This has been the evolution of gaming for awhile as it continues its progression to a games as service model. Its why I havent identified as a gamer (among other reasons) for awhile now and havent been interested in main stream AAA games for a couple generations now. Switch seems to be last bastion until Nintendo starts fully embracing this shit and Persona/SMT games start dolling out demons in loot boxes.
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DICE Responds to Star Wars Battlefront II Beta Lootcrate Controversy
- Thread starter Tal Shiar Agent
- Start date
This has been the evolution of gaming for awhile as it continues its progression to a games as service model. Its why I havent identified as a gamer (among other reasons) for awhile now and havent been interested in main stream AAA games for a couple generations now. Switch seems to be last bastion until Nintendo starts fully embracing this shit and Persona/SMT games start dolling out demons in loot boxes.
Hari Seldon
Member
I wonder if the PR fiasco that these loot boxes cause is really worth it in the end. Sure you can point to Overwatch and MOBAs and how much money they make, but this game is a "get drunk and shoot shit" game and not a get super into esport game. I would never for a second consider buying one of these loot boxes in this game. So adding them in creates lots of negative PR, convolute the progression, and get people pissed off every time they die that someone else was money bagging the game. All this negative shit for the off chance that a micro small percentage of people become whales in a game that is fundamentally not a game that many people will stick with long term.
jim2point0
Banned
I'll complain until progression in its entirety is no longer tied to random loot crates. What an awful fucking idea. It might be one of the worst progression systems I've ever seen in a game and completely turns me off playing it.
Audioboxer
Member
These companies might go against each other for competition and who can earn the most money, but the top CEOs are probably all friends. Or at least business friends sharing yacht outings.
I envisioned the scenarios we see like penguins diving into water. If you watch a nature documentary sometimes you see it's one or two brave penguins that test the water first. Then once they're in and manage to survive and swim around the rest come in like a literal wall of penguins all at once.
Normalisation in the industry leads to this. If a handful of publishers and developers can get something into their games and boast about record sales and profits, the rest all dive in behind them for a piece of the pie. Hence why it seems like nearly every game these days is joining loot box mania. EA are just diving in with all their big franchises as the flood gates are open. Now it's about small tweaks here and there to see who can push the concept forward the most. Starts with cosmetics and moves onto gameplay affecting boosters.
Great article about the (general) subject of loot boxes here by Glixel:
http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/...s-a-good-loot-box-or-microtransaction-w508742
http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/...s-a-good-loot-box-or-microtransaction-w508742
Audioboxer
Member
If anyone has some time to read I highly recommend this as well
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php
Covers addiction in good detail too.
Very relevant given the full on assault we're seeing to try and turn paid games into "F2P". Or Fee2Pay or whatever you want to satirise it as.
texhnolyze
Banned
I love CAD comics.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
I read this, and was irresistibly reminded of that gif from The Office. The one where the dude is talking as Steve Carrell is just gently closing the door on him.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Or some of us just really want to play the game regardless of the loot nonsense.
I'll probably spend far more time playing this in single-player mode than anything else and regardless, I don't take MP all that seriously. (If I lose, I lose)
I'm playing Shadow of War right now and based on what I've experienced thus far, the loot box thing was blown way out of proportion (though I haven't seen the end of the game yet) so I'm not worried that the inclusion of loot in this game is going to ruin the experience.
That said, I understand some people are very much against this type of thing in any form so ultimately it boils down personal preference and choice.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Nintendo locks content behind plastic statuettes (some of which are admittedly pretty cool) so let's not pretend they are above it. They may not be as bad as some publishers but they clearly have no problem squeezing the consumer for every dime.
Except Overwatchs loot crates strictly contain cosmetics which most people at this point find acceptable. These Battlefront loot crates STILL offer an in game advantage to those who pay.
I hope DICE (EA) loses a ton of sales and good will over this. Dont ever want to see this shit in a mainline Battlefield game.
Lastgengamer
Member
Maybe some day we can have the privilege to pay for straight up cheats or even out bid each other in real time to determine which side wins the game... just make a big loot box that automatically unlocks everything, oh wait that was the season pass that was better than we realized.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They could let you buy the piece you want, thats what Titanfall 2 does.
Activision made over $3.6 billion from in-game-purchases.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Activision owns king though, wouldnt they make up a huge part of that number?
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
It just occurred to me that loot boxes were scattered around Battlefront 2015
Voidwolf
Member
Nice. I just hope they come up with a fix that makes the system fair so we can all enjoy the game equally.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
It just occurred to me that loot boxes were scattered around Battlefront 2015
A portent... to the lootbocaplypse!
family_guy
Member
I found the lack of content in 2015's Battlefront to be much grosser than anything I'm reading about here. I'm not going to join the outrage on this one.
The loot boxes aren't the only problem. They need to focus on the gameplay. It currently does nothing to promote team play beyond some tiny bullshit piece of text in loading screens that tells you that you get a bonus for being close to teammates, which no one does anyway.
Every game I played over that weekend may as well have been a free for all, no one worked together, there was no cohesion, the officer class is fucking useless beyond the turret. Even the starfighter mode was a clusterfuck of 'fly anywhere and do anything, fuck the objective'.
I'm a massive Star Wars fan, I bought the first BF on day one, I wanted to love this game but I don't, I don't even like the game. The only way I'll get this game is if someone buys it for me and even then it's not likely to be installed unless they actually put some effort into it.
There's zero point playing a game about a war of 2 sides when nobody works together and the game does nothing to enforce it. Yes, sure, it should never be forced but the incentives to stay together are utterly pointless, the spawning system is close but again, it's 5 people who don't give a fuck about each other and run off in 5 different directions.
EA did not do a good job with this beta, I was so excited for it.
Every game I played over that weekend may as well have been a free for all, no one worked together, there was no cohesion, the officer class is fucking useless beyond the turret. Even the starfighter mode was a clusterfuck of 'fly anywhere and do anything, fuck the objective'.
I'm a massive Star Wars fan, I bought the first BF on day one, I wanted to love this game but I don't, I don't even like the game. The only way I'll get this game is if someone buys it for me and even then it's not likely to be installed unless they actually put some effort into it.
There's zero point playing a game about a war of 2 sides when nobody works together and the game does nothing to enforce it. Yes, sure, it should never be forced but the incentives to stay together are utterly pointless, the spawning system is close but again, it's 5 people who don't give a fuck about each other and run off in 5 different directions.
EA did not do a good job with this beta, I was so excited for it.
Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah I agree with you, but my point is because Overwatch and DOTA are e-sports and people are playing them for thousands of hours, they are more likely to buy just cosmetic loot boxes. But when you are releasing a game such as BF2 or Shadows of War, games that are typically in the 40-100 hour range (for most players I'm guessing), no one is going to buy cosmetic loot boxes because their time with the game is so short relatively speaking. So in order to get in on the loot box train, they have to release loot boxes that affect the gameplay of those 40-100 hours. I question whether people will actually bother even with these type of loot boxes for this type of game. So is it really worth mucking up the design of the game for this? Only the financials will tell. I'm guessing they are confident that they can make enough money just on the initial sales of the game to try the experiment. I, of course, hope it fails spectacularly.
prag16
Banned
This will apparently be improved in the final game; DICE tweeted that in the final game, your "squad" will be a different color on the map so you'll at least be able to keep much better track of who/where they are.
The game does incentivize playing the objective; you get DRASTICALLY more battle points doing that compared to just playing everything as if its TDM. The level of teamwork in my experience was at least halfway okay most matches.
Mass Effect
Member
So does this mean they're taking guns out of the lootboxes then?
Are they talking overall rank or class rank here?
Either way, it's not very reassuring because it will probably be a miserable grind like the Battlefield games have become.
Did they say if we'll be able to squad up with friends? You know, like in Battlefield.
Because if not, that's monumentally stupid.
Are they talking overall rank or class rank here?
Either way, it's not very reassuring because it will probably be a miserable grind like the Battlefield games have become.
Did they say if we'll be able to squad up with friends? You know, like in Battlefield.
Because if not, that's monumentally stupid.
I know about the bonus points, but there's no visual cues of these bonuses. There's a small message in the loading screen and that was it so absolutely noone stuck together.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's really not that at all. It's a surprisingly vicious and competitive game on the PC.
I also think buying loot boxes under the current terms is throwing money down the toilet.
You are misunderstanding. As I read it, I am led to believe that these advantage cards are -not- bundled or unlocked in loot crates and instead are earned through other means such as challenges.
So basically like doing hutt contracts in BF2015, or earning class upgrades or equipment unlocks in BF or CoD through leveling thresholds or other requirements.
I've long since had to come to terms with the fact that randos are all gonna play Team Death Match regardless of actual game type.
Spartancarver
Member
Haha, sorry I like free DLC and was good enough at the game to consistently win and place in the top 3 on my team regardless of the enemy's star cards
Something tells me that the people who do well regardless of loot crate setup won't be nearly as upset about this whole deal. Especially since the new gameplay actually rewards gunskill and aiming and they've confirmed the most powerful cards are unlockable via in-game actions only.
I don't think I've ever hoped for a game to fail but this game makes that pretty challenging. Really hope this model doesn't catch on. Game companies need to be pressured to reveal the details of their monetization and progression systems a lot earlier, making it harder to sweep under the rug.
Loot boxes are already in BF1 and there is no way they arent in the next Battlefield game in some capacity also. If people dont want Premium in the game then I dont think there is a way around it. Obviously the implementation of it is probably going to be influenced by the response to Battlefield 2. Accurate rumors started dropping pretty early about BF1 and its setting, wouldnt be surprised if we started hearing stuff soon considering Battlefront and Battlefield are now on alternating years.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Titanfall 2 has free DLC and no lootboxes or pay to win mechanics.
The Omega Man
Member
What are the odds on those loot crates? I am going to guess there are some things more valuable than others on those loot crates and those will drop very seldom. So the "easiness" of getting loot crates doesn't fix anything when you still are not going to get the good stuff.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
That's one of the big problems outside of China, we dont have a clue. ESRB and Pegi folded like paper towels on this issue, i dont think they even require a disclaimer on the box, let alone forcing them to reveal drop %s.
Saucestin_Roast
Member
Yep. In no way is Nintendo a last "bastion" for this shit. They are doing it too in a way.
Spartancarver
Member
Official EA Twitter just said progression was artificially slowed in the beta, including the low credit cap per game.
Even at the beta rate I was opening plenty of loot crates. This plus article in the OP addresses all of my concerns personally.
Even at the beta rate I was opening plenty of loot crates. This plus article in the OP addresses all of my concerns personally.
LoveCake
Member
I love CAD comics.
That last image is going to be very relevant for people getting the game a month or so after release, going up against unbeatable overpowered and over-armoured players.
prag16
Banned
I think this probably overstates the level of buffs that will likely be attainable. And to whatever extend this ends up being true, in your scenario it would be true without loot boxes as well.
Spartancarver
Member
Nope. The star cards don't add that big of a buff. And latecomers to multiplayer-centric games always have a difficulty curve to overcome when going against people who have been playing since launch. That's not something new since loot crates became a thing