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[SgtCobra]

Ok, we have to clarify one thing quickly here:
D2, in a gaming context, is, and will always be, Diablo 2. Go find another acronym for your newfangled sci-fi pseudo-MMO.

Yeah that's not gonna happen. Destiny 2 is what's new and relevant right now, you're gonna keep seeing it.

How many of GAF who have actually played Diablo 2, I wonder?

I'm sure lots of them, it's not like it's just some game.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Thought this was about Diablo 2. Leaves disappointed.

 

[Lanrutcon]

D2 is Diablo 2.

Misleading thread title.

 

[texhnolyze]

I'm sure lots of them, it's not like it's just some game.

GAF is an enthusiasts forum, yes, but it's still pretty console-centric.

Maybe Diablo 2 is well-known, but people who haven't played it won't feel attached to the abbreviation.

It's number 55 in GAF essential RPG list, in fact.

 

[Lanrutcon]

GAF is an enthusiasts forum, yes, but it's still pretty console-centric.

Maybe Diablo 2 is well-known, but people who haven't played it won't feel attached to the abbreviation.

It's number 55 in GAF essential RPG list, in fact.

Got nothing to do with attachment. Diablo 2 earned it. If Destiny 2 wants it, then it can provide quality gaming entertainment for over a decade to the point where any game that even remotely steps into the same genre instantly gets compared to it.

And then it can submit a goddamn form, and we'll talk.

 

[Salty Rice]

I like popping balloons.

Trying too hard to make it sound like it was a bad thing.

 

[Twilight Gap]

You can replay both campaign missions through Ikora, and adventures through the planet NPCs after you beat them all. How are they trying to say don't replay whatever you want?

>3 missions at a time
>replay whatever you want
>mfw

 

[Boombloxer]

I know it's Time magazine and all, but I really wouldn't put much stock in an opinion piece by someone who hasn't even hit the level cap.

Destiny 1's campaign wasn't exactly Dark Souls either. The Taken King had some endgame missions that got really nasty though.

"All this game does is make you stand around and kill enemies while your Ghost hacks open a door."

*Bungie creates open-ended mission without a scripted obstacle*

"Hey, you can just run past the enemies, this isn't challenging at all!"

Do people want it to be like a WoW dungeon, where mobs will literally chase you forever?

Not sure. Many great exotics had to be earned. Black spindle, exotic swords come to mind.

It's kinda hard to take this seriously when I killed everything else in D1 with relative ease at max level. The only times I really died at end were raid mechanics and the occasional NF. Getting to endgame shouldn't be hard.

I find it's a healthy balance given you have more streamlined loadouts to pick from.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I like popping balloons.

Trying too hard to make it sound like it was a bad thing.

I mean I think it's just trying to get a point across...

 

[Horp]

Got nothing to do with attachment. Diablo 2 earned it. If Destiny 2 wants it, then it can provide quality gaming entertainment for over a decade to the point where any game that even remotely steps into the same genre instantly gets compared to it.

And then it can submit a goddamn form, and we'll talk.

Don't worry, in 17 years people will STILL play Destiny 2. Even though Destiny 3 will be out, there will be a sizeable amount of people still playing Destiny 2.
When the main theme of Destiny 2 is played on main stage of an Activision conference, the crowd will erupt with 3 minutes cheers.

xD

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Don't worry, in 17 years people will STILL play Destiny 2. Even though Destiny 3 will be out, there will be a sizeable amount of people still playing Destiny 2.
When the main theme of Destiny 2 is played on main stage of an Activision conference, the crowd will erupt with 3 minutes cheers.

xD

Seriously, it's simply not in the same ballpark.

 

[Star Orpheus]

No one ever throws this much of a fuss over GoW or MK.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

When the Taken King was out there was bags more content.

There was three raids, modifiers on all the missions and DLC missions, modifiers on all the strikes, modifiers on all the raids too, there was the POE, the court of oryx, the trials, there was those people you had to hunt down in the worlds – which I think were later removed.
There was leveling weapons, exotics, and sub-classes trees.

NONE of that is here now.
Theres a shed load of missions quests which are essentially the same, I'm OP for them and the rewards from them is Caydes burnt celery. Humour aside its not a great incentive.

At the start of D1 there was less content but did it really have to go so far backwards to move forwards? Did it have to be stripped so bare…I don’t think so.

I mean, …thinking about it now, D1 from the start had multipliers on all those missions from the off, it had the leveling of weapons as well and so I think and so theres even an argument that the pathway and content was much better at the start of D1.
Quality of Life upgrade doth not make a great game.

 

[Horp]

... there was the POE
... D1 there was ...

Now Path of Exile and Diablo 1? Can Destiny fans please leave the greats of ARPG alone T_T

(j/k)

 

[Exploratory]

Ok, we have to clarify one thing quickly here:
D2, in a gaming context, is, and will always be, Diablo 2. Go find another acronym for your newfangled sci-fi pseudo-MMO.

whatyearisit.jpg

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

Wasn't D1's PvE also a little too easy before they introduced the modifiers and such? I don't think this is a big deal; I personally like to blast my way through enemies. But for those of you worried, I'm confident we will have new content and modifiers down the road that will test your skill.

 

[Yui's Empire]

Destiny 1 had this odd problem where most of the content was a cakewalk, bar the occasional Nightfall strikes and the raid where, a couple cool game mechanics aside, you're spamming bullet-sponge enemies to no end, especially when you still haven't maxed out your character. The reward in better loot was... being able to play the same content again, but this time it would be faster. This was the problem with The Division's endgame around launch: you literally had no gameplay variations besides "make the enemies have 1000 times more health and that's it". The gameplay did change: fast-paced became an attrition challenge, as you had to make sure you stay concentrated for the 45-60 minutes required to do a mission that used to be 10 minutes. Seems like loot shooter have a hard time finding a meaningful way to offer a challenge that doesn't consist in 1000x health, which is too bad because AI, shooting patterns, environmental hazards, etc. could be mixing things up. Then again, most RPGs suffer from this too.

 

[molnizzle]

I died a bunch during campaign missions and I'm a D1 vet with over a thousand hours played. Not sure what this dude is talking about. The final Vex encounter on Nessus was particularly frustrating.

 

[DrROBschiz]

No one ever throws this much of a fuss over GoW or MK.

This is a Diablo 2 topic?

 

[hanspampel]

Diablo 2 PvE is the best ever

Diablo 2 is not part of the gaming zeitgeist right now. If you say D2 on a message board in September 2017, everybody knows what you're talking about, and it's the latest Bungie game. Nobody's mistaking it for a Might Ducks movie either.

so that is why 30% of the comments here are about Diablo 2?

 

[Admodieus]

Ok, we have to clarify one thing quickly here:
D2, in a gaming context, is, and will always be, Diablo 2. Go find another acronym for your newfangled sci-fi pseudo-MMO.

Diablo 2 is not part of the gaming zeitgeist right now. If you say D2 on a message board in September 2017, everybody knows what you're talking about, and it's the latest Bungie game. Nobody's mistaking it for a Mighty Ducks movie either.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Not sure about anyone else but walking through a room full of balloons shooting a nail gun sounds pretty damn fun to me. That said I also think Destiny 2's PvE is really fun. So that makes sense I guess.

 

[RdN]

Game is very easy,really.

Only thing that adds difficulty to the nightfall is the timer.. And even the raid, it doesn't challenge your game play skills. It's about communicating and coordination with others.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I don't really have an issue with the campaign being easy. The Nightfall and Raid are difficult, that's the stuff players will be doing the most.

The game could stand to have a heroic strike playlist though.

D2 is flawed and they made a few questionable decisions but it's overall a great game.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I call Destiny 2 "D2" all the time within Destiny threads, but using D2 in the title is a no-no.

As for difficulty, I agree it's too easy but at the same time I'm not too worried about it because I think they'll add some harder stuff with the DLC. They may only do that though because people bitch about how easy it is, so keep it up.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Ok sure why not:

The guns are varied, and you have access to a big arsenal all the time (grows as game progresses)
This is fun because you have to mix up your tactics depending on both enemy type, area (where the encounter happens), how much ammo you have and finally because you want to do special challenges (needed to unlock upgrades).

The enemies have very varying tactics. Some rushes you, some climbs around the walls, some take cover, some fly. None of the enemies slowly strafe left/right while shooting in your general direction (like all Borderlands enemies and most Destiny enemies)

The game requires you to not only move around, you also HAVE to play vertically, especially on harder difficulties. The maps are structured in such a way that this is required; ammo/health is often above or below you, and the general traversal is just very vertical. Also, some enemies are much harder to engage from below than above.

The game has a difficulty slider that goes all the from "I'm a badass and can squish my enemies with my weapon of choice)" up to "you can almost never get hit and there is a sea of enemies". The gunplay is very different in these different difficulties. In the lower difficulty settings it's a power fantasy game where you can relish in the awesome music and gore, and be a total badass that rips demons apart with a wide arsenal. In the highest difficulty it's more like a bullet hell game in full 3D. Frantic music, always moving, you have to use every weapon and ability to their fullest potential.

The sounds / music are awesome. Not a key part of gunplay per se, but definitely helps the overall experience.

The game has a very nice progression curve; in the beginning you have a few measly weapons, and limited movement. As the game progresses, the gameplay evolves. More guns, more enemies, different areas. This point is not about gun variation (already listed that), it's about the progression. You want to keep going all the time because you know that the next weapon or enemy time will mix it up further.

Literally everything you said about enemy variety in Doom is already in Destiny so your argument is falling apart rapidly. Progression applies to Destiny way more than Doom. There's always that next game because it's a loot game. Of course it's going to win on that front. Also what you said about switching tactics etc is straight up bullshit. Most of Dooms enemies expect you to use strafing patterns to avoid getting shot and just blast shit with whatever you have.

I even like Doom, but see how being incredibly reductionist makes for a crap argument? And at least I've actually played both games to build that crap argument, yours is weak af because you literally haven't even played the thing you're moaning endlessly about.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Are the Diablo people in this thread being serious? In 2017, D2 is Destiny 2. The vast majority of gamers will think Destiny 2.

Who is making a thread about Diablo's PvP being bad in 2017? Haha.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I think of Destiny's PvE like a Halo MMO, especially the way the targeting reticle snaps to the heads of enemies and sticks there. The way the enemies behave in the field is the same as an MMO, there's a ton of cannon fodder and all of a sudden there's an unbeatable enemy that you're not a high enough level for so you do no damage and you get wrecked in one or two hits.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Interesting, since it's almost exactly the same as the startgame content

Oh man, a new flashpoint this week, it's gonna be sick! Oh...it's just grinding a few mechanically shallow public events I've already done four dozen times
Well, at least I can hit up the heroic strike playlist! Oh...there's no heroic playlist and the rewards from the regular playlist are useless
This Call to Arms thing sounds awesome though, what kind of interesting endgame crucible challenge awaits me here? Oh, it's just grinding crucible for 90 minutes which will likely not even reward you enough tokens to exchange for a single legendary engram containing another shitty armor piece below your current power level.

Yeah, the endgame in Destiny 2 is amazing

This right here is the main problem, the weekly endgame content can be finished in a day or two and your left waiting a full week to be guaranteed a reward.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Are the Diablo people in this thread being serious? In 2017, D2 is Destiny 2. The vast majority of gamers will think Destiny 2.

Who is making a thread about Diablo's PvP being bad in 2017? Haha.

The vast majority of who? Destiny 1.5 hasn't even been out long enough to leave the crib.

Now go do some Baal runs, we're tired of carrying you.

 

[Comet]

Really thought this would be about Diablo lol

 

[AnathemicOne]

Are the Diablo people in this thread being serious? In 2017, D2 is Destiny 2. The vast majority of gamers will think Destiny 2.

Who is making a thread about Diablo's PvP being bad in 2017? Haha.

I'm sorry, majority of what now? What franchise sold 12 million copies of a game within 6 months on a single platform purely due to the legacy of its predecesor?

 

[Horp]

Literally everything you said about enemy variety in Doom is already in Destiny so your argument is falling apart rapidly. Progression applies to Destiny way more than Doom. There's always that next game because it's a loot game. Of course it's going to win on that front. Also what you said about switching tactics etc is straight up bullshit. Most of Dooms enemies expect you to use strafing patterns to avoid getting shot and just blast shit with whatever you have.

I even like Doom, but see how being incredibly reductionist makes for a crap argument? And at least I've actually played both games to build that crap argument, yours is weak af because you literally haven't even played the thing you're moaning endlessly about.

Haha. No. Not in the slightest. I truly can't even comprehend you feel that.

 

[cakely]

Heh. The entire OP is a bit of a humblebrag, isn't it?

I personally enjoyed the relative lack of bullet-sponginess, in the campaign, but that's just me.

 

[Strakt]

And this, I just dont get.
Responsive? What makes the guns more responsive than CoD, BF or Doom?
Sounds? The sound design in the game isn't bad, but I can't see how it's anything special. Listen to BF1 to hear some truly stellar gun sounds.
Melee and jump mechanics are responsive? Have you tried Warframe (which is a comparable game in many aspects)? Also, how can you feel that the jump mechanics are responsive; it's like super floaty. And the melee mechanics; i mean how responsive can they be: You click a button and bang you attack, just like any other shooter. Then we have super charged modes but those are just chaos and half computer controlled.
Sub class weapons and skills; well, I don't think I've ever heard someone praise destiny for having lots of class depth and variations. I've even seen people on this very board claim that the lack of variation is a feature, and important to the game.

Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

 

[Sephzilla]

A new sequel that includes PvE combat that begins with the letter D and ends with 2 just comes out and is the new hot thing. So clearly some people in this thread assume it's about a PC game from 17 years ago or some Dreamcast game most of the people on this forum never heard about.

On topic - Yeah sometimes Destiny 2's PvE feels a touch easy, but I've had plenty of moments where I've felt overwhelmed by enemies. So, I think it's fine. If I want to play Destiny and get mauled by people the moment I turn a corner I'll play Crucible.

 

[140.85]

God those replies, this game really has it's fan army. Not even bothering to debunk his statement you go on and say the game is fantastic?

You should check out Destiny Reddit every honeymoon phase of this series. Hoo boy, it's something else.

 

[Horp]

Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

You haven't ready anything of what I've written if you think that's my take.

Summing it up for you for the thousand time, cause you seem to lack the capability to read my posts:
I don't understand why people praise Destiny for being awesome in aspects X, Y and Z, when I argue that many other games does those things much better than Destiny. In some instances, these are even objective matters, such as "grandness" of a game (defined that term earlier).

If people would say "nah you see Destiny 2 is a nice game that is better than the sum of its parts. It's a nice way to just chill with your mates and get some loot", that would make sense to me. I played through the entirety of Destiny 1 (bar some later DLCs) with this mindset. Mediocre but chill game for sitting in the couch and hanging out with friends online.

But I see people all hailing it as the best ever, or close to, in several aspects.

And you know why? Cause fanboism. Have a nice day.

 

[140.85]

Holy shit you're still at it. You asked for an explanation on why and you still want me to go further when this has nothing to do with the OP's question. At the end of the day , I think you're just salty that Destiny does better than the games you play

Thats you summed up in one post. Stay salty homie.

Congrats on the meme post. Really fine posting. Way to reveal that the only one "salty" (cringe) here is you. Because someone expanding on their criticism of a game is somehow odd... On a game forum.

 

[Man God]

Honestly I didn't enjoy Diablo II until synergies showed up.

 

[JWiLL]

Ok, let me break it down for you even further.
Size, grandness, in this context refers to the normal things you would mean when talking about games. Actual map size in terms of m^2, number of unique -types- of locations, number of items, number of different enemies, number of skills, number of build variations, number of gameplay modes, number of players that can play in a single instance.
These are objective aspects.
And in those aspects, Destiny isn't grand. It isn't small by any means, but there are many, many games out there that are grander in every aspect.
THAT's what I mean by Destiny not being as grand as some (many, especially bungie themselves) make it out to be, objectively.


And this, I just dont get.
Responsive? What makes the guns more responsive than CoD, BF or Doom?
Sounds? The sound design in the game isn't bad, but I can't see how it's anything special. Listen to BF1 to hear some truly stellar gun sounds.
Melee and jump mechanics are responsive? Have you tried Warframe (which is a comparable game in many aspects)? Also, how can you feel that the jump mechanics are responsive; it's like super floaty. And the melee mechanics; i mean how responsive can they be: You click a button and bang you attack, just like any other shooter. Then we have super charged modes but those are just chaos and half computer controlled.
Sub class weapons and skills; well, I don't think I've ever heard someone praise destiny for having lots of class depth and variations. I've even seen people on this very board claim that the lack of variation is a feature, and important to the game.

Crit sounds, well you're back to sounds again. And one particular sounds, at that. And seriously, sounds can be nice, but when you list: sounds in general, a single particular sound, and "melee mechanics" as 3/6 core reasons why gunplay is super awesome... well that just says it all to me.


Preach. D2 is D2. Nothing else.

You're not wrong, but you have to realize you're arguing with Destiny fans here. The community is essentially "The Church of Destiny". Their beliefs are strong.

Destiny's gameplay systems are designed for kids to understand and they've become even more simplified for the sequel (weapon perks, skill builds, mods, etc) It's all very basic and there's very little variation. I never expected them to go full Warframe, but I wanted them to go maybe 10% of the way there. Nope.

Classes are basically "what do you want your super, jump and grenade to be". There's not much meaning to their names. Titans feel less tanky than Warlocks, it's silly.

The "Destiny has the best gunplay" comments are pretty outdated too. When the first game launched that argument could be made (on consoles), but weapons also handled much faster and felt more powerful then. There's no Last Word/Hawkmoon/Mythoclast weapon that feels super powerful and satisfying now. You don't have the ability to combine shotguns/snipers with heavy weapons anymore to really ruin the PVE battlefield. Most of the Scout and Auto archetypes are solid but rather boring to use.

The game excels when it comes to elemental effects and satisfying "head pops"...but the gunplay itself feels inferior to Titanfall 2/BF1/DOOM and the movement has been gimped from D1, it's much more grounded now.

Granted, everything felt amazing in the PC beta, so I'm still hopeful for that release. The game REALLY benefits from more powerful hardware and mouse and keyboard. I think the 30 FPS and heavy aim assist ruins a lot for me.

 

[Strakt]

You haven't ready anything of what I've written if you think that's my take.

Summing it up for you for the thousand time, cause you seem to lack the capability to read my posts:
I don't understand why people praise Destiny for being awesome in aspects X, Y and Z, when I argue that many other games does those things much better than Destiny. In some instances, these are even objective matters, such as "grandness" of a game (defined that term earlier).

If people would say "nah you see Destiny 2 is a nice game that is better than the sum of its parts. It's a nice way to just chill with your mates and get some loot", that would make sense to me. I played through the entirety of Destiny 1 (bar some later DLCs) with this mindset. Mediocre but chill game for sitting in the couch and hanging out with friends online.

But I see people all hailing it as the best ever, or close to, in several aspects.

And you know why? Cause fanboism. Have a nice day.

You asked what makes the gunplay so special and I explained it yet you still keep questioning people on their opinion. You keep comparing it to games I can care less about because I've played them all. They don't appeal to me. They might appeal to you and thats great.. but I don't like their gunplay/style. I don't think you can grasp what an opinion is EVEN when explained to you and have to resort to "fanboism".

Your lack of respecting an opinion makes me feel like you're just an ignorant salty dude.

 

[Lothars]

You haven't ready anything of what I've written if you think that's my take.

Summing it up for you for the thousand time, cause you seem to lack the capability to read my posts:
I don't understand why people praise Destiny for being awesome in aspects X, Y and Z, when I argue that many other games does those things much better than Destiny. In some instances, these are even objective matters, such as "grandness" of a game (defined that term earlier).

If people would say "nah you see Destiny 2 is a nice game that is better than the sum of its parts. It's a nice way to just chill with your mates and get some loot", that would make sense to me. I played through the entirety of Destiny 1 (bar some later DLCs) with this mindset. Mediocre but chill game for sitting in the couch and hanging out with friends online.

But I see people all hailing it as the best ever, or close to, in several aspects.

And you know why? Cause fanboism. Have a nice day.

You can argue all you want but it seems like you don't want to do it in good faith and it has nothing to do with being a fanboy. Your example of doom is strange but I feel that Doom does a lot of things good including the feeling of the game but guess what so does Destiny 1 and 2.

Destiny gunplay just feels right from how guns feel when they are fired to the sounds, The feedback that happens when an enemy is hit. I know when I am playing destiny because of the gameplay where abilities are sastisifying on how they are used, how they look and they are an interagal part of the game. Just like the jumps, yeah they can be floaty but they have always been and it doesn't hurt the game. it's just part of it.

You're not wrong, but you have to realize you're arguing with Destiny fans here. The community is essentially "The Church of Destiny". Their beliefs are strong.

The game excels when it comes to elemental effects and satisfying "head pops"...but the gunplay itself feels inferior to Titanfall 2/BF1/DOOM and the movement has been gimped from D1, it's much more grounded now.

Granted, everything felt amazing in the PC beta, so I'm still hopeful for that release. The game REALLY benefits from more powerful hardware and mouse and keyboard. I think the 30 FPS and heavy aim assist ruins a lot for me.

Yes he is wrong. The gunplay does not feel inferior to Titanfall 2, Doom or BF1. It's easily on par if not better than them and I love all three of those games.

 

[Blam]

While in reality they are like halo coop with hubs and repeating levels.

Next you'll tell me Warframe does it better. Yet those maps feel the same like they never change.

 

[kiunchbb]

I hate when my power fantasies make me feel strong.

You don't get power fantasy by stepping on ants.

 

[Forward]

So like Borderlands.

Dunno about that. Borderlands could be quite tough without the prooer loadout. Especially 2, with its absolute nonsense scaling.

 

[JWiLL]

So like Borderlands.

Borderlands has Vault Hunter mode and Ultra Vault Hunter mode. 2 levels of new game +.

So, definitely not like Destiny...but exactly what Destiny needs.

 

[Horp]

Yes he is wrong. The gunplay does not feel inferior to Titanfall 2, Doom or BF1. It's easily on par if not better than them and I love all three of those games.

Seriously!? In what universe!
Obviously Destiny does numerous things better than those games, but the gunplay??
No, I don't believe you.
Either you didn't play those games, or you're talking out of your ass.

Next you'll tell me Warframe does it better. Yet those maps feel the same like they never change.

Warframe is way too samey, you're 100% right. But the movement and progression is much better and deeper, respectively.

 

[JWiLL]

Yes he is wrong. The gunplay does not feel inferior to Titanfall 2, Doom or BF1. It's easily on par if not better than them and I love all three of those games.

Just to be clear, I love Destiny, but Titanfall 2 is on another level mechanically speaking - from gunplay to movement.

That's compared to every FPS out there, not just Destiny

 

[zelas]

Where did I claim I did? Doing challenges that are vastly above your power level are going to be challenging. The topic is on content that's at your level not being challenging for 85%of the PvE game.

That's what the person you quoted was talking about. It's what my original post was getting at too. Not all pre-end game content is a cakewalk AND its available alongside the story. You chiming in that the content was easy for you MUCH later in the game is off base.