Admiral Woofington
Member
I guess that's topical due to the other console war shit storm today
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Destiny's raids will not support online matchmaking with random players.
- Thread starter sjay1994
- Start date
postcyberpunk
Banned
Bummer. I have no friends... that is easily correctible here, though. But why hamper the game this way. If all randoms know what they are getting into, it does (could) work.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Server based text chat please bungie
Pattycakes
Banned
Server based text chat please bungie
No. I don't need Stormwimd chat all over again.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Do what I did, turn it off until needed.
I was horde until about a month before burning crusade, then made a alt paladin for a gandar at the alliance, fucking hell there chat board was horrible.. and my first visit to goldshire, and been able to understand what they was on about.. shocked was not the world, I went straight back on horde got the guys together and slaughtered them, it felt humane.
I really can't understand why some of you guys are defending the lack of matchmaking, if you don't want to play with randoms, it is good for you you can still play without them even if there is a matchmaking, a lot of people doesn't have a lot of friends to play together at the same time, it is way hard just to find 3 more people, let alone 5 more, I know there is DestinyGaf, but not every gamer is a member of this forum, and let's say, ok, you can't play with randoms so just inv anyone close or in the tower, well it would be easier too if there was at least proximity chat, but it is lacking too.
Ascenion
Member
Believe me I understand as some people won't even type GG anymore, however as far as I know there is no LFG in Destiny. There isn't even a way to talk to random people and that's my biggest issue. All Bungie's limitations make the entire ordeal of a raid hard for someone that doesn't have friends playing. With matchmaking gone there is no way to form this group in game. I'm not sure Bungie thought his through.
ShinMaruku
Member
This game gets better and better. Now bungie allow me to turn off my helm.
postcyberpunk
Banned
Actually, it is probably easy enough to bypass this in the Tower by recuiting and adding five people to your friends list.
Well you can play hypotheticals the other way.
Look for raid, 5 people found, half of them below level 15. Only two others use a mic, one of the a racist 12 year old, 20 minutes in half of them are gone, die.
Go to sleep frustrated.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Sorry, but why don't just give the option?
Getting a couple of friends up online at the same time is already a pain in the ass
Yup. I'll never be doing a raid it seems.
Why would they make raid matchmaking that doesn't check your levels?
Kssio_Aug
Member
How is it any BETTER?
Thats the point that I cant understand. That is some news that dont change anything for those who just plays with clans or friends, and on the other hand eliminate the option for those who enjoy playing with randoms. How is it better, thats something that makes no sense for me.
NullPointer
Member
Somehow matchmaking is going to ruin their hardcore six player raid groups. Don't ask me how, it just will, because space magic.
The only way to protect the sanctity of their high end gear that they invested and worked for is to make sure there's no matchmaking allowed. And that makes the game better.
Feels like I'm on crazy pills
I remember this debate on Halo forums when there wasn't any firefight matchmaking. I think it was for ODST.
I'm in total agreement with you. Never understood the problem. Let the players figure out if they can handle these in pick up groups. I do raids in MMO that are incredibly complex and sometimes take up the better part of a day with pick up groups.
Having the option is always the best way to go and does zero harm to anyone's experience. Like I'm seeing similar responses to the ones I saw after the ODST announcement. "GOOD RANDOMS WONT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THESE ANYWAYS!!". Makes no sense to me. If someone truly believes that then they probably won't use matchmaking and therefore any failure by random groups to complete the content wouldn't affect them in any way.
It was a quick hypothetical.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Yeah I noticed I could not talk to randoms and I was using open chat, assumed they were typical ps players.. you know, fucking mutes.
Give it some phantasy star chat element in the tower or else it is just you watching people dance with a ball with no way to talk to them other than 12 menus by which time they have spunked on the ball kicked at your face done a raid and turned there machine off.
I like this idea. In general without matchmaking gathering up friends needs to be dead simple, even easier than spamming your friends list for potential party members. Hopefully this is something Bungie has addressed.
(It would be good if Bungie would start pairing related information. Such as "no matchmaking for raids" + "this is the system you'll use instead".)
Zeuanimals
Member
"Extremely crafted" sounds good and I hope that means they're doing away with sponges and putting in actual, difficult raid bosses. Well, the raid bosses could be sponges, but I want a challenging sponge, not a shooting gallery with occasional dodging.
Kun Aguero
Member
Exactly, they are cutting this opportunity off for so many players who would like the opportunity to put a "raid crew" together.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Going to raid need warlock message me! (X20)
Pop
Member
End game content was always for the hardcore audience. Not just random people goofing off and quitting in the middle of it. Strikes will be that middle ground like LFR in WoW. Raids will be for people who want to commit to completing the hour(s) long mission. Even if you don't receive epic loot for yourself.
Join DestinyGAF
When Bungie deliberately leaves matchmaking out of a mode, it makes me wonder how extensive and challenging the raid will be. They must realize that this will prevent a lot of people from even checking it out in the first place, much less complete it.
Creating content that only a fraction of the population would get to experience isn't sensible at first glance. I can only assume that they're putting in all this effort to make the endgame truly rewarding for the few dedicated enough to band together. On some level, you have to admire that level of commitment to the hardcore niche.
Bungie appears confident that the main game is social enough that by the time you can even attempt the raid, you would have a sizeable Friend's List. I should hope the full game will have better integration with the clan system. We still don't know how all the social features might be implemented or tweaked for the final release. If it remains like it was in the beta, then that's definitely a problem.
I think most people are worried about the lack of matchmaking because of their concerns about the overall content in the final game. If they can't start a raid, then it means less content for them.
I think if enough people demand it, they'll be forced to put in matchmaking. Probably not right way, but eventually. They want players to go through the game first, meet other players, and have the community grow naturally. It's not like you can access raids on day one anyways.
By all accounts, raids are strictly endgame content. If players are dedicated enough to reach that level, it shouldn't be hard to find others in the same boat, if not through the game, then through outside sources like message boards. The content caters exclusively to those who are willing to set aside time and invest in this endeavor. Bungie feels matchmaking goes against that.
There will probably be a lot to do even without the raid, like running Strikes on Legendary difficulty. Bungie figures that one way or another, if a person is willing to take on the challenge, they'll reach out to others and get together on their own.
I'm not saying Bungie is right for not putting matchmaking in, but I do think the intent will become a lot clearer when we actually see how raids are incorporated in the full game.
Creating content that only a fraction of the population would get to experience isn't sensible at first glance. I can only assume that they're putting in all this effort to make the endgame truly rewarding for the few dedicated enough to band together. On some level, you have to admire that level of commitment to the hardcore niche.
Bungie appears confident that the main game is social enough that by the time you can even attempt the raid, you would have a sizeable Friend's List. I should hope the full game will have better integration with the clan system. We still don't know how all the social features might be implemented or tweaked for the final release. If it remains like it was in the beta, then that's definitely a problem.
I think most people are worried about the lack of matchmaking because of their concerns about the overall content in the final game. If they can't start a raid, then it means less content for them.
I think if enough people demand it, they'll be forced to put in matchmaking. Probably not right way, but eventually. They want players to go through the game first, meet other players, and have the community grow naturally. It's not like you can access raids on day one anyways.
By all accounts, raids are strictly endgame content. If players are dedicated enough to reach that level, it shouldn't be hard to find others in the same boat, if not through the game, then through outside sources like message boards. The content caters exclusively to those who are willing to set aside time and invest in this endeavor. Bungie feels matchmaking goes against that.
There will probably be a lot to do even without the raid, like running Strikes on Legendary difficulty. Bungie figures that one way or another, if a person is willing to take on the challenge, they'll reach out to others and get together on their own.
I'm not saying Bungie is right for not putting matchmaking in, but I do think the intent will become a lot clearer when we actually see how raids are incorporated in the full game.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Ideally there would be a section of the Tower or second hub area built specifically for this. Like a space bar where level 20+ hang out and can form random fireteams with an "announcement" system.
ShinMaruku
Member
Well sadly the fact that if you making something with randoms, you add chaos, people can't cope with chaos. And if it's something NEEDING team work and you have randoms and chaos that makes people lose, they become resentful and hostile, and then you have MOBAs.
I'd rather not have that issue. Hopefully some people build a network with enough randoms they get a good pool of people to do raids with. Also I'm sure randoms could do some great stuff outside of raids.
NullPointer
Member
How is that so different than matchmaking?
The main argument against matchmaking raids with randoms is the lack of communication. Or something. (hey Bungie, maybe your game should have better voice chat support!) People use the example of WoW, like these raids demand everyone to be on their toes and constantly providing feedback. Specific players have to fill certain roles, like the healer, the tank, whatever.
Here's the rub: Destiny doesn't have any of that. There are three classes in this game that player almost exactly the same, and all specialize on the singular act of murdering things. It doesn't demand the same sort of aggressive teamwork that WoW does. Is it better to spend two hours with people you know and can be assured are at least competent at the game? Sure, but the need to have communication isn't on the same level.
Here's the rub: Destiny doesn't have any of that. There are three classes in this game that player almost exactly the same, and all specialize on the singular act of murdering things. It doesn't demand the same sort of aggressive teamwork that WoW does. Is it better to spend two hours with people you know and can be assured are at least competent at the game? Sure, but the need to have communication isn't on the same level.
Boy, do they. The moon was a desolate place on many a night during the Beta.
I'll be DTR on PS4 on 9/9, though.
postcyberpunk
Banned
Which you can still do... just not with Raids.
True... which is why it might be a solid compromise to allow us to matchmake with others that have mics in. At least if it's lost mid-game it's shown they had one SOMEWHERE, and thus had the ability to communicate. And an exception can be made between those on your friends list because maybe you worked out some sort of third party system, IE Ventrilo, Skype, or just doing it over the phone.
Of course, that then goes back to Bungie's bizarre "no interacting with randoms" policy, so yeah. I think they're kind of sabotaging their own social experience.
Well then enjoy the story. Raids by nature are multiple people
Suzushiiro
Banned
Bungie paid attention to how random matchmaking for PvE content went in WoW and learned the lessons of it well. For some history:
-In 2008, the Wrath of the Lich King expansion was released, and PvE content (both 5-mans and raids) was drastically easier than it was in the previous expansion, The Burning Crusade.
-In 2009, along with the final tier of Lich King content before the next expansion, Blizzard released the dungeon finder tool, allowing players to queue up for any dungeon, be matched with four other players by the computer, and teleport straight there once the group was ready. Since these dungeons were all pretty easy (well, the new dungeons in 3.3 were mildly challenging) you pretty much steamrolled the place without having to plan or coordinate anything, got your loot/badges, and left.
-In 2010, Blizzard released the Cataclysm expansion. In response to complaints that LK dungeons were way too easy, Cataclysm dungeons were significantly harder than LK dungeons, pretty much at the level of BC dungeons. This meant that communication, coordination, use of crowd control, and tight mana management on the part of the healers was required to complete them, which the Lich King generation (referred to by many elitists as "Wrath babies") didn't really know how to do. This resulted in a lot of pain and suffering in dungeon finder groups and a lot of complaining on the forums until they nerfed the dungeons to be closer to LK level again.
-Ever since then, the hardest content in the game has not used automated matchmaking and requires pre-formed groups, and most other MMOs have followed that example. There are tools that allow you to find random strangers to group with on your own, but those are still pre-formed groups with a leader who has the ability to set their own standards for who can and can't be in as well as (hopefully) experience and a plan.
tl;dr- random matchmaking does not work with content that requires any significant amount of coordination or skill.
It is a fair point that there aren't many good tools in Destiny to form a group with strangers in town, though.
This. There weren't any clan tools/options in the beta but I pray there are some in the full game or I will be more than upset.
ShinMaruku
Member
Well stated.
HiredN00bs
Member
But Destiny has places where you can meet and recruit other players. ODST had no inherent social interaction whatsoever. Destiny has the Tower, Crucible matching, Strike matching, and random encounters. Whether you agree with it or not, they're not omitting Raid matchmaking because they're lazy; they're trying to push players toward better experiences. And reasonably, there's an 80% chance you're going to have a shitty experience matching with 5 random players (1/5 players you match with quits/idles/does not cooperate).
I call bullshit. Good luck trying to source this.
Jawmuncher
Member
Hope you guys have friends or can make friends to go on those raids.
It's just too much to help players streamline that process game side with matchmaking.
It's just too much to help players streamline that process game side with matchmaking.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Bungie deliberately left matchmaking out of Halo 3 co-op and Halo ODST firefight. Because reasons
Those reasons being they wanted to funnel everyone into vs multi to 'make friends'
A clan would at least provide a baseline that doesn't exist with random matchmaking. That baseline will of course vary between clans, with some perhaps not being much better than random matchmaking, but the fact it's there would likely make a big difference I feel. I still would prefer there being an option for matchmaking, just that if they don't provide it then I'd at least like for whatever system they do have to be a seamless one.
But you do have friends on Xbox Live.