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[Arrowgigantic]

Do you know of a non violent way to kill an animal?

Yeah, yeah, we get that her talking point is that she hunts for food.

And yet, I don't have any pictures of me taken smiling holding up a grocery bag.

 

[timmytheman123]

Heart attack. Damn humming bird, I didn't want to scare you to death.

You monster.

 

[Godslay]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j0jt43.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/jpeql0.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2u9u8pg.jpg

I think that we forget too often that it takes violence in some form to bring the meal to our plates. Hunting is an activity that many enjoy for various reasons. I speak for myself when I hunt I do so for the meat. Some may hunt for a trophy, but believe it or not I would say that almost all the meat is consumed.

 

[Gaborn]

Yeah, yeah, we get that her talking point is that she hunts for food.

And yet, I don't have any pictures of me taken smiling holding up a grocery bag.

As someone from Michigan I can say whether you hunt for food or population control there is NOTHING wrong with hunting, and most people that engage in hunting year after year are VERY responsible gun owners.

 

[timmytheman123]

Yeah, yeah, we get that her talking point is that she hunts for food.

And yet, I don't have any pictures of me taken smiling holding up a grocery bag.

What does her smiling have to do with anything? Isn't that what people generally do when getting their picture taken?

 

[NullPointer]

It's... satisfaction.

Those guys that want to watch the world burn? We just found one. We can argue politics until we're blue in the face and throw stupid unrelated speculation to try and make sense of the senseless and have something to blame, but if you're looking for an explanation, there's always crazy, evil, or both available.

It's rare to see a monster looking so chillingly monstrous, but there you have it.

You're absolutely right. I think we're seeing people emotional right now, trying to put this into a rational context when there may be none, and some trying to use this moment to bring about something, anything, positive as an end result. At least, that's how I'd diagnose myself since this past weekend.

And this may be one of the most heartbreaking and powerful news segments I've seen. From the Today Show, its the father of Christina Green. I just about lost it every time he used words in the past tense to talk about his daughter. Maybe more amazing than anything else is what he says about living in a free society where events like these could happen, and how he prefers this to the alternative, even when he's in the midst of unimaginable grief.

Video here

 

[QuickSilverD]

I'm shocked, shocked, that these two are trying to portray themselves as victims and use it to bolster their own views

You're shocked? like any of them would waste this opportunity.

Glenn Beck is already running full stop with this story in todays show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxg5Xmo_S4o&feature=player_embedded

 

[Godslay]

As someone from Michigan I can say whether you hunt for food or population control there is NOTHING wrong with hunting, and most people that engage in hunting year after year are VERY responsible gun owners.

Agreed. Hunters overwhelming obey the gun laws, because they want to maintain the right to bear arms. While this doesn't prevent criminals from shooting people, the majority of gun owners are responsible with their rights.

 

[Chichikov]

It's... satisfaction.

Those guys that want to watch the world burn? We just found one. We can argue politics until we're blue in the face and throw stupid unrelated speculation to try and make sense of the senseless and have something to blame, but if you're looking for an explanation, there's always crazy, evil, or both available.

It's rare to see a monster looking so chillingly monstrous, but there you have it.

This assertion is as unfounded as claiming he's a libertarian, and just as politically motivated.

You may be wrong, you may be right, but get off your high horse either way.

Edit: what, we're talking about hunting now?
Anyone want to bring abortion and global warming while we're at it?

 

[polyh3dron]

Well when you have Roger Ailes telling his own people at Fox News to "shut up, tone it down", then you know even he recognizes their rhetoric has gotten out of hand to the point where it gives the impression they're instigating political violence.

It's kind of like if you have a bunch of people protesting outside Walmart with signs like, "Death To Walmart!", "Let's Rollback their Heads!", and etc. Then soon after you have some crazy unaffiliated nut shootup a bunch of Walmart clerks. Even if the crazy nut didn't take direct cues from the protestors, the protestors should feel shame and embarrassment for making violent rhetoric that could associate them with a violent insane nutjob. That's basically the situation we have here.

Also, while it may be tough to ascertain his exact political affiliation. He definitely was politically aware. How many 20 year-olds know who their congressman is or what their congressional district is? He got a grudge against Gifford from when he asked a question at a townhall meeting. The Tea Party anger and the vandalism against Gifford's home and office made national news last year, so I think it would be safe to assume Jared was probably aware of these incidents. If this indeed was the case, it would only further validate his irrational thoughts of violence against her. This is why reasonable people understand why dangerous rhetoric has to be toned down. Even if the facts prove there's no direct or tangential cause, it very well could have been.

bam.

I have a feeling APF, nyong and JayDubya will simply ignore this or at the most, respond to it in a disingenuous way.

edit: one down and two to go

 

[ToxicAdam]

Maybe more amazing than anything else is what he says about living in a free society where events like these could happen, and how he prefers this to the alternative, even when he's in the midst of unimaginable grief.

Video here

Yea, I tried to watch it the other day and couldn't make it through. Clicked it off.

 

[JayDubya]

Even if the facts prove there's no direct or tangential cause, it very well could have been.

Could have been? Hell, space aliens COULD HAVE made him do it.

Fuck unfounded speculation. It's disgusting and insipid.

 

[Ember128]

Space aliens COULD HAVE made him do it. Fuck unfounded speculation.

It's disgusting and insipid.

While it wasn't a cause in this instance, violent rhetoric one the airwaves these days has in fact caused violence.

 

[Chichikov]

nvm, I thought you were responding to me.

 

[Clevinger]

I think that we forget too often that it takes violence in some form to bring the meal to our plates. Hunting is an activity that many enjoy for various reasons. I speak for myself when I hunt I do so for the meat. Some may hunt for a trophy, but believe it or not I would say that almost all the meat is consumed.

We do. And people have tried to make it more humane to kill livestock. And some people are vegetarians. And that's great that you hunt for food. But that's beside the point. Someone who often kills something they don't actually need to and grins and poses in front of its bloodied corpse does not "hate violence."

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Could have been? Hell, space aliens COULD HAVE made him do it.

Fuck unfounded speculation. It's disgusting and insipid.

What about this fucker:

Adkisson targeted the church, Still wrote in the document obtained by WBIR-TV, Channel 10, "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets."

Adkisson told Still that "he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."

Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because "he expected to be killed during the assault."

Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.

The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.

 

[The Chosen One]

I totally disagree. And I agree with Penn Jillette.

Hyperbole, passion, and metaphor are beautiful parts of rhetoric. Marketplace of ideas can not be toned down for the insane.

Then don't get your panties in a bunch when people place some culpability on you for your "metaphoric" rhetoric.

Some people want to say insane shit but have zero public criticism when insane shit actually happens. Sorry you can't have it both ways, especially people in positions of power and influence.

 

[leroidys]

The Western European countries with the highest rates of gun ownership also have the lowest murder rates. Please stop with the guns=murder nonsense, because it has absolutely no basis in reality. There's something about our culture (pressure?) that may help breed this sort of insanity. In fact, our non-gun murder rate exceeds all of Europe's entire murder rate.

Between Palin, Beck, and gun laws some people sure seem determined to add an anti-right slant to this atrocity.

Now you're imagining posts.

The way self defense laws are right now (much less public, good samaritan defense), any able minded person carrying a gun has to think twice before stepping in. Even without firing his weapon, a gun carrying citizen stopped the massacre. Odds are if he's got a handgun in his waist he's got assault weapons at home. We should probably take them right?


I'm not suggesting anything other then that more restrictions are not going to make us safer, only the contrary. We need police reform from the ground up. Most importantly how we interpret the word 'police' (fat dudes in tux pants).

I don't think you're actually reading anything people have posted in response to you. It is a far left wing talking point, but nobody in this thread is advocating taking guns away from legitimate owners. Perhaps I missed a post, but the great majority of posters touching on this issue simply elicited a knee jerk "THER TAKIN R GUNZZZ" response from you and others, the exact attitude that makes any sort of conversation pertaining to gun safety impossible.

 

[Ember128]

What about this fucker:

You're forgetting this guy who was en route to shoot up the TIDES Foundation;

Williams tells Hamilton that "Beck would never say anything about a conspiracy, would never advocate violence. He'll never do anything ... of this nature. But he'll give you every ounce of evidence that you could possibly need."

 

[polyh3dron]

You're forgetting this guy who was en route to shoot up the TIDES Foundation;

beat me to it.

 

[timmytheman123]

We do. And people have tried to make it more humane to kill livestock. And some people are vegetarians. And that's great that you hunt for food. But that's beside the point. Someone who often kills something they don't actually need to and grins and poses in front of its bloodied corpse does not "hate violence."

I don't see why you would say that Sarah Palin kills something that she does not need. Even if she does hunt for sport that meat will get eaten by something, no animal will give up a free meal. It is also typical for hunters to take pictures with the animal that they have killed and I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[polyh3dron]

^^^ wat

 

[Godslay]

We do. And people have tried to make it more humane to kill livestock. And some people are vegetarians. And that's great that you hunt for food. But that's beside the point. Someone who often kills something they don't actually need to and grins and poses in front of its bloodied corpse does not "hate violence."

I don't need to hunt or fish. I could simply go to the grocery store and get the goods. But I enjoy being in the wilderness, I enjoy the taste of the meats, and I like the peace of mind knowing that what I am eating is all natural.

In each case humane is relative. You are still killing an animal. Are feedlots humane? They certainly don't look like it, but plenty of us don't worry about it when we are eating a steak. Additionally, if you are well trained with your rifle it is just as painless and fast as any other method.

Smiling is normal in just about every hunting picture. Does this mean that the life of the animal is disrespected? I would think not, simply because hunters in general are some of the best stewards of land that you could have. They respect the animals that allow them some form of meaning as well as sustenance in their life. If you can't handle that then you don't understand what most hunters are about. It's not just some redneck in the woods blasting away at Bambi and his mom.

 

[thekad]

I think Clevinger's point, though ultimately irrelevant to this thread, is that engaging in a "sport" (ie hunting) because of its violent nature doesn't suggest that you "hate violence." In fact, it suggests the opposite.

Now you can argue whether or not she hunts because she gets to shoot and kill things or because of some abstract notion of tradition.

 

[polyh3dron]

No, no, no, no, fuck you, no, stop it, no.

So NOW you chime in...

Your game is getting old. That was a sick picture but it's like when you're in an argument with someone and in the course of the argument they call you a name, and then you focus on the name calling completely to draw attention away from the underlying argument, as is explained in the post below mine. This isn't the first time you've done it ITT.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

No, no, no, no, fuck you, no, stop it, no.

What is going on in here?

Hmm, well now I feel bad for giving you something else to talk about besides my post before that one, where there's a direct link between the constant anti-liberal rhetoric and a shooting spree.

 

[FlyinJ]

You're forgetting this guy who was en route to shoot up the TIDES Foundation;

But... the current violent political vitriol is nothing compared to what it was during the Bush-era protests!!!

 

[DrForester]

Well if everybody does it, it must be OK.

Baaaaaaa.

NSFW picture of hunters posing with their kill

Aaaaand this thread just jumped the shark...

You'd think it jumped somewhere around page 1, but life is full of surprises.

Matthew Gallant
Banned
(Today, 06:05 PM)

 

[polyh3dron]

Hmm, well now I feel bad for giving you something else to talk about besides my post before that one, where there's a direct link between the constant anti-liberal rhetoric and a shooting spree.

Yeah, he won't respond to the tides foundation thing or the guy who shoots up the church, or even the Chosen One's eloquent rebuttal, but post an inappropriate, yet topical picture and here he comes to capitalize on how bad of a person you are for posting that picture, completely derailing the conversation.

 

[timmytheman123]

Well that turned bad fast.

 

[Gaborn]

yeah, he won't respond to the tides foundation or the guy who shoots up the church, or even the Chosen One's eloquent rebuttal, but post an inappropriate, yet topical picture and here he comes to capitalize on how bad of a person you are for posting that picture, completely derailing the conversation.

How the fuck is posting a racist lynching pic with a caption implying they were "hunters" on topic concerning a congresswoman's being shot?

 

[JayDubya]

Yeah, he won't respond to the tides foundation thing or the guy who shoots up the church, or even the Chosen One's eloquent rebuttal, but post an inappropriate, yet topical picture and here he comes to capitalize on how bad of a person you are for posting that picture, completely derailing the conversation.

So Mr. Byron Williams sees hidden messages in Glenn Beck's show, and that's because Glenn Beck is trying to tell him things in sekrit code that Glenn would totally deny, that's the smoking gun you two were looking for?

Well hell, why wasn't Jodie Foster tried for Reagan's attempted murder, then?

 

[polyh3dron]

How the fuck is posting a racist lynching pic with a caption implying they were "hunters" on topic concerning a congresswoman's being shot?

he wasn't the one who started the "hunters" line of reasoning, he just took it to its conclusion. yeah it was fucked up and inappropriate, and it shouldn't have been done because now look at all the outrage that has resulted derailing the convo, but he didn't just post a lynching picture out of the blue for nothing.

 

[polyh3dron]

So Mr. Byron Williams sees hidden messages in Glenn Beck's show, and that's because Glenn Beck is trying to tell him things in sekrit code that Glenn would totally deny, that's the smoking gun you two were looking for?

Well hell, why wasn't Jodie Foster tried for Reagan's attempted murder, then?

Oh those messages were far from hidden, he wasn't playing a record backwards or anything.

 

[empty vessel]

I think that putting the worlds "deliberate" and "provoking assassination" together are an unfair characterization of my position. Stoking anger may be deliberate, and it may provoke violence, but that does not entail that the politicians who harness that anger seek a bloodbath. I also didn't mean to imply that this is an act of mere political calculation. I think that Palin is deeply delusional and actually believes that she is attempting to improve the state of the country. But that doesn't mean that her MO isn't about tapping into a deep sense of tribalism that feeds upon a vast array of self-defeating and destructive thoughts and emotions.

And when someone like Chuck Grassley supports an individual mandate, but then suddenly has a change of heart upon the election of a Democratic president and then viciously attacks the health care bill for political gain, there is a chance that he might actually have convinced himself that he is against the bill on principle. I never doubt the ability of people to say things incoherently, rationalize a position, and let emotions and desires drive their arguments. People can say incredibly harmful things and think that they're actually doing good, even if they're completely abandoning all principles by doing so. I would classify that as careless too, because it's not always a conscious thing.

Lastly, I don't see the relevance of demonstrating the iconography is common. A factual position is not a moral position. And morality is always about context. That is how we fundamentally make moral decisions. Even back then people were horrified that Palin would post that image. It got a lot of press and came at a really bad time. I have never said that Palin is culpable either. I have said that it's irresponsible. That's not a crime. I believe in personal responsibility. If people let themselves be swayed that much by a stupid image from a politician, then they are really dumb. But I think you underestimate the power of an idea, even the mere assertion of it.

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed this post and thought it eloquent.

 

[Blackace]

This thread is really ALL over the place.. like really..

 

[Particle Physicist]

Well when you have Roger Ailes telling his own people at Fox News to "shut up, tone it down", then you know even he recognizes their rhetoric has gotten out of hand to the point where it gives the impression they're instigating political violence.

It's kind of like if you have a bunch of people protesting outside Walmart with signs like, "Death To Walmart!", "Let's Rollback their Heads!", and etc. Then soon after you have some crazy unaffiliated nut shootup a bunch of Walmart clerks. Even if the crazy nut didn't take direct cues from the protestors, the protestors should feel shame and embarrassment for making violent rhetoric that could associate them with a violent insane nutjob. That's basically the situation we have here.

Also, while it may be tough to ascertain his exact political affiliation. He definitely was politically aware. How many 20 year-olds know who their congressman is or what their congressional district is? He got a grudge against Gifford from when he asked a question at a townhall meeting. The Tea Party anger and the vandalism against Gifford's home and office made national news last year, so I think it would be safe to assume Jared was probably aware of these incidents. If this indeed was the case, it would only further validate his irrational thoughts of violence against her. This is why reasonable people understand why dangerous rhetoric has to be toned down. Even if the facts prove there's no direct or tangential cause, it very well could have been.

I was typing up a similar post on my iPod earlier today, but then gave up because it was just too annoying to write something so long. I'm glad you made it though.

 

[Chichikov]

How the fuck is posting a racist lynching pic with a caption implying they were "hunters" on topic concerning a congresswoman's being shot?

Picking on the dumbest post in a thread and responding only to it is a shit way to have an argument.

But an awesome escape from discussing shit you don't want to talk about!

 

[Blackace]

he wasn't the one who started the "hunters" line of reasoning, he just took it to its conclusion. yeah it was fucked up and inappropriate, and it shouldn't have been done because now look at all the outrage that has resulted derailing the convo, but he didn't just post a lynching picture out of the blue for nothing.

actually he did. Trying to make a point with the worst aspects of human actions and thinking and comparing it to hunting.. is really out there.. also lesson to be learned.. NSFW labels aren't a license to post anything..

 

[DrForester]

This thread is really ALL over the place.. like really..

Not ALL over. It's carefully avoiding anything that might be on topic.

 

[Gaborn]

Picking on the dumbest post in a thread and responding only to it is a shit way to have an argument.

But an awesome escape from discussing shit you don't want to talk about!

Which is why I've responded to other posts in this thread. Actually, I have 38 posts in this thread, though I suppose it'll be 39 when I post this one.

 

[Chichikov]

Not ALL over. It's carefully avoiding anything that might be on topic.

Word.

Which is why I've responded to other posts in this thread. Actually, I have 38 posts in this thread, though I suppose it'll be 39 when I post this one.

I was talking about anyone in specific, well, maybe Dubya.
In any case, this was more an appeal for the future than a blame game thing (I couldn't help my 2nd sentence, it's in my nature).

 

[RustyNails]

Could have been? Hell, space aliens COULD HAVE made him do it.

Fuck unfounded speculation. It's disgusting and insipid.

Hey now, why you gotta pick on space aliens?

 

[JayDubya]

But an awesome escape from discussing shit you don't want to talk about!

"Escape from discussing shit you don't want to talk about" does not equate to taking a 15 minute break from GAF, eating dinner, reading the linked article, and responding.

That is patently unfair.

 

[The Chosen One]

I was typing up a similar post on my iPod earlier today, but then gave up because it was just too annoying to write something so long. I'm glad you made it though.

Thanks but now it seems the thread has been derailed with hunting non-sense, so the main point of my post has been side-stepped/avoided.

 

[Ember128]

So Mr. Byron Williams sees hidden messages in Glenn Beck's show, and that's because Glenn Beck is trying to tell him things in sekrit code that Glenn would totally deny, that's the smoking gun you two were looking for?

Well hell, why wasn't Jodie Foster tried for Reagan's attempted murder, then?

That is at best an intellectually disingenuous connection. The shooter in Tuscon is completely fucking nuts, and we are able to discern him being completely fucking nuts as his motive for shooting.

Glenn Beck puts forth all sorts of ridiculous conspiracies about George Soros, TIDES Foundation, and Unions, etc.

Byron Williams said FOX News stopping talking about some of those conspiracies is what made him mad. He watches FOX News because it is Conservative.

Mentally disturbed people are like the mice in cages they used to have in Nuclear Subs to check for radiation leaks. When a compartment faces a harmful level of radiation, the mice start dying. At that point, you need to stop the radiation leak.

Except this is the real world. Those mice are people. They have guns. And the radiation makes them go crazy.

 

[polyh3dron]

actually he did. Trying to make a point with the worst aspects of human actions and thinking and comparing it to hunting.. is really out there.. also lesson to be learned.. NSFW labels aren't a license to post anything..

I didn't say he was in the right for posting the pic, just pointing out how others such as JayDubya will make a huge brouhaha about it and ignore more poignant posts including one by the same dude who was talking about the guy shooting up the church that explicitly did it to kill libs, or Chosen One's well thought out posting about how the political climate had to have affected the killer's mindstate that he conveniently ignored.

You know what, fuck it. I'll repost it here so it can get some rebuttals from the people ITT that are swearing up and down that the insane right wing rhetoric we've been subject to for the last 2 years could not have possibly influenced the shooter in any way:

Well when you have Roger Ailes telling his own people at Fox News to "shut up, tone it down", then you know even he recognizes their rhetoric has gotten out of hand to the point where it gives the impression they're instigating political violence.

It's kind of like if you have a bunch of people protesting outside Walmart with signs like, "Death To Walmart!", "Let's Rollback their Heads!", and etc. Then soon after you have some crazy unaffiliated nut shootup a bunch of Walmart clerks. Even if the crazy nut didn't take direct cues from the protestors, the protestors should feel shame and embarrassment for making violent rhetoric that could associate them with a violent insane nutjob. That's basically the situation we have here.

Also, while it may be tough to ascertain his exact political affiliation. He definitely was politically aware. How many 20 year-olds know who their congressman is or what their congressional district is? He got a grudge against Gifford from when he asked a question at a townhall meeting. The Tea Party anger and the vandalism against Gifford's home and office made national news last year, so I think it would be safe to assume Jared was probably aware of these incidents. If this indeed was the case, it would only further validate his irrational thoughts of violence against her. This is why reasonable people understand why dangerous rhetoric has to be toned down. Even if the facts prove there's no direct or tangential cause, it very well could have been.

 

[Blackace]

until I went back to the first page I had NO idea what this thread was really about.. shutting this thread down too many people using it to post their views of the state of America rather than the actually shooting.