James Sawyer Ford
Member
I’d ask you to take your own advice. There’s no generational massive leap
Consoles look quite good
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Alan Wake 2 - PlayStation 5 DF Tech Review - Remedy Raises The Bar Yet Again
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
I’d ask you to take your own advice. There’s no generational massive leap
Consoles look quite good
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Why would there be a "generational massive leap,"? It's the same game. There is a big difference but were you expecting PC to have 2028 visuals in 2023 or something?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I only consider near generational leaps to be big
Not higher resolutions and sharper shadows
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Which is meaningless since there is no definition of "near generational" or whatever that means, especially since generational leaps between games aren't even consistent.
The shadows aren't sharper, they're more diffused and don't flicker and fade in and out of existence which is the biggest problem that kills the visual quality on consoles.
Yeah, totally not a big difference.
Last edited:
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Which is meaningless since there is no definition of "near generational" or whatever that means, especially since generational leaps between games aren't even consistent.
The shadows aren't sharper, they're more diffused and don't flicker and fade in and out of existence which is the biggest problem that kills the visual quality on consoles.
Yeah, totally not a big difference.
It’s not, but you do you.
not going to feel like I’m missing out on anything by playing it on a console which looks fantastic
Go ahead and post more cherry picked shots.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
The shimmering on PS5 is horrendous and impossible to ignore.
Once again, Digital Foundry sugarcoats an issue with a hyped game. I know they mentioned it, but they didn't tell us how it has THE worst artifacting/shimmering of any game yet. By the time you get to NYC in the game you won't be able to ignore this. Rain and flashlight make it more noticeable.
Why does there always have to be something that ruins what otherwise would be amazing looking games lately? FSR2 is why I guess
Once again, Digital Foundry sugarcoats an issue with a hyped game. I know they mentioned it, but they didn't tell us how it has THE worst artifacting/shimmering of any game yet. By the time you get to NYC in the game you won't be able to ignore this. Rain and flashlight make it more noticeable.
Why does there always have to be something that ruins what otherwise would be amazing looking games lately? FSR2 is why I guess
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, the difference is totally not obvious.
It's just graphics. As long as you get a complete game that runs alright, you won't be missing out on anything. Graphics are only part of the experience and far from the most important one but pretending that the differences aren't big is just lying.
I didn't pick them. The guy who made the video did. It's often been a point of complaint for people playing on consoles or lower spec PCs (mainly with FSR); the image stability isn't good. Lots of aliasing, flickering, and shimmering due to the very low internal resolution. It happens throughout the game and you can observe it anywhere in motion, especially in places with a lot of vegetation (and given that the early game takes place in a forest, you'll see that a lot).
No one is putting down your precious consoles so you can lower your weapons. The differences are large but it's not like you're not getting a good-looking or decently performing game on consoles. Everyone gets the full experience.
Last edited:
That is the problem here , they like to find flaws. And on the other hand this photo could be art directed and have to dark shadows …lol you need to get out more or something.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
To me it isn’t large. You disagree. That’s all there is to it. Large is relative, if I felt it was large I’d be more compelled to play on PC
daninthemix
Member
FSR2 is indeed awful and I almost think it should be a toggle - choose linear upscaling without FSR2 if you prefer. Yes it would be 800p or whatever, but without the horrible artifacts.
Saying someone in a dire need to justificate his expensive toy
While that's true there's like a million images one could post with a similar look to the game. Are they all artistically framed/altered?
No idea, that is hard to determine from pictures from the internet not? But if you know how light behaves there is a big possibility it is darker underneath the table, like in these pictures . As there isn’t much room for lighting to reach under the table .While that's true there's like a million images one could post with a similar look to the game. Are they all artistically framed/altered?
Last edited:
Balducci30
Member
They very much are underselling the benefit of having a pc to play this game above medium settings and with dlss. The aliasing and shimmering is TERRIBLE on console
lol so alan wake 2 is working like how you just described light working in the path traced mode image that was accused of being too dark. The funny thing is if they used one of the other tables in the other corner of the room they are not as dark underneath because the light is bouncing back acutely after hitting a close by wall directly, similarly to the picture with the 2 guys near the wall.
Lol! There isn't any sun light in the first picture.While that's true there's like a million images one could post with a similar look to the game. Are they all artistically framed/altered?
Here's a similar angle to the one in Alan Wake 2
yet there is in the other 2 though. The one with the light above was specifically for what I was originally replying to.
"uhm yes the light is above table and floor is under the table, therefore is it much more accurate how PITCH FUCKING BLACK it is under the table with RT"
Yes, but to be honest most here are commenting on what they see, but we don’t look with the eyes , we look with the brain, so judgement is always cloudy. Our brain translates that information. But if you worked in photography or you did work with Ray Tracing , you had to do research how lighting works. More academic.
Like I said , people like to point out flaws .. for reasons .. I guess.
I wonder if they can do the post processing in quality mode on consoles after FSR and keep it before fsr in performance mode. Would help with the light glowing on consoles in the quality modes.
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
I've played that section of the game. It's dark underneath the table, but not pitch black. Different tables have different lighting depending on what is close by. It behaves how light behaves.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It's awful
Senua
Member
You're missing out on decent IQ and framerate. The RT stuff isn't groundbreaking but man the IQ on console is bad. Breakup and shimmering up the jacksy. FSR strikes again
Yeh I know, I could actually see the shoes, up turned jean cuff/legs and lighter shade of the wall under that "pitch black" area even in the terrible quality screenshot, in actual game it's even easier to see the details and my other reply above says exactly what you just said about other tables. For the record I was on the side of that's how light works.
it's mentioned in the other DF video, low post processing does the post before reconstruction because it's cheaper and that's why consoles are using it. High does post after reconstruction but has a performance hit, and even on low preset pc doesn't drop post processing to low you have to manually do it which is why pc low preset benchmarks are still heavier than console apparently.
Sw0pDiller
Member
Crazy to compare a pc with hardware costing around 2500 euro VS a 400 euro console.
winjer
Gold Member
It's even worse than that.
It's comparing a 400 euro console from 2020, to a 2500 euro PC from 2023.
Bojji
Member
They completely sacrificed image quality on consoles:
- shit FSR2 with tons of shimmering
- super low res and aliased shadows
- very low res and noisy reflections
I don't get all the praising remedy gets when even with 30fps mode they didn't achieve good IQ on consoles.
You can fix most of those problems on PC, even without RT and you don't need 2500$ PC to do it.
Last edited:
Senua
Member
Because even with those issues the game looks incredible, we're so used to cross gen shite that it's nice to finally get a game pushing forward
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Yeah, it looks alright on consoles. INSANE or mindblown? Nah
Bojji
Member
There are other games that also push tech but with IQ that is even worse than AW2.
But just like someone mentioned before, you have to choose your poison:
- cross gen game like GOWR with great IQ, art and very good performance
- "next gen" game with one or two "next gen" effects (usually GI and/or polygons) but with shit IQ and/or performance
I will choose 1 option most of the time. So far next gen games have IQ barely better than PS3 games in many cases, developers love to sacrifice image quality to achieve their "vision" but it doesn't mean it's the right choice.
For AW2, console version has:
+ GI not possible on last gen
+ polygon counts not possible on last gen (mesh shaders)
- resolution of last gen
- shadow quality of last gen
- reflections quality of last gen
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
Worse than Resident Evil 4 Remake ? People apparently didn't mind but, man was it bad for me, ruined the whole image quality...
-Hair ? Shimmering
-Trees and bushes ? shimmering
-rooftop tiles ? shimmering
-animal fur ? Uber shimmering
So, how bad is it in AW2 ?
Heck, I might as well wait for the PS5 Pro version, I'd hate to have my experience "ruined"
Cheers
Last edited:
Senua
Member
Yea I guess I'm just bored of the up-rezzed PS4 shit. Spiderman 2 was so underwhelming visually it's nice to see some games push forward even with the obvious performance and IQ flaws. Selfishly it's good for PC too as those flaws can be fixed and still have the underlying beautiful tech
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's shimmering galore on ps5.
Nothing to skip the game though
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
It's that bad Rofif eh ?
Is there a video where it shows exactly this so i could take a look ?
Thanks man !
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I don't want to post spoilers but I can post this. Not sure if this is quality or perf mode but I confirm it shimmers like that
1:25 look at the cars bumpers. Specular shimmer
1:40 fence shimmer on the left
GHG
Member
Maybe to the untrained eye.
GHG
Member
Well not only do you get better visuals but you also get much better IQ and most importantly the framerate is often well over double what you can get on consoles.
So all in all, if you've got the hardware it all adds up to a vastly superior experience.
Yes it costs more, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.
GHG
Member
As explained above, the culminative difference is huge.
I've got a few games that I own on both PC and PS5, it's not comparable once everything is taken into account.
In particular, I really struggle to go back to poor IQ now.
Bojji
Member
Are you shitting me? Differences are very obvious.
owandeseis
Member
No need to go to 2000$ PC's, the diff from the PS5 version and a 700$ PC one with a 3060 is big already if you dont have to deal with that terrible shimmering and FSR's artifacts/low IQ.
If you don't notice about the amount of artifacts, shimmering and that even on the quality mode, the game's blurry on consoles, well then i have good news for you, not gonna lie, you'd even be fine with just a XSS.
If you don't notice about the amount of artifacts, shimmering and that even on the quality mode, the game's blurry on consoles, well then i have good news for you, not gonna lie, you'd even be fine with just a XSS.
daninthemix
Member
Indeed, it is by far and away the most superior AA method hands down.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yet you will find the very same people liking your posts or arguing about the top-tier PC not being significantly better than the console version argue for 10 pages in PS5 vs Xbox threads over a 5% difference in resolution or a single dropped frames. Those eagle-eyed posters will catch a resolution drop that lasts 0.5 seconds in a DF video but suddenly when it comes to PC, they turn into Stevie Wonder. You can no longer spot the difference between 960p and 4K, ray tracing makes no difference, and the massive shimmering and flickering that result in missing shadows and details isn't perceptible. Never mind the fact that you don't actually need a 2500 euros PC for a much more stable image but you already knew this.
dotnotbot
Member
While that's true there's like a million images one could post with a similar look to the game. Are they all artistically framed/altered?
Comparing to these photos is pointless, they have extremely narrow dynamic range compared to our human vision. So in reality we are able to see what's under the table much clearer than recorded even by best cameras for HDR movie displayed on a best TV available.
In theory, Alan Wake II as a HDR capable game should do a better job than the photos above so it depends how it looks like on a HDR display. But even on a best HDR screen possible the choice has to be made between crushing details in shadows and overexposing bright elements and I agree with rofif that it's too often the former approach as devs/mastering people tend to go for more contrasty look with popping colors, which is far from what reality looks like.
Last edited:
winjer
Gold Member
But that comes back to what we said yesterday about PCMR fanboys. How for them everything is about the spiel of the superiority of the PC gaming.
Reality is that consoles have to make compromises to fit inside a set monetary budget. And a certain size. And a certain power envelope.
Comparing settings between platforms is interesting. But it's very important to understand the caveats for each platform.
And yes, you are right that no one needs a 2500 euro PC. One of the advantages of PCs is that each person can customize a machine to fit their needs, budget, size, look, etc.
We can have 500 euros PCs, or cheaper. And 5000 euros PCs, or more expensive.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Not exactly how this was started. It started because some were saying the differences aren't big. They are big but it doesn't mean the console version is suddenly shit. Then big became a generational difference, which doesn't even happen even across generations anymore. Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2 is most certainly not a generational improvement. This simply doesn't happen anymore.
Back on topic. Is it me or is there a problem with the path traced render?
Top is PT, second is RT, and bottom is raster. The shadows of the fence should be more diffused because the light source is quite far from it but it seems way too diffused for how strong the light still is in a small room. I can see them on the wooden plank near the fence but they almost disappear way too early.
I think I may also have spotted that in other areas where the PT shadows are too subtle.
winjer
Gold Member
Back on topic. Is it me or is there a problem with the path traced render?
Top is PT, second is RT, and bottom is raster. The shadows of the fence should be more diffused because the light source is quite far from it but it seems way too diffused for how strong the light still is in a small room. I can see them on the wooden plank near the fence but they almost disappear way too early.
I think I may also have spotted that in other areas where the PT shadows are too subtle.
Indeed. There seems to be some issue with path tracing.
The RT, is the one that looks better and more accurate.