NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Bingo. Unless Nintendo wanted to dump a bunch of cash into getting custom chips made the X1 is their best bet right now to hit a <$300 price point and get some profit out of it.
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Confirmed: The Nintendo Switch is powered by an Nvidia Tegra X1
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Bingo. Unless Nintendo wanted to dump a bunch of cash into getting custom chips made the X1 is their best bet right now to hit a <$300 price point and get some profit out of it.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I mean, what else would it be? It's a mobile device.
Yea it's just annoying they would lie and say it's custom. They could have told us from the start.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I didn't realize the K1 spec he postsd was throttled. That puts it in context because I am referencing the tests MDave did. I was going to say it is not possible that tablet doesn't throttle.
On the CPU side I wonder if upclock is possible from Nintendo. I wonder how much overhead they left.
It's also between ps2 and 1080ti
Wonder if it's grounds for a class action on false advertising. It's happened to NV before
Calm Mind
Member
Find me a Type C to HDMI adapter with everything the dock has to offer and then I'll believe you.
No you're not the only one, obviously.
But don't act like it's impressive that the Switch is more powerful than the X360.
X360 release date : 2005.
Switch release date : 2017.
LordOfChaos
Member
Digital Foundry clocked the vent area at 52 Celsius, I don't think there's cooling overhead for a post launch overclock.
Unless maybe the fan itself isn't working near potential.
The good news here is that Nintendo has a pretty straight forward upgrade road ahead for Switch as long as Nvidia produces Tegra chips.
The other interesting thing is how long until Switch OS will run on a Nvidia Shield?
Anyhow, I don't see the big fuss about being a X1, unless one just made oneself believe in some secret sauce or put too much heart into the Foxconn rumour.
It is what it is and currently there's no better mobile GPU that Nintendo could have realistically use, since TX2 doesn't seem adapted for small enough devices.
The other interesting thing is how long until Switch OS will run on a Nvidia Shield?
Anyhow, I don't see the big fuss about being a X1, unless one just made oneself believe in some secret sauce or put too much heart into the Foxconn rumour.
It is what it is and currently there's no better mobile GPU that Nintendo could have realistically use, since TX2 doesn't seem adapted for small enough devices.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I think you'd be surprised how many are upset that Nintendo can't somehow cram PS4-level horsepower into something the size of the Switch.
That's how much NVIDIA officially charges for the Jetson TX2 board (Tegra X2 + 8 GB RAM + 32 GB storage) that it sells to OEMs.
LordOcidax
Member
Nintendo never use hardware's specs to sell the Switch... So.. big nop.Wonder if it's grounds for a class action on false advertising. It's happened to NV before
I guess this means the Vita and PSP were unimpressive when they came out, too.
This is a moot point. Nvidia Shield has a TV out and it costs $200 all together.
Gotdatmoney
Member
So basically no overheax eh? How hot was MDave's shield running? Holy shit
(I know the device is bigger with more areas to disipate heat).
Was DF docked or undocked temp. You can barely hear it undocked from my experience.
Xbox release date: 2001
Vita release date: 2011
Damn guess Vita wasn't impressive after all.
Lol the chip itself came in 2015. So it's not like mobile chips surpassed the 360/PS3 a long time ago.
It's been close to 2 years since we started seeing mobile chips surpass those systems.
USB C is hot right now. Bom =/ retail price.
That said you can pick up a USB c to hdmi for $15 and a multi port USB c charger for $15-20. So yeah $30 more for some extra plastic seems excessive.
ArchedThunder
Banned
You realize the Switch his a mobile device, right?
Shield TV does not use USB-C so it's not really moot.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I bought this USBC-> HDMI adapter for $20 for my new MBP, and it works perfectly and 100% reliably (i.e. it's not some crap product).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F5E744A/?tag=neogaf0e-20
But I don't know what else the dock has to offer. USBC cables are not some super-expensive thing, they cost more than regular USB cables, but are still like $10-$20.
grim-tales
Member
That's very weird if the chip is not customised at all in any way.
LordOcidax
Member
Looks like some people are having hard time to understand this...
LordOfChaos
Member
So basically no overheax eh? How hot was MDave's shield running? Holy shit
(I know the device is bigger with more areas to disipate heat).
Was DF docked or undocked temp. You can barely hear it undocked from my experience.
That was in docked mode (undocked runs cooler, top)
For a heatsink to run that hot the chip must be pretty toasty internally. Probably letting it run against its thermal max to keep the fan quiet.
ethomaz
Banned
Jetson TX2 is the board, WiFi, Bluetooth, eMMC, USB-C, HDMI, etc etc etc... it is full board... not the only the chip that Nintendo buys from them.
I did the maths with a X1 and even nVidia having 100% profit over it Nintendo pay less than $50 per chip.
Depends on how you want to look at it.
In terms of announcements? 2015-2016, superseded by the TX2 and now Xavier announcements.
In terms of "I can walk into a store and by a consumer product with a better-performaning mobile SOC"? 2017. This is the current top-of-the-line SOC being used by any company in a consumer product. TX2 dev boards (Jetson) are "coming soon".
Revisions are possible every couple of years like they do with the 3DS but a new Switch with new specs every year isn't feasible for them.
The Switch is not a mass market tablet device, it is a gaming focused tablet. They are not comparable to Samsung or Apple that make tablets with the latest tech every year and sell millions of tablets at a much higher cost than a Switch.
What the Switch is and what Samsung and Apple make are for completely different markets where the gaming focused tablet market is niche in comparison.
Lol, it would actually be cool if Nintendo just partnered with NV to morph the shield tv into a home console only switch. And you know, allowed Netflix and the like.
You also have the switch for the latest graphics on a handheld gaming device. 😋
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Somewhere down the line I could see a TV-only version of the Switch, but it'll be in the waning years of the system. Think of something along the lines of the Wii Mini which stripped out practically everything but the ability to play games.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Nobody does custom chips anymore because it doesn't make any sense. In 1988 it made sense because what PCs were doing was so vastly different than what a super Nintendo was doing and throwing off the shelf CPU power at super Mario world would have made the console cost $500.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Well, at least with this...I can support the idea that this thing is more of a 3DS successor than a Wii U.
FunkyDealer
Banned
You're telling me this little portable system can beat Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii U? Systems with games like GTA V, The Last of Us, Gears 3, God of War Ascension and Mario Kart 8? And I can play it both handheld and on my TV?
Sounds damn good to me.
Sounds damn good to me.
/rethorical questions
I think it's impressive for how small the size is.. even tho I think it's a huge handheld. It's amazing we are seeing handhelds beating consoles, not that long ago.. I mean the wiiu is still current home console that you can buy.. it's not from 10 years ago. Guys we're many of you even around for Nintendo game boy.... look how far we come. BELIEVE.
Was not even that long ago when Sony said that if the vita was as powerful as a PS3 .. "it would burn in ur pocket"
Was not even that long ago when Sony said that if the vita was as powerful as a PS3 .. "it would burn in ur pocket"
Can you point to some technical documentation that states that these operation modes depend on hardware features? Because I come to the conclusion that these operation modes do not depend on hardware features.
Every whitepaper that I can find seems to suggest that all implementations of big.LITTLE use on a hardware level the same CCI-400 CoreLink Cache Coherent Interconnect, and that the operation modes are entirely down to to the implementation of the operating system's scheduler.
For instance: https://www.arm.com/files/pdf/big_L...ully_heterogeneous_Global_Task_Scheduling.pdf
LordOfChaos
Member
?
PS4 was customized, XBO was customized, PS4 Pro is customized, Scorpio will be customized, heck, Wii U was custom in new and bizarre ways
It's not on its way out, it's a new pillar of AMDs whole business
ArchedThunder
Banned
Yeah, the closest thing we might get to a spec boost before Switch 2 would probably just be a "new" Switch in like 4 or so years that has a 1080p screen and just runs the games in docked mode while in portable mode.
But Iwata did mention doing more configurations so I think we could see a "Switch Go" in 2 years or so that is cheaper, smaller, has the controls built in, and doesn't come with a dock, though they'd sell one that fits the system separate.
Iirc a snapdragon 820 adreno pretty much goes toe to toe with an x1 at least in a mobile application. And yeah apples chips surpass the x1 pretty easily.
JetSetRadio
Banned
That explains some stuff. Give me that hybrid 1st party library ninty, it's not happening so far.
Not every year, Nvidia doesn't release a new tegra every year but I can see a revision every two three year featuring the latest mobile tegra. Since it's literally an unmodified off the shelf part, very little to no r&d would be needed.
Also, how is this :
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01BBG33DC/
30 euro. And there are even cheaper ones, but I picked one with great reviews.
LordOfChaos
Member
Would be true, if you use the CCI-400, which TX1 does not.
I.e if you can support the newest big.little, you can support all prior versions, but TX1 was a custom implementation, that I guess didn't prioritize that.
Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8811/nvidia-tegra-x1-preview/5
You did the math on numbers you pulled out of the air (your wafer cost is way too high for TSMC), assumed 20nm and 16nm lithography cost the same (it doesn't) and assumed 100% yields at both 20nm and 16nm (you won't get that, and you won't get identical lossage at each node size, either).
Literally everyone but Nintendo is rocking a custom SoC this gen. It isn't about custom hardware architecture its just little SoC adjustments like ESRAM on the Xbox One.
Gotdatmoney
Member
That was in docked mode (undocked runs cooler, top)
For a heatsink to run that hot the chip must be pretty toasty internally. Probably letting it run against its thermal max to keep the fan quiet.
Ay, this makes sense since you can barely hear the fan in undocked mode from when I used it.
Now I really wonder what the Shield MDave was running at for those clocks. It has to be pretty hot but the shield is not portable so the thermal limits can be higher I imagine and no switching mechanic means the game logic is always constant hence the higher clocm.
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