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CultOfMac:Why the new Apple TV will kill your Xbox or Playstation(hint:Motion ctrl)
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
infiniteloop
Member
I believe the new remote will be bluetooth.
jeff_rigby
Banned
So where is the Microsoft product to compete with the Apple TV @ $149 with the performance of a Xbox 360? The idea behind the Xbox mini, (Xbox 360 refresh without drives and able to use network drives and game stream to Microsoft platforms and stream games and media from the XB1 and PC) which was rumored in 2013 to release when Windows 10 releases for a price of $149, was to compete with Apple TV.
Apple Is About To Lay Down Its TV Cards
Apple TV will allow for third-party controllers to link to it via Bluetooth 4.2. An iPhone or iPad may also gain the ability to morph into a gaming pad when a game is cast to the TV, much like we see with Android TV. It is said to have the 802.11ac WiFi standard, too.
Apple partner Imagination unveils PowerVR 'super-GPU' with 512 ALU cores for game consoles
The following is an early educated guess at the Apple TV specs (grain of salt) but it matches on the high end, the above Power VR GPU. IF apple does want a game console as the Apple TV then it could be more accurate than not.
Apple iPhone 6 (Apple A8) performance review: when configured for a phone (limited power and heat dissipation)
Note that Geekbench 3 total scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 2500 (which is the score of an Intel Core i5-2520M @ 2.50 GHz)
For Lua 2 = 71% the performance of a i5-2520 @ 2.5 Ghz and other functions average about 20% of the i5 2520
i5 2520 notebook CPU compared against other processors
http://www.vgleaks.com/microsoft-xbox-roadmap-2013 said:
Apple Is About To Lay Down Its TV Cards
Apple TV will allow for third-party controllers to link to it via Bluetooth 4.2. An iPhone or iPad may also gain the ability to morph into a gaming pad when a game is cast to the TV, much like we see with Android TV. It is said to have the 802.11ac WiFi standard, too.
Apple partner Imagination unveils PowerVR 'super-GPU' with 512 ALU cores for game consoles
The following is an early educated guess at the Apple TV specs (grain of salt) but it matches on the high end, the above Power VR GPU. IF apple does want a game console as the Apple TV then it could be more accurate than not.
Apple iPhone 6 (Apple A8) performance review: when configured for a phone (limited power and heat dissipation)
Note that Geekbench 3 total scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 2500 (which is the score of an Intel Core i5-2520M @ 2.50 GHz)
For Lua 2 = 71% the performance of a i5-2520 @ 2.5 Ghz and other functions average about 20% of the i5 2520
i5 2520 notebook CPU compared against other processors
OH MAN SONIC SHUFFLE ON THOSE NEWFANGLED MEMORY CARDS WITH SCREENS
It won't have 360 graphic performance but the Intel Compute sticks shit all over Apple TV's.
infiniteloop
Member
How big are most 360/PS3 games? Seems like the storage size of the Apple TV/Apple's limitation on app size would hold it back the most, if 16GB is the max. Can't see App slicing helping that much.
edit: looks like the biggest games are 6-7GB
jeff_rigby
Banned
The assumption with all these ARM STBs is connecting a USB drive or using a network drive. I assume the Apple TV is also a 4K STB just like Shield and will take advantage of the 4K digital bridge to stream 4K and 1080P blu-ray over the home network from a PS4, XB1 or PC.
infiniteloop
Member
Apple letting you plug in an external? Crazy talk.
All info on the new apple tv out there says it will not support 4k.
While it won't compare to a console, it will be slick and make content more accessible compared to others and maybe a few simple phone features done better although just iPhones. Microsoft and others have all of the pieces but they never package it well and make the user experience underwhelming. How on earth are Microsoft still pissing about with version 1.0 music and video apps. There is never any thought put into them, just we must have music and video services, that'll do. As for 360, even if you did make it smaller, still slow in comparison to what these little boxes or sticks do.
Microsoft were way ahead of the game with streaming services on Xbox and then thought cable boxes were still the thing to aim for with Xbox One, dear oh dear. Now Apple will basically do what they've done but better while Microsoft have an expensive VCR. Bring on the slim and new UI.
Microsoft were way ahead of the game with streaming services on Xbox and then thought cable boxes were still the thing to aim for with Xbox One, dear oh dear. Now Apple will basically do what they've done but better while Microsoft have an expensive VCR. Bring on the slim and new UI.
family_guy
Member
As far as games go I don't think it's going to be that great because Apple is cheap and will ship this with probably a 16GB hard drive. That's worse than the premium Wii U model, and you know Apple isn't going to support external storage.
jeff_rigby
Banned
So Apple Phones are to be one of the first to support 4K home movies but they won't support 4K media?
Also HEVC is absolutely necessary if you plan on having a IPTV service.
Could you cite anyone saying it won't support 4K?
So where is the Microsoft product to compete with the Apple TV @ $149 with the performance of a Xbox 360? The idea behind the Xbox mini, (Xbox 360 refresh without drives and able to use network drives and game stream to Microsoft platforms and stream games and media from the XB1 and PC) which was rumored in 2013 to release when Windows 10 releases for a price of $149, was to compete with Apple TV.
Apple Is About To Lay Down Its TV Cards
Apple TV will allow for third-party controllers to link to it via Bluetooth 4.2. An iPhone or iPad may also gain the ability to morph into a gaming pad when a game is cast to the TV, much like we see with Android TV. It is said to have the 802.11ac WiFi standard, too.
Apple partner Imagination unveils PowerVR 'super-GPU' with 512 ALU cores for game consoles
The following is an early educated guess at the Apple TV specs (grain of salt) but it matches on the high end, the above Power VR GPU. IF apple does want a game console as the Apple TV then it could be more accurate than not.
Apple iPhone 6 (Apple A8) performance review: when configured for a phone (limited power and heat dissipation)
Note that Geekbench 3 total scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 2500 (which is the score of an Intel Core i5-2520M @ 2.50 GHz)
For Lua 2 = 71% the performance of a i5-2520 @ 2.5 Ghz and other functions average about 20% of the i5 2520
i5 2520 notebook CPU compared against other processors
It's so dead
eyeball_kid
Member
With iOS 9's ability to provide chunked downloads of an app (think: new level == another download), I think we'll see hard limits for apps go away. This also should help with disk sizes, as hypothetically you would only download the content you actually play.
Over time Apple might reclaim the Wii market that went away but the current rumored new Apple TV will have little effect on the PS4 and XB1.
Outside of phones, Apple hasn't shown major dominance. Heck their tablet sales have been falling quarter after quarter. They are going to try and reverse things with the Ipad Pro. Looking forward to seeing the details on the Ipad Pro on September 9 but I'm skeptical. MS finally getting their act together and it sounds like the Surface Pro 4 (releasing this October) is going to be dynamite.
eyeball_kid
Member
Right, I've never thought Apple would try to target the XB1/PS4 directly, but go for that Wii area that is somewhere between casual and core. Though if they don't offer a controller with physical buttons, most core gamers won't touch it.
My guess is it'll feel much like a Wii U motion controls, iPhone/iPad as second-screen experience, plus seamless switching from AppleTV to phone/tablet to play on-the-go.
And I think there might be another Nintendo tie-in. When Nintendo announced they were going to publish games on other mobile platforms, they said that their first title would most likely launch this year. We also know that Apple is quite willing to moneyhat exclusives with other content. I believe there's a good chance of seeing Nintendo on-stage at the Apple TV event, announcing an exclusive (or timed) game. If Apple does plan to position the Apple TV as a game console of some sort, they need some big exclusives as they got for Apple Music / Beats 1. Considering the audience they're probably going for, Nintendo would be a perfect choice and would probably break the Internet with buzz.
At first it might not disrupt PlayStation/Xbox, but keep in mind this thing will evolve extremely rapidly compared to consoles. Annual refreshes will make it dangerous in 2-3 years. The original iPhone didn't disrupt BlackBerry's core market of business users, but by the third and fourth generation, it had improved enough to where it did. Typically, Apple introduces a price point and sticks by it, so you could have something on par with the PS4 in 2-3 years that's $150.
The tipping point will come when/if Electronic Arts puts Madden/Fifa on it, and if Activision brings Call of Duty over.
With Windows 10 and Windows universal apps, the Xbox One is basically becoming the same thing, only x86 based, and it wouldn't shock to me see more regular Xbox hardware refreshes that basically use the same platform (Xbox Two, Xbox Three, etc).
For Sony, given that they've expressed explicit interest in giving up hardware, it wouldn't surprise me if "PlayStation" becomes a streaming app you run on your Apple TV five years from now.
The tipping point will come when/if Electronic Arts puts Madden/Fifa on it, and if Activision brings Call of Duty over.
With Windows 10 and Windows universal apps, the Xbox One is basically becoming the same thing, only x86 based, and it wouldn't shock to me see more regular Xbox hardware refreshes that basically use the same platform (Xbox Two, Xbox Three, etc).
For Sony, given that they've expressed explicit interest in giving up hardware, it wouldn't surprise me if "PlayStation" becomes a streaming app you run on your Apple TV five years from now.
charlequin
Banned
I'm not sure why people think a $200 set-top box that isn't well-situated for dedicated synchronous multiplayer games (i.e. something that nobody actually wants) is going to disrupt console gaming, instead of console gaming getting disrupted just because a ton of people are happy now to sit on the couch and play iPad games.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I agree with what you are saying but would add that Microsoft and Sony will also not stand still and will evolve also as you allude for the XB1.
Because of DRM issues and HTML5 <video> MSE all PCs be they based on Linux, Windows or Unix are now embedded. This embedded and protected by hardware TEE includes codecs, encryption routines with Keys and players. The embedded portions have to be installed, maintained and protected by the Hardware manufacturer or in cooperation with resellers. A thin C++ layer on top of the TEE routines provides the APIs that Playfair, Playready, Widevine or any number of DRM schemes that follow the C-ENC format use. The C++ layer must be constructed in cooperation with the Hardware manufacturer and also needs to be protected. The upper level DRM schemes are the responsibility of the APP or in the case of Browser supporting HTML5 <video> MSE, the browser developer. This reality is reflected in the MPEG LA pricing scheme, they charge 20 cents for use of the HEVC codec which is nearly always a embedded accelerated codec that every App or Browser supported IPTV service will use and is paid for by the Platform owner.
This is a game changer in both how easy it will make IPTV streaming services and media sharing in the home as well as creating the need for Hardware sponsors who are responsible for creating and protecting the lowest level of DRM support.
For media sharing over the home network you need the same DRM scheme used by every platform. Vidipath platforms use Playready and DLNA 2 at a minimum with DLNA 3 (HEVC support) now released by DLNA.org. Microsoft announced Playready porting kits for Android and iOS in 2013. While DRMtoday has just about every TV platform using Playready, Apple products don't natively support Playready or DLNA and have their own Codecs.
Chromecast YES
Android TV YES
Google TV YES
Roku YES
Apple TV NO
Amazon Fire TV YES
Samsung Smart TVs YES
Smart TV Alliance (LG, Philips, Toshiba, Vestel) 3 YES
Connected TVs (HbbTV 1.5 / TNT 2.0) YES
Sharp Smart TVs YES
Xbox One / 360 YES
PlayStation 3 / 4 YES
Adding to this break with the entire industry is that Apple is not listed in the Microsoft Master Licenses . This means the iOS porting kit will not be used by APPLE, a third party would have to provide and install a porting kit for an Apple app; the C++ layer being the only part I don't know who will create and be responsible for.
Apple TV not supporting Playready and 4K media is not logical given the coming markets as we know them. Something is missing in the big picture. Microsoft in the media types supported by their DLNA player includes MOV which is a Apple Codec and Sony in their software list is supporting Bonjour which was developed by and is used by Apple. Both the XB1 and PS4 will be media hubs for the home network serving 4K and 1080P from the blu-ray digital bridge and TV DVR as well as Ultraviolet and side loaded Playready media. Apple TV will not be a part of the coming home media sharing network?
HbbTV 1.5 / TNT 2.0 above are EU and France versions of the ATSC 2.0's XTV and both support Playready and Marlin which the Playstation platforms support but again Apple only supports Fairplay which locks Apple TV out of EU and US/Canada markets for coming TV features, China and other markets are also going to support Vidipath (DRM agnostic but the same DRM scheme must be used in a country for instance to share media) and will choose their own DRM scheme country by country but I don't think any will choose Playfair..something is wrong here...we don't know the full story.
In the short term, Apple not supporting HEVC saves them 20 cents for each Apple TV and blunts IPTV service expansion on their platform as it will be more expensive to serve 1080P and impossible for 4K to Apple products. They may wait to support HEVC till they have a TV IPTV streaming service like Sony's Playstation Vue. The Hardware SHOULD be able to support 4K but they elect when to turn on support.
Apple should take a leaf out of I think it was the Nvidia Shield and have software to map MFi controller inputs to any touch point on the screen. That way you could potentially play most ipad/iphone games even if they are touch only, by just adding a controller.
Do the MFi controllers have gyros in?
Do the MFi controllers have gyros in?
The issue with the MFi controller program is that no game can require the use of the controller. There are two different layouts standard (SNES style) and extended (Dualshock style) and every game that works with the extended also must work with the standard.
Interestingly, all MFi controllers that are standalone (don't connect directly to the iPhone/iPad) must be extended. So the extended layout is likely to be used for the Apple TV. I hope Apple allows developers to require the use of an extended controller in order for their game to function, though in the interest of appeasing consumers, that might not be the case.
Interestingly, all MFi controllers that are standalone (don't connect directly to the iPhone/iPad) must be extended. So the extended layout is likely to be used for the Apple TV. I hope Apple allows developers to require the use of an extended controller in order for their game to function, though in the interest of appeasing consumers, that might not be the case.
infiniteloop
Member
Is that true? after pad list a lot of games as extended only:
https://mfigamelist.afterpad.com/allgames
Prototype Viktor
Member
Or trying to out do iverge
CharminUltra
Member
RIP in piece Sony, Android, Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation, Samsung, Vita, Sega.
I'm just going by Apple's documentation
https://developer.apple.com/library...meControllerPG/Introduction/Introduction.html
eyeball_kid
Member
Jeff, Apple has never cared about co-existing with 3rd-party media formats and devices, and probably never will. It's to their strategic advantage to own or co-own the formats they use as they can more easily influence the direction of their products. By the way, MOV is not a codec, but a container format (and an old one at that), and is not really used in their current streaming technologies. If memory serves, their AirPlay technology streams audio using their lossless ALAC format and video using H.264, which has both hardware encoding and decoding support on their Ax line of mobile chips.
Father_Brain
Banned
New article in the NYT about Apple's alleged gaming focus:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/0...allenging-traditional-consoles.html?referrer=
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/0...allenging-traditional-consoles.html?referrer=
ajvizzgamer101
Member
That's how it is with every Apple rumor. Apple likes the rumors to bake a couple of years like the Apple Watch, like the TouchID in iPhones, Like Apple Music...etc.
Totaleclipes
Banned
Here we go again, just because it's got an apple logo on it, it a ___killer. Give me a break people need to stop jumping on a bandwagon that hasn't even arrived yet. No better then people saying mobile is the only future of gaming.
infiniteloop
Member
what remote? Apple haven't released it yet
MrCunningham
Member
So... I can play Pac-Man on Apple TV?
Current Gen consoles days are numbered.
Current Gen consoles days are numbered.
Retromelon
Member
Wooooah an A8? Son.
Watch out gamecube your days are numbered
charlequin
Banned
Do they, like, realize how goofy this sounds while they're saying it? If anything shows why the idea this thing will disrupt the industry is misguided....
MrCunningham
Member
The funny thing is, Apple already did create a big new category in gaming. They did that back in 2008 with the app store. Sure they were far from the first with a mobile phone capable of gaming, but indie game development practically exploded with the event of the app store. Quite a few new business models were built around the expansive mobile market that Apple created.
But I agree, this whole "bring casuals to the living room" thing makes them sound out of touch with the gaming market.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The chief analyst of Jackdaw Research seems to have forgotten that the Wii was a thing that sold quite well, from what I understand.
You know that's not a real image right?
VanquishUK
Member
I think it's funny how they used an image of Pac-Man.
infiniteloop
Member
the weird CG mockup one?
Father_Brain
Banned
I think the primary features distinguishing it from the likes of the Wii would be integration with the iOS ecosystem, stronger media features, a (hopefully) versatile controller, and much lower software pricing.
Now, how well this turns out in practice remains to be seen, and obviously PS4 and XB1 aren't direct competition, but *if* done right, I do think it could find a reasonably sizable market. And possibly further imperil NX, as that seems to be aiming for a similar position in between the mobile and core ends of the market.
DangerMouse
Member
Obviously I'm not a casual but while I wasn't interested anyway this further cements it (Sorry John, now that I have a TV for it I do care about my 4K stuff now and going forward, heh).
I have a 4K TV now with built in android 4K streaming apps for Amazon and Netflix so my next player upgrade will be getting a 4K blu-ray player when they come out and not this (if the PS4 surprisingly doesn't get a 4K blu-ray firmware update, which I think it will).
Hahaha
They just described the Wii it seems.
Father_Brain
Banned
Charlequin: if I'm not misremembering, weren't you pretty adamant for a while that mobile didn't pose a real threat to dedicated handhelds?
Granted, I held that mistaken view for a while myself, and this isn't necessarily the same situation, but I'd at least wait until Wednesday for that kind of skepticism.
Granted, I held that mistaken view for a while myself, and this isn't necessarily the same situation, but I'd at least wait until Wednesday for that kind of skepticism.
MrMephistoX
Member
I think if they get the rumored a la carte TV subscription service down that will get these into mainstream homes with gaming as a Trojan horse...but it needs to be as open as the App Store or it's going to remain a hobby: love my Apple TV as my iTunes purchase hub but waiting for Apple firmware updates to get new apps is a pain.