Support NeoGAF

[SOLDIER]

This is going to be the last job-related thread I make. Seriously. Promise. It’s become abundantly clear that I should focus my next longterm career on something involving computers. I use computers all the time, I’m always fiddling around with programs and configurations, mainly for self benefit (such as my SNES Classic)....even my current job has me diagnosing the main PC software associated with our equipment. I have a fair amount of experience, it’s about time I put it into finding a decent career out of it.

But it always comes down to IT Security vs Programming/Software Development. I always hesitate when deciding between these two fields because, frankly, I don’t know enough about either of them. I’m hoping I can finally get enough information to help me comfortably make a choice, so here are my general questions:

1. What is the typical work enviornment for either? Which tends to offer more stress, more freedom, etc?

2. Which tends to have more job openings and opportunities?

3. Which offer more flexible/rotating schedules? I’m officially done with the 8-5 schedule, because I hate the early morning and I especially hate being stuck on the ass-end commute for both going to work and leaving work.

4. Which is more likely to offer work at home options? Again, see above.

5. How much of the required materials can be learned for free online using various tools/guides, and how much requires going back to school?

6. What kind of certs/degrees/licenses should I focus on, and how many of those can be used for either field?

7. Finally, what are some of the most common job titles for either field? Are there job positions that can have you do a little of both? Depending on the responses for #6, should I be focusing on earning knowledge that can have me doing both IT and Programming in one job?

I’m officially done hesitating at this point, so if I can get some of these basic questions out of the way, I can finally put forward a career plan. I just need to mainly know the differences between the two fields, which one currently has better job security/availability and what’s the best way to get my foot on either door.

I’m also not against learning about a third option that I may not have known about.

 

[Mendrox]

I work in IT since 7 or 8 years.

First of all, your private IT knowledge and things you do (like SNES Mini hacking or customizing) won't help you in IT world at all. It's like two different worlds. Your general "how to solve a problem" knowledge is more useful for IT.

You won't like these answers, but in my experience these are true:

1. Depends on your company. Generally IT Security CAN be less stressful of course. It depends on deadlines and what company you work for. Freedom depends on your company.

2. In my experience Software Development, but you can't go wrong with IT security

3. Depends on your company. You won't get out of that - well I never got out of this. Also there are times in IT (depending on your company!) where you have to work a lot more and there are down times too.

4. Both I guess? Depends how your company needs you at their company. I would wager to say that software developers have more work at home days than any other person in my company, but I also take work at home as I like and I dont do any development for example (licence manager, purchasing, maintaining base data, IT administration and more)

5. Much, but any IT company is different so you would still learn how they do IT. There are of course generall things you should know e.g. how to set up Servers with different roles like WSUS e.g. or how to administrate the active directory, exchange, Office 365 etc. but in my experience every IT company works differently (with different quirks)

6. I can't help here, but I am a certified Microsoft Licensing Professionel and headhunters ask me every day if I am currently free for another job so... this is something which gets you job everywhere (if companies take licence management seriously which they should these days), but in your case? Difficult to say. I also did an apprenticeship in IT so I really learned the job in and out.

7. HelpDesk No you should avoid help desk at any cost except for getting knowledge.


If you have problems using Google - this would be your first step seriously. Googling is a big part of the job.

 

[Realeza]

You should consider IT if you want to use tools that already exist and want to become "fluent"at using them. You should become a software developer if you are creative and fucking love math.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I myself went for both these careers and ended up in IT, and this is what I learned:

1. IT is multi-faceted - a network engineer is not doing the same thing a virtualization engineer is doing - though their paths may cross (and knowing both makes you VERY marketable).

2. IT allows you more job opportunities outside of your specialization (a Java programmer may have a hard time getting a Project Manager position at some random company... I won't - because I have organizational/infrastructure/management experience as an IT Manager).

--

1. Programming allows you to be like "Neo" from the Matrix (in a basement surrounded by green-text screens... though if you're a Linux SysAdmin / Network Admin this can end up the same lol)... you can do really cool stuff. From simple things like building a Python web crawler to big things like a video game.

2. Programming seems to be a bit easier profession to "pick up and go" ... coders are needed all over the world, and while the jobs may suck (12 hr/day codemonkey) - they exist.

____

My final thoughts:

If you want a more open-ended career with more possibilities / choices in what you do and how you do it, go IT.

If you are very organizationally-minded and would eventually enjoy leading people or running an entire branch of a business (the IT, support, tech depts.) .. then go IT.

____

If you are creative and like making stuff - go programming.

If you want the freedom to pack up, move to California or Tokyo, and have your skills be more easily picked up and used - go programming.

--

Side Notes: IT requires a very strong problem-solving mind with an organizational aptitude. // Programming requires a very creative mind with detail-orientated thinking.

--

I'm sure some people will disagree or nit-pick but I've been doing IT as a career and programming for fun since I was 15 and I'm 32 now. So take it how you will.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

7. HelpDesk No you should avoid help desk at any cost except for getting knowledge.

Can confirm, have been on Helpdesk for 3 years and am about to go on a murder spree.*

Spoiler

*joke

 

[SOLDIER]

You should consider IT if you want to use tools that already exist and want to become "fluent"at using them. You should become a software developer if you are creative and fucking love math.

I like being creative.

I do not like math.

Is it at least the kind of math you can use a calculator to automate the process?

 

[QuantumZebra]

I like being creative.

I do not like math.

Is it at least the kind of math you can use a calculator to automate the process?

If you want to be a code-monkey - no (going line-by-line fixing other people's creations, doing database entry, doing basic skeletons/frameworks).

If you want to be a truly good-to-great programmer and make cool things - yes.

--

Marketing, Facebook, Google, Video Game Stuff (hit detection, physics) ... all math-based.

--

7. HelpDesk No you should avoid help desk at any cost except for getting knowledge.


If you have problems using Google - this would be your first step seriously. Googling is a big part of the job

I disagree on the Help Desk part - that's how I got my start and how I imagine 75% of SysAdmin/Managers got theirs.

On the Google part ... I and my support tech joke that we should have a Master's and Bachelor's in Google-Fu respectively.

I guess you can technically become a software programmer, but a very, very, very limited one. Computer Science / Software Engineering is pretty much math. And I'm not saying simple shit like Pre-Calculus, but way more difficult. You are basically coming up with your systems, so they better be damn good if you wanna do something worthwile.

This is 100% true and 100% why I went IT.

I can streamline a company's IT infrastructure and cut costs like a fucking champion... but writing algorithms? Lol nah.

 

[Realeza]

I like being creative.

I do not like math.

Is it at least the kind of math you can use a calculator to automate the process?

I guess you can technically become a software programmer, but a very, very, very limited one. Computer Science / Software Engineering is pretty much math. And I'm not saying simple shit like Pre-Calculus, but way more difficult. You are basically coming up with your systems, so they better be damn good if you wanna do something worthwile.

 

[Kysen]

You don't need math for programming unless you are doing graphics/statistics or finance work. Basically the lower level engine or tool development.

 

[Carn82]

Is it at least the kind of math you can use a calculator to automate the process?

No, pretty much the opposite.

Thought about front end development? You can be really creative with that. A good front end developer usually finds his work, and you can go to town with JS if you want to dabble with programming. But it's a highly competitive field.

 

[Carn82]

You don't need math for programming unless you are doing graphics/statistics or finance work. Basically the lower level engine or tool development.

You'll hit walls fast though.

 

[Realeza]

You don't need math for programming unless you are doing graphics/statistics or finance work. Basically the lower level engine or tool development.

Lol what? Second programming class I took (in Java) was pretty much math in disguise.

 

[Aureon]

Math is making systems work.
Programming is not literally math, but it's often very, very, very similar.

 

[ccbfan]

Programming/Software Development is definitely the better life style all around.

Higher pay, more in demand, less outsource potential if you're more than a code monkey, more flexible hours, less helpdesk situations, less stressful situations (No 12 A.M, "OMG the VPN tunnel is down and nobody can VPN in" fire drill)

Its also much harder to get into Programming/Software Development , you need a basic set of knowledge that not a lot of people enjoy and none of it is similar to hobbyist computer interactions. So people who think they want to be a programmer because they like computers usually get a smack in the face in first year CS and change majors.

 

[Mendrox]

If you want to be a code-monkey - no (going line-by-line fixing other people's creations, doing database entry, doing basic skeletons/frameworks).

If you want to be a truly good-to-great programmer and make cool things - yes.

--

Marketing, Facebook, Google, Video Game Stuff (hit detection, physics) ... all math-based.

--



I disagree on the Help Desk part - that's how I got my start and how I imagine 75% of SysAdmin/Managers got theirs.

On the Google part ... I and my support tech joke that we should have a Master's and Bachelor's in Google-Fu respectively.



This is 100% true and 100% why I went IT.

I can streamline a company's IT infrastructure and cut costs like a fucking champion... but writing algorithms? Lol nah.

Yeah that is what I meant with my HelpDesk post. It's great to get a mass amount of knowledge in IT, but you shouldn't stick with that and be cautious that you don't get caught forever.

 

[faint.]

InfoSec is a multifaceted field. Depending on what you'll actually be doing, it can involve a heavy amount of math too, especially if you're heavy into crypto. Just wanted to chime in with that as you specifically mentioned IT security and many of the other responses are speaking primarily about sysadmin roles.

 

[Drake]

I have a CS degree, but decided to get into IT when I took intro to Systems Administration my last semester. If you can get good with Linux, Active Directory, and Exchange you'll always have a job. I lean more towards the Linux side of things, but I find that Windows Admins are more in demand. That said Programmers are more in demand than Systems Administrators. I don't regret my choice of going into IT and have a very well paying job now that I enjoy, but it's definitely a lot harder to find good paying work in IT the than it is in programming.

I wasn't the greatest programmer and didn't really enjoy it. I LOVE the IT side of things, but I definitely thinks it's more stressful than being a programmer. Honestly, if you're half way decent at programming stick with it and get even better at it. You'll never be without work, you'll be super high in demand and you can basically write your own paycheck wherever you go.

 

[Westbahnhof]

One is an evil thing that feeds on the life force of young people after it isolates them from friends and family.

Spoiler

the other is a horror clown

 

[compo]

I'm not in IT, but I'm a software engineer, so I can (briefly) answer that side:

1. The work environment varies depending on the type of company you work for. A startup company with a bunch of investors' money riding on a brand new software product usually leads to some pretty crazy work hours. On the other hand, a government contract on some 10 year old legacy app offers virtually no stress at all. But there's a give-and-take associated with both of those types of jobs. The startup will have you working with newer technology, so you'll generally be more marketable if you decide to switch jobs, whereas the legacy government app could have you working with WebForms or some other old ass technology that nobody will hire you for anymore.

2. Software development and IT probably both offer the same amount of jobs. I don't know for sure with IT, but software development has a ton of jobs. It's a really good field to get into.

3. Software development allows flexible work hours if you go the freelance route. But freelancing is more difficult than working for a company. If you work for a company, you would most likely end up with a 9-5 again. It depends on the company's policies.

4. Working from home is pretty much the same answer as number 3, but replace "work hours" with "remoting into your desktop"

5. You can learn everything you need to know for software development online. It's one of the easiest subjects to google.

6. For degrees, a bachelor's of science in computer science is the preferred option for software development. It opens a lot of doors for you. For example, my manager doesn't even interview people who don't have a BS. However, it is entirely possible, and not even that out of the ordinary, to completely self teach yourself software development and get a job. The thing about software development is that you can directly test it in interviews, so companies are more open to hiring people without degrees because they can just give you a few practice problems to see if you actually know how to program or not.

If you do go the self teaching route, the main thing you'll need is a portfolio with like 3 or 4 different significant software projects you have worked on.

7. Common job titles for software development are software engineer, software developer, programmer, and probably a few others. They all pretty much mean "computer programmer." It just depends on what the company wants to call their programmers. There is usually a rank associated with each job title, and you work your way up through the ranks. For example, software engineer 1 is the starting rank, then you work up to 2, then 3, and then you either become a manager or stay at a 3/senior level rank the rest of your career.

And I would not say that there is a job where you do a little of both IT and software development. I mean, there probably is some weird job somewhere where that's the case. But that's the exception, rather than the rule. The two jobs are completely different, and if you choose to specialize in one, you're not really qualifying yourself for the other field at the same time.





Finally, for more information on software development careers, the cs career questions subreddit is a great resource. Don't fall into the trap of letting one single person influence your opinion, however. There are trolls on that forum, just like any other forum. Try to learn the aggregate advice: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/

 

[Interframe]

For what its worth, location and context do matter.

My Help Desk job that i work at in my college pays more than your average system admin or network admin salary where I live (I live in Ontario Canada). But this is mostly because of our union, who fight for higher wages every 5 years and usually win. It allows the IT department (and other support staff in the college) to get paid way higher than industry averages for their respective job titles.

Working for colleges, where I live, is pretty sweet. But your mileage really will vary in the IT industry

 

[sleepnaught]

Just tossing this out as a feeler. Fed up with my current job at 29, thinking of going back to school for Computer Science. Are there any great online programming courses I can try to see if it's right for me? I've always loved working with computers and enjoyed looking at and editing code with games as a kid, but never made the plunge to actually learn coding

 

[Kysen]

Lol what? Second programming class I took (in Java) was pretty much math in disguise.

I've been a java developer at a major ecommerce retailer for years and never needed math. The last time I needed it was before I was employed doing 3D graphics work in C++ (pet projects).

 

[compo]

I've been a java developer at a major ecommerce retailer for years and never needed math.

Yeah, you don't really need math, unless you're working on really theoretical stuff like Google's search engine. But you would need like a PhD from MIT to get that job anyway.

 

[Rush_Khan]

I wouldn't say things in programming inherently require maths (you can be good with algorithms and data structures without needing too many maths skills), but current things being added to software like machine learning and cryptography need A LOT of high-level maths. Having the mathematical knowledge will give you the edge over other programmers.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Just tossing this out as a feeler. Fed up with my current job at 29, thinking of going back to school for Computer Science. Are there any great online programming courses I can try to see if it's right for me? I've always loved working with computers and enjoyed looking at and editing code with games as a kid, but never made the plunge to actually learn coding

There are tons and tons on coursera. This one is pretty good imo.

https://www.coursera.org/learn/interactive-python-1

The Harvard CS50 is free on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4SGkB_8fFs&list=PLhQjrBD2T382VRUw5ZpSxQSFrxMOdFObl

I prefer the coursera one as it has assignments and shit and uses python which is far more useful to me than Java.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Just tossing this out as a feeler. Fed up with my current job at 29, thinking of going back to school for Computer Science. Are there any great online programming courses I can try to see if it's right for me? I've always loved working with computers and enjoyed looking at and editing code with games as a kid, but never made the plunge to actually learn coding

You don't necessarily need a degree in CS*. I retrained myself to code at 30 and have had a great time with it. I just used free/cheap sources and got to making stuff.

There are an absolute tonne of online resources, more than almost any other subject you can imagine. Also, unless you're working in finance or graphic programming, you don't need a huge amount of math at all.

*I have an MA in an almost unrelated field.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Yeah that is what I meant with my HelpDesk post. It's great to get a mass amount of knowledge in IT, but you shouldn't stick with that and be cautious that you don't get caught forever.

Yea my buddy is Case #1 of this.

He has been at the same dead-end Help Desk job for 4 years and I'm just like.. dude... stop... find a better job.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Programming is useful tool to have in IT work.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I have a CS degree, but decided to get into IT when I took intro to Systems Administration my last semester. If you can get good with Linux, Active Directory, and Exchange you'll always have a job. I lean more towards the Linux side of things, but I find that Windows Admins are more in demand. That said Programmers are more in demand than Systems Administrators. I don't regret my choice of going into IT and have a very well paying job now that I enjoy, but it's definitely a lot harder to find good paying work in IT the than it is in programming.

I wasn't the greatest programmer and didn't really enjoy it. I LOVE the IT side of things, but I definitely thinks it's more stressful than being a programmer. Honestly, if you're half way decent at programming stick with it and get even better at it. You'll never be without work, you'll be super high in demand and you can basically write your own paycheck wherever you go.

This is all fairly true.

BUT the big caveat is depression, isolation, and neurosis/psychosis are HUGE issues in the programming/coding field. It's hard to stay sane when your life is lines of code.

I found for my mental health... organizing infrastructures... planning... managing... interacting (socially).. all necessary.

And when it comes to income/job availability... let's be honest - both are in high demand.

It's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrarri... one is gonna be flashier and own the "top end" but the other is more reliable and damn near just as fast.

Programming is useful tool to have in IT work.

As a Virtualization guy / IT Mgr I found my biggest regret is not picking up networking knowledge sooner.

Knowing CCNA Routing/Switching and Subnetting would have been nice

Spoiler

SO FUCKING HELPFUL GOD WHY DIDNT ANYONE TELL ME?!

 

[Magypsy]

I wouldn't say things in programming inherently require maths (you can be good with algorithms and data structures without needing too many maths skills), but current things being added to software like machine learning and cryptography need A LOT of high-level maths. Having the mathematical knowledge will give you the edge over other programmers.

This. I'm a game developer and my math is mediocre at best.

Used to be pretty good at algebra and the like in high school though. I should do a refresher course or something

 

[Hari Seldon]

The Math question is highly dependent on the job. Engineering programming is going to require math for sure. If you want to do robotics or do data analysis or work with hardware in general you are going to need math. I wouldn't even hire a programmer if they didn't know what an FFT was lol. But that is my industry where most "programmers" are really just Engineers that taught themselves programming. We did have a CS guy once and he had all the math background from school and was fine, but I wouldn't hire someone who didn't have any of that.

 

[bwakh]

Lol what? Second programming class I took (in Java) was pretty much math in disguise.

There are many kinds of software programmers and not all of them require one to be in love with mathematics. I feel logic is much more important. It's a vast field.

Example: Mobile App Development, since i'm in that field.

One of the good things about programming, is that there are many ways to achieve the same goal or ambition.

Edit: E-Commerce websites, Web Portals, Web Applications, Mobile Applications, Front-end, Back-end, Desktop Applications etc., all of which have extensive documentations, various frameworks, ready-made libraries and easy-to-use methods that make life very easy for a developer to get started.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I'm 2 years in the field. I love it, but don't stay in Help Desk forever unless you can make a significant jump in your salary. Otherwise you won't go anywhere.

I think I'll let other IT people answer the hard questions because I'm actually trying to move out of help desk at the moment. I make the top margin pay for help desk because I work for a good company. I just want to grow and learn more.

I'd say you need to learn the basics of troubleshooting and problem solving. I work with Security stuff everyday. I'm still Help Desk though. Anything above this would be nice because I know what I'm expecting.

Programmers can freelance and they make a lot more than the person who does security sometimes. All parts of IT are important, but yeah some make way more money than others.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

You don't necessarily need a degree in CS*. I retrained myself to code at 30 and have had a great time with it. I just used free/cheap sources and got to making stuff.

There are an absolute tonne of online resources, more than almost any other subject you can imagine. Also, unless you're working in finance or graphic programming, you don't need a huge amount of math at all.

*I have an MA in an almost unrelated field.

Were you able to get a job programming? If so, how did you do it?

I'm 32 now. I've been in IT for almost three years as a business systems analyst. I got some advice from one of the developers in our company and started studying Python. I'm worried about how to move from IT to programming though... Any advice?

 

[Drake]

Were you able to get a job programming? If so, how did you do it?

I'm 32 now. I've been in IT for almost three years as a business systems analyst. I got some advice from one of the developers in our company and started studying Python. I'm worried about how to move from IT to programming though... Any advice?

One of the guys at my old job taught himself HTML, CSS, SQL and PHP. He developed an internal app that he thought might be useful. It's now essential to their core business and he's their lead programming guy. Learn a language and if you think you can do something similar and show some initiative then it's the best way to move between fields.

 

[jetsetnickradio]

Logic and problem solving skills are key to programming and most IT work in general.

Math is often involved, especially in programming, but you don't necessarily have to be a great mathematician. You can, and often will, just write code to do the math for you

 

[crimzonflame]

Is Web Development and Software Development similar?

 

[prophetvx]

You should consider IT if you want to use tools that already exist and want to become "fluent"at using them. You should become a software developer if you are creative and fucking love math.

I always shake my head when people say you must enjoy math if getting into programming. There are plenty of types of programming that use little to no math. To get a degree in Comp Sci, sure you need to be pretty decent at math, but you can avoid it with ease professionally.

Unless you're getting into software that uses graphics, AI or some sort of scientific application, you can largely avoid it. You don't need it for many enterprise development applications.

 

[The_blonde_and_blue]

You should consider IT if you want to use tools that already exist and want to become "fluent"at using them. You should become a software developer if you are creative and fucking love math.

A beautifully concise answer.

10+ years experience, in service, development, and a bunch of other generic IT roles. It can't be said anymore clear than above. To your questions, most will boil down to "well, it depends on the company". Some companies, even big IT ones don't allow working from home, other embrace it. Some companies let you set your own schedule within reason, but others have a strict policy on when you're allowed to work.

My last role had an insane amount of freedom. I came in when I wanted, took as long of a lunch as I wanted, and worked on what I wanted, they did not allow any working from home though. My current job is much more strict, but they allow a lot of working from home. No job is perfect I suppose.

The one important thing I think you should consider is stress. Development can be incredibly stressful depending on the amount of support you have, and the visibility of the project. Also, when deadlines approach, your hours can get crazy. I imagine this could happen in IT security too, but it's a part of the game in every development position I've ever had.

On the math subject, development is a big field, and a lot of things your average Joe would group under the "development" umbrella that might not really require a crazy amount of math, but honestly to do anything really "cool" with code, you're going to need math, and more than you think. There's a reason computer science and programming degrees have a high drop out rate.

Good luck in whatever you decide to tackle though. Either choice is a solid one IMO. Just do your homework and make sure you know what you're getting into.

There are a lot of roles with 'analyst' in the title that have a pretty wide scope of responsibility, and let you see a lot of new things.

 

[prophetvx]

Is Web Development and Software Development similar?

Yes. With things like Typescript and ES6 javascript is becoming more strongly typed and a powerful language. Frameworks like Angular and React have made it possible to develop extremely complex applications in a sustainable manner.

Node.js is getting more popular and allowing javascript developers further into the realm of full stack development.

It's the direction the field is heading in. Traditional software development will obviously always be there but web development has exploded for obvious reasons. Unfortunately web development is littered with hobbyists who call themselves developers which gives that field a pretty bad name, but as I said before with new technologies and frameworks it's moving to a much more traditional style of development with strong typing, OO design and unit testing.

 

[PeskyToaster]

As a Virtualization guy / IT Mgr I found my biggest regret is not picking up networking knowledge sooner.

Knowing CCNA Routing/Switching and Subnetting would have been nice

Spoiler

SO FUCKING HELPFUL GOD WHY DIDNT ANYONE TELL ME?!

It's probably my biggest blindspot as well though luckily I had one networking class in college so I get some of it. Probably should figure it out because one of my servers was never virtualized and I really need it to be now.

 

[Erudite]

Yes. With things like Typescript and ES6 javascript is becoming more strongly typed and a powerful language. Frameworks like Angular and React have made it possible to develop extremely complex applications in a sustainable manner.

Node.js is getting more popular and allowing javascript developers further into the realm of full stack development.

It's the direction the field is heading in. Traditional software development will obviously always be there but web development has exploded for obvious reasons. Unfortunately web development is littered with hobbyists who call themselves developers which gives that field a pretty bad name, but as I said before with new technologies and frameworks it's moving to a much more traditional style of development with strong typing, OO design and unit testing.

Appreciate the insight prophetvx! That's a bit of a relief for me the hear, as I was recently lucky enough to get hired on as full time staff after my internship at a cancer research center, with a major focus on developing using a PostgreSQL, ExpressJS, AngularJS stack, and was a bit worried this might limit my options for my career going forward.

 

[Aiustis]

On the IT side. It's all about problem solving skills and utilizing what you know and have to do your job and a lot of the tools and information might not be included in your training and what you're required to know.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Just tossing this out as a feeler. Fed up with my current job at 29, thinking of going back to school for Computer Science. Are there any great online programming courses I can try to see if it's right for me? I've always loved working with computers and enjoyed looking at and editing code with games as a kid, but never made the plunge to actually learn coding

Well make damn sure you know what you're getting into first.

Nothing worse than seeing somebody who buckles in for 2-8 years of schooling/training then turns around and realizes they hate it.

I highly recommend getting certs and taking free online courses to put your feelers out.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Unless you're often coming up with your own highly optimized algorithms in a math intensive area of programming like game engine developement, or machine learning, then you wont need much math. Most of the math and algorithms that you'll need to use on a day to day basis are packaged up neatly for us in frameworks, libraries, and native code, with methods like Array.sort. Or Array.includes. The most prevelant CS jobs these days are in web development and there's really not much math to do here, on the front end or backend.

Also, I hated math in school, but it sundenly becomes a lot more interesting when you're using it to solve real world problems. Esspecially in game development.

 

[Vanillalite]

The Math question is highly dependent on the job. Engineering programming is going to require math for sure. If you want to do robotics or do data analysis or work with hardware in general you are going to need math. I wouldn't even hire a programmer if they didn't know what an FFT was lol. But that is my industry where most "programmers" are really just Engineers that taught themselves programming. We did have a CS guy once and he had all the math background from school and was fine, but I wouldn't hire someone who didn't have any of that.

This.

I have a bunch of friends that do web dev, mobile app, or just some general coding for some major corps that don't know or really using much math in there job.

On the flip side dealing something like PLCs in an industrial plant would be like Greek to them both in terms of hardware, software, and the math involved.

People underestimate just how wide of a field both IT and development can be. There are a myriad of jobs for both that have a wide range of different qualifications.

I do find it funny young people always think programmers only need math for AI or gaming stuff though. Lol

 

[prophetvx]

Appreciate the insight prophetvx! That's a bit of a relief for me the hear, as I was recently lucky enough to get hired on as full time staff after my internship at a cancer research center, with a major focus on developing using a PostgreSQL, ExpressJS, AngularJS stack, and was a bit worried this might limit my options for my career going forward.

I would absolutely try and get experience using traditional programming languages. They are the foundations that don't change. The problem with front-end development really is that there is a new hot framework every year or two, often completely changing philosophies. Staying on top of that can be very problematic and if you don't get exposure your experience now could be useless in 5 years time.

Things like React and Angular have a massive amount of weight behind them though and using Typescript means your knowledge is more portable from framework to framework.

I don't work in web development myself but I can't deny how much of a growing industry it is. I certainly wouldn't want to pigeon hole myself there as you're less likely to move into architecture style roles from those sorts of positions but companies invest a fortune in UX now so there is high demand there.

 

[SOLDIER]

This is all fairly true.

BUT the big caveat is depression, isolation, and neurosis/psychosis are HUGE issues in the programming/coding field. It's hard to stay sane when your life is lines of code.

I found for my mental health... organizing infrastructures... planning... managing... interacting (socially).. all necessary.

And when it comes to income/job availability... let's be honest - both are in high demand.

It's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrarri... one is gonna be flashier and own the "top end" but the other is more reliable and damn near just as fast.



As a Virtualization guy / IT Mgr I found my biggest regret is not picking up networking knowledge sooner.

Knowing CCNA Routing/Switching and Subnetting would have been nice

Spoiler

SO FUCKING HELPFUL GOD WHY DIDNT ANYONE TELL ME?!

That’s an honest concern that I have, since I am currently seeking therapy (possibly meds) for my anxiety. Take my current job: it’s an absolute cakewalk with lots of holiday and time off, yet I find myself miserable because of the shitty commute (yesterday it took me an hour 10 minutes to get home) and early mornings. And when I make a mistake, even if it’s super minor, I take it super hard and personal (internally, I always maintain a professional attitude).

So trying to determine which field is more stressful is pretty important. That’s not to say I can’t adjust (again, getting therapy), but I’d rather focus on a career I could potentially get with better based on my own personality.

For what its worth, location and context do matter.

My Help Desk job that i work at in my college pays more than your average system admin or network admin salary where I live (I live in Ontario Canada). But this is mostly because of our union, who fight for higher wages every 5 years and usually win. It allows the IT department (and other support staff in the college) to get paid way higher than industry averages for their respective job titles.

Working for colleges, where I live, is pretty sweet. But your mileage really will vary in the IT industry

I live in Miami, FL. Any specific companies I should shoot for, or am I better off looking elsewhere?

Programming/Software Development is definitely the better life style all around.

Higher pay, more in demand, less outsource potential if you're more than a code monkey, more flexible hours, less helpdesk situations, less stressful situations (No 12 A.M, "OMG the VPN tunnel is down and nobody can VPN in" fire drill)

Its also much harder to get into Programming/Software Development , you need a basic set of knowledge that not a lot of people enjoy and none of it is similar to hobbyist computer interactions. So people who think they want to be a programmer because they like computers usually get a smack in the face in first year CS and change majors.

This is what I worry about. I may be in front of a PC most of the day, but just because I can do basic functions like helping a family member get their printer working or editing a game’s .ini files so that it can work properly doesn’t necessarily mean I’m cut out for coding.

So my next question is: is there a decent resource out there that gives a basic idea of what either job field is like? Like is there a video that says “here’s a typical problem or task you do on this job and here’s the knowledge you need”? Things like that.

Also as someone who likes to be creative and has/will dabble in different fields (writing, drawing, video editing, etc), I was interested in the design aspect of computer careers too.

However, as I stated before, job security and demand are super important. I don’t want to work as a freelancer, I want a set salary with set hours. I also don’t want to get into a field with a lot of demand. I’m starting late and would rather not suffer another ten years or so just for the chance of getting in.

Speaking of which, what would be the quickest and most efficient way to get a job in either field? If possible I would love to get a job now that helps build up the experience/tools to advance into higher tiers of the career. I know some jobs offer the chance to hire you now, earn the required degree/cert within the year. Anything like that is what I really want to shoot for.

I’m tired of my current job, but I’m not going to drop it just to focus my studies. Anything where I can both work and learn (like a paid internship I supppoae) would be ideal.

 

[crimzonflame]

Yes. With things like Typescript and ES6 javascript is becoming more strongly typed and a powerful language. Frameworks like Angular and React have made it possible to develop extremely complex applications in a sustainable manner.

Node.js is getting more popular and allowing javascript developers further into the realm of full stack development.

It's the direction the field is heading in. Traditional software development will obviously always be there but web development has exploded for obvious reasons. Unfortunately web development is littered with hobbyists who call themselves developers which gives that field a pretty bad name, but as I said before with new technologies and frameworks it's moving to a much more traditional style of development with strong typing, OO design and unit testing.

Thanks!

 

[Two Words]

I myself went for both these careers and ended up in IT, and this is what I learned:

1. IT is multi-faceted - a network engineer is not doing the same thing a virtualization engineer is doing - though their paths may cross (and knowing both makes you VERY marketable).

2. IT allows you more job opportunities outside of your specialization (a Java programmer may have a hard time getting a Project Manager position at some random company... I won't - because I have organizational/infrastructure/management experience as an IT Manager).

--

1. Programming allows you to be like "Neo" from the Matrix (in a basement surrounded by green-text screens... though if you're a Linux SysAdmin / Network Admin this can end up the same lol)... you can do really cool stuff. From simple things like building a Python web crawler to big things like a video game.

2. Programming seems to be a bit easier profession to "pick up and go" ... coders are needed all over the world, and while the jobs may suck (12 hr/day codemonkey) - they exist.

____

My final thoughts:

If you want a more open-ended career with more possibilities / choices in what you do and how you do it, go IT.

If you are very organizationally-minded and would eventually enjoy leading people or running an entire branch of a business (the IT, support, tech depts.) .. then go IT.

____

If you are creative and like making stuff - go programming.

If you want the freedom to pack up, move to California or Tokyo, and have your skills be more easily picked up and used - go programming.

--

Side Notes: IT requires a very strong problem-solving mind with an organizational aptitude. // Programming requires a very creative mind with detail-orientated thinking.

--

I'm sure some people will disagree or nit-pick but I've been doing IT as a career and programming for fun since I was 15 and I'm 32 now. So take it how you will.

I’m not understanding why you are painting a dichotomy where IT is problem solving and software engineering is creativity. Software engineering is absolutely all about problem solving.