sudden Death battle.
They actually had FFA tournaments way back in the day (like, pre-MLG,2002-2004, the Tournament Go era), but they stopped because the results were usually similar to the non-FFA tournaments but the meta revolved around janky shit.
Also California already has by far the biggest scene in terms of what currently exists, so.....good luck with that lol. You could probably successfully start coin battle side tournaments if you want to, people will enter side events all the time at my locals even if it's something they're unfamiliar with like SD Remix just because it's something to do after they lose in bracket.
Also, look up "Cactuar Stamina Pancake".
fredrancour
Member
i do wish my local tournaments had more frequent insane side events lol. even just a jank stages bracket would be fun if nothing else.
or 4 minute 3-stock pokeball battles.
i'm guessing I'd have to learn to TO myself to see any of this for either game tho.